ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist

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Mikey T.

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1830 on: May 04, 2021, 10:52:17 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic
Quote from: JackBlack
Quote from: JackBlack
Why do 2 objects of the same volume but different mass behave so differently?
Also give me an example of this one so, again, we know we are on the same page.
A solid 1 lead sphere vs a hollow paper sphere, where the radius of the 2 spheres are equal.
For a less dramatic comparison you could replace the paper sphere with a balsawood sphere.
Then you have totally different masses and totally different volumes.
So scepti doesn't know what volume means.
2 spheres of equal radius have the same volume, genius.
I know what volume is with my theory.
You appear not to.
So volume in your fantasy is not volume in reality.  Makes sense. 

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JackBlack

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1831 on: May 04, 2021, 03:38:20 PM »
I noticed you skipped over the pressure gradient.

Again, for a simple case of a helium filled balloon or a gas tank, we clearly observe the high pressure fluid pushing the low pressure fluid out of the way to remove the pressure gradient.
The only time we observe a pressure gradient which is stable is in the pressure gradient due to gravity or due to acceleration of a system, and in both cases the pressure gradient is then proportional to the density of the fluid.
Why? Without gravity, what is causing this vertical pressure gradient to be stable?
Why doesn't the high pressure fluid push the low pressure fluid until the pressure is equal?

Likewise, you also skipped over why the air pushes things down in the first place.
Again, if it is crushing it, it crushes inwards, not down.
You have no justification for why it should be pushed down.
Instead you just deflect to the object magically pushing up for no reason, but what is causing the object to push up, especially it being up rather than just outwards, and especially if this object has fallen at all which means it is pushing down from above.

And likewise, you haven't explained what then magically causes it to push some objects up.

You pretend that you will answer the questions, continually providing non-answers, until you can't think of any more excuses, and then you just ignore them.
The questions are still there. They are still unanswered.

Why density?
Why not just mass?
Mass is density. Dense mass.
There you go ignoring the meaning of more words.
Mass is not density.
Mass is an extensive property based upon how much of the substance there is.
Density is an intensive property, which is the same regardless of how much you have (note some things, like air, will have a density that varies with altitude).

It doesn't matter if you have 1 kg or 2 kg of steel, the density is the same, but the mass is different.

On the basis of that, rather than your own pretend definitions, address the issues raised.
Gravity explains it just fine with a fundamentally different force causing things to fall to the force of the air resisting that falling.
But you want to claim that it is the same.
So address why these sets of objects behave so differently.



It depends on the area of dense masses.
No, it depends on the material properties of the object which do not depend on mass or density.
There are some very light weight materials which are incredibly strong, and some quite dense materials which are much weaker.

The only difference would be the resistance of it against both by area, meaning drop the sheet flat out against dropping the ball and the ball overcomes resistance much easier.
Which also means it would be much easier for the ball to overcome the air pushing down, so it should be pushed down less than the flat sheet.
Again, this is one of the massive issues you can't explain.

Again, with gravity, having a force act directly on the mass to move the object down, while air then acts on the surface of the object, this makes perfect sense.
But with your nonsense of the air doing both, you have no justification for why the air seems to push down on both objects the same, but then resists that downwards motion so vastly different between the objects.

It would still fall faster because the feather has a lot of area against below resistance.
Which also means it has a lot of area against the air pushing it down.
Again, why the massive difference in behviour?
You claim the air pushes the object down, and the air is resisting it.

Then you have totally different masses and totally different volumes.
No, we have the same volume due to the same radius.
I don't care if you want to accept the actual definition of words, or want to make up your own and pretend it is some property other than volume which is the same.
Deal with the issue rather than trying to escape it due to semantics.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1832 on: May 04, 2021, 09:15:05 PM »

So volume in your fantasy is not volume in reality.  Makes sense.
Volume is what a mass holds within it, whether it's a closed box or a cube that holds atmosphere within its porous inner, it's all volume.


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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1833 on: May 04, 2021, 11:05:24 PM »
I noticed you skipped over the pressure gradient.

Again, for a simple case of a helium filled balloon or a gas tank, we clearly observe the high pressure fluid pushing the low pressure fluid out of the way to remove the pressure gradient.

You're never removing any pressure gradient, you're just changing it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1834 on: May 04, 2021, 11:06:36 PM »

So volume in your fantasy is not volume in reality.  Makes sense.
Volume is what a mass holds within it, whether it's a closed box or a cube that holds atmosphere within its porous inner, it's all volume.
So is it possible in your fantasy to calculate an objects volume?
For example what is the volume of a cube with sides of 1ft length?
What difference does it make? We aren't arguing calculating volumes, so what purpose has this got?

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1835 on: May 05, 2021, 12:38:45 AM »

So volume in your fantasy is not volume in reality.  Makes sense.
Volume is what a mass holds within it, whether it's a closed box or a cube that holds atmosphere within its porous inner, it's all volume.
So is it possible in your fantasy to calculate an objects volume?
For example what is the volume of a cube with sides of 1ft length?
What difference does it make? We aren't arguing calculating volumes, so what purpose has this got?
You claim that two objects of the same dimensions have differing volumes. So I ask how you would calculate the volume, seems a reasonable question to me.
If a cube of solid lead and sides of 1ft length has a volume of 1 cubic feet. Does a cube of balsa wood of 1ft length also have a volume of 1 cubic foot?
None of them do.
They both have a visual area of 1 cubic foot.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1836 on: May 05, 2021, 01:10:28 AM »

So volume in your fantasy is not volume in reality.  Makes sense.
Volume is what a mass holds within it, whether it's a closed box or a cube that holds atmosphere within its porous inner, it's all volume.
So is it possible in your fantasy to calculate an objects volume?
For example what is the volume of a cube with sides of 1ft length?
What difference does it make? We aren't arguing calculating volumes, so what purpose has this got?
You claim that two objects of the same dimensions have differing volumes. So I ask how you would calculate the volume, seems a reasonable question to me.
If a cube of solid lead and sides of 1ft length has a volume of 1 cubic feet. Does a cube of balsa wood of 1ft length also have a volume of 1 cubic foot?
None of them do.
They both have a visual area of 1 cubic foot.
WTF is visual area? Area is only 2 dimensions. Do you think that everything is flat?
If they don't have a volume of 1 cubic foot, what is their volume? How do you calculate it?

What is the 'visual area' of a solid block 1ft high, 2ft wide and 3ft long?
What do you think you'll get out of this carry on?

Try and understand my side and if you can't then sit and watch until you do and if you can't, then just sit back.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1837 on: May 05, 2021, 01:24:59 AM »

I am trying to understand your side, but you are unable to explain your side.

I asked about what I don't understand and you just burst into tears with an angry frenzy of 'Don't ask me questions I can't answer', because I'm making you look the fool.
You're not trying to understand anything and also you could never make me look a fool. You can believe you do and are welcome to that...but...as for me, I just smile at your typing when you resort to this gunk.

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Mikey T.

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1838 on: May 05, 2021, 02:01:29 AM »

So volume in your fantasy is not volume in reality.  Makes sense.
Volume is what a mass holds within it, whether it's a closed box or a cube that holds atmosphere within its porous inner, it's all volume.
Volume is the area of a 3 dimensional object.  It doesn't have to have any mass in it.  It is the space that is occupied by that object.  Density is how much mass is in that volume.  Volume does not need mass.  Mass needs volume outside a singularity.  Just because something is more dense doesn't mean it has more volume.  Like Jack asked, two spheres, both with the same radius, one solid lead and the other is solid wood.  Do you still disagree that they have the same volume but different mass therefore different densities?

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JackBlack

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1839 on: May 05, 2021, 02:13:10 AM »
I noticed you skipped over the pressure gradient.
Again, for a simple case of a helium filled balloon or a gas tank, we clearly observe the high pressure fluid pushing the low pressure fluid out of the way to remove the pressure gradient.
You're never removing any pressure gradient, you're just changing it.
The air removes it.
Now stop avoiding the questions and answer them.
And that also means stop with the pathetic semantics as well.

Again, by what magic does your magical air magically maintain a magical pressure gradient?
By what magic does this magical air of yours magically make the pressure gradient proportional to weight of the fluid?
By what magic does this magical air magically stop the magical high pressure region from decompressing and pushing up the low pressure region above?
By what magic does the magical low pressure air above magically push down an object into a much greater force/resistance of the magical high pressure below?
By what magic does this magical air then magically decide to magically push up some objects instead of magically pushing them down?
By what magic does the air push things down and then resist that downwards motion so differently?

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1840 on: May 05, 2021, 02:17:36 AM »

You're correct about one thing. You don't need me to make you look a fool.
You are correct in that assumption.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1841 on: May 05, 2021, 02:25:03 AM »

So volume in your fantasy is not volume in reality.  Makes sense.
Volume is what a mass holds within it, whether it's a closed box or a cube that holds atmosphere within its porous inner, it's all volume.
Volume is the area of a 3 dimensional object.  It doesn't have to have any mass in it.  It is the space that is occupied by that object.  Density is how much mass is in that volume.  Volume does not need mass.  Mass needs volume outside a singularity.  Just because something is more dense doesn't mean it has more volume.  Like Jack asked, two spheres, both with the same radius, one solid lead and the other is solid wood.  Do you still disagree that they have the same volume but different mass therefore different densities?
Well, let me tell you where I'm at with my theory and how and why it works for me.

Mass is the amount of structure in any object.
Density is the amount of structure that can displace atmosphere. Essentially dense mass is the structure, which is why I use the two words together, because they essentially mean the same.
Some masses are more dense than others but both are dense mass.

Volume is atmosphere that the dense mass holds within it, that makes up its visual size of structure of dense mass.


By all means have a pop but you won't get it from my side by doing so.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1842 on: May 05, 2021, 02:27:02 AM »
I noticed you skipped over the pressure gradient.
Again, for a simple case of a helium filled balloon or a gas tank, we clearly observe the high pressure fluid pushing the low pressure fluid out of the way to remove the pressure gradient.
You're never removing any pressure gradient, you're just changing it.
The air removes it.

The air can only change it, not remove it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1843 on: May 05, 2021, 02:51:48 AM »

Nobody wants or needs to get it from your side, your side is wrong and mostly contradicts itself and reality.
Then don't take up your time trying to correspond to me.
Just sit there and back up those that do and you can pipe in with things like "yeah" and " good on you (insert favourite forum name(s)" to back slap....).

Quote from: Bored
Physics, Maths, Geometry and even the English language all work absolutely fine as they are. We don't need your fantasy, it has no application in the real world.
What is the real world in which this is applicable?


Quote from: Bored
Builders use volume to estimate material required and it works fine despite you claiming they are all doing it wrong.
Why are they doing it wrong?
What are they calculating?


Quote from: Bored
Real world engineers use real world engineering and it works fine despite you claiming they are all doing it wrong.
I'm not claiming anyone is doing anything wrong with how they work in the real world, which is the one we all live in.


 
Quote from: Bored
Aircraft designers design aircraft despite you claiming you are the only person in the world who knows how they fly.
Nooo, not at all. I believe plenty know how they fly but we aren't told the entire truth on it all because certain things are substituted for fictional forces. Gravity being one.



Quote from: Bored
What have you ever achieved?
Whatever you feel I've achieved. If you think that's nothing, then there's the answer that suits you.
And you're very welcome to that.


Quote from: Bored
What is your benefit to society?
As much or as little as you think it is.
You require pacifying, so pacify yourself with a thought that I don't benefit society, at all..... and you can go about your life with more ease and less strain.


Quote from: Bored
Your not even entertaining, you just spout the same BS over and over like a broken record.
Then I suggest you lift up the needle and get out of the sticking groove. Do not ride it.
That's the best advice I can give you and I think you should take it.....but, it is obviously your choice.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 02:54:51 AM by sceptimatic »

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1844 on: May 05, 2021, 03:14:53 AM »
Two questions.

1. Do you believe the so called peer reviewed stuff and why?

2. Can you stand up and claim any of them as fact, if you were in a law court?
1.  It's not "so called peer reviewed stuff".  It's testable and repeatable...you know, actual science.  And, I don't believe it.  I know it to be a fact.
If you know it to be a fact then you can explain how you proved it to be so....right?




Quote from: MicroBeta

2.  I won't have to so the question is irrelevant.
Correct, you don't have to prove it in a law court...but if you were subpoenaed to give proof of what you claim as fact, could you do it and if so, how..... and if not, why?

Quote from: MicroBeta

Not, stop Strawmaning the shit out of the...or is is an Avoiding The Issue logical fallacy.  I'm honestly not sure which applies but one thing's for sure...you're obfuscating.
Nahhh, I'm not obfuscating. What I am doing is putting you in a corner and you are trying to find a way of getting out of it.
Let's do it this way. 

These studies provides all the conditions, assumptions, equipment used, data collected, analysis techniques used, summary of results, conclusions, and citations to the sources for information/data used.

With everything you need already contained in the information that you asked for, why is the onus now on me to break it down for you?

Mike
The onus isn't on you to break it down.
I asked you two simple questions.

1. Do you believe the so called peer reviewed stuff and why?

You answer was: 1. It's not "so called peer reviewed stuff".  It's testable and repeatable...you know, actual science.  And, I don't believe it.  I know it to be a fact.
I then asked you: If you know it to be a fact then you can explain how you proved it to be so....right?



2. Can you stand up and claim any of them as fact, if you were in a law court?

You answered: 2.  I won't have to so the question is irrelevant.


I then went on to say:
Correct, you don't have to prove it in a law court...but if you were subpoenaed to give proof of what you claim as fact, could you do it and if so, how..... and if not, why?




So. basically you can refuse to answer and refuse to prove what you know to be factual but then again it just sets you right back into a corner where you cannot reason your way out of.


You don't know any facts.
What you do know is, you rely on papers that claim facts and accept them as your facts, without physical proof and absolutely without the ability to put anything in front of anyone to show your side to be correct.

If you want to argue that you are stating facts and you could supply those facts to a court of law, if asked to do so, then surely you would be only too happy to lay them out on here and shut me up.....right?
Yes.  I do refuse and I'll tell you why.  One of your most well-known tactics is comments similar to "you don't know", "you just believe", “you haven’t done it yourself”; usually followed by some form of “you only have faith without evidence” kind of statement. 

The whole goal here is to discredit the person making the argument rather than the argument itself.  It's called an Appeal to Accomplishment logical fallacy.  And, it is your primary go to reply in every single discussion.  Your scripted narrative is designed to NEVER address any argument presented.  You always make it about the person making the argument and never, ever the argument itself.  I refuse to play your game.

The simple fact is, when I brought up peer reviewed published research you said "Name one.".  I named 7 and provided links to the sources for all of them.  I literally answered the question you asked and proved that such peer reviewed data exists.  But rather than concede it exists, you jump right into your script.

Here’s the thing though.  In a court of law, peer reviewed, published data like this would be considered prima facie evidence.  You can’t allow that because you know you have no answers for any of it.  Here’s a clue for you...your personal incredulity is not a valid argument. 

So, your only options to accept the data, refute the data, or ignore the data...and everyone reading this knows which you’ll do.  Rejecting it because you don’t believe is on you but don’t put the burden on me to justify your Argument From Incredulity because it’s not going to happen. 

On a side note:  Let me be clear on one thing.  I will never, and nobody should ever have to, reanalyze, reperform, rehash, or otherwise justify peer reviewed, properly published, and accepted research.  It stands on its own merit.  That is literally the whole point of the peer review process.  Once presented the burden is on you; not me and all your handwaving word salad isn’t going to change that.

Accept, refute, ignore...those are your only options.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82˘ to produce a penny, putting in your 2˘ if really worth 3.64˘.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1845 on: May 05, 2021, 03:32:47 AM »
Quote from: JackBlack
Quote from: JackBlack
Why do 2 objects of the same volume but different mass behave so differently?
Also give me an example of this one so, again, we know we are on the same page.
A solid 1 lead sphere vs a hollow paper sphere, where the radius of the 2 spheres are equal.
For a less dramatic comparison you could replace the paper sphere with a balsawood sphere.
Then you have totally different masses and totally different volumes.
And, you cannot provide anything close to a verifiable technical rationale to support this nonsense.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82˘ to produce a penny, putting in your 2˘ if really worth 3.64˘.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1846 on: May 05, 2021, 03:57:44 AM »

Yes.  I do refuse and I'll tell you why.  One of your most well-known tactics is comments similar to "you don't know", "you just believe", “you haven’t done it yourself”; usually followed by some form of “you only have faith without evidence” kind of statement.
Seeing as you brought this up. Do you know the facts to what I'm arguing against?
Have you performed experiments yourself that you can claim as fact and actually back that claim up?
Or do you just believe what you're told because you trusted in authority/official lines?

It's not a tactic, it's a genuine ask and I think I'm entitled to ask.
You are certainly not obliged to answer but by not answering you leave the questions open.

 
Quote from: MicroBeta
The whole goal here is to discredit the person making the argument rather than the argument itself.
The whole goal is to get some real proof. If you have it then shut me up. If you haven't got it then your reliance is upon those who you believe do have it and yet you have not seen it to verify the truth of it.


Quote from: MicroBeta
  It's called an Appeal to Accomplishment logical fallacy.
It's call an appeal for truthful and provable answers or truthful answers that the proof does not exist...only theory and pseudoscience.....etc.


Quote from: MicroBeta
And, it is your primary go to reply in every single discussion.  Your scripted narrative is designed to NEVER address any argument presented.
That depends on how you want to see it.
It seems to me the primary goals of people like yourself are to dismiss questions that ask for your proof and answer those questions by using massive appeals to authority.


Quote from: MicroBeta
  You always make it about the person making the argument and never, ever the argument itself.  I refuse to play your game.
If you spout off facts and I asked for proof from you, then yes, it is about you and your argument with me.
As for refusing to play my game. There is no game but that's something people like you use to try and slither away from the issues, which you're well entitled to do but it gives you no credence with me.


Quote from: MicroBeta
The simple fact is, when I brought up peer reviewed published research you said "Name one.".  I named 7 and provided links to the sources for all of them.  I literally answered the question you asked and proved that such peer reviewed data exists.  But rather than concede it exists, you jump right into your script.
I didn't deny you brought up what I asked for.

I simply further questioned and asked how you know they're a proof. That's it.

I expected you to come back with reasons why you know those peer reviews are based on fact. You seem to not have an answer.



Quote from: MicroBeta
Here’s the thing though.  In a court of law, peer reviewed, published data like this would be considered prima facie evidence.
No doubt...but then again the testimony of 10 police officers who saw a man kill someone, even if the man was innocent, will gain the required result in the innocent man going to prison for life.

However, in a legitimate fair hearing, me against the peers. I ask for proof.
The court will require those peers to put forward that truth.
That's when the issues really start, because that proof has to be provided, physically to the court.

Could you provide it to a court of their behalf, as a sort of guarantor of truth?



Quote from: MicroBeta
  You can’t allow that because you know you have no answers for any of it.  Here’s a clue for you...your personal incredulity is not a valid argument. 
It is if no proof is provided to shut it down.


Quote from: MicroBeta
So, your only options to accept the data, refute the data, or ignore the data...and everyone reading this knows which you’ll do.
You missed one. Question the data and ask for proof that the data shows realism.


Quote from: MicroBeta
  Rejecting it because you don’t believe is on you but don’t put the burden on me to justify your Argument From Incredulity because it’s not going to happen.
There is no burden on you. You are under no obligation to answer anything I ask. You are under no obligation to type one word to me but you feel you have to.
If you can provide proof then let's see it. If you can't, then there's nothing you've achieved. You've strengthened my hand from my side, regardless of what you think, from your side.

 
Quote from: MicroBeta
On a side note:  Let me be clear on one thing.  I will never, and nobody should ever have to, reanalyze, reperform, rehash, or otherwise justify peer reviewed, properly published, and accepted research.  It stands on its own merit.  That is literally the whole point of the peer review process.  Once presented the burden is on you; not me and all your handwaving word salad isn’t going to change that.

I believe you do need to justify peer reviewed data if you're going to hand it out as  being a purveyor of facts.
Otherwise you're just arguing by simple appeals to your believed authority.



Quote from: MicroBeta
Accept, refute, ignore...those are your only options.

Mike
Don't  forget the 4th one.

QUESTION.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 04:07:11 AM by sceptimatic »

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1847 on: May 05, 2021, 04:05:47 AM »
Quote from: JackBlack
Quote from: JackBlack
Why do 2 objects of the same volume but different mass behave so differently?
Also give me an example of this one so, again, we know we are on the same page.
A solid 1 lead sphere vs a hollow paper sphere, where the radius of the 2 spheres are equal.
For a less dramatic comparison you could replace the paper sphere with a balsawood sphere.
Then you have totally different masses and totally different volumes.
And, you cannot provide anything close to a verifiable technical rationale to support this nonsense.

Mike
Pretty simple, really, for many objects when looked at in closer detail.
Some are observable by eye.
Soooooo.......yes.....I.....can.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1848 on: May 05, 2021, 05:30:18 AM »
I believe you do need to justify peer reviewed data if you're going to hand it out as  being a purveyor of facts.
Otherwise you're just arguing by simple appeals to your believed authority.



You're correct about one thing. You don't need me to make you look a fool.
You are correct in that assumption.


The experiments are also repeatable.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1849 on: May 05, 2021, 06:45:51 AM »

Accept, refute, ignore...those are your only options.

Mike
Don't  forget the 4th one.

QUESTION.
Of course, you can question the data.  I expect you to question the data otherwise what's the point of the discussion?   

As I said, peer reviewed, published data stands on it's own merit so if have a question about something specific ask and if I can, I'll reply.  If I can't answer I'll tell you.  However, asking me to explain hundreds of pages to you is not questioning the data.  That's laziness on your part which also fits you scripted narrative of discrediting the person not the argument.
Since it costs 1.82˘ to produce a penny, putting in your 2˘ if really worth 3.64˘.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1850 on: May 05, 2021, 07:03:42 AM »

On a side note:  Let me be clear on one thing.  I will never, and nobody should ever have to, reanalyze, reperform, rehash, or otherwise justify peer reviewed, properly published, and accepted research.  It stands on its own merit.  That is literally the whole point of the peer review process.  Once presented the burden is on you; not me and all your handwaving word salad isn’t going to change that.

I believe you do need to justify peer reviewed data if you're going to hand it out as  being a purveyor of facts.
Otherwise you're just arguing by simple appeals to your believed authority.
What part about peer reviewed stands on it's own merit don't you understand? 

Let me help you out.  Peer reviewed literally, and literally is not an exaggeration here, ...literally means it has already been justified to the peers in that field and accepted by the discipline as a whole. 

So, unless you are an accepted expert in that field you are not entitled to any further justification than that.  And, if you were an expert in that field you would take your concerns the authors of that paper.  No matter how much you want it to conform to your personal whims, that is how science works.  IOW, you don't get to make your own rules and expect everyone to follow them.

And, let me explain how burden works.  When something stands on it's own merit, in order to shift the burden you MUST have a reasonable testable counter argument.  That does NOT mean asking for justification for what has already been justified.
Since it costs 1.82˘ to produce a penny, putting in your 2˘ if really worth 3.64˘.

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sceptimatic

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Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1851 on: May 05, 2021, 07:18:48 AM »

Accept, refute, ignore...those are your only options.

Mike
Don't  forget the 4th one.

QUESTION.
Of course, you can question the data.  I expect you to question the data otherwise what's the point of the discussion?   

As I said, peer reviewed, published data stands on it's own merit so if have a question about something specific ask and if I can, I'll reply.  If I can't answer I'll tell you.  However, asking me to explain hundreds of pages to you is not questioning the data.  That's laziness on your part which also fits you scripted narrative of discrediting the person not the argument.
I'm not asking you to explain hundreds of pages of anything to me.
I asked you if you can verify the peer review in terms of showing me the facts.
After all, you do believe they're facts, right?

If that's the case you must be able to show me they are.

Or....
Are you simply accepting them as facts but have no proof of them being facts?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1852 on: May 05, 2021, 07:31:41 AM »

On a side note:  Let me be clear on one thing.  I will never, and nobody should ever have to, reanalyze, reperform, rehash, or otherwise justify peer reviewed, properly published, and accepted research.  It stands on its own merit.  That is literally the whole point of the peer review process.  Once presented the burden is on you; not me and all your handwaving word salad isn’t going to change that.

I believe you do need to justify peer reviewed data if you're going to hand it out as  being a purveyor of facts.
Otherwise you're just arguing by simple appeals to your believed authority.
What part about peer reviewed stands on it's own merit don't you understand? 
The bit where there is no facts shown.
Standing on its own merit means nothing other than a group of  people have decided this is their truth.



Quote from: MicroBeta
Let me help you out.  Peer reviewed literally, and literally is not an exaggeration here, ...literally means it has already been justified to the peers in that field and accepted by the discipline as a whole.
Justified by who? Experts?
Experts in what?
If they're experts then they would have zero problems with showing the truth.
There has been none and all you're doing is trying to tell me there are facts, yet you know you can't back that up.


 
Quote from: MicroBeta
So, unless you are an accepted expert in that field you are not entitled to any further justification than that.
I'm entitled to ask for the facts and if I don't get them, I'm entitled to carry on calling it out.


Quote from: MicroBeta
  And, if you were an expert in that field you would take your concerns the authors of that paper.
An expert is what field? Bullcrap?
If the so called experts in their field had the facts, they would lay them out. How come they never do?
Quote from: MicroBeta
  No matter how much you want it to conform to your personal whims, that is how science works.
Your right, that's not how science works.
Science works on legitimate end products from theory to fact.
This is pseudoscience and I'm being kind in saying that.


Quote from: MicroBeta
  IOW, you don't get to make your own rules and expect everyone to follow them.
Nobody has to follow anything I say and as for rules. I make my own to my own theories and if anyone wants to understand them they have to follow them or struggle to understand them.
Pretty simple.


Quote from: MicroBeta
And, let me explain how burden works.  When something stands on it's own merit, in order to shift the burden you MUST have a reasonable testable counter argument.
I do.
I know the Earth is not a spinning globe and water level nails it as just one counter.
Because of that, the dominoes start to fall with everything used to back up the so called spinning ball in so called space.




Quote from: MicroBeta
  That does NOT mean asking for justification for what has already been justified.
It hasn't been justified. It's been more of bullified into people. Accept it or else you are a tin foil hat nutter and everyone will jump on that bandwagon and make you conform.

What a crock of karap.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1853 on: May 05, 2021, 08:41:15 AM »

Accept, refute, ignore...those are your only options.

Mike
Don't  forget the 4th one.

QUESTION.
Of course, you can question the data.  I expect you to question the data otherwise what's the point of the discussion?   

As I said, peer reviewed, published data stands on it's own merit so if have a question about something specific ask and if I can, I'll reply.  If I can't answer I'll tell you.  However, asking me to explain hundreds of pages to you is not questioning the data.  That's laziness on your part which also fits you scripted narrative of discrediting the person not the argument.
I'm not asking you to explain hundreds of pages of anything to me.
I asked you if you can verify the peer review in terms of showing me the facts.
After all, you do believe they're facts, right?

If that's the case you must be able to show me they are.

Or....
Are you simply accepting them as facts but have no proof of them being facts?

yes
fact, north hem stars make a pattern vs south hem stars and ships disappear bottom up, not lightondark compression.

your opinion and word salads are meaningless.

if you want, prove these wrong
draw the triange and the circle
show us the massive tilt

draw how light reaches the eye from the far away horizon and how someone at ground level sees differently from someone 100ft up in the air.
draw it
draw what the air is doing to the light
teach us something

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1854 on: May 05, 2021, 08:53:46 AM »

Accept, refute, ignore...those are your only options.

Mike
Don't  forget the 4th one.

QUESTION.
Of course, you can question the data.  I expect you to question the data otherwise what's the point of the discussion?   

As I said, peer reviewed, published data stands on it's own merit so if have a question about something specific ask and if I can, I'll reply.  If I can't answer I'll tell you.  However, asking me to explain hundreds of pages to you is not questioning the data.  That's laziness on your part which also fits you scripted narrative of discrediting the person not the argument.
I'm not asking you to explain hundreds of pages of anything to me.
I asked you if you can verify the peer review in terms of showing me the facts.
After all, you do believe they're facts, right?

If that's the case you must be able to show me they are.

Or....
Are you simply accepting them as facts but have no proof of them being facts?

yes
fact, north hem stars make a pattern vs south hem stars and ships disappear bottom up, not lightondark compression.

your opinion and word salads are meaningless.

if you want, prove these wrong
draw the triange and the circle
show us the massive tilt

draw how light reaches the eye from the far away horizon and how someone at ground level sees differently from someone 100ft up in the air.
draw it
draw what the air is doing to the light
teach us something
I can't teach you anything.
Your mind is made up and I accept that.


My mind is made up and you'll have to accept that.

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 8548
  • Flat like a droplet of water.
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1855 on: May 05, 2021, 09:04:36 AM »

Volume is atmosphere that the dense mass holds within it, that makes up its visual size of structure of dense mass.



So if an object has a volume of 1 cubic inch, there is a cubic inch of atmosphere within the object? 
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1856 on: May 05, 2021, 09:41:13 AM »

Volume is atmosphere that the dense mass holds within it, that makes up its visual size of structure of dense mass.



So if an object has a volume of 1 cubic inch, there is a cubic inch of atmosphere within the object?
Let's make this a bit clearer.

If you had an empty box and the empty part of the box was a cubic inch, foot, metre or whatever, then the volume of that box would be 1 cubic inch, foot, metre or whatever.

However, you then have the structure of the box itself which holds volume within that.

Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1857 on: May 05, 2021, 09:56:29 AM »

Accept, refute, ignore...those are your only options.

Mike
Don't  forget the 4th one.

QUESTION.
Of course, you can question the data.  I expect you to question the data otherwise what's the point of the discussion?   

As I said, peer reviewed, published data stands on it's own merit so if have a question about something specific ask and if I can, I'll reply.  If I can't answer I'll tell you.  However, asking me to explain hundreds of pages to you is not questioning the data.  That's laziness on your part which also fits you scripted narrative of discrediting the person not the argument.
I'm not asking you to explain hundreds of pages of anything to me.
I asked you if you can verify the peer review in terms of showing me the facts.
After all, you do believe they're facts, right?

If that's the case you must be able to show me they are.

Or....
Are you simply accepting them as facts but have no proof of them being facts?

yes
fact, north hem stars make a pattern vs south hem stars and ships disappear bottom up, not lightondark compression.

your opinion and word salads are meaningless.

if you want, prove these wrong
draw the triange and the circle
show us the massive tilt

draw how light reaches the eye from the far away horizon and how someone at ground level sees differently from someone 100ft up in the air.
draw it
draw what the air is doing to the light
teach us something
I can't teach you anything.
Your mind is made up and I accept that.


My mind is made up and you'll have to accept that.

nothing can be taught whne you refuse to provide answers

nice attempt at a cop out

admit you can't draw a basic diagram that shows off your theory or shows the globe eareth to be inaccurate

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 8548
  • Flat like a droplet of water.
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1858 on: May 05, 2021, 04:28:56 PM »

Volume is atmosphere that the dense mass holds within it, that makes up its visual size of structure of dense mass.



So if an object has a volume of 1 cubic inch, there is a cubic inch of atmosphere within the object?
Let's make this a bit clearer.

If you had an empty box and the empty part of the box was a cubic inch, foot, metre or whatever, then the volume of that box would be 1 cubic inch, foot, metre or whatever.

However, you then have the structure of the box itself which holds volume within that.

So if I have a a cube of lead  measuring 1 inch x 1 inch x 1 inch.  How much atmosphere is in it?
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

*

JackBlack

  • 21900
Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« Reply #1859 on: May 05, 2021, 05:00:46 PM »
I noticed you skipped over the pressure gradient.
Again, for a simple case of a helium filled balloon or a gas tank, we clearly observe the high pressure fluid pushing the low pressure fluid out of the way to remove the pressure gradient.
You're never removing any pressure gradient, you're just changing it.
The air removes it.
The air can only change it, not remove it.
And if the air "changes it" to get it to 0, that is removing it.

Again, stop with the pathetic semantics and address the issues with the nonsense you claim is a viable alternative to gravity.

Again, by what magic does your magical air magically maintain a magical pressure gradient?
By what magic does this magical air of yours magically make the pressure gradient proportional to weight of the fluid?
By what magic does this magical air magically stop the magical high pressure region from decompressing and pushing up the low pressure region above?
By what magic does the magical low pressure air above magically push down an object into a much greater force/resistance of the magical high pressure below?
By what magic does this magical air then magically decide to magically push up some objects instead of magically pushing them down?
By what magic does the air push things down and then resist that downwards motion so differently?