They've lied to the world about the stars

  • 1081 Replies
  • 42143 Views
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1020 on: April 26, 2024, 10:51:27 PM »
Do you really believe that they saw 5 distinct belts and this specific feature on the edge of one of those belts, first of all?

Or do you believe that is what they thought they saw, whether it was seen or they thought they saw it?

They couldn’t have thought they saw this, because they said they saw this feature at a position, on Saturn, each time, for years, timing its rate of rotation.

If they really did this, over 200 years ago, others would have attempted the same thing later on, except with ever better telescopes they would have had, wouldn’t they?

That’s always done later on with seeing the moon again, for example. Everything seen before is seen again and again afterwards.

That’s why it looked odd to me when NASA referred to their old claims about timing Saturns rotation back then, as being close to their recent timing of it, why would they refer to centuries old claims as close to theirs?

Nobody tried it after they did, until NASA did it again 200 years later with a ‘space probe’?

This is such a farce.


*

EarthIsRotund

  • 276
  • Earth is round. Yes.
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1021 on: April 26, 2024, 11:13:59 PM »
I want to have proof, and all it takes to prove it, is to launch rockets straight upward, and see what happens.


Yeah, buddy. Someone's been there, done that
I love Mairimashita Iruma Kun

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1022 on: April 27, 2024, 01:26:14 AM »
Do you really believe that they saw 5 distinct belts and this specific feature on the edge of one of those belts, first of all?

Or do you believe that is what they thought they saw, whether it was seen or they thought they saw it?

They couldn’t have thought they saw this, because they said they saw this feature at a position, on Saturn, each time, for years, timing its rate of rotation.

If they really did this, over 200 years ago, others would have attempted the same thing later on, except with ever better telescopes they would have had, wouldn’t they?

That’s always done later on with seeing the moon again, for example. Everything seen before is seen again and again afterwards.

That’s why it looked odd to me when NASA referred to their old claims about timing Saturns rotation back then, as being close to their recent timing of it, why would they refer to centuries old claims as close to theirs?

Nobody tried it after they did, until NASA did it again 200 years later with a ‘space probe’?

This is such a farce.

200yrs later and im still waiting for you to answer

What is the angle between segments of an 8,000sided polygon.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1023 on: April 27, 2024, 01:30:46 AM »
Do you really believe that they saw 5 distinct belts and this specific feature on the edge of one of those belts, first of all?




Still has noting to do with the moons of Saturn, Jupiter and its moons, and comets kill your dome delusion.

Noticed you ran from the thread “Why do airplanes have machinery to tell whether they are parallel to the ground?”

And the laser experiment you asked for repeatedly demonstrates the earth is curved. 

*

JackBlack

  • 21927
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1024 on: April 27, 2024, 03:08:52 PM »
You think Astronomy is a valid and real ‘science’
Yes.

built entirely on a group of highly paid people who make claims about seeing things in ‘space’ through telescopes they never allow us to see through to confirm if their claims are valid or true?
No. That is your fantasy.
Anyone can do astronomy.
But if you want to compete with what we have no, you need either very large Earth based telescopes, or spaced based telescopes.
No one is preventing you from getting these.

As for letting you use it, try going to a hospital and asking for you personally to use the MRI, see what they say.

They made those claims about Saturn centuries ago, without ever being proven at all.
You mean by proving beyond any sane doubt, but you group everyone who has agreed with them as liars to dismiss them.
i.e. you aren't willing to look at the evidence. You have made up your mind, and anyone who shows you otherwise you dismiss as a liar or a fool.

But now that we have seen Saturn close up
With space probes, which match their claims, which you dismiss as lies.
You are yet to present anything that contradicts their claims.

They made Saturn into a planet, with all these claims.
No, Saturn was already known to be a planet before those claims.
Your argument is pure BS.

If they didn’t lie about it, why haven’t we even seen any indication of what they claimed to see
Because you choose to remain wilfully ignorant and dismiss anything supporting it as a lie.

It’s those who make claims that must prove them as true
And that includes YOU!
YOU claimed they are lies, so YOU prove it.

Otherwise, retract your claims, admit you have lied to us every time you claimed to have proven them lies, and then try focusing on their claims.

Don’t you realize how stupid this is?
I do realise how stupid you and your argument are.

Like someone saying he saw 5 distinct rings on the Presidents right hand, while every film of it shows one ring on that hand, in fact.
No, it is more like saying a ring with groves in it, yet every piece of crap you have provided is not good enough to show if there are groves or not.
At other times, it is like saying they saw a cat outside the window, and you provide photos where curtains cover the windows and say there is no cat outside.

We can easily prove this, launching a rocket in clear skies straight upward, and see what happens, will prove who is right, and who is wrong, and will forever settle tnis debate, and this whole story, along with it.
No, it wont, as already shown.
This has been done, and you just dismiss it.

Again, for any honest person, there is already more than enough evidence of rockets going into space.
For dishonest "people" like you, nothing will ever be enough as you will dismiss it as a lie/fake.

I want to have proof, and all it takes to prove it, is to launch rockets straight upward, and see what happens.
No, you want proof of your fantasy being true, and will reject any proof that it is false. As you have already done.

If they really did this, over 200 years ago, others would have attempted the same thing later on, except with ever better telescopes they would have had, wouldn’t they?
So go through every single note about every single astronomical observation, and see if you can find it.

Nobody tried it after they did, until NASA did it again 200 years later with a ‘space probe’?
I already proved that was a lie.
Previously you had the option of ignorance, but as you brought it up in this thread, and I provided a paper showing that claim is false, you repeating is now you blatantly lying to everyone to try to prop up your fantasy.
Where I also pointed out you entirely failed with your math.

Here is the post:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=91800.msg2420335#msg2420335

And how did you respond? Pretty much ignore it all, and yet again deflect.

Truly pathetic, and truly dishonest.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1025 on: April 27, 2024, 06:54:31 PM »
Do you really believe that they saw 5 distinct belts and this specific feature on the edge of one of those belts, first of all?

Or do you believe that is what they thought they saw, whether it was seen or they thought they saw it?

They couldn’t have thought they saw this, because they said they saw this feature at a position, on Saturn, each time, for years, timing its rate of rotation.

If they really did this, over 200 years ago, others would have attempted the same thing later on, except with ever better telescopes they would have had, wouldn’t they?

That’s always done later on with seeing the moon again, for example. Everything seen before is seen again and again afterwards.

That’s why it looked odd to me when NASA referred to their old claims about timing Saturns rotation back then, as being close to their recent timing of it, why would they refer to centuries old claims as close to theirs?

Nobody tried it after they did, until NASA did it again 200 years later with a ‘space probe’?

This is such a farce.

200yrs later and im still waiting for you to answer

What is the angle between segments of an 8,000sided polygon.

You’ve had 200 years to answer your own question, and explain why it’s relevant at all, that’s one of the main reasons I haven’t answered your question, or ask someone to answer bs I come up with because it seems impressive and intelligent.

Now you can either make some sort of argument here, answer your own question if it’s so important to you, and move along already.   

All you do is ask the same question over and over again, like a parrot who says the same thing repeatedly, but is meaningless chatter.

Make a point if there is one, or drop the bs.
 

*

JackBlack

  • 21927
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1026 on: April 27, 2024, 07:42:08 PM »
You’ve had 200 years to answer your own question, and explain why it’s relevant at all
It isn't relevant for this thread, but is relevant for the ones where you keep bringing up levels.

Now can you justify your claims for this thread?

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1027 on: April 28, 2024, 01:45:52 AM »
Do you really believe that they saw 5 distinct belts and this specific feature on the edge of one of those belts, first of all?

Or do you believe that is what they thought they saw, whether it was seen or they thought they saw it?

They couldn’t have thought they saw this, because they said they saw this feature at a position, on Saturn, each time, for years, timing its rate of rotation.

If they really did this, over 200 years ago, others would have attempted the same thing later on, except with ever better telescopes they would have had, wouldn’t they?

That’s always done later on with seeing the moon again, for example. Everything seen before is seen again and again afterwards.

That’s why it looked odd to me when NASA referred to their old claims about timing Saturns rotation back then, as being close to their recent timing of it, why would they refer to centuries old claims as close to theirs?

Nobody tried it after they did, until NASA did it again 200 years later with a ‘space probe’?

This is such a farce.

Do you rely on your eyes when you are driving a car, Turbonium?

Like any motorist of today, the astronomers you refer to, relied on what they saw of Saturn through their telescopes with their eyes. What else did they have to rely upon, Turbonium?

Now, what possible motive did any of these astronomers have, to fudge their findings? To lie? How does lying about "bands" or a feature to measure rotation on Saturn, benefit any of these astronomers?



Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1028 on: April 28, 2024, 02:06:48 AM »

As for letting you use it, try going to a hospital and asking for you personally to use the MRI, see what they say.

Or I just rent a mobile MRI myself with my medical device business, or those working in any related field could rent.  I’m pretty sure they don’t care what you do, as long as you have liability insurance and sign for any damage of equipment or misuse of device lawsuits if someone dies or harmed by your rental unit.


Other than liability, which is by far the greatest concern within the medical industry, it’s much like any other business.  I’m sure that’s why they’ll allow government agencies to rent them, liability is already taken into account by them.

The point is, we can use and rent our own MRIs, or almost anything else we want to use or rent or buy, all it takes is having the money for it.

It seems like you believe only a select group of people can use highly priced specially made instruments, like an MRI or their expensive telescopes, but only telescopes are not allowed to be used, by anyone of us, even if we offered money, otherwise they’d rent them out to us for money, and operate them for us, and we’d just look through them to see stars or Saturn, and see them closer than ever before, and film them with the best instruments we have.

I’m sure you’d like to see them through our best telescopes, and pay them for it, to operate them, point them to Saturn in clear conditions, magnify on it, and then you could look and film it for half an hour or so non-stop.  I don’t know what they would charge you for that, I’m sure it’d be quite expensive. Maybe a few grand or so?

Why wouldn’t they rent them out during off-hours? They’d operate them, or have others operate them, and make tons of money in the process!

Science isn’t about keeping secrets, hiding things from us that they have discovered or seen.  Science is about finding the unknown, seeing what has never been seen before, and so forth, but what is far more important than that, is to show and spread and allow the world to see what was never seen before they saw it, show the world what they discovered, explain their findings, repeat tests, allow others to confirm what they saw, they did, what was used, how they used it, etc.

It seems like you have no clue that Astronomy didn’t even exist as a supposed ‘science’ for thousands of years before it was created by the European elites, who ruled the world by that time.

That is, it did not start up naturally, like most sciences did and will do in future.

Astrology began thousands of years before their phony ‘science’ did. 

Astrologers were the actual ones who had mapped out the stars, mapped their paths, the ones who identified groups of stars as constellations, noted the shapes of stars in an outline of animals or objects, knew when a unique object called a meteor (which is a unique star too) would pass across the skies, identified certain stars which had unique paths from the other stars, which is why they called them wandering stars, not their so-called ‘planets’ later on, which is total bs.

Stars have never changed, never moved their positions above Earth, look at the constellations now, they have never, will never change at all. Nothing has ever changed or moved elsewhere in position, this was known by astrologers long ago.

All of them move position, I think to ‘recharge energy’ after a long time, and return to the same position again. I think that they fade out in light at the time, and not seen or dimly seen when they move position to charge up again, but who knows? 

But I certainly DO know that there’s no way that their fairy tale story holds up at all, saying that all the stars are trillions of miles away from Earth, while every star and the Earth and the rest, are all speeding around through an endless space or universe, in all directions at random, or even all in one exact same direction, having them all be trillions of miles from each other. Their made up magical force can perform many great miracles, but it won’t make this one happen, when they’ve already claimed their magical force is almost nonexistent in ‘space’

So they make up other idiotic excuses for that problem.

All the excuses in the world cannot explain this. The truth explains it perfectly. Stars are all the same, from their creation and were set above the Earth, within the Firmament, below it, as all others were.

Only they move above a fixed Earth, in cycles which always repeat again and again over time.

That’s why all stars are the very same stars, and it does explain this. No bs excuses needed, when it is the truth.

Nobody can possibly make a model of their story here.

Why not tell us about an even greater magical force than ‘gravity’ which they could call ‘superglue force’?

It fits right in with all their other bs, and you’d believe it in an instant! 



i.e. you aren't willing to look at the evidence. You have made up your mind, and anyone who shows you otherwise you dismiss as a liar or a fool.

Evidence is based on what, exactly?

Based on being confirmed as true, by others who aren’t claiming to have evidence, for one thing.

As I’ve told you before, those ‘space probes’ you believe are real, you believe ‘space’ is an endless area beyond Earth, are simply things that have no proof of even existing. They tell us they exist, without a shred of proof that they exist. That’s why they always show us films of ‘floating’ astronauts in ‘space’. They made sci-fi movies with the same crap years before NASA did it. That’s not because movie directors somehow were able to perfectly depict how we’d ‘float’ in ‘space’, years before it came to be ‘true’!  It’s been planned to look that way all along. They’re all movies, so everything looks the same, or almost so. 

They knew that if they could fool everyone into believing that ‘space’ was real, as an endless area beyond the Earth, that nobody could ever know their claims about ‘space’ were all lies.

They told us about certain very special people, within the US military, that were among their best pilots, who they selected to become astronauts, and to fly in rockets up into ‘space’ and even go to the moon, walk on it, and return to Earth safely! 

This convinced people that ‘space’ was real, of course.

Yet nobody had any idea it was not proof at all.

Movies aren’t proof of anything. NASA made movies of ‘space’, the only difference is they didn’t tell us they were movies, they said they were real footage from ‘space’

Why would you think that is ‘evidence’, would be their so-called ‘documents’ and others of their same group, as all other countries are in this same group, but it looks like they’re not because they’re in different countries!!

This propaganda was sold as a ‘space race’ between America and the evil Communist empire!  We will defeat the evil empire by being the first to land men on the moon, and after it happened, America cheered that they won the space race over the evil empire!

Why would they say the first one that lands men on the moon was the winner of the space race? I don’t remember them saying that, I’ve looked back for quotes on it, but haven’t found anyone saying that.

If anything, the first one that gets into ‘space’ would win a space race, which was the evil empire.

Then only a couple years after Apollo ended, they join up and plan to go into space together, in a joint mission!

That’s like if Hitler and Hirohito met up with Roosevelt and Churchill during WW2 and joined together as friends, tell their military to go back home now, the war is over, we’re all pals now!

Sadly, they actually COULD have done that, if they chose to, because it’s all planned out anyway. The deaths of millions of people were planned out to die, all wars are planned for mass deaths.

They’ve trained us to not think or use our own intelligence that allows our reasoning and common sense to be used.

Most people think ‘space’ is real, an endless area beyond Earth.

Nothing proves it is real, nobody can prove it from Earth, either way, and nothing can ever prove it either way, until we try to launch rockets straight upward in clear skies, and see what happens to them.

Those who already know if space is really true, or not true at all, are the ones with all the rockets, or the ones we’d see from a longer distance above us. Others are little rockets, not easily seen at the height of any barrier that would exist, so they might not be seen at that altitude, or only with instruments, and not much would be seen of them anyway.

They would still work, but not as conclusive proof, which we need here.

And all the bigger rockets are built and controlled by NASA and their cohorts.

There are two of the worlds richest people who are now launching their own rockets, which are not their own rockets at all, they are controlled by NASA, who denies they control their rockets, like they deny every other country launching rockets into space or to the moon are all one same group in on it.

They’ve been really busy piling up their bs story, the past few years, because they’re very worried it is being exposed more and more as a sham, and they’re right about that.

When they have no way to explain why we can see details and movements and colours of stars, which are all unique stars, in various degrees, what do they say?

That it’s all from effects of the atmosphere, and wrong method of using the instruments, or any combination of excuses.

We know it’s nothing but a bs excuse, when we know they have NEVER said stars have looked like this before, due to atmospheric effects.

They didn’t have to say it until now, as a lousy excuse for it.






With space probes, which match their claims, which you dismiss as lies.
You are yet to present anything that contradicts their claims.

Because you choose to remain wilfully ignorant and dismiss anything supporting it as a lie.

Once more, you have no evidence, space has no proof of existing as they claim it to be, that makes every other claim of things being IN space worthless to start with.

I’ve kept telling you there’s no proof rockets fly up into ‘space’, that to prove this, beyond any doubt, is by launching rockets straight upward on clear blue skies, where we would all see what happens to them.

You know we never see them fly up into space, see them fly up until we see a little speck, which goes up further and out of all sight.

Every excuse you make for it doesn’t matter at all, you have no proof of your claim.

Look at that little rocket which they flew straight upward, and hit the firmament, but later revised their video of it to fit the fairy tale story.

They now say it doesn’t hit anything when it stops going up. They say it reaches up into ‘space’ at that time, and show us added on footage of it ‘floating’ in ‘space’!  Right, they forgot to leave that part in their first video of it!!! Good one!


No, it is more like saying a ring with groves in it, yet every piece of crap you have provided is not good enough to show if there are groves or  not

Can you determine from the video taking through that vastly superior telescope than they had back then, if you would see, or most likely see, at least one or two distinct rings, from what you can see of it here?

Do you think that when we see one large darker area in the orbs middle region, which is very blotchy and appears to be in constant motion, you’ve claimed there is no motion of Saturn at all, it is due to atmospheric effects.

The issue of motion or no motion is not relevant to their claims of seeing 5 distinct belts and their edges, and a feature seen at one position on Saturn.

If they claimed all this was seen by them, they never say it was rarely seen, sometimes seen, other times not seen, or how often it was seen, but they said they saw it for years, to determine its speed of rotation, implies they always saw it, or most of the time anyway.

This rules out the excuse that we’ve not seen Saturn in that video in good seeing conditions as you assume they had all the time for years.

Look closely at that video of Saturn, which shows a large belt around the middle area of the orb, with ever changing edges seen on it, and look at it in each of the frames of the video..,

Looking at the edges we do see, they are very much like the edges we see in most of the OTHER videos also. They also show one large darker belt in the middle like in that video.

This would suggest all of them match up closely because it is only one large belt with ‘wavy’ edges on it, while there is absolutely nothing that indicates there are multiple distinct belts, nor any parallel edges or any specific feature on it.

If you seriously believe that this one large belt with wavy edges that matches up with most other videos, would somehow magically transform into multiple distinct belts with edges on them, or that it’s more likely to show multiple distinct belts than one large belt with wavy edges, you’re in dreamland.

How would the wavy edges turn into one edge on the top belt and the other one become the bottom edge of another belt, is actually the easier question to solve than the rest of it.  You have to make at least 3 or 4 belts out of this one large belt, which only would happen with Photoshop editing it, and even that wouldn’t be very easy to do, there’s a lot of belt there that you’d need to take out, just to make it into multiple belts. Then you’d have to sharpen all their edges to make them ‘distinct’ like they claimed to see.

Since the belt changes in every frame or two, you’d have to edit each of the frames in the video, to start with. And then make sure each frame matches up everywhere on it, no easy task that is, among others.

For those who aren’t delusional or living in a fairy tale land, it is blatantly obvious that this one large belt actually does have wavy edges over it, which is further confirmed to be the case from all the other videos which show the same thing too, in various degrees of quality and so on, which would always happen with various videos and various instruments. 

But when they all still show the same thing, it’s conclusive evidence of those features are there




So go through every single note about every single astronomical observation, and see if you can find it.


Right, you’d like me to go on another phantom search for things that aren’t there, except in your own mind, hoping they exist somewhere  but yet to be found!

Let’s start with NASA referring to their claims as close to their own, which must mean nothing better or closer to their time of rotation has ever been done or found, even if others DID try it later on, but that would look even worse than if nobody tried it again, or just as ridiculous anyway.

When NASA referred to their claims as close to theirs, or said they were close to the actual time, they’re lying to support other liars back then.


*

EarthIsRotund

  • 276
  • Earth is round. Yes.
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1029 on: April 28, 2024, 02:23:06 AM »
There are literally tens of thousands of amature astronomers with a dobsonion telescope. Go to reddit. Go to YouTube. Infact, you can build your own one, if you have the skills and knowledge. Although, I suppose you don't have either.


Also, you still haven't answered - what in Jesus H Christ is the sun doing above earth instead falling 'down' as you say every object tends to?
I love Mairimashita Iruma Kun

*

JackBlack

  • 21927
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1030 on: April 28, 2024, 02:59:07 AM »
I notice like the lying coward you are, you have yet again chosen to flee from your burden of proof.
You have yet again decided to spam so much irrelevant BS it isn't funny; without providing anything to back up your baseless claims.
I wonder why? Is it to deflect from your complete inability to defend your claims?
With you now repeating the same pathetic refuted lies?

The point is, we can use and rent our own MRIs, or almost anything else we want to use or rent or buy, all it takes is having the money for it.
Just like you can pay for the construction of a state of the art telescope?
Just like you can pay to get a satellite launched into space?

otherwise they’d rent them out to us for money
For the most part, no they wouldn't.
There are far fewer of them, and most are already tied up in programs using them.

But there are some you can rent. So yet again, you spout crap based upon nothing more than your wilful ignorance.
e.g. https://skymapper.anu.edu.au/purchase-time/
https://www.slooh.com/

see them closer than ever before
Again, if you want to see them closer, you will need a space probe, not a telescope.
A telescope wont magically bring it closer.
Magnified is not closer.

film them with the best instruments we have.
No, because that is a waste for those instruments.

I’m sure you’d like to see them through our best telescopes, and pay them for it
Not really, as I don't see the point. I certainly wouldn't pay for it.
Why would I pay for it?

Why wouldn’t they rent them out during off-hours?
You mean during the day, where they often have covers closed to stop the sun shining on it?

Science isn’t about keeping secrets, hiding things from us that they have discovered or seen.
Which is why they wrote it down, so people can know.
But people like you who don't like reality just reject it.

It seems like you have no clue that Astronomy didn’t even exist as a supposed ‘science’ for thousands of years
The whole idea of "science" and different fields of science is relatively new.
But astronomy has existed since ancient times.
It started quite naturally from people looking up at the sky and wondering what it was they were seeing.

Astrology began thousands of years before their phony ‘science’ did.
Wrong again. The REAL science of astronomy started along with the BS of astrology.

Stars have never changed, never moved their positions above Earth
Repeating the same lies wont help you.
There are mountains of evidence that stars HAVE moved position over time.

But I certainly DO know that there’s no way that their fairy tale story holds up at all
No, you BELIEVE that, ever so desperately, because you are desperate for your fantasy to be true, and reality is not compatible with your fantasy.
If you knew it you would be able to show faults.

in all directions at random
No, they aren't random.

All the excuses in the world cannot explain this.
Explain what?
You basically just threw a tantrum and said you don't like it.
You didn't even attempt to articulate a problem.

No bs excuses needed, when it is the truth.
Yet that is exactly what you appealed to, pure magic of a magical formation which magically sets them in a magical place and makes them move by pure magic.
You have no explanation, because you are spouting pure BS.

Why not tell us about an even greater magical force than ‘gravity’ which they could call ‘superglue force’?
Because gravity is real, magic superglue force is not.

Based on being confirmed as true, by others who aren’t claiming to have evidence, for one thing.
Wrong again. Confirming it as true means they have to have their own evidence.
Otherwise, how are they confirming it?

simply things that have no proof of even existing.
Your wilful rejection of reality does not mean there is no evidence of these things existing.

Movies aren’t proof of anything. NASA made movies of ‘space’, the only difference is they didn’t tell us they were movies, they said they were real footage from ‘space’
i.e. you wilfully reject any evidence which doesn't fit your fantasy.
This includes video evidence, showing an incredible dishonest when you present video evidence yourself or demand it from others.
Yet again showing you are lying scum.

Nothing proves it is real, nobody can prove it from Earth
Except plenty of observations, including measurements of the pressure gradient which can be extrapolated.

Do you know what there is absolutely no evidence for? Your BS dome.

until we try to launch rockets straight upward in clear skies, and see what happens to them.
i.e. what has already been rejected by you.
Saying this again just yet again shows you are lying scum.

You KNOW this has been done.
You KNOW it shows you are wrong.
But because you don't like the result, you reject it as fake.

So how about YOU go get a rocket and launch it up?

They would still work, but not as conclusive proof, which we need here.
The issue with "conclusive proof" is that lying scum like you will still reject it because it doesn't fit your fantasy.

We know it’s nothing but a bs excuse, when we know they have NEVER said stars have looked like this before, due to atmospheric effects.
Did you ever consider that was because they didn't have lying scum intentionally filming it out of focus?

Once more, you have no evidence, space has no proof of existing
Once more, that is you rejecting the evidence as fake, because you don't like it.

Look at that little rocket which they flew straight upward, and hit the firmament
WHERE?
You claimed this happened, but you have NOTHING to support that.

They now say it doesn’t hit anything when it stops going up. They say it reaches up into ‘space’ at that time, and show us added on footage of it ‘floating’ in ‘space’!  Right, they forgot to leave that part in their first video of it!!! Good one!
You mean lying scum much like yourself intentionally cut the video to lie about it?


Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1031 on: April 28, 2024, 03:00:59 AM »
None of those instruments you mention will show multiple distinct belts on Saturn either, that’s what I’m saying here.

They claimed to see all this on Saturn, but no telescope will show anything close to what they claimed to see on Saturn.

Every video I’ve seen, hundreds of them so far, don’t even come close to showing what thy claimed to see all the time for years.

When every video, hundreds of them, taken by all sorts of instruments, all show Saturn constantly in motion, endlessly in rapid rotation, it cannot be due to any effect of our atmosphere. It can only be actually IN motion, just as every video shows it in motion.

To argue that every video showing it in motion is all caused by an atmospheric effect, we know that no effects act eternally in one area, or act eternally on one object, nor cause objects to appear as if in motion, let alone in eternal motion.

There’s no eternal ‘heat hazes’ acting out forever on any object and making it appear to be in eternal motion, we all know that much is not true.

So why would you think it’s true with Saturn? It is not true anywhere at all.

*

JackBlack

  • 21927
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1032 on: April 28, 2024, 03:08:12 AM »
Can you determine from the video taking through that vastly superior telescope than they had back then
Do you mean the shitty video shot on phone camera rather than a telescope camera?
Or do you mean the shitty one with loads of compression artefacts?
And the ones where the ring was blocking the view to the southern hemisphere?

they said they saw it for years, to determine its speed of rotation, implies they always saw it, or most of the time anyway.
Where did they say they saw it for years?
And no, that doesn't imply they always saw it.
It implies there are periods of time where they can see it.

As a simple example of why your claim is clearly BS, roughly half the time, Earth is blocking the view and they can't see it.

They have also reported how the ring appears to cover the southern hemisphere, or the northern hemisphere, or be seen side on.

This rules out the excuse that we’ve not seen Saturn in that video in good seeing conditions
No, it doesn't.
As you have a tiny portion of observation, not years.

Looking at the edges we do see, they are very much like the edges we see in most of the OTHER videos also.
Prove it.

which only would happen with Photoshop editing it
Or with clearer video.

For those who aren’t delusional or living in a fairy tale land
So people who aren't you?
That understand issues with footage, and aren't dumb enough to think that footage is showing it perfectly?

Right, you’d like me to go on another phantom search for things that aren’t there
And with that you have effectively admitted you are just spouting crap from nothing more than your wilful ignorance.
If you want to claim no one has done it, then you need to prove it.
Otherwise, the best you have is that you don't know if anyone has done it.
Quite a different claim, which entirely destroys your BS argument.

Let’s start with NASA referring to their claims as close to their own, which must mean nothing better or closer to their time of rotation has ever been done or found
No it doesn't.
Yet again you spout pure BS with no justification.
And it also doesn't mean that no comparable times were done.

They claimed to see all this on Saturn, but no telescope will show anything close to what they claimed to see on Saturn.
That is your claim you are yet to substantiate.

When every video, hundreds of them, taken by all sorts of instruments
You mean the limited set you are using, which all show significant distortion by either atmospheric turbulence, sensor noise, the motion of the camera or compression; making them useless to back up your claim.

To argue that every video showing it in motion is all caused by an atmospheric effect, we know that no effects act eternally in one area
Again, we know the atmosphere is turbulent.
So we know this effect is "eternal", and varies in magnitude.
Which is why you still haven't produced a video of a 1 m wide object appearing perfectly "motionless" through a distance of 10 km.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1033 on: April 28, 2024, 04:26:53 AM »
So you think every single video of Saturn is crappy and not evidence at all, even though they all show the same things?

All show one large belt with wavy edges in constant rotation, yet you think they’re all crappy videos, so why would they all show the same thing?  More than that, you dont even have one video showing it differently than they all do, and have no evidence at all

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1034 on: April 28, 2024, 09:32:00 AM »
If thats what it takes for" proof"
Feel free to show us one map one video one photo of a flat earth.




Also
Whats the angle betweren segments of an 8,000 sided pologon?

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1035 on: April 28, 2024, 11:26:21 AM »
So you think every single video of Saturn is crappy and not evidence at all, even though they all show the same things?

All show one large belt with wavy edges in constant rotation, yet you think they’re all crappy videos, so why would they all show the same thing?  More than that, you dont even have one video showing it differently than they all do, and have no evidence at all

No. We think every single video you have put up as proof for your argument is shit. Your Saturn videos were all shot by pathetic amateurs. Then, when you are shown high quality videos of Saturn taken by smart amateurs, you are dismissive. You are even more dismissive of videos of Saturn taken by expert astronomers by the best telescopes in the modern world, declaring those videos are fake.

Your Saturn arguments, Turbonium, like the Saturn videos you endorse -  are SHIT.

*

JackBlack

  • 21927
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1036 on: April 28, 2024, 01:24:01 PM »
So you think every single video of Saturn is crappy and not evidence at all, even though they all show the same things?
They don't all "show the same thing".
They show Saturn with varying levels of distortion.
They are not good enough to support your claim, so they are not evidence for your claim.
Most that you appeal to are taken with vastly inferior instruments.
You have so far found 2 examples on a better instrument, one of which went through so much video compression artefacts were quite obvious, the other was taken with a camera on a phone, not the telescope itself.

e.g. this one:

Does not show the same thing.
With this, you can't even clearly distinguish the rings from Saturn itself.
It does not show the wavy edges you claim for the belt.

you dont even have one video
Again, the burden of proof is on you.
You claimed they lied, so you prove it, or admit you have been lying every time you claimed to have proven it.

*

EarthIsRotund

  • 276
  • Earth is round. Yes.
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1037 on: April 29, 2024, 12:09:00 AM »
None of those instruments you mention will show multiple distinct belts on Saturn either, that’s what I’m saying here.

They claimed to see all this on Saturn, but no telescope will show anything close to what they claimed to see on Saturn.

Every video I’ve seen, hundreds of them so far, don’t even come close to showing what thy claimed to see all the time for years.

When every video, hundreds of them, taken by all sorts of instruments, all show Saturn constantly in motion, endlessly in rapid rotation, it cannot be due to any effect of our atmosphere. It can only be actually IN motion, just as every video shows it in motion.

To argue that every video showing it in motion is all caused by an atmospheric effect, we know that no effects act eternally in one area, or act eternally on one object, nor cause objects to appear as if in motion, let alone in eternal motion.

There’s no eternal ‘heat hazes’ acting out forever on any object and making it appear to be in eternal motion, we all know that much is not true.

So why would you think it’s true with Saturn? It is not true anywhere at all.





I love Mairimashita Iruma Kun

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1038 on: April 29, 2024, 12:22:29 AM »
So you think every single video of Saturn is crappy and not evidence at all, even though they all show the same things?

All show one large belt with wavy edges in constant rotation, yet you think they’re all crappy videos, so why would they all show the same thing?  More than that, you dont even have one video showing it differently than they all do, and have no evidence at all

I know I'm a bit harsh with you and the other Flerfers, but it's for your own good.

I take it, in your research, Turbonium, you established how many other astronomers of Herschel's day, verified Herschel's findings? Or how many non-astronomers of Herschel's day verified Herschel's findings?

Herschel wasn't the only astronomer in his day, you know, Turbonium. Other astronomers were there to verify or refute his discoveries. Did you find any evidence of other astronomers refuting Herschel's claims?

Because, I haven't.

You can't just go running around saying someone is a liar, without proof, Turbonium. It doesn't matter if they are alive or dead.

You don't like it when Jack Black calls you a liar, do you?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2024, 03:51:54 AM by Smoke Machine »

*

Timeisup

  • 3676
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1039 on: May 03, 2024, 04:00:35 AM »
So you think every single video of Saturn is crappy and not evidence at all, even though they all show the same things?

All show one large belt with wavy edges in constant rotation, yet you think they’re all crappy videos, so why would they all show the same thing?  More than that, you dont even have one video showing it differently than they all do, and have no evidence at all

Close minded people like you who refuse to see reality and prefer to grasp tightly to believing in nonsense are only deluding them selves.

You have said that the truth is being hidden from the public as they are prevented from acquiring powerful telescopes that reveal the truth. That is of course just nonsense and a blatant lie as telescopes are freely available for anyone who has some spare cash.

If you really cared about the truth you could go and have a look through one and all your questions would be answered. But of course you won't and you don't as you prefer to live in a world of close minded ignorance.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1671647-REG/unistellar_evscope_equinox_telescope.html
Really…..what a laugh!!!

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1040 on: May 03, 2024, 12:19:22 PM »
Everybody knows Turbo lives in a world of rainbows, lollipops, and unicorns on a flat earth.

I propose each glober here go to their nearest observatory, view Saturn, and upload images of Saturn from their obseratory session  here to this thread. That way we can all compare the bands on Saturn and features to measure it's rotation.

I don't expect Turbs or any other Flerfers to do the same and put at risk their fantasy bubble. Just go back to the corner of the room rocking back and forth in the foetal position, while sucking your thumb, Turbs. It's what you you do best.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2024, 12:23:00 PM by Smoke Machine »

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1041 on: May 03, 2024, 07:16:12 PM »
You claimed they lied, so you prove it, or admit you have been lying every time you claimed to have proven it.

Again you ignore the fact that THEY made those claims about Saturn, and that those claims have no proof at all, while all the proof we DO have shows those claims are clearly false, purely fiction.

My view on those claims doesn’t mean you can ignore those claims as if they didn’t exist, that’s what MY view is BASED on, that is the issue here.

I couldn’t HAVE a view on those claims if they didn’t exist in the first place!

You’re trying to jump past the issue I based my view on, and say I’m the one making claims here!

Their claims about Saturn are the issue here, I was the one who brought them up here, AS the issue! 

You didn’t bring this up, you had nothing to DO with it, and you’re certainly not going to twist it around on me, spout about it being about my VIEW on this issue, on THEIR claims!

You’re simply hiding from the issue, hiding from their claims, because you know they’re false, otherwise there WOULD be proof for them, or at least an indication of them being true or possibly true.

There would be at least SOME videos that support their claims as valid in some way, indicate that there are multiple belts, not just one large belt.

We can’t even see multiple belts on Saturn, so how could they see five DISTINCT belts and their edges, and one with partially parallel edges on one side of it, and a distinct ‘feature’ on the other side’s edges?  And see it in one position on Saturn, and later see it at another position on Saturn?

Don’t say these claims aren’t the issue here, because they ARE the issue here!

I’ve given my own opinion of those claims, same as we all have views on issues or someone’s claims on things.

If someone claimed to see flying pink elephants around Saturn through his telescope, said it was custom built and among the best in the world, but never let anyone else use it or test it, would you believe his claims are true or valid?  If he was an astronomer, and other astronomers said they saw through his telescope and saw those same flying pink elephants around Saturn, too?

And NASA said they also saw them in their ‘space probe images’ showing these pink elephants close up?

I’m sure you would believe them, no reason you wouldn’t believe them.

Even though all our videos don’t show anything of it, even though we never see it, through any telescope, you’d say all our telescopes are crap, all our videos are crap.

They could’ve claimed to see little green aliens on Saturn through their telescopes, have others say they saw them too, and you’d believe it was true!

If they had claimed to see flying pink elephants around Saturn over 200 years ago, claimed to time there rotation speed around Saturn, see a distinct feature on one of those pink elephants, and used this feature to time their rotation speed around Saturn with it, you’d certainly believe their claims are true, as you do now for these claims.

You’d see all our videos showing no pink elephants at all, you’d never see it, never find any telescope on Earth showing it, yet say I have to find all other telescopes that haven’t taken videos of it yet, which are as good or better telescopes than they had 200 years ago before they scrapped it. 

When you say their telescope was better than any we have today, 200 years after they scrapped it, you’ve got nothing to be claiming about it, as better or greater than any we have today, since you have no clue, it doesn’t exist at all, for over 200 years now, hasn’t existed.

Claiming that you know all about it, claiming you know it was better and greater than every telescope we have today, because it was much larger in aperture than our telescopes today, ignores that they used crudely built lenses from chipping glass with hand tools, crude instruments measuring for accuracy and preciseness, among other issues back then, it’s no comparison to us today, that’s complete nonsense.

What you’re arguing is like comparing a massive sized computer built in the 1950’s which they scrapped 10 years later, but you claim how much better it was than ours today, by having larger and more reliable components or circuitry back then to what we use today!

But your old computer was scrapped long ago, and doesn’t exist to look and compare it to ours today.

The point is, you cannot act like an authority of non-existent scrapped instruments to start with, let alone over 200 years ago scrapped instruments, which are scrapped for better instruments, not if they’re better or as good as newer instruments, as better or equal to ours of today, but if you think it was better than all of ours today, because it had a larger aperture, a crappy and crude lenses they ALSO had back then, among many other problems, were why they scrapped them later on.

Not that it matters, anyway, because they don’t exist anymore, you can’t argue what you believe or say about them, that’s all bs and you’re the one lying about it.

You’re the one making claims about a non-existent instrument, not me!

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1042 on: May 03, 2024, 08:08:19 PM »
The instruments existed, thumb sucker, and the observations of Saturn were verified at the time. You have zero proof they weren't.

You're like a broken record, playing the same fucked up tune.

Pull yourself together and build your own telescope if you must, or go to an observatory and expand your view of this topic you chose to argue.

*

JackBlack

  • 21927
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1043 on: May 03, 2024, 09:23:11 PM »
Again you ignore the fact that THEY made those claims about Saturn
No, I'm not.
But YOU are dodging the fact you brought these claims because you couldn't defend your claims.

Again, if you want to focus on the claims themselves, admit you were lying when you claimed to have proven they lied.

that those claims have no proof at all, while all the proof we DO have shows those claims are clearly false, purely fiction.
That is your fantasy, not a fact.
There is plenty of proof of their claims which you dismiss as fake/lies.
There is nothing to prove their claims are false.

My view on those claims doesn’t mean you can ignore those claims as if they didn’t exist, that’s what MY view is BASED on, that is the issue here.
YOUR CLAIM that they lied is the issue here.
That is a claim you are yet to justify.
If you actually had proof they were lies, you would stop with the pathetic deflections.

If you wanted to discuss their claims, the appropriate way is to bring them up and say you don't believe them. But you didn't. Instead you boldly proclaimed that they were lies and that you had proven they lied.

You didn’t bring this up, you had nothing to DO with it, and you’re certainly not going to twist it around on me, spout about it being about my VIEW on this issue, on THEIR claims!
And this just shows more dishonesty on your part.
That's right, I didn't bring it up. YOU DID. YOU brought up the claims to say they were lies.
That is what made your claim that they are lies as the issue at hand.

I don't need to prove their claims are true to object to your claims about their claims.

Don’t say these claims aren’t the issue here, because they ARE the issue here!
Their claims are not the issue here.
YOUR CLAIMS ARE!
You are yet to prove they have lied.
So far all you have is your wilful ignorance.

If someone claimed to see flying pink elephants
Try a reasonable claim, more in line with what has been said.

If someone claims to have seen a cat outside their window, would you believe it? Or would you call it a lie.
If someone said they were lying and didn't have any proof, would you accept that they lied?
If they then took a picture through the window with curtains covering the window to "prove" there wasn't a cat there, would you accept that?

Because that is the level of your insanity.

When you say their telescope was better than any we have today
Not any humanity has today.
Better than the cheap crap you continually appealed to.
Humanity has much better telescopes, but you dismiss things from that as lies and fakes.

What you’re arguing is like comparing a massive sized computer built in the 1950’s which they scrapped 10 years later, but you claim how much better it was than ours today, by having larger and more reliable components or circuitry back then to what we use today!
No, it is more like comparing a state of the art microscope from 20 years ago, with a cheap magnifying glass.

You’re the one making claims about a non-existent instrument, not me!
You are the one making claims about what they could or could not see.
If you want to claim they couldn't have seen it, then you need a better instrument than what they used.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1044 on: May 03, 2024, 09:29:17 PM »
My argument is based on all the valid evidence, which is from valid and independent sources, each of them unrelated or linked to the other sources, and unbiased and not linked to them.

Evidence is not anything they say was from ‘space’, that’s the only so-called ‘evidence’ they show us, and that’s not evidence at all.

Any sort of bs like ‘space’ is so easily proven as bs, they’ll never allow for it, or it would destroy their whole story, instantly.

They’ve told us many times before, that they DO want to prove that their story is true, while proving all doubters of it being the truth, and settle this debate, this great battle of the ages, to see truth, from lies, or not sure, that they will prove this is all true, to the world, from this point onward.

When I hear your same old excuse that they don’t need to prove something I consider as proof of this, just because I say they should do it…..

No, this would prove it, and everyone here should want them to prove that, by launching one rocket straight upward, and prove this forever afterwards, see the truth, and no more debates, no more doubts or conflicts, no more anger or insults, or things left unknown.

If you want to know the truth, that will show us the truth.






*

gnuarm

  • 175
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1045 on: May 03, 2024, 09:30:16 PM »
I wonder if this will be what hell is like for these guys, forced to argue through the Internet about things that don't matter to anyone, including themselves?

I think there's a word for this, Sisyphean.  This site seems to have a number of members who think they are Sisyphus.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1046 on: May 03, 2024, 10:26:44 PM »
When your non-existent instrument was scrapped, centuries ago, what was their reason for scrapping it, you think?

They developed ever better telescopes than they had, of course, and it was scrapped as old and inferior.

You can’t argue about non-existent telescopes, it’s completely ridiculous.

And worse, you can’t say how it was better than all of our telescopes are today!  That’s even more ridiculous!

When they later scrapped it, they had better telescopes that rendered that one obsolete and useless, that’s what always happens after better ones are developed later on. A few are saved for posterity and historical reasons, but most are scrapped as junk. Not used or useful and is junk.

You don’t even know about it, but act like you know all about it, how amazing you know everything about a long ago scrapped telescope!  Tell me how you possess such knowledge of this instrument?


Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1047 on: May 04, 2024, 12:13:33 AM »
What you don’t understand about their claims of seeing those things on Saturn, were the reason it became thought of as another ‘planet’, like Earth was said to be, in ‘endless space’

When they claimed to see 5 distinct belts, and a feature on an edge of one of those belts, and saw it at one position on Saturn, saw it at other positions on Saturn, and calculated the rotation of Saturn with that feature…..

That was their story that made Saturn into another ‘planet’ slowly rotating like they said Earth was doing too, and all others were made into ‘planets’ with stories they made up as the truth!

Of course they knew their stories were all made up by themselves, if any part was true, and obvious to see it, that was used to build their story around as well.

The obvious large area in the middle of Saturns orb, turned into 5 distinct belts, with edges on them, and a feature on an edge seen in one position on Saturn, which was seen at other positions on Saturn later on, and they worked for years to calculate its rotation time…

This would have been a very convincing story, nobody would think it was made up, and nobody ever saw it through their telescopes anyway.

So it was all believed true, as all things they told us were truths.

So when they claimed to see 5 distinct belts on Saturn, see their edges, see a feature on an edge in one position, see it at other positions later on….

Those claims are not ever seen to exist at all on Saturn.

There are not 5 distinct belts seen at all. No distinct feature seen at one position on Saturn at all.

We see only that Saturn is in a constant, endless, rapid rotational movement, among other motions as well.

You can say it’s caused by an effect or whatever you like, but we always see it in motion, real or by effect, it’s always seen this way, never still at all.

Their story is seeing a feature on Saturn at one position, and later was seen at other positions, indicating it wasn’t seen moving at all, they found out it was slowly moving over a long time.

But if you think those claims aren’t lies, you would claim to know all about their long ago scrapped telescope, and also claim to know it was much better than any telescopes that we have today, and also know there are other telescopes as amazing as theirs was, and say that I must find one of them, and take videos of Saturn with it, and show you these videos, but if I don’t do all that, you say I have no proof of them lying at all!!

Surely a convincing argument holding up a non-existent scrapped telescope from 200 years ago, and even more amazing, saying you know all about this telescope as far better than ours today, but not as good as some others, not used for any videos, of course!

Those superior telescopes have never taken videos of anything like Saturn at all, only the crappy ones have taken videos of Saturn!

It’s entirely up to me to be the first one doing it! After I get one, take videos of Saturn with it, I’ll be the first one ever to do it! 

And then youll say it’s crappy, and not proof at all, as usual.

No match for your imaginary telescope!




Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1048 on: May 04, 2024, 12:30:48 AM »
Surely they saw 5 distinct belts and their edges, and a feature on an edge which they saw in one position on Saturn, but only through their amazing telescope was it all seen, except if I find an equally amazing telescope like they had, and it will show these same things on Saturn that they saw, right?



Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1049 on: May 04, 2024, 07:03:24 AM »
Surely they saw 5 distinct belts and their edges, and a feature on an edge which they saw in one position on Saturn, but only through their amazing telescope was it all seen, except if I find an equally amazing telescope like they had, and it will show these same things on Saturn that they saw, right?

Were you dropped on your head at birth?????

Tell us all how many books about William HERSCHELL, you have read, Turbo? Because, I'm thinking it's around say, zero. Tell us how many books specifically about Saturn you have read? Again, i'm putting it at zero.

Yet here you are, day after day, pretending to be a fucking expert on Saturn and William Herschel, and an expert on lying. But hey, as a flat earther you do have first hand experience in lying, don't you? So I can see why you may think yourself suitably qualified an expert on lying.