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Before the Big Bang...

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divito the truthist

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Before the Big Bang...
« on: August 03, 2007, 02:31:26 PM »
Going off base from the uselessness of that other thread:

You want to know what was before the Big Bang? Nothingness. No matter, no time, nothing.

Then if we should take the tradition of Christianity into account, Lucifer rebelled against God and was cast out from Heaven. At the casting point, the Big Bang was initiated. Lucifer created the illusion of time, the "veil of time", and tried to make people forget the imminence of God.

And so we stand, ever so dividing from the love of God, falling into Satan's illusion and plan.

Anyways, here is the scene from the movie Waking Life that I took some of the idea from:



The entire movie is actually pretty good, and there are a lot of cool ideas. The layered/animated aspect to the image makes your eyes and brain do a lot more work, so you'll no doubt be tired after watching part of it. I recommend for people to watch it for those who have not.
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Ubuntu

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2007, 02:36:20 PM »
Asking "What came before the Big Bang?" may as meaningless as asking "What lies North of the North Pole?"

If Lucifer created time, then God owes him all his followers. Without time, without death, who would want (or need) faith?
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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2007, 02:56:37 PM »
Linear time is required for us to progress.
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narcberry

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2007, 03:08:41 PM »
Most physicists agree that the big bang was not a single event, but implies a series or a big bang cycle.

Option A:
1: Matter collects
2: Matter becomes to massy and explodes
3: Universe grows
4: Universe slows then begins to collapse in on itself
5: Goto 1

Option B (continued from option A at step 3):
4: The univserse gets colder
5: Matter slowly decays into lead
6: We are left with a lifeless universe, devoid of energy and consisting entirely of fine lead distributed over a tremendous distance.

Option C (continues from option B at step 5):
6: Our universe, at different areas, collide with other expanding universes
7: Our reference changes to one of these collisions
8: The matter begins to collapse in on itself
9: Go to 1


Most scientists believe option A to be the correct model for our universe, considering the amount of time that has passed before our existance (infinite) and the fact that we exist. Option C is rarely considered, but is the model I beleive in.
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Ubuntu

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2007, 04:00:07 PM »
Quote from: narcberry on August 03, 2007, 03:08:41 PM
Most physicists agree that the big bang was not a single event, but implies a series or a big bang cycle.

Narcberry, how dishonest! They don't agree at on that at all!
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2007, 04:01:17 PM »
Narcberry, dishonest??  :o

What is the world coming to?
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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divito the truthist

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 04:02:57 PM »
I wasn't saying that this is what I believe, or that discussion of what was before the Big Bang was meaningful. I just threw together the idea after going through that other thread and it gave me the idea to re-watch Waking Life.

Then I made the post.
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Midnight

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2007, 04:17:27 PM »
Quote from: divito on August 03, 2007, 02:31:26 PM
Going off base from the uselessness of that other thread:

You want to know what was before the Big Bang? Nothingness. No matter, no time, nothing.

Then if we should take the tradition of Christianity into account, Lucifer rebelled against God and was cast out from Heaven. At the casting point, the Big Bang was initiated. Lucifer created the illusion of time, the "veil of time", and tried to make people forget the imminence of God.

And so we stand, ever so dividing from the love of God, falling into Satan's illusion and plan.

Anyways, here is the scene from the movie Waking Life that I took some of the idea from:



The entire movie is actually pretty good, and there are a lot of cool ideas. The layered/animated aspect to the image makes your eyes and brain do a lot more work, so you'll no doubt be tired after watching part of it. I recommend for people to watch it for those who have not.

That leans dangerously close to saying Lucifer gave form and function to the former nothingness. Interesting. As usual, you give me pause to stop and think. Nice.  ;)
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Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2010, 07:48:56 PM
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2007, 04:29:34 PM »
To be fair, I have heard of the firt two theories. The last is interesting, but I believe that every alternate universe (all infinity) come from the same point of origin.
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Midnight

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2007, 04:32:52 PM »
Narcberry's Anus.
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Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2010, 07:48:56 PM
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.
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Skeptical ATM

Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2007, 04:33:36 PM »
I should point out that option B is stupid as well.
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wgzero

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2007, 09:28:02 PM »
Scientifically speaking, I don't think any of them are truly viable, but then again I rarely take anything narc says seriously. The oscillating universe theory is impossible (big bang, big crunch, big bang, big crunch, etc), or at least the oscillation has come to an end in our universe, as ever since 7.5 billion years after the big bang (as I have repeatedly stated), the universe's expansion has been accelerating (and the rate of acceleration has actually been increasing with positive jerk). This makes it impossible for the universe to ever collapse into a big crunch. Also bear in mind that most advocates of the oscillating universe theory fail to explain what causes the big bang, after the universe recollapses, with the possible exception of string theorists.

There is another, rather interesting version of oscillating theory which came up recently. It is perfectly viable, to an extent, as it does not involve the universe ever recollapsing. But i'll save it for another post, shall i?
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Ubuntu

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2007, 10:17:43 PM »
Quote from: wgzero on August 03, 2007, 09:28:02 PM
But i'll save it for another post, shall i?

Please, post it here.
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wgzero

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2007, 11:13:30 PM »
As you wish.

It is actually just the jump from the Big Rip scenario to the Oscillating Universe scheme. First of all, we need to get a look at the present expectations of the universe. At the moment, the energy density of dark energy is actually increasing without limit over time. Such dark energy is called phantom energy and is unlike any known kind of energy (except of energy of virtual particles). This means that the expansion rate of the universe will increase without limit. Gravitationally bound systems, such as clusters of galaxies, galaxies, and ultimately the solar system will be torn apart. Eventually the expansion will be so rapid as to overcome the electromagnetic forces holding molecules and atoms together. Finally even atomic nuclei will be torn apart and the universe as we know it will end in an unusual kind of gravitational singularity. In other words, the universe will expand so much that the EM force holding things together will fall to this expansion, making things literally fall apart, as the temperature of the universe approaches absolute zero and its entropy sky-rockets towards infinity. Enter the big rip theory.

According to the big rip theory, the expansion rate of the universe would become so great that space-time itself would be torn apart. Exactly what could possibly happen when space-time tears is unclear, but speculation of this theory is that all matter and energy in the universe would funnel out onto another universal brane and into one point, thus completing its cycle and setting in motion a new big bang.

EDIT: For a better idea of just how far in the future a big rip event would have to be, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_timeline_of_the_Stelliferous_Era for modern and (very) post-modern times, and then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe#The_Degenerate_Age_-_from_1014_to_1040_years and the section "Ultimate Fate" below it for what would happen in the far(-thest) flung future.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 11:32:16 PM by wgzero »
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I'm thinking about signing my first name as lexluther instead of alex...
Quote from: Midnight on July 10, 2007, 03:20:19 PM


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wgzero

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2007, 11:20:18 PM »
This reminds me of one of my favorite doomsday theories: the False Vacuum theory. It says that the universe might be in a false vacuum (a symmetry exists which is unbroken), and that as the universal density and average temperature decrease, the universe might suddenly tunnel into a lower energy state, breaking the remaining symmetry. This would completely destabilize the foundations of matter, and nearly all structures in the universe would be instantly destroyed without any forewarning.

Also, I did read the options narc listed. With the partial exception of one, I've never heard of any of them. Decay to lead, are you high!? How on earth could atoms with lower atomic number decay upwards? And option C would create a near endless list of complications.
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I'm thinking about signing my first name as lexluther instead of alex...
Quote from: Midnight on July 10, 2007, 03:20:19 PM


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Raist

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2007, 11:42:01 PM »
Quote from: divito on August 03, 2007, 02:31:26 PM
Going off base from the uselessness of that other thread:

You want to know what was before the Big Bang? Nothingness. No matter, no time, nothing.

Then if we should take the tradition of Christianity into account, Lucifer rebelled against God and was cast out from Heaven. At the casting point, the Big Bang was initiated. Lucifer created the illusion of time, the "veil of time", and tried to make people forget the imminence of God.

And so we stand, ever so dividing from the love of God, falling into Satan's illusion and plan.

Anyways, here is the scene from the movie Waking Life that I took some of the idea from:



The entire movie is actually pretty good, and there are a lot of cool ideas. The layered/animated aspect to the image makes your eyes and brain do a lot more work, so you'll no doubt be tired after watching part of it. I recommend for people to watch it for those who have not.

Actually not true. There was a shitload of stuff. Just not in 3 dimensions. Or in any way we can comprehend.
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Midnight

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2007, 01:18:31 PM »
Thus rendering any further speculation meaningless.
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Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2010, 07:48:56 PM
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.
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Raist

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2007, 01:21:41 PM »
yeah. are brains suck once we get out of our comfort zones. (3 spacial dimensions, 1 time dimension, relatively small scales.)
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divito the truthist

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2007, 01:41:14 PM »
Quote from: Raist on August 11, 2007, 11:42:01 PM
Actually not true. There was a shitload of stuff. Just not in 3 dimensions. Or in any way we can comprehend.

What is this referring to?
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Raist

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2007, 01:43:09 PM »
Quote
You want to know what was before the Big Bang? Nothingness. No matter, no time, nothing.

that would be what i was replying to.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2007, 01:45:27 PM »
Quote from: Raist on August 12, 2007, 01:43:09 PM
that would be what i was replying to.

Roger.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2007, 06:32:32 PM »
Quote from: divito on August 03, 2007, 02:31:26 PM
You want to know what was before the Big Bang? Nothingness. No matter, no time, nothing.
Except for a singularity: All mass compressed into an infinitely small point.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2007, 06:55:50 AM »
Quote from: Trekky0623 on August 12, 2007, 06:32:32 PM
Except for a singularity: All mass compressed into an infinitely small point.

Nah, there was nothing. Then god shit out our ball of matter from his dimension...kind of like explosive diarrhea, hence the Big Bang.
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narcberry

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2007, 09:12:21 AM »
Quote from: Trekky0623 on August 12, 2007, 06:32:32 PM
Quote from: divito on August 03, 2007, 02:31:26 PM
You want to know what was before the Big Bang? Nothingness. No matter, no time, nothing.
Except for a singularity: All mass compressed into an infinitely small point.

Why do people only consider our singularity, our big bang, and our expanding universe? How could a literally infinite universe not contain anything else? This seems highly improbable.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2007, 09:34:55 AM »
Explain.
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narcberry

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2007, 09:38:26 AM »
Look at our known universe. If you consider the probability of matter in the universe we have explored, how can you ignore the possibility that matter exists beyond our "big bang sytem?"

Let's say that the probability of encountering matter outside our bbs is 0.0001% for every cubic lightyear. If accurate, that means there is matter outside our bbs. This is true, no matter what the probability/space unless you can prove a 0%, something that has yet to be done but is still assumed. It's sillyness.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2007, 09:54:38 AM »
But the BBS is the Universe.  There's nothing outside the Universe except other Universes.
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narcberry

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2007, 09:57:04 AM »
Quote from: Trekky0623 on August 13, 2007, 09:54:38 AM
But the BBS is the Universe.  There's nothing outside the Universe except other Universes.

Well let's not get too caught in semantics.
Universe(1): the matter that originated in our big bang
Universe(2): everything

I've used both. Sorry about any confusion. I invented bbs to mean (1), but the true universe must contain other matter that has never been a part of our bbs.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2007, 09:58:51 AM »
OK.  But to avoid confusion, is it accurate to call Universe(2) the Multiverse?
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narcberry

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Re: Before the Big Bang...
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2007, 10:12:01 AM »
Multiverse traditionally means the collection of universes across dimensions and such. Something like the, now disproven, Hawking paradox and information loss in black holes to alternate universes.

The universe is everything, which scientists falsely assume to be all contained within our bbs. This is where I am disagreeing and this is where the terms are become confusing. We know a bbs (whethere there are 1 or infinite) can only contain a finite amount of matter. This means that to say the universe is only our bbs, is to say the universe only has a finite amount of matter.
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