Photoelectric Suspension

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Photoelectric Suspension
« on: May 21, 2010, 12:43:33 PM »
(Alternate thread title.  "F***ing magnets!  How do they work?")

James has an idea of how the sun and moon are kept in place.  Apparently Tom Bishop supports it, even though neither of them have demonstrated even the slightest inkling of understanding on just what the hell they're talking about.

When light shines on a metal surface at a certain wavelength, the surface emits a burst of electrons. When large enough lights do this on the surface of a large enough metal surface, they adopt the function of massice discs, the continuous stream of electrons keeps them aloft above the plate.

I asked him how this could be and proposed the consequences of if it were true:

So the Earth is becoming more and more positive, while the sun and moon are somehow being bombarded with enough electrons to hold them up, grow incredibly negative?  You realize the charge difference would create either sun/moon-to-Earth lightning or (if there's no medium to move through) they'd both act like gigantic magnets and attract each other?

You're forgetting the Earth's magnetic field

Apparently I, the only person with an active thread on the subject (which is conveniently ignored by FEers), am somehow forgetting the Earth's magnetic field.  Well, let's try to go through James's hypothesis logically.



There's the simplified FE model.  Here's how the photoelectric effect would work were Earth the "massice" metal slab James seems to think it is.



Notice the electrons being scattered about randomly?  James seems to think enough of those electrons are coming directly back into the sun to HOLD IT ABOVE THE CONSTANTLY ACCELERATING EARTH.  Just for the sake of going too far, let's go on and presume that's somehow possible.



Notice how the sun is now being bombarded with electrons, while the Earth is losing them at an equal rate?



This means the sun is becoming increasingly negative as the Earth is becoming increasingly positive.  We can't forget that opposing charges attract.



So the sun and Earth attract each other indefinitely, and with forever increasing force.  It would have to because, in order to remain suspended, the sun must continually be hit by these electrons, which are given off by the Earth.  What happens when they get so close that Earth's atmosphere can act as a medium to allow this charge to return?



COSMIC LIGHTNING.   ::)


More points to consider:

The moon must do this as well, meaning it must emit light of equal or greater energetic frequencies than the sun.  This would also make the sun and moon HIGHLY OPPOSE EACH OTHER, as they would both be growing more negative indefinitely.  Even if, for the sake of argument, the moon was capable of putting out such energy for such a long time, where does it get that energy from?  According to James, "it eats itself," which is pure and total idiocy that only pushes the problem back one step further.

Additionally, there would be no life as we know it.  Positive ions would be pulled up into the sky towards the negative celestial bodies (repelled by the positive earth below), while negative ions would be pulled down towards the ground (repelled by the negative celestial bodies above).  Literally anything with a net dipole moment would orient itself vertically.  Not only do we observe no such distinctions or phenomena, it would make the formation of cells as we understand it completely impossible.

So, where did I forget Earth's magnetic field?  Well, on a flat planet, there is no working configuration of magnetic field lines that demonstrates what we observed experimentally through the simple use of compasses and the viewing of the respective northern and southern aurorae near the poles.  So until I'm shown how electromagnetic field lines can be configured on a flat planet while still keeping with observed phenomena, the book on photoelectric suspension is closed.

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Lorddave

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2010, 01:08:05 PM »
He should have used semi-conductor mag-lev ideas instead.

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2010, 06:31:26 PM »
The dangling on wires theory should be in the FAQ. It's more likely than this.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Johannes

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2010, 07:58:08 PM »
I don't agree with Jame's radical views on the sun.

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2010, 08:02:04 PM »
I don't agree with Jame's radical views on the sun.

I'm curious.  If you are an FEer, how do you think the sun/moon/stars remain above us?

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John Davis

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2010, 01:16:55 AM »
I don't know about Johannes, but to me it is clear that either there is a repulsive force at work or that space is expanding between us and the heavens.
Quantum Ab Hoc

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Deceiver

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2010, 06:03:03 AM »
I don't know about Johannes, but to me it is clear that either there is a repulsive force at work or that space is expanding between us and the heavens.

Clear on what grounds...?
All I'm getting from that statement is that we're evoking yet another new force or creating a very specific exclusion to physics for the sole purpose of explaining away the suspended sun and moon mess, a problem which only came about because the premises before that were also explained away in a very similar manner. data and maths please  ???

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2010, 09:31:21 AM »
there is a repulsive force at work

Damn right. Lots of repulsiveness.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Johannes

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2010, 03:31:56 PM »
I don't agree with Jame's radical views on the sun.

I'm curious.  If you are an FEer, how do you think the sun/moon/stars remain above us?
The whole universe is accelerating forward at approximately 32 ft/s^2. What is so hard to understand about this????

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Sliver

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2010, 03:39:08 PM »
I don't agree with Jame's radical views on the sun.

I'm curious.  If you are an FEer, how do you think the sun/moon/stars remain above us?
The whole universe is accelerating forward at approximately 32 ft/s^2. What is so hard to understand about this????
WOW!  The way you dodged that question!  Man, I felt the breeze from here you moved so fast!

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2010, 03:41:11 PM »
The whole universe is accelerating forward at approximately 32 ft/s^2. What is so hard to understand about this????

Obviously not the whole universe, otherwise we would be accelerating at that rate as well, making our velocity zero relative to the Earth...making us weightless.  Why doesn't universal acceleration directly affect us?

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Johannes

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2010, 03:46:43 PM »
The whole universe is accelerating forward at approximately 32 ft/s^2. What is so hard to understand about this????

Obviously not the whole universe, otherwise we would be accelerating at that rate as well, making our velocity zero relative to the Earth...making us weightless.  Why doesn't universal acceleration directly affect us?
Why do you stop accelerating in an elevator moving upwards when you jump?

I believe dark energy has a relationship with mass such that small objects like asteroids and you are negligible.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 03:51:21 PM by Johannes »

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2010, 03:57:44 PM »
Why do you stop accelerating in an elevator moving upwards when you jump?

That analogy sucks.

According to UA I should be able to let go of a ball and it remain stationary in the air.  UA is affecting it too, right?  No?  Well why not?  If UA affects the sun and moon, why not the ball?

Edit: well you've edited your post making this point moot, but it's idiotic nonetheless.  You're still making baseless claims about something you can't measure the effects of.

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Johannes

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2010, 04:02:44 PM »
Why do you stop accelerating in an elevator moving upwards when you jump?

That analogy sucks.

According to UA I should be able to let go of a ball and it remain stationary in the air.  UA is affecting it too, right?  No?  Well why not?  If UA affects the sun and moon, why not the ball?

Edit: well you've edited your post making this point moot, but it's idiotic nonetheless.  You're still making baseless claims about something you can't measure the effects of.
I can make rough approximations of the UA with this formula:

d=.5(ua)t^2

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2010, 04:07:21 PM »
Gonna need some units here.   ::)
Edit: also, mass isn't anywhere in that equation, so you've already invalidated your earlier idea of the accelerative force differing between masses.

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Johannes

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2010, 05:24:42 PM »
Gonna need some units here.   ::)
Edit: also, mass isn't anywhere in that equation, so you've already invalidated your earlier idea of the accelerative force differing between masses.
what part of "approximation" and "negligible" don't you understand. RE'ers just get dumber and dumber.

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2010, 06:07:54 PM »
You've yet to explain anything about it being a substitute for the gravitational force, what you observed to come up with it, how it affects masses differently, or phenomena it can explain and predict--and you expect me to just take it at face value?  Get real.

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Crustinator

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2010, 06:15:50 PM »
or that space is expanding between us and the heavens.

Umm. Is there any possible way to find out if this is the case?

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markjo

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2010, 07:08:13 PM »
I don't agree with Jame's radical views on the sun.

I'm curious.  If you are an FEer, how do you think the sun/moon/stars remain above us?
The whole universe is accelerating forward at approximately 32 ft/s^2. What is so hard to understand about this????
How about the fact that without an absolute frame of reference, that is an untestable hypothesis?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Johannes

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2010, 08:48:15 PM »
I don't agree with Jame's radical views on the sun.

I'm curious.  If you are an FEer, how do you think the sun/moon/stars remain above us?
The whole universe is accelerating forward at approximately 32 ft/s^2. What is so hard to understand about this????
How about the fact that without an absolute frame of reference, that is an untestable hypothesis?
Doesn't make it wrong.

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markjo

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2010, 08:51:29 PM »
I don't agree with Jame's radical views on the sun.

I'm curious.  If you are an FEer, how do you think the sun/moon/stars remain above us?
The whole universe is accelerating forward at approximately 32 ft/s^2. What is so hard to understand about this????
How about the fact that without an absolute frame of reference, that is an untestable hypothesis?
Doesn't make it wrong.
Doesn't make it correct either.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

John Davis

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2010, 09:21:11 PM »
I don't know about Johannes, but to me it is clear that either there is a repulsive force at work or that space is expanding between us and the heavens.

Clear on what grounds...?
All I'm getting from that statement is that we're evoking yet another new force or creating a very specific exclusion to physics for the sole purpose of explaining away the suspended sun and moon mess, a problem which only came about because the premises before that were also explained away in a very similar manner. data and maths please  ???
Simply measure the redshift of the heavens.  It is clear that the entirety of heavens are expanding away from us.
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2010, 10:03:29 PM »
Simply measure the redshift of the heavens.  It is clear that the entirety of heavens are expanding away from us.

Are you trying to use the expansion of space to explain why the sun and moon are held above the Earth?  If so, I'll gladly bite.  According to FET, the sun and moon are only 3000 miles from the Earth.  If there's enough repulsive force in the space between the Earth and those bodies to keep them at such a level above the accelerating Earth of 9.8m/s^2, then why isn't there a repulsive force of 9.8m/s^2 between New York and Alaska?  They're that far apart; why aren't they flying away from each other?

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2010, 12:57:55 AM »


Finally found what James means with "massice."

Massice is a term which denotes something being the subject of charge repulsion. A massice disc is a disc which is of like charge to a base object which it is in a repulsive relation to.

When Alpha decay occurs, for example, the ejected helium nucleus is a massice object in relation to the main nucleus. In that case, it is a massice particle, not a massice disc (obviously). The relation between the Alpha particle and the other nucleus is electrostatic force, so the smaller "repulsed" object can be described as being massice.

Considering "massice" isn't actually a word, I'm willing to wager James first started using it after misinterpreting this post, which seems to have simply had a single misspelling of "massive."

...I believe that at some point in time the sun and moon were in fact massice disks of metal that were on top of the earths crust...

James's current theory appears to be a spin-off that makes even less sense.

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John Davis

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2010, 02:08:46 AM »
Simply measure the redshift of the heavens.  It is clear that the entirety of heavens are expanding away from us.

Are you trying to use the expansion of space to explain why the sun and moon are held above the Earth?  If so, I'll gladly bite.  According to FET, the sun and moon are only 3000 miles from the Earth.  If there's enough repulsive force in the space between the Earth and those bodies to keep them at such a level above the accelerating Earth of 9.8m/s^2, then why isn't there a repulsive force of 9.8m/s^2 between New York and Alaska?  They're that far apart; why aren't they flying away from each other?
I don't personally believe they are that close.   Nor do I hold the that the Earth is accelerating at some obscene rate hurtling upwards by some sort of godforce.
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2010, 02:34:12 AM »
Ah, alright. Sorry for making that assumption.

What is holding the sun/moon up, then?  The attractive force of mass and the repelling force of space reached a kind of equilibrium or something?

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markjo

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2010, 04:43:03 AM »
Simply measure the redshift of the heavens.  It is clear that the entirety of heavens are expanding away from us.

Are you trying to use the expansion of space to explain why the sun and moon are held above the Earth?  If so, I'll gladly bite.  According to FET, the sun and moon are only 3000 miles from the Earth.  If there's enough repulsive force in the space between the Earth and those bodies to keep them at such a level above the accelerating Earth of 9.8m/s^2, then why isn't there a repulsive force of 9.8m/s^2 between New York and Alaska?  They're that far apart; why aren't they flying away from each other?
I don't personally believe they are that close.   Nor do I hold the that the Earth is accelerating at some obscene rate hurtling upwards by some sort of godforce.

But others do.  That's why it can be so maddening trying to debate here.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Lorddave

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2010, 10:10:02 AM »
I don't know about Johannes, but to me it is clear that either there is a repulsive force at work or that space is expanding between us and the heavens.

Clear on what grounds...?
All I'm getting from that statement is that we're evoking yet another new force or creating a very specific exclusion to physics for the sole purpose of explaining away the suspended sun and moon mess, a problem which only came about because the premises before that were also explained away in a very similar manner. data and maths please  ???
Simply measure the redshift of the heavens.  It is clear that the entirety of heavens are expanding away from us.

Wait... you're going to use Redshift as evidence?

I'm not expert, but doesn't redshift require that the light travel several million light years before we can get anything significant?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 10:34:14 AM by Lorddave »

Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2010, 10:28:36 AM »
I don't know about Johannes, but to me it is clear that either there is a repulsive force at work or that space is expanding between us and the heavens.

Clear on what grounds...?
All I'm getting from that statement is that we're evoking yet another new force or creating a very specific exclusion to physics for the sole purpose of explaining away the suspended sun and moon mess, a problem which only came about because the premises before that were also explained away in a very similar manner. data and maths please  ???
Simply measure the redshift of the heavens.  It is clear that the entirety of heavens are expanding away from us.

Wait... you're going to use Redshift as evidence?

I'm not expert, but doesn't redshift require that the light travel several milliuon light years before we can get anything significant?
Yes it does. It also needs relativistic speeds...
ANOTHER WIN FOR RET!
Then you have provided evidence for the Earth being a sphere

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John Davis

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Re: Photoelectric Suspension
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2010, 12:58:07 PM »
I hardly see how this is a win for RET.
Quantum Ab Hoc