Bedford Canal Experiment

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_MarquisDeSade

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Bedford Canal Experiment
« on: March 07, 2007, 07:55:55 AM »
I just got done reading about the Bedford canal experiment. Can any REer explain why water is always flat, if it is? Or has anyone actually proven that water is not always flat?
ALso, when I was reading Flat Earth News, it mentioned that there would be a bulge in the water ahead of you if you were looking out into the ocean. Why would this happen?
Has anyone ever measured curvature in the water?

I was reading that underground mountain ranges cause the water to be pulled down slightly, causing a depression in the water there. But, upon further thinking, this person must be part of the conspiacy, as gravity doesn't exist. I have also read, in Discover magazine, that water isn't always flat, and can differ in places by up to 300 ft. Sayin'

Sorry if this has been brought up before. I am using a WebTV currently and this does not allow me to use the search function.
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?"

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_MarquisDeSade

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2007, 08:37:33 AM »
Anyone?
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?"

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2007, 08:40:59 AM »
Is water always flat? 

Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 08:42:57 AM »
Consult Earth: Not a globe

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_MarquisDeSade

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2007, 08:44:01 AM »
Is water always flat? 

If you read about the experiment, apparently it is. I don't know. It is in Earth: Not a Globe.
Sayin' :o
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?"

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets

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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 08:45:30 AM »
Those experiments are faked. He doesn't even know what the supposed curvature of the Earth should be.

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_MarquisDeSade

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 08:48:29 AM »
Those experiments are faked. He doesn't even know what the supposed curvature of the Earth should be.
Is there a thread on this already?
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?"

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2007, 08:49:19 AM »
Is water always flat? 

If you read about the experiment, apparently it is. I don't know. It is in Earth: Not a Globe.
Sayin' :o

Do you mean even a single cup of water should have visible curvature on a RE?

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_MarquisDeSade

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2007, 09:40:21 AM »
Frankly I have no idea. I am just stating what the article says. I want a FEer to comment on this.
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?"

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets

Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2007, 09:48:40 AM »
I've said it already, read Earth: Not a globe

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Ambassadork

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2007, 11:55:07 AM »
I've said it already, read Earth: Not a globe
Hello?! McFly! Where the fsck do you think he read about the experiment? Seriously, do you even think before you click Reply?

Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2007, 11:59:35 AM »
Well then why is he talking rubbish about it, everything in there is correct, now dont get touchie with me or ill get tom bishop to kick your arse you ungrateful bitch

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_MarquisDeSade

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2007, 12:02:10 PM »
And of course nobody answers the original questions....
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?"

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets

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MooBs

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2007, 12:51:45 PM »
I've said it already, read Earth: Not a globe

Read War and Peace, thanks.
Quote
In FE Literature there are three celestial bodies that inhabit the sky. The Sun. The Moon. And the Shadow Object.
Quote
You have performed an illegal operation. Tom Bishop will now shut down, you will lose all unsaved arguments.

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skeptical scientist

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2007, 02:06:52 PM »
If you want the real answer, consider this:

The whole point of science is that results are duplicable. The experiment described in Earth: Not a Globe is 125 years old. Since then, not one person has gotten the same results as Rowbotham. From this we can conclude that his results are due to either incompetence, unintentionally biasing the results due to his personal beliefs, or intentionally falsifying them in order to win converts. The least likely explanation is that his results were, in fact, accurate. Water is not flat, as can be determined by anyone watching a ship sail over the horizon (if water were flat and light bent, people would observe the same things, but again Rowbotham's observations would be contrary to experience). In fact, Rowbotham's experimental results have not only gone unduplicated, they have been repeatedly falsified.
-David
E pur si muove!

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Tom Bishop

Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2007, 02:13:35 PM »
Quote
In fact, Rowbotham's experimental results have not only gone unduplicated, they have been repeatedly falsified.

If Robotham's experiments could be falsified over and over throughout the years, why couldn't Round Earth experiments be falsified over and over throughout the years too?

How do we know which measurements are accurate, and which measurements are falsified?

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2007, 02:17:04 PM »
Quote
In fact, Rowbotham's experimental results have not only gone unduplicated, they have been repeatedly falsified.

If Robotham's experiments could be falsified over and over throughout the years, why couldn't Round Earth experiments be falsified over and over throughout the years too?

How do we know which measurements are accurate, and which measurements are falsified?

Common sense.

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Tom Bishop

Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2007, 02:31:21 PM »
Quote
Common sense.

The existence of God is common sense to a priest. Not so much for an atheist.

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MooBs

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2007, 02:32:31 PM »
Quote
Common sense.

The existence of God is common sense to a priest. Not so much for an atheist.

Thus God exists.
Quote
In FE Literature there are three celestial bodies that inhabit the sky. The Sun. The Moon. And the Shadow Object.
Quote
You have performed an illegal operation. Tom Bishop will now shut down, you will lose all unsaved arguments.

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2007, 02:46:55 PM »
Quote
Common sense.

The existence of God is common sense to a priest. Not so much for an atheist.
That is bias, my views are unbias as far as the earth being round, flat or spherical as I believe them to all be wrong.

So... you own the same bais of that of a priest, holding ignorance and denial to anything that tests your beliefs.

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Daniel

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2007, 03:33:32 PM »
In light of all the "read Earth: Not A Globe" posts, I thought it might be worthwhile to post a link to the complete book online: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/index.htm

It even includes illustrations.  Another excellent piece of work by sacred-texts.com..

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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2007, 03:49:33 PM »
It's been linked to a million times. There's about as much science in that book as an episode of Pokemon. It's full of circular arguments and out right lies. Every good dictionary should have a picture of that book next to the word Fallacy.

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Ambassadork

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2007, 05:40:09 PM »
Quote
In fact, Rowbotham's experimental results have not only gone unduplicated, they have been repeatedly falsified.

If Robotham's experiments could be falsified over and over throughout the years, why couldn't Round Earth experiments be falsified over and over throughout the years too?

How do we know which measurements are accurate, and which measurements are falsified?

"Round Earth" experiments can be duplicated... FFS ::)

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Rudd Master 3000

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2007, 03:55:31 AM »
As skeptical scientist pointed out the results of the experiment failed when unbaised people attended the experiments.

If you are planning on reading through the experiments I will save you some time.

There are basically four types of explanations he uses to say the earth isn't round. I say explanations because sometimes (due to his rambling style of writing) the "experiments" contain a couple of explanations that aren't connected to the "experiment". You will also note that his "experiments" are mostly vague and sometimes don't actually really say anything (e.g. EXP 10, it's really just an introduction to EXP 11).

1. A "lack" of obstructed vision.
This is basically denying that ships disapear over the horizon. From what I've seen his maths is correct but the results have been falsified. Conducting similar experiments yourself should demonstrate this.


2. A "lack" of curvature to the horizon.
This is basically denying that the horizon curves, saying that because we can't see it with our eye when we are close to sea-level it doesn't exist.


3. A "lack" of a dip to the horizon.
These are probably the funniest experiments because the results confirm what you would expect on a round earth and Rowbotham then goes on to suggest that a naked eye is more accurate than the equipment he used. He's basically saying that because (when viewed without equipment) the horizon appears at eye level it must mean it hasn't descended at all.


4. Altitude over distance.
These are also close to being the funniest. With these Rowbotham basically takes two points a fair distance apart (e.g. London & Liverpool) and says that because they're at the same altitude that they must be level with each other. He then creates an imaginary line that goes through the earth and shows how much higher a point in between would be "if" the earth was round. The funny thing is he's quite accurate, if you drilled a tunnel between the two points the point referred to in between would be that much higher than the tunnel.




Of course my favourite "experiment" is this one...

EXPERIMENT 3.
A good theodolite was placed on the northern bank of the canal, midway between Welney Bridge and the Old Bedford Bridge, which are fully six miles apart, as shown in diagram, fig. 7. The line of sight from the "levelled" theodolite fell


FIG. 7.

upon the points B, B, at an altitude, making allowance for refraction, equal to that of the observer at T. Now the points B, B, being three miles from T, would have been the square of three, or nine times 8 inches, or 6 feet below the line of sight, C, T, C, as seen in the following diagram, fig. 8.


FIG. 8.



I highlighted the part where he tampers with his results. Depending on how high the theodolite was depends on how high up the bridge it would land. The "6 feet below the line of sight" refers to how much lower the ground is at 3 miles, so if the bridges were taller than 6 feet it is likely that they were visible at 3 miles - and that's assuming you were on the ground, if you aren't a worm yourself they wouldn't even need to be 6 feet tall.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 05:18:31 AM by Ned Kelly »

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astronomy101

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2007, 12:41:08 PM »
As skeptical scientist pointed out the results of the experiment failed when unbaised people attended the experiments.

If you are planning on reading through the experiments I will save you some time.

There are basically four types of explanations he uses to say the earth isn't round. I say explanations because sometimes (due to his rambling style of writing) the "experiments" contain a couple of explanations that aren't connected to the "experiment". You will also note that his "experiments" are mostly vague and sometimes don't actually really say anything (e.g. EXP 10, it's really just an introduction to EXP 11).

1. A "lack" of obstructed vision.
This is basically denying that ships disapear over the horizon. From what I've seen his maths is correct but the results have been falsified. Conducting similar experiments yourself should demonstrate this.


2. A "lack" of curvature to the horizon.
This is basically denying that the horizon curves, saying that because we can't see it with our eye when we are close to sea-level it doesn't exist.


3. A "lack" of a dip to the horizon.
These are probably the funniest experiments because the results confirm what you would expect on a round earth and Rowbotham then goes on to suggest that a naked eye is more accurate than the equipment he used. He's basically saying that because (when viewed without equipment) the horizon appears at eye level it must mean it hasn't descended at all.


4. Altitude over distance.
These are also close to being the funniest. With these Rowbotham basically takes two points a fair distance apart (e.g. London & Liverpool) and says that because they're at the same altitude that they must be level with each other. He then creates an imaginary line that goes through the earth and shows how much higher a point in between would be "if" the earth was round. The funny thing is he's quite accurate, if you drilled a tunnel between the two points the point referred to in between would be that much higher than the tunnel.




Of course my favourite "experiment" is this one...

EXPERIMENT 3.
A good theodolite was placed on the northern bank of the canal, midway between Welney Bridge and the Old Bedford Bridge, which are fully six miles apart, as shown in diagram, fig. 7. The line of sight from the "levelled" theodolite fell


FIG. 7.

upon the points B, B, at an altitude, making allowance for refraction, equal to that of the observer at T. Now the points B, B, being three miles from T, would have been the square of three, or nine times 8 inches, or 6 feet below the line of sight, C, T, C, as seen in the following diagram, fig. 8.


FIG. 8.



I highlighted the part where he tampers with his results. Depending on how high the theodolite was depends on how high up the bridge it would land. The "6 feet below the line of sight" refers to how much lower the ground is at 3 miles, so if the bridges were taller than 6 feet it is likely that they were visible at 3 miles - and that's assuming you were on the ground, if you aren't a worm yourself they wouldn't even need to be 6 feet tall.

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Kasroa Is Gone

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2007, 03:29:55 PM »
Like I said....full of lies. And to think Tom actually lives by this garbage. I know for a fact he has never carried out any of the experiments or else he would not now believe the Earth to be flat.

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Raist

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2007, 08:32:05 PM »
Water isn't flat. Because of gravitational attraction it is constantly trying to get as close to the center of the earth as possible. This means there is a slight curve to the water the same as their is to the earth. Water at any point on the ocean is equidistant from the center of the earth (this is ignoring things like tides and waves).

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Rudd Master 3000

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2007, 04:49:37 AM »
Water isn't flat. Because of gravitational attraction it is constantly trying to get as close to the center of the earth as possible. This means there is a slight curve to the water the same as their is to the earth. Water at any point on the ocean is equidistant from the center of the earth (this is ignoring things like tides and waves).

And the rotation of the earth and probably many other things but you're essentially correct... and late.

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Mr. Ireland

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2007, 05:44:26 AM »
Quote
In fact, Rowbotham's experimental results have not only gone unduplicated, they have been repeatedly falsified.

If Robotham's experiments could be falsified over and over throughout the years, why couldn't Round Earth experiments be falsified over and over throughout the years too?

How do we know which measurements are accurate, and which measurements are falsified?


You eliminate all variables that could make your results inaccurate to what you want, then conduct the experiment.  Then repeat at different times to be sure your results are consistent.

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_MarquisDeSade

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Re: Bedford Canal Experiment
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2007, 06:06:13 AM »
RE wins this one also.
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?"

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets