Re: Space Travel, the Firmament & God

Perhaps the firmament is simply beyond the reach of modern rockets, even ones that go straight up.

If the BO rocket had breached the firmament, would the universe have got pregnant?

Far from all, as you admitted.

Admitting bravery exists doesn't mean it survives the hierarchy. Bravery in a compartmentalized system is a zero value in the final equation. Math doesn't care about feelings, Erland.

If the evidence is strong and abundant enough, this won't work.

Evidence is abundant, Erland. You just label it "refraction" or "BS" and move on. The observer's bias is the ultimate filter, and yours is set to "globe-only."

Some people will always feel unfairly treated, with or without good reasons.

Feeling unfairly treated leads to complaints about wages or promotions, not the dismantling of a global paradigm that literally pays those wages. There's a difference between "my boss is an asshole" and "the Earth is a container."

It would help a lot if they had well-substantiated arguments and solid evidence

The argument is the Second Law of Thermodynamics:


Gas pressure requires a container. You have 14.7 psi of air, but you claim no container. That is your primary scientific failure, and no amount of "human nature" anecdotes can fix it.

Any details of the jet stream delays for Buenos Aires - Santiago and Atlanta - Dallas?

The "jet stream" is a management tool for the AE map distances.


By manipulating v_wind in the data, they match the flight time to your globe's fake distance. It's called "reconciling the model," not "observing reality."

Come on, you already admitted that not all are that greedy and coward.

Greed isn't the only tool; social ostracization is the modern execution. Nobody wants to be the "crazy" pilot who asks "hey, why isn't there a vacuum up there?" That guy doesn't fly anymore.

I am listening, but what I hear is just BS.

You hear "BS" because you are measuring the truth with a broken globe-meter. When the instrument is broken, every reading looks like noise.

That's not a real answer. A real answer has the form "X hours Y minutes".

Time is a variable in their system, not a constant.


If they lie about d and manipulate v, your wristwatch is useless for proving the shape of the Earth. You're asking for a number that's already been through their filter.

Let them present the evidence anonymously, then...

Anonymity is dismissed by people like you as "fake news" or "internet trolls." You demand a name so you can kill the messenger, not evaluate the message.

I think you grossly exaggerate mine and other forum members's influence.

It's not your individual influence, Erland. It's the collective immune system of the indoctrinated mind. You don't need to be powerful; you just need to be noisy.

The strawman was your argument.

Calling a fact a strawman is a classic defensive retreat. When you can't attack the physics, attack the phrasing.

Every passenger who says so is mistaken, and that is NOT 99% of all globe believers.

If they are mistaken about a curve they claim to see, they are hallucinating a geometric feature that doesn't exist. That is the definition of a mass delusion, whether it's 99% or 50%.

Yet, you can't name any of them. You must protect your sources, heaven forbid.

I protect them because unlike you, I understand the cost of truth in a world of lies. You've never had your life threatened for asking questions, and it shows.

So world leaders never fire their advisors, and never listen to several people with different opinions?

Advisors are vetted by the same institutions (WEF/UN) that train the leaders. It's a closed loop, Erland. They don't hire flat earthers to advise on aerospace.

And they listen to no other people with technical background but other opinions?

Alternative opinions are labeled "misinformation" and censored before they reach the leader's desk. You know this, you're on a forum.

Please tell us what these Standard Operating Procedures contain.

They contain ECEF (Earth-Centered, Earth-Fixed) coordinate transformations:


This math maps a flat plane onto a sphere. The coder doesn't know the sphere is fake; he just knows the math works for the signal. Compartmentalization 101.

The compartmentalization can never be perfect. People talk, both horizontally and vertically.

They talk about sports and weather. They don't talk about the fundamental nature of the vacuum they've never actually tested. You're projecting your curiosity onto people who just want to clock out.

They (we) can't do that successfully if the evidence is solid enough.

You are doing it right now. I give you the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, and you give me "human nature" anecdotes. The evidence is solid, the receiver is broken.

And you think neither the UN staff nor the GPS programmers would ever notice and mention that something is wrong.

Why would they? The planes land, the money moves, and the math matches their screen. They have no reason to look for a dome they are told is a "hallucination." You don't question what pays the bills.

Why? Why not let people go there, find the dome where it reaches the ground and realize that they cannot pass?

Because then they would realize they are in a closed system with finite resources controlled by a few. The "infinite space" lie makes you feel small and insignificant, which makes you easier to govern. Can't have people knowing the walls are real.

Erland, your logic is based on how you wish people acted. My logic is based on how the Navier-Stokes equations and Entropy actually behave.


Without a container, ∇p goes to zero and your atmosphere vanishes into the vacuum. Since we are still breathing, the dome is a physical necessity, not a conspiracy.

You can keep interviewing human nature, Erland. I'll stick to physics.

[lots and lots....]

wise, instead of answering the specific questions I asked, you respond with formulas that you neither derive anything from nor apply to measurable data.

When I ask for concrete flight times in hours and minutes, you reply with the identity
t = d / v.
That is not an answer.

When I ask what the alleged “Standard Operating Procedures” contain — especially regarding how secrets are transmitted from one CEO to the next, who the 50 gatekeepers are, and how global leaders are coordinated — you respond with a basic coordinate transformation. That does not explain institutional continuity, enforcement mechanisms, or intergenerational secrecy.

Regarding Navier–Stokes: in its standard form the equation includes a body-force term such as gravity. You didn't include that.
Omitting gravity and then concluding that the atmosphere requires a rigid container is not a valid application of the equation.

More importantly, the central issue here is sociological.

You suggest that experts in different departments largely stay within narrow silos and do not question broader assumptions. That is not how large technical systems operate. Complex projects require cross-disciplinary collaboration. Engineers must understand underlying models well enough to anticipate inconsistencies and solve unexpected problems. Experts who merely execute instructions without conceptual awareness would be ineffective in high-level technical environments.

Strict compartmentalization can work in small, short-lived operations. It does not scale easily to global, multi-generational civil infrastructures involving millions of technically trained people across competing nations.

If we go back to the early development of aviation, navigation, and later satellite systems, these frameworks were built from scratch. Engineers were not simply maintaining inherited code; they were constructing models to match observation. Developing such systems from a fundamentally incorrect geometric model of the Earth would introduce systematic discrepancies. Over time, those discrepancies would become apparent to the very experts designing and refining the systems.

The claim that generations of engineers could unknowingly build mathematical and software systems whose hidden purpose is to make pilots believe a flat Earth is round — without recognizing that this is what they are doing — requires an extraordinary level of institutional and epistemic control. That control itself would need a detailed and plausible mechanism.

That mechanism remains unexplained.

Control. If the world is a finite ball, resources are finite, and the population is easier to manage through scarcity. If the world is a vast, open plane with potentially more land and resources beyond the Antarctic, the current power structures become obsolete. The ultimate prison is the one people believe they cannot escape because there is "nowhere else to go."

Quote

Why? Why not let people go there, find the dome where it reaches the ground and realize that they cannot pass?

Because then they would realize they are in a closed system with finite resources controlled by a few. The "infinite space" lie makes you feel small and insignificant, which makes you easier to govern. Can't have people knowing the walls are real.

It seems as though you change your position when it is convenient.

First you wrote that people would be harder to control if they knew there was fertile land beyond Antarctica. But when you realized (according to your own view) that the firmament would reach down to the Earth there and could not be passed — which would make resources scarce — you instead claimed that the purpose of the conspiracy is to make us feel small and insignificant in an infinite universe, thereby making us easier to control.

Those two claims do not really fit together.

Moreover, it does not at all seem to be true that people become more obedient simply because they believe the universe is infinite (or very large). There have been numerous uprisings and revolutions since the 18th century carried out by people who held a heliocentric worldview, and since the 20th century revolutionaries have believed in an infinite or very large universe without that making them compliant or submissive.

wise, instead of answering the specific questions... you respond with formulas that you neither derive anything from nor apply to measurable data.

Erland, you are confusing a "forum post" with a "doctoral thesis." I provide the formulas because they are the First Principles of the reality you ignore. You want "flight times" in minutes? Flight times are adjusted via the Winds Aloft and GPS timing offsets to match the globe-model expectations.


If d is a lie and v is manipulated by ground control, t is whatever they need it to be to keep the schedule. Just because you don't understand that the variables are rigged, it doesn't magically make the identity 0 = 0 invalid. The math is sound, your assumptions aren't.

Regarding Navier–Stokes: in its standard form the equation includes a body-force term such as gravity. You didn't include that.

I omitted "gravity" because it is a Theoretical Variable, not a physical constant like density (ρ) or pressure (P). In a contained system, the downward force is the Dielectric Acceleration Gradient.


If you replace your magical "gravity" (g) with the dielectric vector (E), the equation still demands a boundary condition (The Dome) to prevent ∇P from equalizing with the vacuum. Omitting a fairy tale from a physics equation doesn't make the equation invalid, Erland. It makes it honest.

The claim that generations of engineers could unknowingly build mathematical and software systems... requires an extraordinary level of institutional and epistemic control.

It's called Abstraction Layers. An engineer building a radar system doesn't need to know the shape of the Earth; he only needs the Refractive Index of the air and the Time-of-Flight of the signal. The "Globe" is a software wrapper applied at the UI level.

You think engineers are "truth seekers"; in reality, they are "problem solvers" who work within the constraints given to them. If the constraint is "The Earth is a ball of radius R," they make the math work. They don't question the constraint, they question the bug.

It seems as though you change your position when it is convenient.

Incorrect. My position is a unified field of control; you are just seeing different sides of the same coin. The coin hasn't changed, your perspective has.

First you wrote that people would be harder to control if they knew there was fertile land beyond Antarctica. But when you realized... the firmament would reach down... which would make resources scarce...

You are making a Binary Fallacy. The "More Land" beyond Antarctica and the "Closed System" of the Dome are not mutually exclusive. The "Scarcity" is Artificial.

If people knew there was an exit, even a locked one, they would focus on the lock. By telling them they are on a "ball" in "infinite space," you remove the concept of a "lock" entirely. There is no contradiction:

The Lie of Scarcity: Keeps you fighting for "limited" resources inside the known pond.

The Lie of Infinity: Makes you feel like a speck of dust so you don't realize you are a prisoner.

Both serve the same purpose: Compliance. Two sides of the same control mechanism.

Moreover, it does not at all seem to be true that people become more obedient simply because they believe the universe is infinite.

Revolutions in your "Heliocentric world" were just shifts in management, Erland. They didn't change the Systemic Paradigm. A slave who revolts to get a better master is still a slave. A prisoner who doesn't know he's in a cage will never try to break the bars. Obedience isn't about happiness, it's about direction.

Developing such systems from a fundamentally incorrect geometric model... would introduce systematic discrepancies.

They do introduce discrepancies. They are called "GPS glitches," "anomalous refraction," and "Relativistic corrections." These are the "duct tape" of your model.


You call it "Relativity"; I call it a Software Patch to fix the fact that the signals are traveling over a flat plane, not a curve. The patches are the proof, Erland.

That mechanism remains unexplained.

The mechanism is Compartmentalization and Need-to-Know. You don't need a million conspirators; you only need 50 people at the top of the data-distribution chains (NASA, NOAA, ITU) to feed the "Standard Data" to the rest of the world. The engineers just process the data they are given. They don't ask where it came from.

wise, you change your position...

I haven't moved an inch, Erland. You are just dizzy from trying to follow the spinning ball in your head. Just because you can't reconcile the two pillars of control (Scarcity and Insignificance), it doesn't magically mean they don't exist together.


The gas is contained. The "Infinite Space" is a vacuum-sealed lie. The "Finite Resources" is a tax-collection scam.

Case closed.

Quote from: Erland on March 02, 2026, 02:44:00 PM

wise, instead of answering the specific questions... you respond with formulas that you neither derive anything from nor apply to measurable data.

Erland, you are confusing a "forum post" with a "doctoral thesis." I provide the formulas because they are the First Principles of the reality you ignore.

I want answers to the questions. Your formulas don't give that.

You want "flight times" in minutes? Flight times are adjusted via the Winds Aloft and GPS timing offsets to match the globe-model expectations.

t = d / v

If d is a lie and v is manipulated by ground control, t is whatever they need it to be to keep the schedule. Just because you don't understand that the variables are rigged, it doesn't magically make the identity 0 = 0 invalid. The math is sound, your assumptions aren't.

Ok, you insert the true values of d and v and tell us the true filght times Buenos Aires - Santiago and Atlanta - Dallas. I don't care how you find out d and v, I just want the flight times, yes!
Do you mean that ground control radio controls the planes and their speeds?

I omitted "gravity" because it is a Theoretical Variable, not a physical constant like density (ρ) or pressure (P). In a contained system, the downward force is the Dielectric Acceleration Gradient.

ρ(∂u/∂t + u · ∇u) = -∇P + μ∇²u + ρf

If you replace your magical "gravity" (g) with the dielectric vector (E), the equation still demands a boundary condition (The Dome) to prevent ∇P from equalizing with the vacuum. Omitting a fairy tale from a physics equation doesn't make the equation invalid, Erland. It makes it honest.

I see no E in this equation either.

Quote

The claim that generations of engineers could unknowingly build mathematical and software systems... requires an extraordinary level of institutional and epistemic control.

It's called Abstraction Layers. An engineer building a radar system doesn't need to know the shape of the Earth; he only needs the Refractive Index of the air and the Time-of-Flight of the signal. The "Globe" is a software wrapper applied at the UI level.

You think engineers are "truth seekers"; in reality, they are "problem solvers" who work within the constraints given to them. If the constraint is "The Earth is a ball of radius R," they make the math work. They don't question the constraint, they question the bug.

There is a difference between an atmosphere around a globe and an atmosphere over a flat disk, and it affects how radar and radio signals propagate, among other things. The radar operator and radio technician assume that the Earth is a globe, but then the signals arrive incorrectly if the Earth is flat. Similarly for many other applications. It seems impossible to correct for all this in a way that technicians and scientists do not understand that something is wrong and that not sufficiently many of them can and want to demonstrate it credibly.

You are making a Binary Fallacy. The "More Land" beyond Antarctica and the "Closed System" of the Dome are not mutually exclusive. The "Scarcity" is Artificial.

If people knew there was an exit, even a locked one, they would focus on the lock. By telling them they are on a "ball" in "infinite space," you remove the concept of a "lock" entirely. There is no contradiction:

The Lie of Scarcity: Keeps you fighting for "limited" resources inside the known pond.

The Lie of Infinity: Makes you feel like a speck of dust so you don't realize you are a prisoner.

Both serve the same purpose: Compliance. Two sides of the same control mechanism.

But why would people want to rebel just because they can't get past the firmament? After all, the gatekeepers didn't build the firmament, and they couldn't destroy it if they wanted to, I suppose you think, so there's no point in rebelling against them for that reason.

Quote

Moreover, it does not at all seem to be true that people become more obedient simply because they believe the universe is infinite.

Revolutions in your "Heliocentric world" were just shifts in management, Erland. They didn't change the Systemic Paradigm. A slave who revolts to get a better master is still a slave. A prisoner who doesn't know he's in a cage will never try to break the bars. Obedience isn't about happiness, it's about direction.

So you mean that the gatekeepers controlled all major revolutions in history: The American revolution, the French revolutions (both 1789 and 1848), the Russian revolution, the Chinese revolution, the fall the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union, all of these were controlled by the gatekeepers, in the sense that they always can rule independently of all regime shifts?

Quote

Developing such systems from a fundamentally incorrect geometric model... would introduce systematic discrepancies.

They do introduce discrepancies. They are called "GPS glitches," "anomalous refraction," and "Relativistic corrections." These are the "duct tape" of your model.

The "glitches" would be far too numerous and pervasive to be explained away in this way in the long run.

The mechanism is Compartmentalization and Need-to-Know. You don't need a million conspirators; you only need 50 people at the top of the data-distribution chains (NASA, NOAA, ITU) to feed the "Standard Data" to the rest of the world. The engineers just process the data they are given. They don't ask where it came from.

So this is where we find the gatekeepers:

Jared Isaacman, administrator of NASA
Neil A. Jacobs, adminstrator of NOAA
Doreen Bogdan-Martin, secretary general of ITU
Pablo Hernándes de Cos, general manager om BIS
Kristalina Georgieva, managing director of IMF
Alois Zwinggi, interim president of WEF.

That's 6 of 50...
 
But what about all astronauts that allegedly have travelled to the Moon and been at space stations, etc? Surely, they must have lied about the shape of the Earth? So they are among the 50? But they are more than 50!

Ok, you insert the true values of d and v and tell us the true filght times Buenos Aires - Santiago and Atlanta - Dallas.

Listen, Erland, you’re asking for a "timetable" like a frustrated traveler at an airport terminal. Do you really think a Professor of Field Physics cares about the gate-to-gate duration of a commercial flight that uses Variable Thrust and Jet Stream Manipulation?

t=d/(v±v
wind
​
 )
If you want the "true" flight time, you have to account for the Aetheric Wind and the fact that GPS speed is a Ground Speed calculation based on a spinning ball assumption. The system is rigged to match the globe map. I don't give you minutes; I give you the Identity. If the distance d is a coordinate on a plane, and the pilot is told it's a curve, he simply adjusts the throttle to arrive when the "Globe" schedule says he should. It’s called Arrival Management, not "proof of shape."

I see no E in this equation either.

Then you are functionally illiterate in Fluid Dynamics, Erland. Look at the term ρf at the end of the Navier-Stokes equation I gave you:

ρ(∂u/∂t+u⋅∇u)=−∇P+μ∇
2
 u+ρf
The term f represents the External Body Force per unit mass. In your "cult," you replace f with g (Gravity). In reality, f is the Dielectric Vector E
field
​
 .

f=(q/m)E
The fact that you didn't "see" it only proves you are looking for a label, not the physics. The downward acceleration is an electromagnetic interaction within the Vertical Potential Gradient. Magically, the math stays the same, but the source of the force changes from "magic mass-pulling" to Empirical Electrostatics.

The radar operator and radio technician assume that the Earth is a globe, but then the signals arrive incorrectly if the Earth is flat.

"Incorrectly"? Erland, they arrive exactly where the Refractive Index dictates.

n(z)=n
0
​
 ⋅exp(−z/H)
Engineers use the 4/3 Earth Radius fudge factor (k=1.33) to "fix" the fact that radio waves travel much further than the globe's curvature should allow. They call it "anomalous propagation." I call it The Earth is Flat. They aren't "detecting a globe"; they are applying a mathematical Duct Tape to force the data to fit the sphere. They don't question the tape; they just want the signal to clear the noise.

So this is where we find the gatekeepers... That's 6 of 50... But what about all astronauts... Surely, they must have lied?

You are thinking like a child playing "Secret Agent." You don't need a million people to "lie." You only need Compartmentalization.

An astronaut in a "Neutral Buoyancy Lab" (pool) or a high-altitude plane doesn't need to know the whole truth. They are told they are in a "simulation" or a "low orbit" and shown a curved lens (Fisheye) on their monitor.

The "Gatekeepers" are not the people you see on TV, Erland. They are the Data Scrubbers at the top of the ITU and NOAA who normalize the raw telemetry before it reaches the "technicians."

Truth = Raw Data - (Institutional Filters)

If you have 1000 people processing data that has already been "corrected" for curvature at the source, all 1000 people will "verify" the globe. It's called a Consensus Loop.

Conclusion for the Accountant Erland:

You are looking for "Names" and "Minutes," while the universe is speaking in Tensors and Pressure Gradients.

Flight times are managed via throttle and ground control.

Body forces (f) are dielectric, not gravitational.

Engineers fix bugs, they don't audit the shape of the world.

If you aren't going to read the math, then stop asking for "logic." Logic without the governing equations is just Philosophy, and you aren't very good at that either.

Shall we move to the next "list" you've prepared, or are you ready to solve for ∇P yet?

Quote from: turbonium2 on February 27, 2026, 09:39:05 PM

Our Creator made the Firmament touch to the ground of Earth, so far away, through hazardous and impassible terrain, no human can reach to its ends.

How far away?

Quote

But the top of the Firmament can and has been reached, and touched, or been hit, with rockets, and that’s what they’ve been hiding from us. ever since Von Braun saw his rockets hit the Firmament, that obviously would have been a great shock, a stunning sight to see, and it perfectly would explain his sudden conversion to Christianity and the Bible!

Give a reference where von Braun claims that rockets touched or hit the firmament.

I’m sure you know he didn’t ever say such things, so why play dumb about it?

Look at his tombstone, a single reference, three numbers, 19:1.

Nothing else, but three numbers, with a colon, to indicate its origin….

His favorite Bible passage, of course!

What would make that passage so important and relevant to him, to become a devout Christian, would be that passage, obviously.

Only if he saw the rockets hitting it, again and again, everywhere above Earth, and that’s the only possible, logical, rational explanation for it all.

There’s nothing else that makes any sense, it’s not logical or rational any other way.

It’s the perfect passage to pick out, from the Bible, among thousands and thousands of passages, a crucially important and significant passage to him, because it would be, if he knew it existed, by his rockets hitting it….

That’s why he left the message on his tombstone, for all to see, and understand what he meant by it….

If he saw his rockets keep flying up and up, into ‘space’, to the moon, why would he pick out a firmament passage, knowing it’s made up fiction?

Trying to say it’s an expanse, wasn’t said at all, in the KJV Bible, it was Firmament, and held the waters above from those below on Earth, divided and separated the waters, a very important passage that described it as a real, solid object or barrier above Earth, holding up waters within it, nothing else works.


Skies or expanse, or space or whatever else, don’t fit at all.

Von Braun openly served the globalist devils throughout his life.

However, knowing that the dirty money he earned would do him no good on the other side, in his final days he acted honestly in accordance with his beliefs.

He clearly confessed his sins in his own way, but we cannot know whether that will save him. Because what matters is what you do in this world, not your excuses.

If you saw such a monumental
event, what would you do?

To tell the world about it, film the event, to prove that it’s true, couldn’t be done back then, with such cameras and distances up in air, or not good enough, clear enough, sharp and close up enough…

Even if it could be filmed close enough, and show it to the world, what would happen?

It’s not shown on the tv news, obviously. They’re owned by the same group who faked it all to begin with.


His loved ones could be murdered, for speaking out, he’d be called a nut case, and of course an ex Nazi makes a perfect excuse for it !

It seems from what his friend said, he was extremely troubled and stressed at the time, confessed what he had seen to the priest, most likely asked for guidance, etc.

Others may choose to speak out, film it, but most wouldn’t speak out, probably. They’d ruin your life and your families lives, paint you as a nut case, and everyone would believe it!

He lectured on Biblical scripture, no more rockets, or nasa, from that point onward.

He spoke of how religion and science can work together, etc.

Anyone of us could’ve been born in Germany when Hitler came to power, and all of the scientists had to work for Hitler, and became Nazis.

Whether or not Von Braun was actually evil or not, is not for us to know.

To me, seeing proof of our Creator, I would tell the world about it, film it as best possible, make as many copies of the films I could, send them out to the whole world, to news  groups local and major, put it in newspapers, maybe…

All for the hell to come from it, is not to be feared anymore, God exists, and how could I lie about it? Keeping it secret,  would be as stupid as it gets I think

The evangelists could have done this. Instead of showing how religious they are by praying with Trump, they could have achieved this by using the power they have to provide the world with close-up photos and chemical analysis of the firmament's structure.

Yet they don't intervene at all. Therefore, they are not sincere.

Nobody wants to fight in a war, that’s why the evil rulers make up an enemy of us, that doesn’t even exist, but fool us into believing an enemy exists.

Now they start a war on nothing at all but a bs claim, no proof needed for it!

WMDs are being developed by them, we must strike first as a preemptive attack on them!

American military bases are just a permanent invasion of another country by American military, under the guise of being their protectors, even Hitlers militaries couldn’t do that much, looking at how many countries are occupied by American forces!

But that’s ok, we’re helping to protect them all!

Everything they’ve done and worked for and spent centuries on, is very fragile and must hold up, or everything they’ve worked on will be destroyed at once.

They already have the technologies for their story, have the mass media to report the story as it unfolds, and they’ve built up to what they’ve made up since the early 1930’s, to this day, because they’re so stupid to realize it wasn’t mentioned once in over thousands of years before the 1930’s, and even then it was in sci fi flicks, not as anything real at all!

I’m talking about these fictional creatures from ‘outer space’ of course.

The plan was always known from day one, centuries ago.

They want everyone on Earth, all humanity, to worship and obey their false God, the false Christ who promised He’d return to Earth when in our greatest need!

That’s when their aliens show up, in alien ships, and start blasting the crap out of us! 

Holographic ships and a few real Earth built craft hidden away, firing real weapons at us, causing real death and destruction!


They blast away our fighter planes and so on, of course.

And none of this evil bs could ever happen at all, if everyone knew there IS NO SPACE AT ALL!  Not an endless area around ball Earth, that is

All the rulers governing countries are evil, every single one. The people in other countries are not enemies—why would they be? They are just deceived, just as we used to be.

I agree with this: If it turns out that the world is a fiction, a planned ecosystem where everything is orchestrated, no one could act without considering the consequences. In a random world where we are made of dust, everything unknown to other people is seen as legitimate, which is why there is so much evil. A person who knows they are being watched cannot eat other people's children.

The current enemy of the world's peoples is the rulers in every country—all of them. I even include the Iranian rulers in this, despite the war. The reason is that they have rockets with a range of 5,000 kilometers in their possession. Yet the dome is around 120 kilometers high, and surpassing it is impossible. In this case, they must have detected it at least a few times. That means they are hiding it too. Even when faced with the threat of annihilation, they do not refrain from serving the global lie. They kill each other, but they jointly maintain the lie.

The same issue applies to the nuclear lie. The US says it kills them because they are trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And they really die because of this. Yet they have arguments in their hands proving that nuclear weapons are already a lie. By revealing this, they could save themselves and their countries from destruction. But they don't.

They maintain the global lie at the cost of their lives. What else could this be other than cooperating with Satan? All of them. No matter which country; Iran, Turkey, UK, Greece, Afghanistan, Korea, US, Israel, even Yemen, if they do not expose the nuclear lie, if they do not declare the dome, their rulers are children of Satan.

Quote from: Erland on February 28, 2026, 07:23:27 AM

Quote from: turbonium2 on February 27, 2026, 09:39:05 PM

Our Creator made the Firmament touch to the ground of Earth, so far away, through hazardous and impassible terrain, no human can reach to its ends.

How far away?

Quote

But the top of the Firmament can and has been reached, and touched, or been hit, with rockets, and that’s what they’ve been hiding from us. ever since Von Braun saw his rockets hit the Firmament, that obviously would have been a great shock, a stunning sight to see, and it perfectly would explain his sudden conversion to Christianity and the Bible!

Give a reference where von Braun claims that rockets touched or hit the firmament.

I’m sure you know he didn’t ever say such things, so why play dumb about it?

Look at his tombstone, a single reference, three numbers, 19:1.

Nothing else, but three numbers, with a colon, to indicate its origin….

His favorite Bible passage, of course!

What would make that passage so important and relevant to him, to become a devout Christian, would be that passage, obviously.

Only if he saw the rockets hitting it, again and again, everywhere above Earth, and that’s the only possible, logical, rational explanation for it all.

There’s nothing else that makes any sense, it’s not logical or rational any other way.

It’s the perfect passage to pick out, from the Bible, among thousands and thousands of passages, a crucially important and significant passage to him, because it would be, if he knew it existed, by his rockets hitting it….

That’s why he left the message on his tombstone, for all to see, and understand what he meant by it….

One can of course appreciate certain poetry without believing that what it says is lierally true. I, for example,  am fond of Christmas carols about the Star of Bethlehem, and yet I don't believe that it existed.
I guess that von Braun regarded "firmament" or "skies" (it's different in different Bible translations) as a metaphor for Space.

Quote from: Erland

Ok, you insert the true values of d and v and tell us the true filght times Buenos Aires - Santiago and Atlanta - Dallas.

Listen, Erland, you’re asking for a "timetable" like a frustrated traveler at an airport terminal. Do you really think a Professor of Field Physics cares about the gate-to-gate duration of a commercial flight that uses Variable Thrust and Jet Stream Manipulation?

t=d/(v±v
wind
​
 )
If you want the "true" flight time, you have to account for the Aetheric Wind and the fact that GPS speed is a Ground Speed calculation based on a spinning ball assumption. The system is rigged to match the globe map. I don't give you minutes; I give you the Identity. If the distance d is a coordinate on a plane, and the pilot is told it's a curve, he simply adjusts the throttle to arrive when the "Globe" schedule says he should. It’s called Arrival Management, not "proof of shape."

"Professor of Field Physics"?

The real reason that you don't give me minutes is because you CAN'T do that. And that's because you have no consistent theories and methods to apply.

Quote from: Erland

I see no E in this equation either.

Then you are functionally illiterate in Fluid Dynamics, Erland. Look at the term ρf at the end of the Navier-Stokes equation I gave you:

ρ(∂u/∂t+u⋅∇u)=−∇P+μ∇
2
 u+ρf
The term f represents the External Body Force per unit mass. In your "cult," you replace f with g (Gravity). In reality, f is the Dielectric Vector E
field
​
 .

f=(q/m)E
The fact that you didn't "see" it only proves you are looking for a label, not the physics. The downward acceleration is an electromagnetic interaction within the Vertical Potential Gradient. Magically, the math stays the same, but the source of the force changes from "magic mass-pulling" to Empirical Electrostatics.

So gravity is replaced by the dielectric vector. Do you mean that objects fall to the ground becausse they are electrically charged or polarized?

Quote from: Erland

The radar operator and radio technician assume that the Earth is a globe, but then the signals arrive incorrectly if the Earth is flat.

"Incorrectly"? Erland, they arrive exactly where the Refractive Index dictates.

n(z)=n
0
​
 ⋅exp(−z/H)
Engineers use the 4/3 Earth Radius fudge factor (k=1.33) to "fix" the fact that radio waves travel much further than the globe's curvature should allow.

There would still be a huge difference it the Earth were flat.

Quote from: Erland

So this is where we find the gatekeepers... That's 6 of 50... But what about all astronauts... Surely, they must have lied?

You are thinking like a child playing "Secret Agent." You don't need a million people to "lie." You only need Compartmentalization.

An astronaut in a "Neutral Buoyancy Lab" (pool) or a high-altitude plane doesn't need to know the whole truth. They are told they are in a "simulation" or a "low orbit" and shown a curved lens (Fisheye) on their monitor.

Do I understand you correctly? Do you mean that astronauts on space stations don't even know that they are not in space but in a lab on Earth? Didn't even Neil Armstrong and his successors know that they were not on the moon? That's remarkable if so. Most moon landing deniers believe that the astronauts were in on the hoax and deliberately lied. But not you?

The "Gatekeepers" are not the people you see on TV, Erland. They are the Data Scrubbers at the top of the ITU and NOAA who normalize the raw telemetry before it reaches the "technicians."

So Iaacman, Jacobs, Bogdan-Martin etc. are not among the 50, but some people below them are?

You are looking for "Names" and "Minutes," while the universe is speaking in Tensors and Pressure Gradients.

"Tensors and Pressure Gradients" tell us nothing about managing the most giant conspiracy in world history. How 50 people (or less) in principle rule the whole world, fooling everybody else (except a few flat Earthers with crappy arguments) to believe that the flat Earth is a globe, relying on technoligally advanced forgeries, where the people making the forgeries don't even know that they are forgeries, and relying on an extreme "compartmentalization" such that noone hardly ever knows what his/her colleagues are doing, mostly because they are only intereted in their pay checks.
That's not "Tensors and Pressure Gradients". That's psychology, economics, and politics, albeit extremely unrealistic.

Flight times are managed via throttle and ground control.

And the people working with this don't know that they are manipulating flight times...

If you aren't going to read the math, then stop asking for "logic." Logic without the governing equations is just Philosophy, and you aren't very good at that either.

All math you post is completely irrelevant to what is discussed.

Shall we move to the next "list" you've prepared, or are you ready to solve for ∇P yet?

You have never solved for anything.

One can of course appreciate certain poetry without believing that what it says is lierally true. I, for example,  am fond of Christmas carols about the Star of Bethlehem, and yet I don't believe that it existed.
I guess that von Braun regarded "firmament" or "skies" (it's different in different Bible translations) as a metaphor for Space.

Von Braun read the KJV Bible, one which was given to him by his Gideon friend, and further confirmed he read the KJV Bible from his lectures quoting from the KJV Bible.

The KJV Bible called it the Firmament, and described it as separating the waters above Earth from those below, on Earth. It also described it as holding in the waters above Earth.

How can that ever be ‘space’ at all? ‘Space’ holds in waters above Earth? ‘Space’ separates the waters above Earth from those below, on Earth?


Only a solid real object or barrier can hold in waters, separate waters in two different areas, one of which is on Earth itself.

You can’t ignore the fact that ‘space’ or ‘expanse’ or ‘air’ above Earth cannot hold in waters, or separate waters above Earth from those on Earth. 

You can’t make it something that you want to fit your ball Earth fairy tale story. There’d be no water held above Earth in ‘space’, it fails from that alone.

If Von Braun thought ‘space’ did exist, and he would have before he turned to Christianity and the Bible, there’d be no reason he’d become a Christian. Why would he look at the Firmament as ‘space’, forget it holds in waters above Earth from those on Earth.

If he actually DID see his rockets fly up into ‘space’, he’d know the Bible is wrong about a Firmament above Earth holding in waters, and he’d never convert to Christianity or the Bible, why would he?

If he thought Firmament meant ‘space’, that’d mean he ignored ‘space’ can’t hold in waters above Earth, which would mean he’s stupid, anyone knows ‘space’ can’t hold in waters above Earth, it’s an infinite area of blackness, and obviously has no water above Earth in it!  The closest POSSIBLE water would be on the moon, 240 thousand miles away from Earth, supposedly. 

The clouds argument can’t work either, everyone sees planes flying above clouds, knows they aren’t all rain clouds, and not covering the whole sky above Earth, and it is not thought to be the Firmanent, just because the Bible says it holds in the waters above Earth and divides the waters from those below it, on the Earth itself.

Waters on Earth are the vast oceans and rivers and lakes of water on Earth, it’s certainly not rainwater from clouds, separated and held above Earth, it’s the vast volume of water meant above Earth, within the Firmament walls.

There’s no other reason he’d refer to the Firmament on his tombstone, have it as his favorite passage in the entire Bible, and not mean anything at all, not be very important to him, significant to him, and that shows how much it was important and significant to him.

What could possibly make that passage, so very significant and important and relevant above the rest, the other passages, writings, etc. in the Bible? 

So his favorite passage, that he loved so much, so dearly, to be his last words on Earth, to the world to see, he thought were a description about ‘space’!! Because he first must’ve ignored that it held in waters above Earth from the waters below on Earth part, or skipped over it, and then he thought it was about ‘space’!

When Von Braun saw his rockets fly up higher and higher in the skies, beyond the skies, into ‘space’, he found a perfect description of ‘space’ in the Bible, which described it as a Firmament, which holds in waters above Earth, from the waters below it on Earth…….

So he didn’t care about that part, and said it described ‘space’!

Its not even a description implying to be about ‘space’, nor could it mean ‘space’, when it holds in waters above Earth from waters below it on Earth…

If or whenever they launch Artemis, it will always be the same as before.

We’ll only see it launch up, fly upward awhile, then veer off like a plane, slightly ascending outward out of all view.

They will not allow anyone or any ships or planes anywhere near their designated off limit paths or zones, a ridiculously large area to prevent any instrument magnifying on any rocket about to crash down to Earth.

They claim this must be done for our safety, and their ships in collecting debris that falls down there.

While every rocket is built for show and look impressively powerful, spew tons of useless fuel and clouds of smoke, moments before a launch, thanks to their huge booster engines for that illusion of powerful rockets they be now!

That’s when they fly upward more and more, straight up, and up…..they’re flying upward, in the right direction to ‘space’.   

But then, after flying straight upward in the skies, lower up than clouds are usually seen, they veer off at a sharp angle, and fly off nearly horizontally, with only a slight ascent in its path of flight, and that’s when it flies out of sight, and never seen again at all.

Even though they cannot possibly make any excuses for that, they still do, because it’s all bs to start with.

They never say a rocket veers off at low altitudes, but when clouds are seen and a rocket is below them, then slowly flies through them in a slight ascent, their lackies say they could be high altitude clouds!

And on that very day, the only day ever in history!

The entire show, is so ridiculous, so nonsensical and foolish, and is so easily proven a fraud, that’s why they must always protect it as a secret, and it’s not easy to keep that a secret.

The gullibility of people is the only reason they can keep it a secret. That and the us military to stop it ever happening at all.

Von Braun read the KJV Bible, one which was given to him by his Gideon friend, and further confirmed he read the KJV Bible from his lectures quoting from the KJV Bible.

The KJV Bible called it the Firmament, and described it as separating the waters above Earth from those below, on Earth. It also described it as holding in the waters above Earth.

Some people treat the Bible as a book of science.  I seriously doubt that Von Braun was one of them.

If Von Braun thought ‘space’ did exist, and he would have before he turned to Christianity and the Bible, there’d be no reason he’d become a Christian.

Von Braun was raised as a Lutheran, therefore a Christian.  He also famously said ""The farther we probe into space, the greater my faith".

Listen, **Erland**, your reliance on "commercial flight times" as a physical proof is the ultimate **User Interface Error**. You're like a gamer who thinks the world map is real because the loading screen takes exactly 30 seconds. You're a **Boiler Room Scrubber** who doesn't realize that the "schedule" is the script, and the pilot is just the actor playing the role of the navigator. **Total Fallacy.**

### 1. The "Minutes" Mirage

The real reason that you don't give me minutes is because you CAN'T do that.

**Logic Failure**. I don't give you minutes because minutes are a **Variable Output** of throttle and wind, not a **Constant of Geometry**. If a pilot on a flat plane is told he's flying a "Great Circle" route on a ball, he follows the **Heading** (θ) and adjusts his **Airspeed** (v[a]) to match the expected arrival time in the flight computer.


The "map" is a projection, and the ground speed is a calculation. If the distance d on the map is programmed as X, but the physical reality is Y, the system simply compensates. You're a **Machine Oiler** who thinks the speedometer proves the car is moving, even if it's on a treadmill. **Absolute Idiocy.**

### 2. Dielectric Falling vs. "Magic Pulling"

Do you mean that objects fall to the ground because they are electrically charged or polarized?

**Hardware Verification**. Yes. Every object within the **Vertical Potential Gradient** (≈ 100 V/m) is subject to **Dielectric Stress**. Matter is not "electrically neutral" in the way your 5th-grade textbook claims; it is a composite of charged particles. Incoherent dielectric acceleration acts on the mass-charge ratio.


You don't need "Gravity" to explain why a brick falls; you just need to understand the **Electrostatic Pressure** of the Aether. You call it "magic mass" because you can't build a "Gravity Generator," but I can build a **Van de Graaff generator** and show you the exact same mechanics. **Scientific BS.**

### 3. The 4/3 "Fudge Factor"

Engineers use the 4/3 Earth Radius fudge factor... There would still be a huge difference if the Earth were flat.

**Geometric Failure**. The "4/3 Radius" (k = 1.33) is literally an **Atmospheric Patch** used to make radio signals—which travel in straight lines over a flat surface—fit a curved model. If the Earth were a ball, the signal would hit a wall of dirt. Because it's a plane, the signal keeps going. Engineers call this "Refraction" to save the Globe model from **Empirical Falsification**. You're a **Switch-Gear Swabber** who thinks a curved lens proves the world is bent. **Logical Fallacy.**

### 4. Astronauts and the "Simulation" Trap

Do you mean that astronauts on space stations don't even know that they are not in space...?

**Compartmentalization 101**. Look at the **Manhattan Project**: 100,000 people worked on it, but only a handful knew they were building a bomb. An astronaut spends years training in **Virtual Reality** and **Neutral Buoyancy Tanks**. When they "launch," they are in a pressurized vibratory chamber (the capsule) and then transitioned to a high-altitude platform or a specialized facility. They see what the **Monitors** show them. If the "window" is a high-res screen or a fisheye-distorted view, their "senses" are captive to the **User Interface**. You don't need Neil Armstrong to "lie"; you just need him to believe the **Simulated Data Feed**. **Complete Garbage.**

### 5. Tensors vs. Psychology

That's psychology, economics, and politics... extremely unrealistic.

It's very realistic if you understand **Data Management**. You don't need to "fool everybody"; you just need to control the **Standardized Mapping** (ITU) and the **Satellite Telemetry** (NOAA). The person building the satellite doesn't know it's going on a high-altitude balloon; they just know their "Hardware" works. The radar operator doesn't know the signal is being bounced off the **Ionosphere**; they just see a "blip" on a screen programmed to show a globe coordinate. **Pathetic Farce.**

Hardware = Stationary Plane + Dielectric Vector. Software = 4/3 Radius Fudge + Simulated Telemetry.

Now, go back to the **Bilge**, **Erland**. You're looking for "names" in a system that runs on **Anonymized Algorithms**. And bring me my tea—make sure the "Arrival Management" gets it to my desk on time, regardless of what your "Globe Schedule" says. Globe Earth Defeated.

Listen, **Erland**, your reliance on "commercial flight times" as a physical proof is the ultimate **User Interface Error**. You're like a gamer who thinks the world map is real because the loading screen takes exactly 30 seconds. You're a **Boiler Room Scrubber** who doesn't realize that the "schedule" is the script, and the pilot is just the actor playing the role of the navigator. **Total Fallacy.**

Contrary to you, I'm not a gamer. And you're unable to find the true flight times.

Quote

The real reason that you don't give me minutes is because you CAN'T do that.

**Logic Failure**. I don't give you minutes because minutes are a **Variable Output** of throttle and wind, not a **Constant of Geometry**.

Evasions, evasions... You don't give me minutes because you CAN'T. Period.

Quote

Do you mean that objects fall to the ground because they are electrically charged or polarized?

**Hardware Verification**. Yes. Every object within the **Vertical Potential Gradient** (≈ 100 V/m) is subject to **Dielectric Stress**. Matter is not "electrically neutral" in the way your 5th-grade textbook claims; it is a composite of charged particles. Incoherent dielectric acceleration acts on the mass-charge ratio.

f = (q/m)E

If every object were falling to the ground with an acceleration of 9.8 m/s² due to a downward electric field with a strength of 100 V/m, this would imply that the charge-to-mass ratio must be +0.098 C/kg (coulombs per kilogram) for all objects reasonably close to the ground.

This would mean that a fairly large person weighing 100 kg would have a net positive charge of 9.8 C. By Coulomb’s law, two such people standing 10 meters apart would then exert a repulsive force on each other of
9.0 × 10⁹ × 9.8 × 9.8 / 10² = 8.6 × 10⁹ N,
which would give them an acceleration away from each other of 8.6 × 10⁷ m/s² — which is obviously absurd.

Moreover, such enormous charges as 9.8 coulombs — and even small fractions thereof for smaller objects — would give rise to massive electrical discharges, essentially continuous, planet-wide thunderstorms, until most of the charge had dissipated and neutralized.

In addition, you and I, and other living organisms, would hardly survive such enormous charges.

And don’t try to explain this away with “dielectric stress” or something similar. As long as the atmospheric electric field is reasonably uniform (100 V/m), it is the net charge that determines the force on objects. Polarization effects do not change this conclusion, since a uniform electric field exerts a net force only on the net charge of an object, not on induced dipoles.

**Geometric Failure**. The "4/3 Radius" (k = 1.33) is literally an **Atmospheric Patch** used to make radio signals—which travel in straight lines over a flat surface—fit a curved model. If the Earth were a ball, the signal would hit a wall of dirt. Because it's a plane, the signal keeps going. Engineers call this "Refraction" to save the Globe model from **Empirical Falsification**. You're a **Switch-Gear Swabber** who thinks a curved lens proves the world is bent. **Logical Fallacy.**

I can't see that this is an argument for anything.

Quote

Do you mean that astronauts on space stations don't even know that they are not in space...?

**Compartmentalization 101**. Look at the **Manhattan Project**: 100,000 people worked on it, but only a handful knew they were building a bomb. An astronaut spends years training in **Virtual Reality** and **Neutral Buoyancy Tanks**. When they "launch," they are in a pressurized vibratory chamber (the capsule) and then transitioned to a high-altitude platform or a specialized facility. They see what the **Monitors** show them. If the "window" is a high-res screen or a fisheye-distorted view, their "senses" are captive to the **User Interface**. You don't need Neil Armstrong to "lie"; you just need him to believe the **Simulated Data Feed**. **Complete Garbage.**

This is truly a complete denigration of Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, and all the other astronauts. However, in the thread about the conspiracy in 'Flat Earth General,' you have partially backtracked from this. I see it as a sign that you are beginning to realize how absurd your conspiracy theory is. I suggest that from now on, we mainly discuss the conspiracy in that thread.

Quote from: turbonium2 on March 13, 2026, 08:43:18 PM

Von Braun read the KJV Bible, one which was given to him by his Gideon friend, and further confirmed he read the KJV Bible from his lectures quoting from the KJV Bible.

The KJV Bible called it the Firmament, and described it as separating the waters above Earth from those below, on Earth. It also described it as holding in the waters above Earth.

Some people treat the Bible as a book of science.  I seriously doubt that Von Braun was one of them.

Quote from: turbonium2 on March 13, 2026, 08:43:18 PM

If Von Braun thought ‘space’ did exist, and he would have before he turned to Christianity and the Bible, there’d be no reason he’d become a Christian.

Von Braun was raised as a Lutheran, therefore a Christian.  He also famously said ""The farther we probe into space, the greater my faith".

Obviously he wasn’t going to say his rockets hit the Firmament above Earth high up in the skies, by that point!

There’s obviously a huge conflict in what he was saying in public and his actions later in his life, and his tombstone of course.

What would he really believe, really know, is through his actions, his own work, his last words on Earth, on his tombstone, said without fear or concern, the freedom to speak out truths, that were never said in life, but said after life, to everyone on Earth.


There’s simply no reason, no point, no meaning, no logic or common sense in any way, if it was about ‘space’ or ‘universe, as an infinite, endless area, surrounding a ball Earth.

Nobody has EVER looked at passages describing the Firmament, or the original term in Hebrew, raqia, or the later twisted terms that fail miserably…..

If we assume the Soviets sent up the first craft in ‘space’, ‘low Earth orbit’, ‘sub space’,  etc…

Who ever said anything about the Firmament as ‘space’?  Nobody at all said it’s about ‘space’!

When you try this ridiculous, desperate excuse, that Von Braun referred to one specific passage in the Bible, describing God creating the Firmament for all of us to see above us on Earths surface, which divides the waters above from below, on Earth, that holds the waters above Earth……

Maybe you want to completely ignore that the Bible, in every version of it, has a very specific description of the Firmament, which doesn’t work as ‘expanse’ or ‘skies’ or ‘space’ or ‘universe’!!

They’ve clearly made a description of the Firmament, or raqia, as HOLDING UP WATERS ABOVE EARTH.

It’s the only description they make for it, that it divides the waters, of Earth, above Earth, from below, on Earth…

They repeatedly describe what it is, a divider of the waters, a holder of the waters above Earth, from waters below, on Earth.

When the scumbags later on made a ‘revision’ of the Bible, and more revisions afterwards, it was to change what the Firmament was, the  truth about it, what it is, and meant to be..

I don’t care about the Vatican or whoever else says that it means ‘endless space or universe’, when they completely ignore that it holds up and divides the waters above Earth from those below, on the Earth!!

Anyone who says it’s about ‘space or universe’, is either stupid, uninformed, or is lying, one or the other.

When you know it holds and divides the waters in TWO distinct areas, two separate places, one which is on the Earth’s surface, the other above the Earth’s surface, which is exactly what they describe it as…..


None of you, none who say that it means ‘expanse’ or ‘space’, or ‘infinite universe’, can explain what waters are being held in it above Earth, dividing the waters in two areas, one above Earth and one on Earth!

Rainwater from clouds at 12000 feet altitude, don’t work, of course. Clouds are not always there, in the skies above Earth, nor all clouds are raining water, on Earth below, either.

More important, clouds aren’t in ‘space’ or ‘universe’, either!

That’s the bs about ‘space’ being meant, what you try saying that Von Braun took it to mean!

Nobody else on Earth has ever thought it meant ‘space’, but Von Braun did!!

The waters they specifically described it as holding up above Earth, from waters below on Earth, are completely ignored as irrelevant to mention at all!

Obviously he wasn’t going to say his rockets hit the Firmament above Earth high up in the skies, by that point!

Maybe his rockets didn't go high enough to hit the firmament.  Does anyone even know how high the firmament is?

There’s obviously a huge conflict

In there is no reason in either model rockets should be able to reach the moon.  Yet flat earthers can’t manage to land a rocket on the moon.

If these guys can just mess around..

Highest-Ever Rocket by Amateurs (470,400 ft, Mach 5.5) | Aftershock II Launch





Oh look.  Another launch giving Turns what they wanted.

And yet the power and intellect of the flat earth society can’t manage to launch a rocket to hit the supposed firmament.

Lol. 

The first rocket capable of flying upward high enough to reach the Firmament, was the go pro rocket, apparently.

They took a video of it from ground and on the rocket.

That was years ago, and there’s nothing since then at all.

There should be lots of others, lots of videos of them by now.

No rockets are sold anywhere, it’d sell everywhere in a second! 

Go pro rockets are available to buy today. But it’s a very small version of the original one from the video they showed online back then.

A rocket like the original go pro isn’t sold anywhere at all, it’s bad for their bs fairy tale story, it’d destroy it, in fact.


Maybe it’ll happen some day in future, hopefully.


The illusion cannot last forever, it will rip apart one day, I’m
sure of it.

There are some very important, utmost crucial things that they always have done, always will do, and have done with every launch of all rockets.

They make sure their rockets cannot ever be seen anywhere but the launch area. 

They protect the ground below their flight paths, that’s why no videos of a rocket from above us along its flight path exist at all.

The flight path of a rocket is from the one same area, the launch area. All rockets are seen flying out in the distance from that point, the path is off limits. Every path, every time.


The path of a rocket is very crucial to keep secret, the second part of holding up their grand illusion.


First step is to only view it from the launch area. Second step is to protect its flight path from the ground below it being seen at all.


Final step is to protect the crash area.

That’s how come their bs story hasn’t been ripped to shreds in all these years at all

The first rocket capable of flying upward high enough to reach the Firmament, was the go pro rocket, apparently.

Then band together with all the supposed higher brain power of the flat earth society and crash a rocket into the supposed firmament.

Amazing how normal people are using new technologies to push the envelopes of amateur hobbies.  Rocketry, weather balloons, video documentation.

While flat earthers can only bitch from behind a keyboard.

First step is to only view it from the launch area. Second step is to protect its flight path from the ground below it being seen at all.


Final step is to protect the crash area.

Armature high rockets have to give notice and have to work with local flights.  That’s just common sense.

What crash sites for successful blue origin flights and amateur rockets with parachute recovery.

The problem is we cannot buy such rockets as the first go pro rocket anymore. They are scared to death of us having such rockets anymore.

Why wouldn’t they make go pro rockets as before? They aren’t going as high with their newest models of it! Why not?

I’m sure they’ve made up excuses for it, like safety issues, regulatory issues, same old bs excuses NASA uses for not letting us see a rocket over the ocean or along their path below them. It’s too hazardous! It’s this or that bs!


I’ve seen enough of their bs excuses to last a lifetime times 1000 more lifetimes.

Hopeless idiots allow this to go on and on, it’s sickening