Life is just a big version of The Sims.

Cool. I know lots of people with acne, doesn't mean acne won't eventually cause their death.

Oh, acne causes death now?

Oh life causes death now?

Oh life causes death now?

In my theory, yes; unless aging is a disease. I prefer to think of life as a disease being much better, especially since you start out as a parasite.

Quote from: GarmGarf on December 25, 2007, 01:21:33 AM

That what does the application of death do to the disease of life?

Er...I don't get your question. Many diseases can cause death if left untreated, which is in most cases, an undesirable occurrence. To alleviate symptoms and prevent death, cures are remedied for diseases. Life, which ends in death, has no cure.

Wopes! My bad. the "That" in my question is a typo of "Then".

Define control over yourself. You decide what you will do. The fact that what you will do can be predicted was your argument for lack of free will. I told you it's unpredictable and you say it's still not a decision.

Think about what you are trying to say then have fun.

So according to you, "free will" is the result of when a couple of thousand of dice are thrown?

Given enough figures, you could probably predict the future.

Maybe that's what he's saying.

Bingo

If the disease is life then perhaps it can be treated by a vaccination? Just a small dose of life, you know, nothing fatal, just enough for antibodies to adapt

So according to you, "free will" is the result of when a couple of thousand of dice are thrown?

No it is when a couple thousand electrons go through your brain picking out which path is most used by how easily they travel down it and this causing biochemical reactions that decide what you will do.

That is free will.

No it is when a couple thousand electrons go through your brain picking out which path is most used by how easily they travel down it and this causing biochemical reactions that decide what you will do.

That is free will.

So basicaly, Humans have as much control over themselves as they have control over which path a leaf will take flowing down a system of streams/rivers.

No. We have about as much choice in life as the chromosomes ripped from our parents cells, where we are born, who we are raised by and every experience in our life.


I know the grammar went to shit but read hard and you'll get it.

Quote from: Saint Raist on December 28, 2007, 10:47:29 AM

No it is when a couple thousand electrons go through your brain picking out which path is most used by how easily they travel down it and this causing biochemical reactions that decide what you will do.

That is free will.

So basicaly, Humans have as much control over themselves as they have control over which path a leaf will take flowing down a system of streams/rivers.

Shut up, you wishy washy penguinbag. Ultimately you die, but it's what you do prior to that termination that seperates you from such uncontrollably brain drooling metaphors such as a leaf. You have free will (if you can actually make scenario splitting descisions for yourself that is) to a certain extent (example: to walk infront of a bus or not to), make the most of it or die, thanks.

If the disease is life then perhaps it can be treated by a vaccination? Just a small dose of life, you know, nothing fatal, just enough for antibodies to adapt

That might work to prevent life (except for those unfortunate few who catch a nasty case of life from the vaccination itself), but it wouldn't be a cure.

No. We have about as much choice in life as the chromosomes ripped from our parents cells, where we are born, who we are raised by and every experience in our life.


I know the grammar went to shit but read hard and you'll get it.

And all the things you listed that constitute one's "free will" was not controlled or chosen by them. Therefore, the "free will" humans have is similar to the "free will" computer programs have. Am I correct?

Shut up, you wishy washy penguinbag. Ultimately you die, but it's what you do prior to that termination that seperates you from such uncontrollably brain drooling metaphors such as a leaf. You have free will (if you can actually make scenario splitting descisions for yourself that is) to a certain extent (example: to walk infront of a bus or not to), make the most of it or die, thanks.

Where is your words of anger coming from? What have I done to offend you? I believe your reaction was unauthorized.

Anyway, getting to your example, the choice one makes when in the presence of a moving bus: to walk in front of it or not to, is decided by factors of which the person had no control of. For example, normally, I would presume you chose not to walk in front of a bus, correct? Well, what happens if one day, one of your parents/guardians rapes you, and you become very stressed and confused to the point where you become suicidal. That particular day, you chose to walk in front of the next moving bus, which causes your death. The experience you had earlier in that day was of no control of yours, yet the choice you made was different. Also note, that the factors which constitutes you on a normal day that determine that you won't commit suicide were developed by experiences you had no control over.

Quote from: Saint Raist on December 28, 2007, 04:39:40 PM

No. We have about as much choice in life as the chromosomes ripped from our parents cells, where we are born, who we are raised by and every experience in our life.


I know the grammar went to shit but read hard and you'll get it.

And all the things you listed that constitute one's "free will" was not controlled or chosen by them. Therefore, the "free will" humans have is similar to the "free will" computer programs have. Am I correct?

No I meant these are the things that decide what we are. Yes we do not choose these, but what would we use to decide who we are? I say our genes are us. And they guide the rest of the building of the brain. So yes WE have free will. If now wtf do you think we are?

Fucking spiritualists.

Quote from: Saint Raist on December 28, 2007, 04:39:40 PM

No. We have about as much choice in life as the chromosomes ripped from our parents cells, where we are born, who we are raised by and every experience in our life.


I know the grammar went to shit but read hard and you'll get it.

And all the things you listed that constitute one's "free will" was not controlled or chosen by them. Therefore, the "free will" humans have is similar to the "free will" computer programs have. Am I correct?

Quote from: Viscount Dead Kangaroo on December 28, 2007, 04:50:23 PM

Shut up, you wishy washy penguinbag. Ultimately you die, but it's what you do prior to that termination that seperates you from such uncontrollably brain drooling metaphors such as a leaf. You have free will (if you can actually make scenario splitting descisions for yourself that is) to a certain extent (example: to walk infront of a bus or not to), make the most of it or die, thanks.

Where is your words of anger coming from? What have I done to offend you? I believe your reaction was unauthorized.

You offended me by sounding like Bullhorn, don't take too much offense or anything I say seriously as I might be a bit tired and drunk.

P.S. I do not seek authorization to the way I act/react 

No I meant these are the things that decide what we are. Yes we do not choose these, but what would we use to decide who we are? I say our genes are us. And they guide the rest of the building of the brain. So yes WE have free will. If now wtf do you think we are?

Fucking spiritualists.

The problem there is that a human does not chose its genes. So, are humans' "free wills" any different from a computer program's?

You offended me by sounding like Bullhorn, don't take too much offense or anything I say seriously as I might be a bit tired and drunk.

Oh, thats cool then 

I understand.

The problem there is that a human does not chose its genes. So, are humans' "free wills" any different from a computer program's?

You're confusing software with hardware.
Our genes (software) program our stem cells (hardware) and yes we do have a variation to choose from depending on actions we take. We can inadvertently muck up this biological process by radiation, mutalation, diet and many other things.

You're confusing software with hardware.
Our genes (software) program our stem cells (hardware) and yes we do have a variation to choose from depending on actions we take. We can inadvertently muck up this biological process by radiation, mutalation, diet and many other things.

Well my point is that a human does not chose (the state of/or) any of the components that constituted itself initially.

Quote from: Viscount Dead Kangaroo on December 28, 2007, 09:15:57 PM

You're confusing software with hardware.
Our genes (software) program our stem cells (hardware) and yes we do have a variation to choose from depending on actions we take. We can inadvertently muck up this biological process by radiation, mutalation, diet and many other things.

Well my point is that a human does not chose (the state of/or) any of the components that constituted itself initially.

To a point, the host dictates the development then once birth is given it dictates what it does and does not like to eat(crying for pissoff I don't like that and grabby arms for woo gimme I like that), changing it's diet to what it prefers, changing it's self slightly via choice of diet causing a physical change via free will. This is evidential in twins.

To a point, the host dictates the development then once birth is given it dictates what it does and does not like to eat(crying for pissoff I don't like that and grabby arms for woo gimme I like that), changing it's diet to what it prefers, changing it's self slightly via choice of diet causing a physical change via free will. This is evidential in twins.

With twins, it's the two seconds holding in the arms more than the other, the extra brussel sprout put on one of their plates, and the fact that the twins both occupy their own space (different line of sights and territories) that make the difference during their individual developments. The universe does not treat the two twins the same, and therefore the twins will not turn out to be the same.

Quote from: Viscount Dead Kangaroo on December 28, 2007, 09:15:57 PM

You're confusing software with hardware.
Our genes (software) program our stem cells (hardware) and yes we do have a variation to choose from depending on actions we take. We can inadvertently muck up this biological process by radiation, mutalation, diet and many other things.

Well my point is that a human does not chose (the state of/or) any of the components that constituted itself initially.

well then you're basically eliminating any chance of free will. You are claiming the end product is us, but demanding that the unfinished product makes decisions which would invariably not be us.

Your definition of free will is the flaw in this.

well then you're basically eliminating any chance of free will. You are claiming the end product is us, but demanding that the unfinished product makes decisions which would invariably not be us.

Your definition of free will is the flaw in this.

The problem with your post there is that I believe "free will" to be non existent.

Exactly. So no matter what i give to you, you will say it's not free will. Our definitions of free will our different. yours are the 80's era cheap movie definition.

I would go with someone else's assertion that ageing is a disease, and life itself is not.

Exactly. So no matter what i give to you, you will say it's not free will. Our definitions of free will our different. yours are the 80's era cheap movie definition.

Whatever, but your definition gives false hope. I think we believe the same thing, we are just debating over terminology here. However, I could be mistaken.

I don't wish to debate over terminology, I wish to clarify understanding.

Whatever, but your definition gives false hope.

[/episode IV]

Quote from: Saint Raist on December 28, 2007, 10:09:22 PM

Exactly. So no matter what i give to you, you will say it's not free will. Our definitions of free will our different. yours are the 80's era cheap movie definition.

Whatever, but your definition gives false hope.

And now we get to the glass half full argument.

You are abusing the definition of free will. Quit trying to be cool.

And now we get to the glass half full argument.

You are abusing the definition of free will. Quit trying to be cool.

Please humor me and tell me if it correct that your definition of free will is:

No it is when a couple thousand electrons go through your brain picking out which path is most used by how easily they travel down it and this causing biochemical reactions that decide what you will do.

That is free will.

quoting out of context. nice.

I was rephrasing your sentence to make it more accurate. That is not my exact definition no. I was explaining how a brain could be random.

quoting out of context. nice.

I was rephrasing your sentence to make it more accurate. That is not my exact definition no. I was explaining how a brain could be random.

Excuse me, but I am not attempting to "win any games" here. I wish to understand what you believe free will is. If you do not wish to reveal that information to me, I'm ok with that, just tell me that it is none of my business. If you do wish to tell me what you believe, then please do it now instead of treating me like some of the other posters on this forum (aka the posters that use the phrases/expressions: "noobs"; "I win"; "you lose"; " "), please.

I respect you for that. Then next time i log on i will. Not trying to blow you off, just a little too drunk right now. Sorry.

Oh, good to hear! 

Hey, I understand. Just remember: you can't get a hangover if you don't stop being drunk!