ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist

Sceptimatic goes on and on about how when we say we know something we mean we are 'accepting' what we are told rather than working it out for ourselves.  But the volume of knowledge we have as human beings now is way beyond what one person can find out for themselves during an average lifetime.

So if we take on the 'I am not going to simply accept everything we are told' mindset then how are we supposed to learn what we cannot find out for ourselves? For example we are told that mountains are geological features that form over millions of years.  I cannot prove that to myself so am I simply supposed to conclude that it is impossible to find out how mountains form?  Am I supposed to conclude that my teacher has just made it up and the person that explained it to him made it up and the person who told them also made it all up? 

Mountains we are told are a product of plate tectonics.  The movement of the geological plates that make up the Earth.  Mountains are produced when these plates rub up against each other.  One of the driving forces behind plate tectonics is gravity.  But gravity doesn't exist according to Sceptimatic so he will have to re-invent the whole process so mountains can form without gravity.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-causes-tectonic-plates-to-move.html

Quote from: sobchak on March 09, 2021, 09:03:36 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 09, 2021, 08:30:13 AM

Quote from: sobchak on March 09, 2021, 08:10:06 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 09, 2021, 07:55:46 AM

Quote from: sobchak on March 09, 2021, 07:06:39 AM

Okay, lets get back to your concept of magnetism then!

I read carefully everything you said,  and I am wondering if my understanding of your concept correct -

There is atmosphere consisting of molecules around the magnet.  Degraded bits of these atmospheric molecules (like hydrogen), get pushed through the structure of the magnet.  They go in one side and are pushed out the other side (from high to low back to high pressure), then circle back along the sides of the magnet in order to go back into the magnet in a loop. 

Is this right?  If not, can you clarify to make it so?

Sort of, yes.

Only sort of?  What is wrong and what is right?  Can you say simply and clearly so I dont only have a partial understanding?

I said you're sort of on the right path.
Just go along with that.

Okay.  So there is a flow of broken down atmospheric molecules through the solid metal magnet, in one side and out the other and looping back around.  What does this do to give my little magnet its interesting properties?

It creates pressure differences through friction/vibration.

So one side of the magnet has high pressure and the other has low pressure? 

It creates pressure differences through friction/vibration.

So why do only certain materials create the effect that we describe as magnetism while others do not?

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 09, 2021, 07:48:26 AM

Quote from: sokarul on March 09, 2021, 03:59:13 AM

While you wait for a response why not explain how an atom, which is measured in the nanometer range, can expand to be meters in size.

It can't.

Glad you gave up on that stupid idea. Imagine atoms having to expand to fill in all gaps. Just stupid.

Yep, no molecule is going to expand to a metre.

ATMO

SPHERE


The spherical shell comprised of gases that surrounds a planet.

Gases.
There's a whole host of gases.

Maybe define atmospherec pressure vs air pressure

You appear to be using different words again

Is hydrogen in the atmosphere?
What about a host of other gases which are broken down?
Electrolysis.

I don't need to go on.

Sceptimatic goes on and on about how when we say we know something we mean we are 'accepting' what we are told rather than working it out for ourselves.  But the volume of knowledge we have as human beings now is way beyond what one person can find out for themselves during an average lifetime.

So if we take on the 'I am not going to simply accept everything we are told' mindset then how are we supposed to learn what we cannot find out for ourselves? For example we are told that mountains are geological features that form over millions of years.  I cannot prove that to myself so am I simply supposed to conclude that it is impossible to find out how mountains form?  Am I supposed to conclude that my teacher has just made it up and the person that explained it to him made it up and the person who told them also made it all up? 

Mountains we are told are a product of plate tectonics.  The movement of the geological plates that make up the Earth.  Mountains are produced when these plates rub up against each other.  One of the driving forces behind plate tectonics is gravity.  But gravity doesn't exist according to Sceptimatic so he will have to re-invent the whole process so mountains can form without gravity.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-causes-tectonic-plates-to-move.html

Your Earthquakes are decaying movement.

So one side of the magnet has high pressure and the other has low pressure?

Yes.

Quote

It creates pressure differences through friction/vibration.

So why do only certain materials create the effect that we describe as magnetism while others do not?

The material that makes them up.
Why does a tube allow the same liquid through at the same pace?
Why does a funnel take in a lot of water but channels it out slower?
Why does a sieve hold a lot of stuff going in but takes time to release it?


Have a think on it.

Quote from: sobchak on March 10, 2021, 05:23:43 AM

So one side of the magnet has high pressure and the other has low pressure?

Yes.

Great, thanks for clarifying.  Can you explain a little more how these high and low pressures interact with other objects around them? 

Also, so in your model, atmosphere can flow from low to high pressure? 

The material that makes them up.

What about it?  That doesn't explain anything about why some materials are magnetic while others are not.  What is different about the structure of the material that is magnetic compared to that which isn't?

Why does a funnel take in a lot of water but channels it out slower?

Wide aperture in, narrow aperture out.  Affects the flow rate per unit time.

Your Earthquakes are decaying movement.

What is causing the decay?

Electrolysis.

And how does that happen in the atmosphere then?  Explain.  How does electrolysis happen naturally?

Is hydrogen in the atmosphere?

Well is it?

Quote from: JackBlack on March 10, 2021, 01:43:01 AM

And yet again avoid the issue of polarity which shows your model is garbage.

Do you even know what polarity is?

Yes, as clearly explained in the below quoted post that you continue to ignore as it shows your model simply cannot match reality as air cannot explain the polarity of magnets.

Again, the simple version is that magnets have 2 poles, N and S. Like poles repel, opposite poles attract.
But your air nonsense instead requires an attractive pole and a repulsive pole, where attractive poles attract and repulsive poles repel.

Simple logic shows that magnets, if they worked like you claim, would function fundamentally differently to how they are observed.
This should be enough to show your "explanation" for how magnets work cannot be correct as it predicts fundamentally different results.
At the very least, it shows there is a fundamental problem with your model of how magnets work.

I am doing my best to understand how magnets work using air, but I find what you say impossible to reconcile with the observed behaviour of magnets.
Simple logic tells me that with a flow of air you have one section flowing outwards, pushing anything there away, and another section flowing inwards, pushing anything towards the magnet.

Even ignoring the the different magnetic properties of materials, this is irreconcilable with the observed interactions of 2 magnets.
The above should result in 2 of these outward flows repelling each other as they push each other away and 2 of the inwards flows attracting each other as the air pushes them towards each other so they "attract" one another.
The more complex way would be if you have an outwards flow and an inward flow. For this I think it would depend upon which flow is stronger, with a weaker overall interaction than the above arrangement.
If the outwards flow is stronger, it should push the other magnet away. If the inwards flow is stronger it should "attract" the other magnet.

This means if you have 2 magnets, with one stronger than the other, when you have them set up to have the 2 inwards flows pointing towards each other, they "attract".
If you turn both magnets around 180 degrees, then the 2 outwards flows are pointing towards each other, they repel.

From either of those set ups, if you turn the weaker magnet, then it would be the same as if you didn't, but with a weaker interaction.
Note that this means if you have it set up with them attracting, and turn both magnets around, it will still repel.

So overall, if you turn both magnets around, you switch between repulsion and attraction.
If you turn a single magnet around, it depends on if you turn around the strong or weak magnet.
Turning around the weak magnet will either weaken or intensify the interaction, turning around the strong magnet switches it like turning around both.

Doing my best to understand, using what you have said and simple logic, that is what your model indicates should happen.
And you are yet to point out any part of that understanding which is wrong.
If you think part of this understanding is wrong, please point out what part you think is wrong and why you think it is wrong, explaining simply how it should work.

The problem comes when you compare this prediction with reality.
In reality, there does not appear to be an attractive and repulsive pole. Instead there appears to be 2 poles, where opposite poles attract and like poles repel.
If you take 2 magnets and put different poles towards each other, they attract. If you turn both around 180 degrees, they still attract. If you turn either magnet around (but not both), then they repel. From this repelling arrangement, if you turn both around, they still repel.

Now care to stop avoiding this issue and either explain how the polarity works with air/atmosphere, or admit air/atmosphere can't explain it?

@solarwind

And how does that happen in the atmosphere then?  Explain.  How does electrolysis happen naturally?

The same way.  Most often it is presumed to be photolysis, but electrolysis undoubtedly occurs as well.

How then is photolysis  related to magnetism? Imagine you are a tutor for a course I am doing and I have asked you to explain it to me. Why does the process of photolysis only create a magnetic effect in certain metals and not others? 

Why not the alignment of certain (iron like) atoms?

How then is photolysis  related to magnetism? Imagine you are a tutor for a course I am doing and I have asked you to explain it to me. Why does the process of photolysis only create a magnetic effect in certain metals and not others? 

Why not the alignment of certain (iron like) atoms?

And why also non-metallic materials (ceramics)?

And if it is photolysis, why call it electrolysis?

Atoms have different electron configurations which gives them unique properties.  So it is entirely reasonable that the electron configurations of certain materials like iron for example, when aligned correctly can produce an effect such as that we recognise as magnetism. other types of atoms cannot be aligned in the same way and so do not produce the effect.  This matches with real world experience.

Also you can get permanent and non-permanent magnets such as electromagnetics.  How is that related to the decay of molecules by light?  You just need a flow of current in a coil to produce the magnetic effect. The current causes the alignment of the atoms. Electricity and magnetism are linked. Nothing to do with light.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 10, 2021, 09:02:05 AM

Quote from: sobchak on March 10, 2021, 05:23:43 AM

So one side of the magnet has high pressure and the other has low pressure?

Yes.

Great, thanks for clarifying.  Can you explain a little more how these high and low pressures interact with other objects around them? 

Also, so in your model, atmosphere can flow from low to high pressure?

Atmosphere doesn't flow in low to high pressure. For that to happen you need to add energy to a lower pressure to push it into higher pressure.

Low pressure is the result of equalised pressure having an energy push which creates a trailing low pressure which is followed by a high pressure push to equalise...and so on.

How then is photolysis  related to magnetism? Imagine you are a tutor for a course I am doing and I have asked you to explain it to me. Why does the process of photolysis only create a magnetic effect in certain metals and not others? 

Why not the alignment of certain (iron like) atoms?

Why does a magic sponge clean stuff much much better than a showering sponge?

Are sponges in any way magnetic?  None that I've ever come across. Mind you imagine how useful that would be in the shower when you drop the soap!

Now back to the topic of magnetism to avoid another classis Sceptimatic deflection when he doesn't know the answers to the questions posted. To be more accurate when he cannot back up any of his claims with any explanations or evidence. In other words it is just what he believes or wants to believe.

Are sponges in any way magnetic?  None that I've ever come across. Mind you imagine how useful that would be in the shower when you drop the soap!

When you start to learn how to put little pieces of jigsaw into the puzzle, you might start understanding how it works.
Hammering them in and thinking they fit is not the way forward and just shows up the inept child like ways of you.

Get back to me when you grow a little.

Quote from: Solarwind on March 11, 2021, 12:12:42 AM

How then is photolysis  related to magnetism? Imagine you are a tutor for a course I am doing and I have asked you to explain it to me. Why does the process of photolysis only create a magnetic effect in certain metals and not others? 

Why not the alignment of certain (iron like) atoms?

Why does a magic sponge clean stuff much much better than a showering sponge?

Why do you need to continue with so many pathetic deflections rather than being honest and just admitting you have no idea how magnets work or why some materials are magnetic?

When you start to learn how to put little pieces of jigsaw into the puzzle, you might start understanding how it works.
Hammering them in and thinking they fit is not the way forward and just shows up the inept child like ways of you.

I did, and showed quite clearly that the pieces don't fit together, that it doesn't work at all.
Your model fails to match reality.
So how about you stop with the hammering and either figure out a way to make it fit without trying to force it in, or you admit that it doesn't fit and that your model and claims don't match reality?

Again, a simple understanding of how you claim magnets work will result in the polarity of magnets being fundamentally different to how they are observed to be in reality.

Until you can address that issue and stop with your childish deflection, no better than sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming crap, don't bother telling others to grow up, because you have a lot of growing up to do.

Quote from: Solarwind on March 11, 2021, 01:18:18 AM

Are sponges in any way magnetic?  None that I've ever come across. Mind you imagine how useful that would be in the shower when you drop the soap!

When you start to learn how to put little pieces of jigsaw into the puzzle, you might start understanding how it works.
Hammering them in and thinking they fit is not the way forward and just shows up the inept child like ways of you.

Get back to me when you grow a little.

Funny you acurately use jigsaw puzzle to describe it.
Each piece is so intricately different that if you tried force a piece in the wrong place, as soon as you start connecting others it obviously fails.
A piece on its own possibly works, but not together.
Youre trying to jam a middle piece where edges go and it stands out like a sore thumb.
Yes, both may be blue, but one is clearly not an edge piece.

Air is a very tangible thing and people have been doing experiemnts with it for 100s of years.
Very well documented experiments

When you start to learn how to put little pieces of jigsaw into the puzzle, you might start understanding how it works.

I have been doing that all through my life and if you want to use jigsaws as an analogy then the one I have based on conventional scientific models seems to fit together very nicely.  It is your jigsaw I am struggling with and as your jigsaw seems to be unique you then are the only one who can help us see the bigger picture. That picture seems to be continuously changing though which must be very confusing for anyone else trying to learn it. So rather than explaining things you just carry on having your little digs as in the comment above which helps no one understand what your jigsaw looks like.

I have yet to understand how air pressure can cause magnetism.  Because everything is surrounded by air, yet only certain materials appear to be magnetic.  How does that work?  What I describe as gravity you also attribute to air pressure.  Air pressure varies from place to place and from time to time.  Yet we don't seem to experience the same variations in what I attribute to gravity.  Enlighten me....

Someone need to do some growing but it ain't me.

Quote from: sobchak on March 10, 2021, 09:08:54 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 10, 2021, 09:02:05 AM

Quote from: sobchak on March 10, 2021, 05:23:43 AM

So one side of the magnet has high pressure and the other has low pressure?

Yes.

Great, thanks for clarifying.  Can you explain a little more how these high and low pressures interact with other objects around them? 

Also, so in your model, atmosphere can flow from low to high pressure?

Atmosphere doesn't flow in low to high pressure. For that to happen you need to add energy to a lower pressure to push it into higher pressure.

Doesn’t your model have atmospheric flow through the magnet, from high pressure on the ‘inlet’ side to low pressure on the ‘outlet’ side?

If not can you clarify?

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 11, 2021, 12:57:32 AM

Quote from: Solarwind on March 11, 2021, 12:12:42 AM

How then is photolysis  related to magnetism? Imagine you are a tutor for a course I am doing and I have asked you to explain it to me. Why does the process of photolysis only create a magnetic effect in certain metals and not others? 

Why not the alignment of certain (iron like) atoms?

Why does a magic sponge clean stuff much much better than a showering sponge?

Why do you need to continue with so many pathetic deflections rather than being honest and just admitting you have no idea how magnets work or why some materials are magnetic?

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 11, 2021, 01:33:00 AM

When you start to learn how to put little pieces of jigsaw into the puzzle, you might start understanding how it works.
Hammering them in and thinking they fit is not the way forward and just shows up the inept child like ways of you.

I did, and showed quite clearly that the pieces don't fit together

What showed you, what?

I have yet to understand how air pressure can cause magnetism. 

You won't until you understand how atmospheric pressure causes magnetism and all of the means in which it works because of.
You think a bit of wind is your way of arguing. You'll get nowhere with that mindset.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 11, 2021, 12:54:25 AM

Quote from: sobchak on March 10, 2021, 09:08:54 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 10, 2021, 09:02:05 AM

Quote from: sobchak on March 10, 2021, 05:23:43 AM

So one side of the magnet has high pressure and the other has low pressure?

Yes.

Great, thanks for clarifying.  Can you explain a little more how these high and low pressures interact with other objects around them? 

Also, so in your model, atmosphere can flow from low to high pressure?

Atmosphere doesn't flow in low to high pressure. For that to happen you need to add energy to a lower pressure to push it into higher pressure.

Doesn’t your model have atmospheric flow through the magnet, from high pressure on the ‘inlet’ side to low pressure on the ‘outlet’ side?

If not can you clarify?

It's a pressure flow, yes.
Not an air flow as we perceive wind.

Quote from: sobchak on March 11, 2021, 03:45:46 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 11, 2021, 12:54:25 AM

Quote from: sobchak on March 10, 2021, 09:08:54 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 10, 2021, 09:02:05 AM

Quote from: sobchak on March 10, 2021, 05:23:43 AM

So one side of the magnet has high pressure and the other has low pressure?

Yes.

Great, thanks for clarifying.  Can you explain a little more how these high and low pressures interact with other objects around them? 

Also, so in your model, atmosphere can flow from low to high pressure?

Atmosphere doesn't flow in low to high pressure. For that to happen you need to add energy to a lower pressure to push it into higher pressure.

Doesn’t your model have atmospheric flow through the magnet, from high pressure on the ‘inlet’ side to low pressure on the ‘outlet’ side?

If not can you clarify?

It's a pressure flow, yes.
Not an air flow as we perceive wind.

What is a pressure flow, as compared to an airflow?

Don’t really understand this part, is it possible to explain the difference in your model clearly and simply?

You won't until you understand how atmospheric pressure causes magnetism and all of the means in which it works because of.
You think a bit of wind is your way of arguing. You'll get nowhere with that mindset.

Well that will take a long time because in conventional physics magnetism and atmospheric pressure are not in any way related.  Changes in air pressure is what causes the wind.  It has nothing to do with magnetism.

So you had better start explaining how and why there is a connection between atmospheric pressure and magnetism.  Why does magnetism only relate to certain metals if it is caused by atmospheric pressure?

When some magnets are subject to immense pressure geologically that can have an effect on the magnetic field but that is not pressure due to atmospheric pressure. 

So I will never understand how atmospheric pressure causes magnetism unless you explain because you are the first person I know of ever to make the connection.  That leads me to suspect one of two outcomes.  Either you are a total genius or you are totally wrong.

Super interesting and easily and experimentally testable properties

Air has static pressure  (barometric) and dynamic pressure (wind).
Are you intro ing a new pressure property?

E Motors generate magnetic fields when electricty is passed - is electrcity a property of air?
What about air and electricity requires a it in copper but in rare earth metals nothing?