How much do you actually know?

Self idolatrists like Bumblebriefs will always think what they think is right regardless of evidence.

And like you?

I find it strange that Jack Black constantly harasses Bumblebriefs for doing the very thing he advocates.

You mean the thing you constantly lie about to pretend I advocate for it because you cannot show any fault with which I actually advocate for.
What you are doing is the very thing you are going off at bulma for.
You have constructed for yourself an elaborate fantasy which must be right. And you ignore everything that shows that fantasy is wrong, and insist on repeating that fantasy all over the place.

See the above statement from you? How you state that people like bulma (and you) completely ignore evidence?
That is the exact opposite of what I advocate.
Instead, it is far more in line with what you advocate.
Where if you have evidence that shows an expert is wrong, you should just ignore it and blindly accept whatever the expert says.

Your post is summing up how you act all the time.

Self idolatrists like Bumblebriefs will always think what they think is right regardless of evidence. Facts and the truth have no meaning or relevance in their world. I think therefore I am… converts into whatever I think is right by virtue of it having been thought by me.
In the minds of such people there is no chance of them ever being wrong, therefore all else must be wrong.
Such delusional people have no ability to see the truth even when it stares them straight in the face.
Evidence that proves them wrong is all around them 24/7 yet their ability for self deception is such that they see their own personal experiences as being all, as being the way to the actual truth. I find it strange that Jack Black constantly harasses Bumblebriefs for doing the very thing he advocates.

I would add that flatearthery is the way we all view the world up until age 4 or 5 when we are taught at school that outside our little world, the entire world is a globe. Flatearthery can therefore be looked upon as a return to childhood before school, to a simpler time in life, before any mainstream learning or responsibility.

The funny thing is, I pushed scepti and others to demonstrate how their mode of thinking enriches their lives or brings them closer to God, but nothing - cricket noises.

Jack and his beanstalk called Bumblebee love their personal experiences to inform their view of the world. If they dont experience it personally, it either didn't happen or it can't be true.

I'll have to have a look in the mental health manual and see what the official name for this delusional thinking is called.

Jack, stop playing with your beanstalk.

I would add that flatearthery is the way we all view the world up until age 4 or 5 when we are taught at school that outside our little world, the entire world is a globe. Flatearthery can therefore be looked upon as a return to childhood before school, to a simpler time in life, before any mainstream learning or responsibility.

And I would counter that most kids wouldn't think about the shape.
Those that do would likely see hills and valleys and not think it is flat.

Jack and his beanstalk called Bumblebee love their personal experiences to inform their view of the world. If they dont experience it personally, it either didn't happen or it can't be true.

Great job being just as dishonest as Timmy.
Are you sure you aren't a closet FEer?

I'll have to have a look in the mental health manual and see what the official name for this delusional thinking is called.

Make sure you check yourself first.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 01, 2024, 11:51:26 PM

Self idolatrists like Bumblebriefs will always think what they think is right regardless of evidence.

And like you?

Quote from: Timeisup on February 01, 2024, 11:51:26 PM

I find it strange that Jack Black constantly harasses Bumblebriefs for doing the very thing he advocates.

You mean the thing you constantly lie about to pretend I advocate for it because you cannot show any fault with which I actually advocate for.
What you are doing is the very thing you are going off at bulma for.
You have constructed for yourself an elaborate fantasy which must be right. And you ignore everything that shows that fantasy is wrong, and insist on repeating that fantasy all over the place.

See the above statement from you? How you state that people like bulma (and you) completely ignore evidence?
That is the exact opposite of what I advocate.
Instead, it is far more in line with what you advocate.
Where if you have evidence that shows an expert is wrong, you should just ignore it and blindly accept whatever the expert says.

Your post is summing up how you act all the time.

But you do Jack, you do. You constantly ask for proof and answers from others yet never ever provide them yourself.

For example
Where do you source your knowledge on the cosmos or the world of the sub atomic?

How do you judge expert knowledge?

How do you differentiate fact from fiction?

But you do Jack, you do. You constantly ask for proof and answers from others yet never ever provide them yourself.

Lying wont save you.

I answer plenty of questions, when they are relevant, rather than a pathetic temper tantrum, and when they are based upon what I have actually said.

Conversely, you flee from questions because they show you are spouting pure BS.

Again, where have I ever claimed that all my knowledge comes from personal experience?
Where have I ever claimed that people should just reject anything an expert says?

Where have I ever advocated for what bulma is doing?
NOWHERE.

These are just your pathetic strawmen.

For example
Where do you source your knowledge on the cosmos or the world of the sub atomic?

See, this is an example of a question based upon your strawman.
You lie by falsely claiming I claim all me knowledge comes from personal experience, to pretend that if I say anything other than personal experience I have been lying.

I'm not going to answer this until you admit your prior claims about me are lies.

How do you judge expert knowledge?

How do you differentiate fact from fiction?

I already answered this, I think it was in the other thread.
Only for you to ignore it.

Why do you keep asking questions just to ignore the answer when it doesn't match your fantasy?

I would add that flatearthery is the way we all view the world up until age 4 or 5 when we are taught at school that outside our little world, the entire world is a globe. Flatearthery can therefore be looked upon as a return to childhood before school, to a simpler time in life, before any mainstream learning or responsibility.

The funny thing is, I pushed scepti and others to demonstrate how their mode of thinking enriches their lives or brings them closer to God, but nothing - cricket noises.

You never pushed me on anything like that.
Whatever anyone thinks about whatever shape their Earth may be to them will only enrich their lives or not, mentally and that includes yourself being schooled into a shape coerced into you.

As for a god. Do you believe in a god and if so how did it come about?
Schooled or appearance from this god?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on February 02, 2024, 02:39:14 PM

I would add that flatearthery is the way we all view the world up until age 4 or 5 when we are taught at school that outside our little world, the entire world is a globe. Flatearthery can therefore be looked upon as a return to childhood before school, to a simpler time in life, before any mainstream learning or responsibility.

The funny thing is, I pushed scepti and others to demonstrate how their mode of thinking enriches their lives or brings them closer to God, but nothing - cricket noises.

You never pushed me on anything like that.
Whatever anyone thinks about whatever shape their Earth may be to them will only enrich their lives or not, mentally and that includes yourself being schooled into a shape coerced into you.

As for a god. Do you believe in a god and if so how did it come about?
Schooled or appearance from this god?

How does the Earth possibly being flat, enrich your life, sceptimatic? How? I did push uou on this and how it bringscone closer to their god, and nothing from you.

I heard about God from a church when I was a boy, and through experimentation proved to myself God is real and you can have a close bond with God.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 20, 2024, 05:13:03 AM

But you do Jack, you do. You constantly ask for proof and answers from others yet never ever provide them yourself.

Lying wont save you.

I answer plenty of questions, when they are relevant, rather than a pathetic temper tantrum, and when they are based upon what I have actually said.

Conversely, you flee from questions because they show you are spouting pure BS.

Again, where have I ever claimed that all my knowledge comes from personal experience?
Where have I ever claimed that people should just reject anything an expert says?

Where have I ever advocated for what bulma is doing?
NOWHERE.

These are just your pathetic strawmen.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 20, 2024, 05:13:03 AM

For example
Where do you source your knowledge on the cosmos or the world of the sub atomic?

See, this is an example of a question based upon your strawman.
You lie by falsely claiming I claim all me knowledge comes from personal experience, to pretend that if I say anything other than personal experience I have been lying.

I'm not going to answer this until you admit your prior claims about me are lies.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 20, 2024, 05:13:03 AM

How do you judge expert knowledge?

How do you differentiate fact from fiction?

I already answered this, I think it was in the other thread.
Only for you to ignore it.

Why do you keep asking questions just to ignore the answer when it doesn't match your fantasy?

The only fantasy around here is your own where you are the omnipotent expert who knows all.

The fact that you say this:-

“by falsely claiming I claim all me knowledge comes from personal experience,”

Implies that some of what you repeat here has, as you like to put it, been blindly accepted by you!

I thought you were dead against blindly accepting things.

Explain that Jack.

How does the Earth possibly being flat, enrich your life, sceptimatic? How?

I've just explained.
No matter what my mindset of what Earth may potentially be it can only enrich my mind, or not, mentally, not physically.
Only Earth that I  walk on and live as part of and what I physically do on and within it can only enrich my life and may also do the opposite in terms of physical.
The reality of that is, that none of us know for sure what Earth is.
You think you know because you were schooled/coerced into a narrative and you didn't grow out of that.

I grew out of your narrative and now have my thoughts which may or may not be entirely correct or even marginally.
Until we know the truth we are all playing guessing games based on what we perceive and deduce from what we have in our view or physical abilities to experiment, down to end products of theoretical about them, which again may not be correct.

I did push uou on this and how it bringscone closer to their god, and nothing from you.

I don't believe in any god so none of that applies to me.
I grew out of a god just as I did with Santa Claus and the tooth fairy and so on and so on. I did this by applying logic but that certainly doesn't mean I don't respect people who do believe in a god but I can argue against that just as another could argue against me not believing in one. I just don't follow that god idolising idea.

I heard about God from a church when I was a boy, and through experimentation proved to myself God is real and you can have a close bond with God.

So you were coerced into beliving in a god and now you believe you proved there is one.
How exactly did you prove there is one?

The only fantasy around here is your own where you are the omnipotent expert who knows all.

You started off quite well. The problem here is that that is YOUR fantasy, not mine.

You are the one that keeps repeating this BS.
Yet you cannot find a single thing from me to support it.

The fact that you say this:-
“by falsely claiming I claim all me knowledge comes from personal experience,”
Implies that some of what you repeat here has, as you like to put it, been blindly accepted by you!

No it doesn't.
I also notice you just fleeing from your lies yet again.

I heard about God from a church when I was a boy, and through experimentation proved to myself God is real and you can have a close bond with God.

Just like kids believing in Santa, or an imaginary friend.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 01:19:45 AM

The only fantasy around here is your own where you are the omnipotent expert who knows all.

You started off quite well. The problem here is that that is YOUR fantasy, not mine.

You are the one that keeps repeating this BS.
Yet you cannot find a single thing from me to support it.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 01:19:45 AM

The fact that you say this:-
“by falsely claiming I claim all me knowledge comes from personal experience,”
Implies that some of what you repeat here has, as you like to put it, been blindly accepted by you!

No it doesn't.
I also notice you just fleeing from your lies yet again.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on February 21, 2024, 01:10:11 AM

I heard about God from a church when I was a boy, and through experimentation proved to myself God is real and you can have a close bond with God.

Just like kids believing in Santa, or an imaginary friend.

Take away 'lies' and 'fleeing' from your lexicon and you would be stuck for something to say.

The reality is Jack you like everyone else would be stuck without expert derived knowledge. Without it you yourself would know nothing, just like Bob. or even worse be delusional like Sceptamatic.

Rejecting all expert knowledge and you end up just like Sceptamatic OR accepting validated expert knowledge. So which is it Jack?

Take away 'lies' and 'fleeing' from your lexicon and you would be stuck for something to say.

So remove the ability to describe what you do?

I think I will keep it, and keep calling out what you do.

Have you found a quote yet? Or are you ready to admit you lied.

So which is it Jack?

I will stick with using my brain.
And that includes recognising false dichotomies when you present them.

Quote from: - "Because unlike you I say that everything can be questioned" on February 21, 2024, 02:50:59 AM

Take away 'lies' and 'fleeing' from your lexicon and you would be stuck for something to say.

So remove the ability to describe what you do?

I think I will keep it, and keep calling out what you do.

Have you found a quote yet? Or are you ready to admit you lied.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 02:50:59 AM

So which is it Jack?

I will stick with using my brain.
And that includes recognising false dichotomies when you present them.

You said:-

"I will stick with using my brain.
And that includes recognising false dichotomies when you present them."

An interesting statement that we can put to the test with one of your very own quotes.

You stated that :-

"Because unlike you I say that everything can be questioned"

Here we have a real dichotomy where you either agree with the statement or disagree. I think it's clear where we both stand on that one and I disagree.

The problem you have is you over estimate the ability of both yourself and man in general. You appear to place man above nature rather than just be part of it and merely an observer rather than an active driver. Most things are beyond the control of man and ultimately not open to active control but only observation.

That the sun burns Hydrogen into Helium is not something man has decided should happen rather it's something we have observed to be part of the natural world. You appear to suggest that you can have an opinion how nature works. You can't, no one can.

That the Moon is in orbit around the earth. This is a situation we had no hand in the solar system was here long before Homo arrived to see the Moon. We have no control over its nature nor orbit it is what it has always been. All we can do is observe and not have an alternative opinion that in reality is meaningless as no opinion can change nature as it is.

There are of course things that are not fully understood like magnetism, but I doubt you are in a position like most people to offer any real insight. While a true understanding has not yet been arrived at few people are in a position to give meaningful insights. Just because an area like magnetism is not fully understood it does not allow the ignorant who lack any real understanding of the subject to make pointless contributions that should not be taken seriously.

Just because you say :- "Because unlike you I say that everything can be questioned"  That everyone is in a position to pose a relevant and sensible question. I would argue that non-experts should avoid making comments about subjects they know nothing about. Going by the way you react to the statements made by Turbo about Saturn I would imagine you might agree.

Nuclear fusion is an area in the news that has not been mastered nor fully understood. Do you think you are in a position to offer any advice to those working in that specialised field of expertise? You say  "Because unlike you I say that everything can be questioned" what questions or words of wisdom could you contribute?

You said:-
"I will stick with using my brain.
And that includes recognising false dichotomies when you present them."

And I stand by it.

Conversely, you appear to want to stick with lies, strawmen and deflection.

Here we have a real dichotomy where you either agree with the statement or disagree. I think it's clear where we both stand on that one and I disagree.

Yes, you believe that your precious knowledge is above questioning.
i.e. you follow a cult.

You appear to place man above nature

Care to provide an example.
A direct quote from nature, where it says something I disagree with?

That the sun burns Hydrogen into Helium is not something man has decided should happen rather it's something we have observed to be part of the natural world.

It is actually a conclusion drawn from observations of the natural world.
Nature itself has not said that.

Also, it doesn't burn.
It fuses. And it is only one part of the process.

You appear to suggest that you can have an opinion how nature works. You can't, no one can.

Everyone can.
That doesn't mean everyone will be right.
Look at "experts" like Aristotle, that had the opinion that the natural state of everything was at rest.

Was it fine for him to have that opinion?
Or should that have been taken as what nature itself says, to dismiss Newton changing it.

I'm not saying that mankind can change nature. I'm saying mankind can question. And that is mainly directed at statements of other people.

I would argue that non-experts should avoid making comments about subjects they know nothing about.

Then you should remain silent.
Going to follow your own opinion?

I accept that non-experts can make comments.
Some times they can have an insight that experts don't, simply because they don't look at it the same way.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on February 21, 2024, 01:10:11 AM

How does the Earth possibly being flat, enrich your life, sceptimatic? How?

I've just explained.
No matter what my mindset of what Earth may potentially be it can only enrich my mind, or not, mentally, not physically.
Only Earth that I  walk on and live as part of and what I physically do on and within it can only enrich my life and may also do the opposite in terms of physical.
The reality of that is, that none of us know for sure what Earth is.
You think you know because you were schooled/coerced into a narrative and you didn't grow out of that.

I grew out of your narrative and now have my thoughts which may or may not be entirely correct or even marginally.
Until we know the truth we are all playing guessing games based on what we perceive and deduce from what we have in our view or physical abilities to experiment, down to end products of theoretical about them, which again may not be correct.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I did push uou on this and how it bringscone closer to their god, and nothing from you.

I don't believe in any god so none of that applies to me.
I grew out of a god just as I did with Santa Claus and the tooth fairy and so on and so on. I did this by applying logic but that certainly doesn't mean I don't respect people who do believe in a god but I can argue against that just as another could argue against me not believing in one. I just don't follow that god idolising idea.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I heard about God from a church when I was a boy, and through experimentation proved to myself God is real and you can have a close bond with God.

So you were coerced into beliving in a god and now you believe you proved there is one.
How exactly did you prove there is one?

Through prayer. But it was more proving how powerful a belief in a higher being can be, rather than proving the existence of the higher being itself. But don't worry, you're too old now and stuck in your ways to ever be able to muster the level of faith required and generate the extreme emotional commitment needed to make a prayer work. Creative visualisation is another name for it.

From your responses here, you're also not brave enough to even try, preferring to hide away from the world and your problems in a land of make believe the world is flat and a giant cell organism.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 21, 2024, 01:33:07 AM

Quote from: Smoke Machine on February 21, 2024, 01:10:11 AM

How does the Earth possibly being flat, enrich your life, sceptimatic? How?

I've just explained.
No matter what my mindset of what Earth may potentially be it can only enrich my mind, or not, mentally, not physically.
Only Earth that I  walk on and live as part of and what I physically do on and within it can only enrich my life and may also do the opposite in terms of physical.
The reality of that is, that none of us know for sure what Earth is.
You think you know because you were schooled/coerced into a narrative and you didn't grow out of that.

I grew out of your narrative and now have my thoughts which may or may not be entirely correct or even marginally.
Until we know the truth we are all playing guessing games based on what we perceive and deduce from what we have in our view or physical abilities to experiment, down to end products of theoretical about them, which again may not be correct.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I did push uou on this and how it bringscone closer to their god, and nothing from you.

I don't believe in any god so none of that applies to me.
I grew out of a god just as I did with Santa Claus and the tooth fairy and so on and so on. I did this by applying logic but that certainly doesn't mean I don't respect people who do believe in a god but I can argue against that just as another could argue against me not believing in one. I just don't follow that god idolising idea.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I heard about God from a church when I was a boy, and through experimentation proved to myself God is real and you can have a close bond with God.

So you were coerced into beliving in a god and now you believe you proved there is one.
How exactly did you prove there is one?

Through prayer. But it was more proving how powerful a belief in a higher being can be, rather than proving the existence of the higher being itself.

Basically, you're trying to say you asked something from your god and you believe it was answered so you now believe. Am I right to think this of you?
So although you were coerced into a belief you grew up not challenging it after you believed you asked for something and got it, even though you've likely asked for many things and not got them.

 But don't worry, you're too old now and stuck in your ways to ever be able to muster the level of faith required and generate the extreme emotional commitment needed to make a prayer work.

If I don't believe in a god then I'm not going to ask for anything from something that offers no inclination of being there for me.
I respect your belief in a god but I do not share it and I will question the existence of a god just as you're sort of berating me for not believing.

 Creative visualisation is another name for it.

I'd say that sounds about right and fair.

From your responses here, you're also not brave enough to even try, preferring to hide away from the world and your problems in a land of make believe the world is flat and a giant cell organism.

Nahhhh. I live on/in Earth just as you do and my life goes on just as your life does and everyone else.
What I think about what Earth is or whether a god exists or not is simply just that...my thoughts.

If I want to do experiments to try and figure out alternatives to what I've been schooled/coerced into believing then that's my enjoyment or struggle, whichever way issues arise.

Your belief in a god is your way to give meaning to your existence. You believe you live on a spinning globe in a space vacuum is your way of accepting what you deem as authority telling you that. You decide to read detective novels whether fiction or told as factual and being able to recite much of them is your way of being part of those novels.

Some people need ways to navigate through their life and we all go about it in different ways.

You may feel praying to your god is a comfort for you. To make you feel less lonely. To have an ally and a reason to follow to the end to be offered some kind of afterlife with your god.
You can pray to your god many times a day and be thought noi less intelligent or less stad=nding in your community.
I could pray to an invisible friend called Stan and believe Stan is answering my prayers. For that, I'd be classed as a nutter and for that, I'd have no standing in my community except to be known as a wacko.
I could argue for creative visualisation but what would that make me?

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 06:03:13 AM

You said:-
"I will stick with using my brain.
And that includes recognising false dichotomies when you present them."

And I stand by it.

Conversely, you appear to want to stick with lies, strawmen and deflection.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 06:03:13 AM

Here we have a real dichotomy where you either agree with the statement or disagree. I think it's clear where we both stand on that one and I disagree.

Yes, you believe that your precious knowledge is above questioning.
i.e. you follow a cult.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 06:03:13 AM

You appear to place man above nature

Care to provide an example.
A direct quote from nature, where it says something I disagree with?

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 06:03:13 AM

That the sun burns Hydrogen into Helium is not something man has decided should happen rather it's something we have observed to be part of the natural world.

It is actually a conclusion drawn from observations of the natural world.
Nature itself has not said that.

Also, it doesn't burn.
It fuses. And it is only one part of the process.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 06:03:13 AM

You appear to suggest that you can have an opinion how nature works. You can't, no one can.

Everyone can.
That doesn't mean everyone will be right.
Look at "experts" like Aristotle, that had the opinion that the natural state of everything was at rest.

Was it fine for him to have that opinion?
Or should that have been taken as what nature itself says, to dismiss Newton changing it.

I'm not saying that mankind can change nature. I'm saying mankind can question. And that is mainly directed at statements of other people.

Quote from: Timeisup on February 21, 2024, 06:03:13 AM

I would argue that non-experts should avoid making comments about subjects they know nothing about.

Then you should remain silent.
Going to follow your own opinion?

I accept that non-experts can make comments.
Some times they can have an insight that experts don't, simply because they don't look at it the same way.

Trying to get to the bottom of Jack Black’s raving is no easy task as he continually contradicts himself and tells the most blatant lies.

Jack said this:-
“And I challenge you to stop challenging about what you falsely claim I said and instead provide direct quotes from me, and that means with a reference to check.”

Ok Jack.

He says he answers questions all the time lets see if thats true:

“I answer them all the time.
What I don't answer are illegitimate questions put to me based upon a blatant misrepresentation of what I have said.”

So lets ask him some legitimate questions based on what he has said.

I said, rather inaccurately as it turns out and Jack corrected me:-

“That the sun burns Hydrogen into Helium is not something man has decided should happen rather it's something we have observed to be part of the natural world. You appear to suggest that you can have an opinion how nature works. You can't, no one can.”

Jack said:-
“Also, it doesn't burn.
It fuses. And it is only one part of the process.”

He was of course correct on the process, it is fusion that converts Hydrogen into Helium releasing energy thats allows for life here on earth. No fusion no us.

Jack also said:-
“You continually lie about what others say, you make up shit and pretend it must be true, you dodge questions which show your claims are pure BS.”

As you can see Im carefully using his own words.

Jack also said:-

“Again, for science EVERYTHING IS OPEN TO QUESTION!”

First legitimate question, you said the sun is powered by fusion and other processes. How do you know this to be true?

Do you think this is knowledge that is open to question by anyone and if so on what basis?

You also say:-
“Because unlike you I say that everything can be questioned.
I say that if your personal experience doesn't match what the experts say, or if you have questions about something that doesn't seem to make sense; then you are allowed to ask those questions and raised these issues. That you are allowed to investigate. That you can carry out experiments and observations yourself to see if they are consistent or contradictory.”

Flat earth believers say the sun is small as it looks small, that however negates the possibility of fusion as its currently understood. Do you think they have a legitimate belief based on their personal experience?

How can the fusion process happening in all stars be questioned through personal experience? How can any non-expert have a valid opinion?

 In reality very few things if any can be experienced personally when it comes to cosmic events.

Using you own belief that everything is open to question, how can cosmic events be questioned by non-experts when they lack the means to study and know them?

Given we ourselves only see a small part of our solar system via the naked eye with a very limited part of the electromagnetic spectrum. How are things like x-rays that are emitted by Neutron stars to be question by the non expert when they lack any means of detecting them? Or how about things like gravitational lensing, can you pass any meaningful comment on that?

There is a clear distinction between ignorant opinion free from evidence and expert opinion. While its valid for one astronomer to doubt the work of another working in the same area such as Neutron stars. Any opinion you or other non-expert had would be pretty much worthless as it would be based on nothing of any substance.

You also said:-
“The fundamental distinction is that I am asking people to prove things they have claimed.”

Im asking you to prove how you might go about questioning the following;-

Neutron stars and the mechanism by which they emit x-rays
The process of fusion that goes on inside main sequence stars like our Sun.

Just to remind you. What you said:-
“The fundamental distinction is that I am asking people to prove things they have claimed.”

You claim Im a member of some cult….prove it Jack.

Trying to get to the bottom of Jack Black’s raving is no easy task as he continually contradicts himself and tells the most blatant lies.

You mean YOU repeatedly contradict yourself and repeatedly lie about what I say to claim pure BS.

Jack said this:-
“And I challenge you to stop challenging about what you falsely claim I said and instead provide direct quotes from me, and that means with a reference to check.”

And you still don't provide quotes to back up the blatant lies you have made about me.

He says he answers questions all the time lets see if thats true

“I answer them all the time.
What I don't answer are illegitimate questions put to me based upon a blatant misrepresentation of what I have said.”

And notice they part at the end. I'm not going to answer BS you put to me based upon your blatant strawmen.

First legitimate question, you said the sun is powered by fusion and other processes. How do you know this to be true?

This is NOT a legitimate question.
This is a question based upon your strawman.
Your strawman where you wish to pretend that I say everything I know is from personal experience.
A question asked in the hopes that I will say I used expert knowledge/assistance to gain this knowledge so you can dishonestly pretend you were right all along and I was wrong.

So I will NOT answer that question.
At least not until you admit so many of your prior lies about me are blatant lies you have made up as part of a strawman to pretend you are right.

Do you think this is knowledge that is open to question by anyone and if so on what basis?

Yes. On the basis that in science EVERYTHING is open to question.

Flat earth believers say the sun is small as it looks small

And in doing so demonstrate a fundamental lack of understand of small vs far away.
They are allowed to question the size of the sun based upon that, and accept the explanation that objects far away can be big while having a small angular size.
They can further accept that the angular size does not change significantly through the day (although glare might), and this shows it is very far away.

Using you own belief that everything is open to question, how can cosmic events be questioned by non-experts when they lack the means to study and know them?

By asking questions about things which appear to not make sense.
By asking questions about what evidence there is to support the claims.
By asking questions about what equipment is needed to investigate the claims.
By asking questions about where to obtain such equipment to make their own observations.

There is a clear distinction between ignorant opinion free from evidence and expert opinion.

And notice how you now go to ignorant opinion rather than merely questioning?

Im asking you to prove how you might go about questioning the following;-

Already addressed above.

You claim Im a member of some cult….prove it Jack.

I have. Repeatedly.
You chose to defend the claim that the only way to understand the shape of Earth is to accept what experts say it is.
That is classic cult behaviour, where you just accept what the leader says. You are not allowed to question or reject or make your own mind up. All you are allowed to do is accept what the leaders say.

Likewise, when someone presented an argument allegedly showing that Earth must be larger than claimed, how did you respond? Not by trying to demonstrate any fault with the argument, but instead showing how it contradicts the claims of your leaders.

Again, classic cult behaviour.

Now, you claim:
"Jack Black live in fear of experts"
PROVE IT!

You imply that I think it is a crime to admit no knowledge with your claim:
"Its no crime to admit no knowledge on a subject unless you happen to be a libertarian flat earther or Jack Black"
PROVE IT!

You claim:
"Jack Black who would claim to know everything about it"
PROVE IT!

You claim:
"Most likely Jack Black will say he has set up camp on 67P and knows all!"
PROVE IT!

And that is just your claims from the OP.

Can you prove them? Or will you deflect yet again?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on February 21, 2024, 01:51:54 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 21, 2024, 01:33:07 AM

Quote from: Smoke Machine on February 21, 2024, 01:10:11 AM

How does the Earth possibly being flat, enrich your life, sceptimatic? How?

I've just explained.
No matter what my mindset of what Earth may potentially be it can only enrich my mind, or not, mentally, not physically.
Only Earth that I  walk on and live as part of and what I physically do on and within it can only enrich my life and may also do the opposite in terms of physical.
The reality of that is, that none of us know for sure what Earth is.
You think you know because you were schooled/coerced into a narrative and you didn't grow out of that.

I grew out of your narrative and now have my thoughts which may or may not be entirely correct or even marginally.
Until we know the truth we are all playing guessing games based on what we perceive and deduce from what we have in our view or physical abilities to experiment, down to end products of theoretical about them, which again may not be correct.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I did push uou on this and how it bringscone closer to their god, and nothing from you.

I don't believe in any god so none of that applies to me.
I grew out of a god just as I did with Santa Claus and the tooth fairy and so on and so on. I did this by applying logic but that certainly doesn't mean I don't respect people who do believe in a god but I can argue against that just as another could argue against me not believing in one. I just don't follow that god idolising idea.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I heard about God from a church when I was a boy, and through experimentation proved to myself God is real and you can have a close bond with God.

So you were coerced into beliving in a god and now you believe you proved there is one.
How exactly did you prove there is one?

Through prayer. But it was more proving how powerful a belief in a higher being can be, rather than proving the existence of the higher being itself.

Basically, you're trying to say you asked something from your god and you believe it was answered so you now believe. Am I right to think this of you?
So although you were coerced into a belief you grew up not challenging it after you believed you asked for something and got it, even though you've likely asked for many things and not got them.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 But don't worry, you're too old now and stuck in your ways to ever be able to muster the level of faith required and generate the extreme emotional commitment needed to make a prayer work.

If I don't believe in a god then I'm not going to ask for anything from something that offers no inclination of being there for me.
I respect your belief in a god but I do not share it and I will question the existence of a god just as you're sort of berating me for not believing.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 Creative visualisation is another name for it.

I'd say that sounds about right and fair.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

From your responses here, you're also not brave enough to even try, preferring to hide away from the world and your problems in a land of make believe the world is flat and a giant cell organism.

Nahhhh. I live on/in Earth just as you do and my life goes on just as your life does and everyone else.
What I think about what Earth is or whether a god exists or not is simply just that...my thoughts.

If I want to do experiments to try and figure out alternatives to what I've been schooled/coerced into believing then that's my enjoyment or struggle, whichever way issues arise.

Your belief in a god is your way to give meaning to your existence. You believe you live on a spinning globe in a space vacuum is your way of accepting what you deem as authority telling you that. You decide to read detective novels whether fiction or told as factual and being able to recite much of them is your way of being part of those novels.

Some people need ways to navigate through their life and we all go about it in different ways.

You may feel praying to your god is a comfort for you. To make you feel less lonely. To have an ally and a reason to follow to the end to be offered some kind of afterlife with your god.
You can pray to your god many times a day and be thought noi less intelligent or less stad=nding in your community.
I could pray to an invisible friend called Stan and believe Stan is answering my prayers. For that, I'd be classed as a nutter and for that, I'd have no standing in my community except to be known as a wacko.
I could argue for creative visualisation but what would that make me?

The whole point of my last post was to highlight how powerful a belief in a higher being can be. I also clarified how powerful creative visualisation can be and that it and prayer could arguably be different names for the same thing. Both create a tension between what you currently have and what you want to have. The biggest trick to making it work is to really feel that you have already received that which you have asked
for.

I know there are things you wish you had in your life, sceptimatic which you yearn for. I know, because you are human. Wise would argue you're just a bot, but I don't go along with that.

Your thoughts are energy. The force which animates that watery body of yours is energy too. If you have the guts and determination, you can bring into your life something that will be important to you. I could run off a series of examples from my own life, but that would just put you to sleep.

I love how you skip over addressing my previous post where I highlighted how satellites are used in my job in a myriad of different ways, regularly. The mere existence of satellites proves we live on a globe Earth. The ISS proves we live on a globe Earth daily. It would take you ten minutes one night, to locate the ISS travelling across the night sky to prove to yourself, the ISS is real. It would take you another ten minutes to locate one or two satellites to prove to yourself they too are real.

Oh, and that stuff I put in about my job - try finding a detective novel which mentions those things.

So basically Jack refuses point blank to stand by his own words! What can you do?

Jack said this:-

So I will NOT answer that question.

But he thinks it’s ok for him to ask others lots of questions!

He said:-

“By asking questions about things which appear to not make sense.
By asking questions about what evidence there is to support the claims.
By asking questions about what equipment is needed to investigate the claims.
By asking questions about where to obtain such equipment to make their own observations.”

That’s a lot of questions Jack!

But what do you do with all those answers? How do you decide what to believe when you yourself have no way of verifying what you are being told! Or will you just blindly accept it all. After all you have no way of verifying any thing you are told!

To demonstrate just how out the ballpark Jack is he said this:/

“Likewise, when someone presented an argument allegedly showing that Earth must be larger than claimed, how did you respond? Not by trying to demonstrate any fault with the argument, but instead showing how it contradicts the claims of your leaders.”

The earth is not larger than it is. It is as it is regardless of what you or anyone else suggests. A crazy belief does not suddenly generate extra land mass. Are you crackers? . If you wish to address totally crazy things that is your prerogative.the shape of the world is not open to question despite what you believe. The that you take such bollocks seriously just demonstrated the depth of your madness.


Oh by the way Jack what leaders are those? Or are you referring to those cool dudes in black with the sharp suits and shades?

Here you go Jack no extra bits. Problem solved.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/nasa-odysseus-moon-landing

Mankind is so familiar with the shape of the Earth, to suggest it is another shape is akin to someone questioning the shape of their own face as seen directly in a mirror. Everybody knows what their own face looks like, right?

Time is again correct. That's how batshit crazy it is, to question the universally accepted shape of the Earth as a globe of a specific size. By all means, do some experiments in the name of science for shits and giggles if you must.

The whole point of my last post was to highlight how powerful a belief in a higher being can be.

Anyone can claim anything is powerful if there's a belief in it.
I could pray to a wet blanket and ask for many things. The law of averages will dictate I get some of the things I asked for and many I won't. Just as you will for your god.

Some people Idolise a pop star and follow that music star everywhere even after the music star has passed on. Some will claim the music star guides them even after passing.
I could go on and on and on but you get my gist, I'm sure.

You simply take comfort in something you were coerced into and are now simply following because you believe some of what you asked for has been answered.

I also clarified how powerful creative visualisation can be and that it and prayer could arguably be different names for the same thing.

I think they are different names for the same thing.
Manifestation could also be another name. There can be so many names attached to make one ideal in your scenario.

Both create a tension between what you currently have and what you want to have. The biggest trick to making it work is to really feel that you have already received that which you have asked
for.

Yep, some people are deemed luckier than others when asking for things.
The luckier ones could cite divine intervention whilst others could cite lucky chance or bad luck or even a devil playing games.

I know there are things you wish you had in your life, sceptimatic which you yearn for. I know, because you are human. Wise would argue you're just a bot, but I don't go along with that.

We all wish for many things whether it's to bring a loved one back to stop a loved one from passing, or simply wish for a better life in whatever form that may take.
Chance happenings can sometimes change a person's life for the better and that person could simply put that down to being in the right place at the right time or something happening that changed the course of their life. Maybe it was an accident that gave them a payout or a chance to meet a partner after a messy divorce or whatever.
You may put it down to your god intervening to ensure your prayers were answered.
It's all about a person's logic and what they perceive realistic happening to be.

Your thoughts are energy. The force which animates that watery body of yours is energy too. If you have the guts and determination, you can bring into your life something that will be important to you. I could run off a series of examples from my own life, but that would just put you to sleep.

We can bring anything into our existence with nothing more than a dream from the thoughts of previous happenings in life and the wishes and wants down to the don't want.

Are those dreams real only when we sleep?
Or are they simply haphazard playback of what we recorded through our eyes and mind?
Or is it someone's god playing them?

I love how you skip over addressing my previous post where I highlighted how satellites are used in my job in a myriad of different ways, regularly.

You mention satellites but you have no clue where those satellites are, except to be told they're in space.
One minute satellites are supposed to be geologically locked and the next they whizz about the sky and can be seen by yourself with some telescope as if they have a shape to them and can be identified from this space.
It's a load of gunk.

The mere existence of satellites proves we live on a globe Earth.

There is no need for anything in the space they tell us exists. We can communicate just fine with earth-based transmitters based on high towers to high hills and high mountains.
Also, many things are high in the sky from aircraft of all kinds of descriptions.
No need for fictional space satellites.

The ISS proves we live on a globe Earth daily.

No. It proves nothing other than an object is in the sky and can be tracked when people are told to track it.

It would take you ten minutes one night, to locate the ISS travelling across the night sky to prove to yourself, the ISS is real.

Plenty have tried and plenty have come back with no joy.
I'm sure you'll argue your telescope is just magic and has given you pictures just how you were told they look, right?
If so then you go further down in my estimation of you, whether it bothers you or not.

It would take you another ten minutes to locate one or two satellites to prove to yourself they too are real.

I could likely locate a blimp or similar, or even an aircraft. The word air is key.

Oh, and that stuff I put in about my job - try finding a detective novel which mentions those things.

There are plenty of novels out there that tell all the stories of what you offer and also plenty of books with pictures.
I have nothing against you for reading them. Many people read books and become part of them on the internet so I'm not having a dig at you as such.
Maybe manifesting yourself through them as a little nudge and a wink and a slight dig but it's just a bit of fun.

So basically Jack refuses point blank to stand by his own words! What can you do?

No, I refuse to stand on your strawman.

I have told you what you need to do to get me to answer those questions.
Will you do it?
Will you admit you have been blatantly lying about me? Attributing false claims to me?

Or will you continue with this dishonest BS?

Again:
you claim:
"Jack Black live in fear of experts"
PROVE IT!

You imply that I think it is a crime to admit no knowledge with your claim:
"Its no crime to admit no knowledge on a subject unless you happen to be a libertarian flat earther or Jack Black"
PROVE IT!

You claim:
"Jack Black who would claim to know everything about it"
PROVE IT!

You claim:
"Most likely Jack Black will say he has set up camp on 67P and knows all!"
PROVE IT!

Can you prove your BS? Or can you only continue to throw pathetic tantrums?

To demonstrate just how out the ballpark Jack is he said this:/

You mean I demonstrated your cult like behaviour where you simply reject or ignore arguments that don't fit your cult and say the person must be wrong.

The earth is not larger than it is.

Not that what it is, what is is claimed to be.
And if you meant that, then you should be able to demonstrate what is wrong with the argument.

If you wish to address totally crazy things that is your prerogative.

You mean if I wish to act in a rational and scientific manner, rather than as a member of a cult.

the shape of the world is not open to question

Again, typical cult behaviour.

Mankind is so familiar with the shape of the Earth, to suggest it is another shape is akin to someone questioning the shape of their own face as seen directly in a mirror.

No, it is NOTHING like that.

That would be if everyone lived in space and could look down at it every day.
It would be more like people questioning what their face looked like if they didn't have any mirrors or photos.

Time is again correct.

You mean he is yet again wrong, and acting like a cultist.
But because I dared to defy him, you will support him.

Mankind is so familiar with the shape of the Earth, to suggest it is another shape is akin to someone questioning the shape of their own face as seen directly in a mirror.

If someone showed you a face in a picture and said it was your face and you had no way to view a reflection of your face or weren't allowed access to a camera to verify it then you have two choices. Either believe what you're told or try and find a way to verify for yourself.

Everybody knows what their own face looks like, right?

Only of allowed access to a mirror.

Time is again correct. That's how batshit crazy it is, to question the universally accepted shape of the Earth as a globe of a specific size. By all means, do some experiments in the name of science for shits and giggles if you must.

And you should do the same for the same giggles instead of simply accepting a storyline without any verification.

having eyes that work also helps.



sometimes