Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #180 on: May 18, 2010, 06:08:19 PM »
It proves that the Moon and the Sun shine by their own light.

Save for the fact that the only thing his experiment did was prove that plants need sunlight, which we already knew.
In fact, it has been shown that moonlight is just 13.6% sunlight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight

So can I quote you that FES believes moonlight is harmful?
Lamp groups would have been affected then


Wait, why are you assuming that the results are due to stress?  Wouldn't phototropism produce similar if not identical effects?
What does phototropism have ANYTHING to do with excess collenchyma
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Lorddave

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #181 on: May 18, 2010, 06:10:48 PM »
It proves that the Moon and the Sun shine by their own light.

Save for the fact that the only thing his experiment did was prove that plants need sunlight, which we already knew.
In fact, it has been shown that moonlight is just 13.6% sunlight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight

So can I quote you that FES believes moonlight is harmful?
Lamp groups would have been affected then


Wait, why are you assuming that the results are due to stress?  Wouldn't phototropism produce similar if not identical effects?
What does phototropism have ANYTHING to do with excess collenchyma

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the elongation cells of a plant that allows phototrophism to occur called Collenchyma?

I did look at your slides and it looked like the heavy layers were to one side, not evenly distributed.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #182 on: May 18, 2010, 06:19:23 PM »
That's because that is a slide of one vascular bundle. The many vascular bundles form a circle within the shoot.
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Lorddave

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #183 on: May 18, 2010, 06:41:47 PM »
That's because that is a slide of one vascular bundle. The many vascular bundles form a circle within the shoot.

What about the first question about phototropism and how it occurs using the same cells?
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #184 on: May 18, 2010, 06:42:37 PM »
It has to do with elongating the cells-not creating excess of them
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Lorddave

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #185 on: May 18, 2010, 06:45:13 PM »
It has to do with elongating the cells-not creating excess of them

Unless there aren't enough cells to elongate enough. Was there any evidence of elongation?  Or was that not checked?

I'm also still waiting to know if there was evidence of damage to the cells.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #186 on: May 18, 2010, 06:48:22 PM »
It has to do with elongating the cells-not creating excess of them

Unless there aren't enough cells to elongate enough.
Incorrect. Phototropism doesn't cause new excess collenchyma formation ever.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #187 on: May 18, 2010, 06:53:55 PM »
Ichi, did you do any tests on moonlight and seed germination?  If not and you'd like some amateur input or if you've already done that and would like more input, I'd like to do something like that.  I'm thinking it wouldn't necessarily require a lab setup.


Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #188 on: May 19, 2010, 12:20:34 AM »


Are you kidding?  All we have are logical answers!

That response is the strongest evidence I have yet seen that you, in particular, are being deliberately facetious!

Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #189 on: May 19, 2010, 12:32:31 AM »
I actually believe that there's a possibility that cases of so-called "sun poisoning" get more severe when the moon is out during the day.

Being facetious again?  Of course it is almost impossible to rule any given possibility with absolute, 100% certainty, but I doubt that you really believe that there is anything close to a significant probability that "sun poisoning" gets more severe when the moon is out during the day.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 01:20:43 AM by Rational U.S. Viking »

Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #190 on: May 19, 2010, 01:06:55 AM »
Ichi, perhaps I missed it, but I saw no evidence that you compared plants that received no light at all with plants that received only moonlight.  I am confident that if you had, you would have found that plants that received no light at all fared at least as badly as (and probably even worse than) plants that were exposed only to moonlight.  Did you do a spectrographic comparison between sunlight and moonlight?  If you had done that competently and honestly, I am sure that you would have found the spectrum of moonlight is essentially identical to to that of sunlight, as moonlight is nothing more than reflected sunlight, diminished in intensity by the proportion of that light absorbed by the moon's surface.

Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #191 on: May 19, 2010, 01:46:52 AM »
The secret FE motto:
Never do an experiment that could potentially provide evidence against the presupposed outcome.

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #192 on: May 19, 2010, 05:14:49 AM »
The secret FE motto:
Never do an experiment that could potentially provide evidence against the presupposed outcome.

Also, I think we need to all learn how variables work

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #193 on: May 19, 2010, 05:17:01 AM »
Ichi, perhaps I missed it, but I saw no evidence that you compared plants that received no light at all with plants that received only moonlight.  I am confident that if you had, you would have found that plants that received no light at all fared at least as badly as (and probably even worse than) plants that were exposed only to moonlight.  Did you do a spectrographic comparison between sunlight and moonlight?  If you had done that competently and honestly, I am sure that you would have found the spectrum of moonlight is essentially identical to to that of sunlight, as moonlight is nothing more than reflected sunlight, diminished in intensity by the proportion of that light absorbed by the moon's surface.
Actually, no light plants don't create excess collenchyma. Strawman argument.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #194 on: May 19, 2010, 06:43:23 AM »
Ichi, perhaps I missed it, but I saw no evidence that you compared plants that received no light at all with plants that received only moonlight.  I am confident that if you had, you would have found that plants that received no light at all fared at least as badly as (and probably even worse than) plants that were exposed only to moonlight.  Did you do a spectrographic comparison between sunlight and moonlight?  If you had done that competently and honestly, I am sure that you would have found the spectrum of moonlight is essentially identical to to that of sunlight, as moonlight is nothing more than reflected sunlight, diminished in intensity by the proportion of that light absorbed by the moon's surface.
Actually, no light plants don't create excess collenchyma. Strawman argument.
No strawman found.
where did you test for no light???
and did you test for light with different intensity?
did you do an assay for something in moonlight that is different from sunlight?

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #195 on: May 19, 2010, 06:47:54 AM »
Yes I did. The lamps accompished ruling out intensity differences. A no light test group is not needed. No light groups never grow excess collenchyma. That never changes since the absence of a light source is always the same. They were all grown in the same green house, over the same week, with the same temperature throughout. Once again, strawman.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #196 on: May 19, 2010, 06:51:30 AM »
Yes I did. The lamps accompished ruling out intensity differences. A no light test group is not needed. No light groups never grow excess collenchyma. That never changes since the absence of a light source is always the same. They were all grown in the same green house, over the same week, with the same temperature throughout. Once again, strawman.

No they didn't, all that proved was that plants are fine under the intensity of light from the sun and lamp.
You didn't test if there was a baseline intensity. Ironman.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #197 on: May 19, 2010, 06:53:27 AM »
Yes I did. The lamps accompished ruling out intensity differences. A no light test group is not needed. No light groups never grow excess collenchyma. That never changes since the absence of a light source is always the same. They were all grown in the same green house, over the same week, with the same temperature throughout. Once again, strawman.

No they didn't, all that proved was that plants are fine under the intensity of light from the sun and lamp.
You didn't test if there was a baseline intensity. Ironman.
The nigt-glo lamp has the same intensity as moonlight. Strawman.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #198 on: May 19, 2010, 07:11:20 AM »
Yes I did. The lamps accompished ruling out intensity differences. A no light test group is not needed. No light groups never grow excess collenchyma. That never changes since the absence of a light source is always the same. They were all grown in the same green house, over the same week, with the same temperature throughout. Once again, strawman.

No they didn't, all that proved was that plants are fine under the intensity of light from the sun and lamp.
You didn't test if there was a baseline intensity. Ironman.
The nigt-glo lamp has the same intensity as moonlight. Strawman.

proof? Also what was the difference in spectrum of lamp light and moonlight of your particular lamp?
you still haven't tested for no intensity.

Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #199 on: May 20, 2010, 03:31:24 AM »
MMM still didn't see any proof for an Anti-moon.


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markjo

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #200 on: May 20, 2010, 05:05:22 AM »
The nigt-glo lamp has the same intensity as moonlight.

Perhaps this is evidence that moonlight has insufficient intensity to support healthy plant growth (a.k.a. photosynthesis).  Rather than the moonlight directly stressing the plants, perhaps the plants were being stressed by starvation.
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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #201 on: May 20, 2010, 06:06:04 AM »
Yes I did. The lamps accomplished ruling out intensity differences. A no light test group is not needed. No light groups never grow excess collenchyma. That never changes since the absence of a light source is always the same. They were all grown in the same green house, over the same week, with the same temperature throughout. Once again, strawman.

Okay.  So what did you find in the spectrum of moonlight that was not in the spectrum of sunlight (or for that matter, not in the spectrum of night-glo lamps)?

How did you determine that the intensity of the night-glo lamps was no greater than that of moonlight?  Did you actually measure the difference with a calibrated photometer, or did you just judge that subjectively by eye without the aid of measuring instruments?

Your claim that a no light test group was not needed is complete nonsense!  How else could you credibly rule out that deprivation of light was the major (if not the sole) cause of plants' failure to thrive or survive!  I submit that the only reason you failed to include a group exposed to no light at all is fear of damaging the credibility of your hypothesis that deprivation of light had little or nothing to do with your results.  Your whole experimental procedure and conclusions based on it reeks of confirmation bias and deliberate avoidance of any tests that might possibly cast legitimate doubt on your initial hypothesis!

In Addition, if you admit that you did not have any no light test groups, how can you so confidently assert that "No light groups never grow excess collenchyma."?  Besides that, the growth of excess collenchyma (even if true) is no more evidence of harm than is the growth of calluses on the feet of someone who does a lot of walking and running.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 06:52:07 AM by Rational U.S. Viking »

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #202 on: May 20, 2010, 08:03:20 AM »
The nigt-glo lamp has the same intensity as moonlight.

Perhaps this is evidence that moonlight has insufficient intensity to support healthy plant growth (a.k.a. photosynthesis).  Rather than the moonlight directly stressing the plants, perhaps the plants were being stressed by starvation.

Mechanical stress is equal to force/surface area i.e. like pressure. like when you keep moving it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2039767/
And somehow I think we've missed the fact that thicken collenchyma is not a sign of death or harm,
Its just the plants structural support. Further more, If a plant doesn't get adequate light, It can't go through photosynthesis, no matter what Tom Bishop says. photo synthesis uses the plants water, so with that, it retains more water. evidence to this is that the stomata of plants close (preventing the intake of C02) so that they can retain more water.
more water retention= hypotonic solution=pressure=collenchyma thickening
/thread

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #203 on: May 20, 2010, 08:06:01 AM »
The nigt-glo lamp has the same intensity as moonlight.

Perhaps this is evidence that moonlight has insufficient intensity to support healthy plant growth (a.k.a. photosynthesis).  Rather than the moonlight directly stressing the plants, perhaps the plants were being stressed by starvation.
And somehow I think we've missed the fact that thicken collenchyma is not a sign of death or harm,
/thread
Somehow you missed the fact that excess collenchyma is. /thread.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #204 on: May 20, 2010, 08:07:46 AM »
The nigt-glo lamp has the same intensity as moonlight.

Perhaps this is evidence that moonlight has insufficient intensity to support healthy plant growth (a.k.a. photosynthesis).  Rather than the moonlight directly stressing the plants, perhaps the plants were being stressed by starvation.
And somehow I think we've missed the fact that thicken collenchyma is not a sign of death or harm,
/thread
Somehow you missed the fact that excess collenchyma is. /thread.

I didn't see that in your source. feel free to prove that excess collenchyma caused the organism to die

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Lorddave

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #205 on: May 20, 2010, 12:35:43 PM »
It has to do with elongating the cells-not creating excess of them

Unless there aren't enough cells to elongate enough.
Incorrect. Phototropism doesn't cause new excess collenchyma formation ever.

Really?

Well not being an expert I'll take your word for it.

That still leaves one last question from me... was there any sign of damage to the cells?

Actually I have another question:

What plant species did you use?
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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James

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #206 on: May 20, 2010, 05:04:21 PM »
MMM still didn't see any proof for an Anti-moon.



It's sitting there in the sky - what more proof do you want?
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Skeleton

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #207 on: May 20, 2010, 05:23:54 PM »
MMM still didn't see any proof for an Anti-moon.



It's sitting there in the sky - what more proof do you want?

A picture of it, or you to tell us where to look for it. Durrr.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #208 on: May 20, 2010, 06:34:48 PM »
MMM still didn't see any proof for an Anti-moon.



It's sitting there in the sky - what more proof do you want?

A picture of it, or you to tell us where to look for it. Durrr.

He's already posted a picture.  Naturally all the REers assumed it was fake, exposing their inbred hypocrisy.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Lorddave

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Re: Lunar Danger! James and Ichi are the only ones?
« Reply #209 on: May 20, 2010, 07:07:17 PM »
MMM still didn't see any proof for an Anti-moon.



It's sitting there in the sky - what more proof do you want?

A picture of it, or you to tell us where to look for it. Durrr.

He's already posted a picture.  Naturally all the REers assumed it was fake, exposing their inbred hypocrisy.

What, the photoshopped picture that shows the moon moving infront of the sun?
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.