Why do airplanes have machinery to tell whether they are parallel to the ground?

If people want to believe they live on a globe then they also have to understand that, if you had a telescope set level over water, it would always offer a curve downward away from your level vision.
We do not observe anything like this and we always observe a theoretical horizon line and for good reason.

The reason is, that our eyes offer a difference between lighter and darker shades over the distance we can observe with the naked eye.

The reason for this is that we are looking over level waters that do not rise nor dip, when calm.

Globalists like to pretend a downward curvature can create a horizon but any rational thinker should understand that a curvature downward from the level eye would offer just that...a sight into the distance that would omit the ground/waters in favour of the sky.
Basically, it's impossible for us to be living on a globe.
Absolutely impossible.

If people want to believe they live on a globe then they also have to understand that, if you had a telescope set level over water, it would always offer a curve downward away from your level vision.

We have been over this countless times.
This requires a telescope with a TINY FOV.

The fact is that a flat surface would always continue to rise, never producing a horizon, while a curved surface will initially appear to rise, until curvature dominates and makes it appear to go down. This produces the horizon.
This matches what it observed.

That RE matches reality, the FE does not.

Globalists like to pretend a downward curvature can create a horizon but any rational thinker should understand that a curvature downward from the level eye would offer just that...a sight into the distance that would omit the ground/waters in favour of the sky.
Basically, it's impossible for us to be living on a globe.
Absolutely impossible.

Rational thinkers realise that if that delusional BS was true, you wouldn't be able to look down at anything below you.
You have absolutely no justification for why a RE should magically vanish from view.
It relies upon blatantly lying to everyone by pretending perspective magically ceases to function for a RE.

Again, this is a comparison between a RE and a FE with an observer height of 2 m.


For a FE, the height of the ground remains physically the same, but appears to continue to rise forever (i.e. the angular position gets higher).
For a RE, the height of the ground physically curves down, but at short distances perspective wins and makes the angular position get higher, before the curvature wins and makes it go down.
For an observer height of 2 m, the peak height for a RE is -0.05 degrees. That means you need a telescope with a FOV of 0.1 degree, which is perfectly levelled to avoid seeing the ground.

You have already had all this explained to you, with all your dishonest BS refuted.
Repeating the same lies just demonstrates how dishonest you are, that you are willing to blatantly lie to everyone to pretend Earth is flat, that Earth being flat is more important to you than the truth.
And that you are so desperate in your attempts to defend the FE, you need to bring up things you know are pure BS because you have nothing better.

If people want to believe they live on a globe then they also have to understand that, if you had a telescope set level over water, it would always offer a curve downward away from your level vision.
We do not observe anything like this and we always observe a theoretical horizon line and for good reason.

The reason is, that our eyes offer a difference between lighter and darker shades over the distance we can observe with the naked eye.

The reason for this is that we are looking over level waters that do not rise nor dip, when calm.

Globalists like to pretend a downward curvature can create a horizon but any rational thinker should understand that a curvature downward from the level eye would offer just that...a sight into the distance that would omit the ground/waters in favour of the sky.
Basically, it's impossible for us to be living on a globe.
Absolutely impossible.

It's impossible to a manic sceptic with a visualisation problem, that's for sure.

How insane to be labelled a "globalist", like you're referring to some moron who accepts earth is a globe, and flat earth is the widely accepted shape of the Earth.

For us humans on the skin of this planet, the curve in all directions at all times on this planet, is a very, very, gentle curve. It is imperceptible for us to see with our bare eyes because we are so tiny compared to Earth, and so close to the surface of Earth.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 11, 2023, 09:46:26 PM

If people want to believe they live on a globe then they also have to understand that, if you had a telescope set level over water, it would always offer a curve downward away from your level vision.

We have been over this countless times.
This requires a telescope with a TINY FOV.

It doesn't matter about a tiny FOV.
The fact is, if you were to look from a level standpoint out to sea on a supposed globe that you people believe in, you would not see any horizon at all.
And yes we have been over it countless times and I'll still offer it because it's factual when looked at by people who aren't brainwashed by the global indoctrination.

The fact is that a flat surface would always continue to rise, never producing a horizon, while a curved surface will initially appear to rise, until curvature dominates and makes it appear to go down.

No. A flat surface doesn't rise at all. It stays flat whatever the distance.
Only light to dark shades create the illusion of it rising to eye level over distance to create the theoretical horizon line.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 11, 2023, 09:46:26 PM

Globalists like to pretend a downward curvature can create a horizon but any rational thinker should understand that a curvature downward from the level eye would offer just that...a sight into the distance that would omit the ground/waters in favour of the sky.
Basically, it's impossible for us to be living on a globe.
Absolutely impossible.

Rational thinkers realise that if that delusional BS was true, you wouldn't be able to look down at anything below you.

It's not about looking down so don't try to twist it like you normally do.
This is about level line of sight and only that.

You have absolutely no justification for why a RE should magically vanish from view.

The justification is right there in your face and everyone else's face if they choose to rid themselves of the global indoctrination tutors.

It relies upon blatantly lying to everyone by pretending perspective magically ceases to function for a RE.

Global indoctrination relies upon spreading unreasonable tutoring to the naive, by whoever offers it to the masses without proof

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 11, 2023, 09:46:26 PM

If people want to believe they live on a globe then they also have to understand that, if you had a telescope set level over water, it would always offer a curve downward away from your level vision.
We do not observe anything like this and we always observe a theoretical horizon line and for good reason.

The reason is, that our eyes offer a difference between lighter and darker shades over the distance we can observe with the naked eye.

The reason for this is that we are looking over level waters that do not rise nor dip, when calm.

Globalists like to pretend a downward curvature can create a horizon but any rational thinker should understand that a curvature downward from the level eye would offer just that...a sight into the distance that would omit the ground/waters in favour of the sky.
Basically, it's impossible for us to be living on a globe.
Absolutely impossible.

It's impossible to a manic sceptic with a visualisation problem, that's for sure.

How insane to be labelled a "globalist", like you're referring to some moron who accepts earth is a globe, and flat earth is the widely accepted shape of the Earth.

For us humans on the skin of this planet, the curve in all directions at all times on this planet, is a very, very, gentle curve. It is imperceptible for us to see with our bare eyes because we are so tiny compared to Earth, and so close to the surface of Earth.

It doesn't matter how gentle you pretend it is, it still would offer a downward curve over distance and not a theoretical horizon line.

It doesn't matter how you try to dress it up by using what's been tutored into you, it won't change reality and the reality is simple. Earth is not a globe that we supposedly walk upon.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 12, 2023, 04:14:28 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 11, 2023, 09:46:26 PM

If people want to believe they live on a globe then they also have to understand that, if you had a telescope set level over water, it would always offer a curve downward away from your level vision.
We do not observe anything like this and we always observe a theoretical horizon line and for good reason.

The reason is, that our eyes offer a difference between lighter and darker shades over the distance we can observe with the naked eye.

The reason for this is that we are looking over level waters that do not rise nor dip, when calm.

Globalists like to pretend a downward curvature can create a horizon but any rational thinker should understand that a curvature downward from the level eye would offer just that...a sight into the distance that would omit the ground/waters in favour of the sky.
Basically, it's impossible for us to be living on a globe.
Absolutely impossible.

It's impossible to a manic sceptic with a visualisation problem, that's for sure.

How insane to be labelled a "globalist", like you're referring to some moron who accepts earth is a globe, and flat earth is the widely accepted shape of the Earth.

For us humans on the skin of this planet, the curve in all directions at all times on this planet, is a very, very, gentle curve. It is imperceptible for us to see with our bare eyes because we are so tiny compared to Earth, and so close to the surface of Earth.

It doesn't matter how gentle you pretend it is, it still would offer a downward curve over distance and not a theoretical horizon line.

It doesn't matter how you try to dress it up by using what's been tutored into you, it won't change reality and the reality is simple. Earth is not a globe that we supposedly walk upon.

What do you mean, it "would" offer a downward curve.........?" You speak as though you cannot test these things and think people like me cannot test these things.

If you want to see flat, place a piece of paper on a drawing board, tape it down, and draw on your flat piece of paper. Now that is a flat surface.

It's like groundhog day here. The same tired flat earth arguments over and over and over and over again.

At sea level, looking out at the horizon at sea, the horizon is a maximum distance of about 5km away. The moment you ascend, even by only ten metres, you discover you can see further than when you were lower. That is exactly as you'd expect from living on a giant globe, not a giant flat drawing board.

That's the downward curve you are observing over the surface of the sea water which Is level. Now, I don't need to tell you this, but water always finds it's level, doesn't it? Which means curved sea water must also be level.

What do you mean, it "would" offer a downward curve.........?" You speak as though you cannot test these things and think people like me cannot test these things.

You can test it out as long as you're not sidetracked by the global trance you are in. You need to clear your mind and start looking with a level scope with a crosshair or at least a centre line to focus on and you'll see that no matter what you try to do you'll never see any horizon over a curve.

You just need to find places where you know there is a curve go to the top of it and set your scope to level.

 

If you want to see flat, place a piece of paper on a drawing board, tape it down, and draw on your flat piece of paper. Now that is a flat surface.

Of course it is.

It's like groundhog day here. The same tired flat earth arguments over and over and over and over again.

The same tired arguments are global naivety arguments.

At sea level, looking out at the horizon at sea, the horizon is a maximum distance of about 5km away.

The horizon is any seeable distance from level sight whether you're at the seaside or up a mountain, assuming clear enough skies.
If you were on a globe then your mountain would offer you zero horizon and only sky from a level standpoint with your scope, because your Earth would be always downwardly curving away from your level sighting.

We don't observe any of this because the Earth is not a globe we supposedly walk upon or fly over.

The moment you ascend, even by only ten metres, you discover you can see further than when you were lower.

Of course and that's because you are seeing through more light above against more shade below due to less atmospheric molecules in the stacking system.

That is exactly as you'd expect from living on a giant globe, not a giant flat drawing board.

It's what you expect looking over the level.
the globe is a myth.

That's the downward curve you are observing over the surface of the sea water which Is level.

Massively contradicting and you can't see that.

Now, I don't need to tell you this, but water always finds it's level, doesn't it?

Of course. At least you're getting it.

Which means curved sea water must also be level.

Oops, I thought you were getting it but you went back into your trance.

   

Quote

At any point you are above or on a sphere is it’s top point and you must always descend to remain above it at the same distance or height above it. That is an absolute fact you cannot dispute

No, that is absolute BS I have shown to be faulty above.

There is no "top" to a sphere.

You are correct. There is no top to a sphere. Because all points of a sphere are its top.



The geometry of a sphere dictates that at all points, you are effectively either at the top or bottom of a hill of perspective.  So this means at North Pole, you are at the top of the world. At Everest, people who have described it as the top of the world are technically right, but not because of elevation. At "Antarctica", you are at the top of the world too, because everything in all directions is below you on all sides. You could also say you're at the bottom of the world, but this would make Earth concave not a sphere if it were true.

This is why I don't buy this goofy theory.

It doesn't matter how you try to dress it up by using what's been tutored into you, it won't change reality and the reality is simple. Earth is not a globe that we supposedly walk upon.

Yes. Now, all of you explain why it is that this "gentle curve" doesn't look like this to onlookers.


You somehow think that this seems legit.



Either, as I say above, all parts of a sphere earth are "top" in which case you must deal with the implications of my previous argument, or there is an underside of Earth and things on the underside are upside down.

Quote

   

Quote

At any point you are above or on a sphere is it’s top point and you must always descend to remain above it at the same distance or height above it. That is an absolute fact you cannot dispute

No, that is absolute BS I have shown to be faulty above.

There is no "top" to a sphere.

You are correct. There is no top to a sphere. Because all points of a sphere are its top.



The geometry of a sphere dictates that at all points, you are effectively either at the top or bottom of a hill of perspective.  So this means at North Pole, you are at the top of the world. At Everest, people who have described it as the top of the world are technically right, but not because of elevation. At "Antarctica", you are at the top of the world too, because everything in all directions is below you on all sides. You could also say you're at the bottom of the world, but this would make Earth concave not a sphere if it were true.

This is why I don't buy this goofy theory.

Quote

It doesn't matter how you try to dress it up by using what's been tutored into you, it won't change reality and the reality is simple. Earth is not a globe that we supposedly walk upon.

Yes. Now, all of you explain why it is that this "gentle curve" doesn't look like this to onlookers.


You somehow think that this seems legit.



Either, as I say above, all parts of a sphere earth are "top" in which case you must deal with the implications of my previous argument, or there is an underside of Earth and things on the underside are upside down.

I thought you were onto a profound insight to snap you out of your flat earth indoctrination, for a moment there! That God of yours created an Earth where technically, everything and everyone, is equally on top of the world at all times like you say - everything is equal. Now, that's the God you should believe.

Top, bottom, underside, side, is meaningless on a globe. Gravity also keeps everything glued to the surface of a globe equally.

When you say this gentle curve does not look like that crazy drawing to onlookers, who are the onlookers? Aliens from outer space? Astronauts standing on the moon looking back at their home planet?

To them, it actually does look like that drawing if they have a powerful enough telescope to observe people getting around on different parts of the globe.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 12, 2023, 04:43:04 AM

What do you mean, it "would" offer a downward curve.........?" You speak as though you cannot test these things and think people like me cannot test these things.

You can test it out as long as you're not sidetracked by the global trance you are in. You need to clear your mind and start looking with a level scope with a crosshair or at least a centre line to focus on and you'll see that no matter what you try to do you'll never see any horizon over a curve.

You just need to find places where you know there is a curve go to the top of it and set your scope to level.

 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

If you want to see flat, place a piece of paper on a drawing board, tape it down, and draw on your flat piece of paper. Now that is a flat surface.

Of course it is.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

It's like groundhog day here. The same tired flat earth arguments over and over and over and over again.

The same tired arguments are global naivety arguments.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

At sea level, looking out at the horizon at sea, the horizon is a maximum distance of about 5km away.

The horizon is any seeable distance from level sight whether you're at the seaside or up a mountain, assuming clear enough skies.
If you were on a globe then your mountain would offer you zero horizon and only sky from a level standpoint with your scope, because your Earth would be always downwardly curving away from your level sighting.

We don't observe any of this because the Earth is not a globe we supposedly walk upon or fly over.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

The moment you ascend, even by only ten metres, you discover you can see further than when you were lower.

Of course and that's because you are seeing through more light above against more shade below due to less atmospheric molecules in the stacking system.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

That is exactly as you'd expect from living on a giant globe, not a giant flat drawing board.

It's what you expect looking over the level.
the globe is a myth.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

That's the downward curve you are observing over the surface of the sea water which Is level.

Massively contradicting and you can't see that.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Now, I don't need to tell you this, but water always finds it's level, doesn't it?

Of course. At least you're getting it.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Which means curved sea water must also be level.

Oops, I thought you were getting it but you went back into your trance.

Sceptic, I realise physical experiments are beyond one as indoctrinated as yourself in the flat earth Dunning Kruger effect, but I'll humour you nonetheless.

Place two points on your flat piece of paper on that drawing board. One dot represents you. The second dot represents the 5km horizon you can see at sea level. The maximum distance of sea you can see.

Get out your ruler and measure the distance. Now, place a 1cm high object where the dot representing you is. Now measure the distance from that raised height above that dot to the horizon dot. The distance should be slightly greater than at paper level.

This means at a raised position, you are looking through more air to your horizon dot and looking through more distance. On a flat drawing board world, this means at a height, you should be seeing a shorter distance to the horizon, not further.

The air molecule concentration difference at sea level to even ten metres above sea level, is negligible.

The only way the horizon distance you can see, increases with your height, is if Earth is a globe. If the Earth were truly flat as you believe, the higher you ascend, the less and less of the horizon you should be seeing, as your distance to that horizon increases and you are seeing through more air molecules. The opposite occurs in reality.   

Thus, you were never lied to in school. Earth is a globe.

It doesn't matter about a tiny FOV.

Yes, it does.
We have been over this many times.

If you are standing some height above a sphere, then a horizon will produced some distance away with a certain angle of dip.
The angle of dip can be calculated directly from your height and the radius of the sphere.
a=acos(r/(R+h))

For a sphere with a radius of 6371 km, and an observer height of 2 m, this angle of dip is 0.045 degrees.

If you have some viewing device looking out perfectly level, then if the FOV is 2 times this angle of dip or greater, YOU WILL SEE THAT ROUND SURFACE!

That is in inescapable mathematical fact.
The only way to stop you seeing that surface is if something blocks the view.

You entirely ignoring this fact and instead lying to everyone to pretend you should magically not see a round Earth just shows how dishonest and desperate you are.

The fact is, if you were to look from a level standpoint out to sea on a supposed globe that you people believe in, you would not see any horizon at all.

Again, the math shows this is a blatant lie.

And yes we have been over it countless times and I'll still offer it because it's factual when looked at by people who aren't brainwashed by the global indoctrination.

If it is a fact, why are you entirely incapable of defending it?
Why do you need to just assert this lie and then flee from the refutation of it?
The one acting brainwashed is YOU!
The one who can only assert pure BS with no justification of that BS at all, and just throwing out pathetic insults (like calling people brainwashed) when they refute your BS.

Stop drinking the cool-aid and either defend your BS or stop spouting it.

Why should you magically not be able to see a RE from a level view?
Note: it being below you is NOT enough, as then you shouldn't be able to see the ground for a FE either, as it is below you.
If it being below you was enough, then that means in order to see the ground through a level view, the ground would need to rise.

No. A flat surface doesn't rise at all. It stays flat whatever the distance.

It APPEARS to rise.
This is known as perspective.
It is merely a consequence that to see the ground directly below you, you need to look straight down to have it centered.
To see ground that is 2 m below your eyes, at a distance of 2 m, you need to look downwards at 45 degrees. This is the same as 1 m at 1 m.
As it gets further away, you need to look more and more up to have it centered.

Only light to dark shades create the illusion of it rising to eye level over distance to create the theoretical horizon line.

The horizon line is a real physical line.
It is the point where your line of sight is tangent to Earth.

It's not about looking down so don't try to twist it like you normally do.

I never said it was.
I was saying that if your delusional BS was true, that FOV doesn't matter, and you can't see the RE (because it is below you), then you would NEVER be able to see anything below you.
That is because if your FOV is large enough, you will see things below you.

The justification is right there in your face and everyone else's face if they choose to rid themselves of the global indoctrination tutors.

No, it isn't. All you have are pathetic baseless assertions.
The math shows you are wrong.
Observations of hills show you are wrong.

Global indoctrination relies upon spreading unreasonable tutoring to the naive, by whoever offers it to the masses without proof

You mean FE indoctrination.
Which then just repeats the same pathetic lies, without justification, and entirely ignores the refutation of those lies.

It doesn't matter how gentle you pretend it is, it still would offer a downward curve over distance and not a theoretical horizon line.

The FE offers a theoretical horizon, at an infinite distance.
The RE offers a real horizon.
That downwards curve is what causes the horizon.

It doesn't matter how you try to dress it up by using what's been tutored into you, it won't change reality and the reality is simple. Earth is not a globe that we supposedly walk upon.

Then why does all the evidence show it is a globe? Including the mere existence of the real horizon.
Your lies about reality will not change reality.
And reality is quite simple. Earth is round.

You can test it out as long as you're not sidetracked by the global trance you are in. You need to clear your mind and start looking with a level scope with a crosshair or at least a centre line to focus on and you'll see that no matter what you try to do you'll never see any horizon over a curve.

You just need to find places where you know there is a curve go to the top of it and set your scope to level.

Are you trying to suggest that it wouldn't be perfectly level? Because we already see that with Earth with a theodolite.
There is an measurable angle of dip to the horizon.

The same tired arguments are global naivety arguments.

You mean the same arguments from REers based upon facts and math, which you cannot show any fault with and need to dismiss?

If you were on a globe then your mountain would offer you zero horizon and only sky from a level standpoint with your scope, because your Earth would be always downwardly curving away from your level sighting.

Again, if it was as simple as that, then the FE wouldn't offer any horizon, because Earth would always be below you.
Ignoring perspective for a RE, while relying upon it for a FE just shows how dishonest you are.

Of course and that's because you are seeing through more light above against more shade below due to less atmospheric molecules in the stacking system.

Again, if this delusional BS was true, you would not see a horizon. You would see a blur.
And the difference in air at that scale is negligible.
So that is NOT why.

Massively contradicting and you can't see that.

No, not contradicting at all.
The horizon is caused by the curve.
The fact you can see further when you get higher, and that the angle of dip increases as you get higher is further evidence of that.

Oops, I thought you were getting it but you went back into your trance.

You mean back to reality.
Water in oceans (ignoring waves) is level.
But water in oceans will block the view to something that is above the water to an observer also above water.
This shows that this water is curving. If it was flat, it could not block the view.
So level is not flat.

You are correct. There is no top to a sphere. Because all points of a sphere are its top.

So stop pretending there is.
Stop pretending the water must magically flow away from the top you admit doesn't exist to go to the bottom which also can't exist.

This is why I don't buy this goofy theory.

Because you fail to understand simple geometry and relative references?

Yes. Now, all of you explain why it is that this "gentle curve" doesn't look like this to onlookers.

Because that is absolutely nothing like what it should look like.
How about you try explaining why it should look like that.
Or you can try explaining why a FE doesn't look like a pile of shit.

You somehow think that this seems legit.

You can easily take any photo and rotate it however you please.
You aren't proving anything with it, and have already admitted that for those in Australia, Australia is the top.
You are just showing that you are knowingly lying to everyone.

 it won't change reality and the reality is simple.

And again..

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 22, 2023, 09:24:43 PM

You're trying to use a curve and offer it as a straight-line perception and pretending that somehow covers what you're trying to portray Earth as which you have absolutely no idea about except to reference drawn graphs as some kind of proof offering.

Shrugs…


Measures “flat” with a straight edge with a small frame of reference.



The tank actually is big enough to have a gentle curve.



What should the curve look like to a person 6 foot tall for an earth 30,000 times, or more, greater in diameter than the tank?






https://flatearth.ws/horizon-dip

And…

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 25, 2023, 05:40:37 AM

Their artificial horizon shows you this.

Walk us through this for the artificial horizon indicator as an airplane passes over an ever increasing horizon as it flys towards the increasing slope and horizon of a mountain range?


Anyway…

Quote

https://flatearth.ws/artificial-horizon

An artificial horizon, or attitude indicator, is a flight instrument that indicates the aircraft’s orientation relative to Earth’s horizon and gives an immediate indication of the smallest change of orientation. An artificial horizon utilizes a gyroscope to detect the change of orientation and pendulous vanes to continuously correct the orientation relative to the level.

Flat-Earthers claim that an artificial horizon should drift over time if the airplane is flying over the spherical Earth because the gyroscope will eventually drift and no longer points toward Earth’s center. In reality, an artificial horizon has a self-correcting mechanism, keeping the gyroscope upright if it is displaced for any reason, including by the aircraft’s motion following Earth’s curvature.

Quote

Preflight Actions:
When an aircraft engine is first started and pneumatic or electric power is supplied to the instruments, the gyro is not erect
A self-erecting mechanism inside the instrument actuated by the force of gravity applies a precessing force, causing the gyro to rise to its vertical position
The attitude indicator should not bank more than 5° in taxi turns

https://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/avionics-and-instruments/attitude-indicator

Quote

Attitude indicators have mechanisms that keep the instrument level with respect to the direction of gravity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_indicator

Flat Earth - Yes an aircraft Artificial Horizon self corrects in flight - Pt 1

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 25, 2023, 05:40:37 AM

Their artificial horizon shows you this.

The vacuum powered instruments that uses gravity?


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Pendulous Vanes | Pilot Tutorial



Ep. 60: Inner Workings of an Attitude Indicator | Gyroscope


Like this source better…

Quote

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/students/presolo/special/understanding-gyroscopic-instruments

Gyro instruments react to short-term movements of the airplane. In fact, the attitude indicator contains a set of weights intended to drive the instrument toward level flight by sensing gravity. These weights move the instrument face about 3 degrees per minute. So if you were to maintain a 30-degree coordinated banked turn for 10 minutes,


Commonly, the AI and HI are powered by vacuum pneumatic systems.

it won't change reality

Funny you’re the one running away from reality.  Trying to change the topic away from instruments that use vacuum and gravity.

In a thread literally titled, Why do airplanes have machinery to tell whether they are parallel to the ground?

If you want to discus perspective, I suggest this thread “ Horizon did not block duck from view”.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90722.0


Where it goes through by experiments that flat surfaces don’t physically block objects from view, when the viewer and object are both above the same flat surface.

So, stop derailing this thread. 

Oh.  I forgot.  The instrument in question uses vacuum and gravity.  Damn. 

If people want to believe they live on a globe then they also have to understand that, if you had a telescope set level over water, it would always offer a curve downward away from your level vision.

Do I need to pull out my tubes and tripods again? 

Quote

   

Quote

At any point you are above or on a sphere is it’s top point and you must always descend to remain above it at the same distance or height above it. That is an absolute fact you cannot dispute

No, that is absolute BS I have shown to be faulty above.

There is no "top" to a sphere.

You are correct. There is no top to a sphere. Because all points of a sphere are its top.



The geometry of a sphere dictates that at all points, you are effectively either at the top or bottom of a hill of perspective.  So this means at North Pole, you are at the top of the world. At Everest, people who have described it as the top of the world are technically right, but not because of elevation. At "Antarctica", you are at the top of the world too, because everything in all directions is below you on all sides. You could also say you're at the bottom of the world, but this would make Earth concave not a sphere if it were true.

This is why I don't buy this goofy theory.

Quote

It doesn't matter how you try to dress it up by using what's been tutored into you, it won't change reality and the reality is simple. Earth is not a globe that we supposedly walk upon.

Yes. Now, all of you explain why it is that this "gentle curve" doesn't look like this to onlookers.


You somehow think that this seems legit.



Either, as I say above, all parts of a sphere earth are "top" in which case you must deal with the implications of my previous argument, or there is an underside of Earth and things on the underside are upside down.

Would you like to know the World's worst kept secret which your flat earth priests will never ever tell you?

EVERYBODY IS A FLAT EARTHER.

Nobody goes through life saying what part of Earth's orbit around the sun we are at. Nobody worries what side of the sun is facing Earth.

Everybody watches the sun rise and watches the sun set. Nobody watches the horizon dip or watches the horizon rise. Everybody goes through life as if Earth is stationary and motionless. The stars are luminaries in the night sky which have no obvious affect on our lives. Nobody worries about Earth's rotation speed or Earth's orbit speed around the sun.

Nobody thinks of Earth's tilt. The seasons happen to our surroundings and us. Everybody is concerned with their immediate visual surrounds which are East, West, North, South, up, and down - the small picture which is essentially a flattish piece of Earth.

Everybody lives in the illusion of flat earth even though in the back of everybody's mind is the fact we are all on a moving spinning globe in space.

Flat Earth is the comfortable illusion everybody lives in, while globe earth is the uncomfortable truth everybody knows.

Flat Earth is the illusion.
Globe Earth is the fact.

Does that help you feel any better? Maybe it's time you and your flerfer pals found a new hobby which is productive?

EVERYBODY IS A FLAT EARTHER.

We have been over this before. They aren't.
Most people don't give a damn at all.
That doesn't make them a FEer.
If you want to say you are a flat Earther, and accept all the baggage that comes with it, go ahead. But don't go proclaiming everyone else is.

Quote from: turbonium2 on December 10, 2023, 09:36:08 PM

straight light

Again, if light travels in a straight line, YOU ARE WRONG.
If light travels in a straight line, a flat surface will NEVER produce a horizon except at the very edge.

You keep all your laser level BS to yourself until you go back to the thread where you have already been refuted on it countless times, or you admit your claims about the perspective and the horizon are blatant lies and what we observe matches what is expected for a round surface and not what we expect for a flat surface.


Until then, DEAL WITH PERSPECTIVE!

Again, for a flat surface, the surface continues to rise FOREVER! It will approach 0, but never reach 0, nor will it magically stop and magically go back down.
With a round surface, initially the "slope" is insignificant, so perspective makes it appear to rise, but eventually the "slope" becomes too steep and it goes back down.
Again, flat surface does not match what is observed, round surface does.

No, it is the very opposite of what a curved surface would look like.

The surface appears to rise up more and more with more distance away, which can only happen if the surface is entirely FLAT.

A curved surface would curve downward more and more with more distance away, that is an absolute fact.

Let’s assume the curve is sharper than your ball Earth curve. The effects of perspective have less and less effect, by more and more curvature.


If you really believe things could curve downward suddenly after going beyond 3 miles away, then how could objects far higher up on the surface than ‘curvature’ would be, go out of all view?

If you can’t see or measure or identify or anything at all of there being a curved surface over the Earth, trying to make up endless excuses over and over seems pointless, basically

No, it is the very opposite of what a curved surface would look like.

No, it is exactly what a curved surface would look like, as explained repeatedly.
You ignoring that explanation and repeating the same refuted BS will not change that fact.

Again, for a curved surface, initially the ground will rise due to perspective, but after enough distance, the curvature means the slope (relative to a local cartesian coordinate system centred on you) is going down enough that the ground appears to sink.

This has been proven to you repeatedly.
And you have been entirely incapable of refuting it.

Repeating the same pathetic lies just shows how dishonest you are and how desperate you are.

Again, here is a simple image that shows you are lying:

The eye at the top of the red line can look straight down to see the ground below them.
They can look up slightly to the first purple line to see the ground a bit in front.
They can look up higher to see ground further away.
And this continues, with the ground appearing to rise until you reach the horizon where it instead goes back down.

Again, here is the simple graph that shows you are lying:


And here is an interactive desmos plot you can play around with to see you are lying:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/t71r8fecpt

Again, if your dishonest, delusional BS was true, if you looked towards any ball, you would just see a point.
This is shown most directly when you are standing directly above a ball looking down with the ball centred in your FOV.
If your dishonest, delusional BS was true, then no part of the ball could have an angle of elevation higher than that point.
That means the entire ball must have an angle of elevation of -90 degrees or below. That means it would appear as a single point.
The fact you can test this with any ball and see that you are spouting pure BS, shows just how dishonest and desperate you are.

The surface appears to rise up more and more with more distance away, which can only happen if the surface is entirely FLAT.

Why?
What magic disables perspective for non-flat objects?
If you are standing on a hill does that magically stop perspective and make it so Earth never appears to rise?

A curved surface would curve downward more and more with more distance away, that is an absolute fact.

Which is the very thing which explains the change from the ground appearing to rise, where that downwards curve is not significant enough yet, to where it forms the horizon and appears to go down.
So this fact is what explains what is observed.

It is is absolute fact that a flat surface does not have that, so there is nothing to negate perspective, so it will continue to rise forever, never producing a horizon (until you get to the edge).

Let’s assume the curve is sharper than your ball Earth curve. The effects of perspective have less and less effect, by more and more curvature.

You can already do this with the desmos graph I linked.
Although if you make it too small the small x approximation no longer holds.
If you want, I can even modify it to work for smaller radii so the small x approximation isn't needed.
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/2qszkrpaix
The non-approximation is added in orange.

But what we see is exactly what is expected for a round object.
This results in the horizon appearing lower and closer.
Keeping the observer height constant, making the ball smaller makes the horizon lower and closer, until it becomes incredibly close.

If you really believe things could curve downward suddenly after going beyond 3 miles away, then how could objects far higher up on the surface than ‘curvature’ would be, go out of all view?

It doesn't suddenly curve down.
It is merely the point where curvature beats perspective, or the point where a line from your eyes is tangent to Earth.
And that is focusing on the surface. For objects above the surface it takes more than 5 km to make them vanish.
That is why when objects go over the horizon, we see them appear to sink, with the bottom being obscured first, and more and more being hidden.

If you can’t see or measure or identify or anything at all of there being a curved surface over the Earth, trying to make up endless excuses over and over seems pointless, basically

Good thing we can measure it, and identify it.

The one making excuses here is YOU!
We have the horizon and the behaviour of objects near it which quite clearly demonstrates Earth is round.
But because you hate reality, you need to make up excuses for how it could magically work for a flat fantasy, and lie about the RE to pretend it can't happen on a round object.

So why don't you stop with the pointless excuse exercise and accept reality?

It would be a curve that is so very, very slight, as seen from the surface, and anywhere above the surface where we have been, that no curve can be seen or found anywhere at all.

We couldn’t see the horizon directly across our view, in planes, if Earth were a ball, the horizon would be very different and odd to look upon, but nobody has ever seen it before, so it’s hard to imagine how it would look, obviously.

You cannot say a curve couldn’t be seen or measured over a 3 or 4 miles distance, while also claiming the curve makes all objects vanish from sight!!

That’s nonsense.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 14, 2023, 04:50:24 AM

EVERYBODY IS A FLAT EARTHER.

We have been over this before. They aren't.
Most people don't give a damn at all.
That doesn't make them a FEer.
If you want to say you are a flat Earther, and accept all the baggage that comes with it, go ahead. But don't go proclaiming everyone else is.

In your own world, you are, and we'll go over it yet again.

Otherwise, you would know where Earth is in relation to our moon, our sun, and all other planets in our solar system, at all times. You don't know and you aren't even concerned. If you say you do, you are lying.

If you were concerned and did know all those planetary dynamics at every second of everyday, you wouldn't be able to function in your everyday life. In everyday life, we do not need to be aware of the ENTIRE globe.

So, from a certain perspective, you are a flat earther. We all are.

You are on this forum, thinking about the shape if the Earth by virtue of the fact you pretty much live on this forum and are glued to it. But, the moment you walk away to wash your dishes or walk down to your letter box, you don't give a shit about the globe, you are only concerned with your immediate surroundings on a motionless, flattish plane.

The only difference between you and these flat earthers, is these flat earthers deny the globe. You switch between the two like we all do.

You didn't think of it this way before, did you Blacky?

It would be a curve that is so very, very slight, as seen from the surface, and anywhere above the surface where we have been, that no curve can be seen or found anywhere at all.

It is very very slight.
The rate of curvature is roughly 0.00000016 /m.
That is slight.
We have been over this.

And again, we can find the curve, quite easily.
Such as from the horizon.
You just need to be honest enough to look for it rather than trying to hide it at all costs.

We couldn’t see the horizon directly across our view, in planes, if Earth were a ball, the horizon would be very different and odd to look upon, but nobody has ever seen it before, so it’s hard to imagine how it would look, obviously.

Why?
Again, you assert pure BS with no justification.
Even in a plane we would still see the horizon.

You cannot say a curve couldn’t be seen or measured over a 3 or 4 miles distance, while also claiming the curve makes all objects vanish from sight!!

It can.
We can easily see it in the form of the horizon.
We can easily measure it with a theolodite.
Again, you are blatantly lying to pretend Earth isn't round.

If Earth was flat there would be no horizon except the edge.

In your own world, you are, and we'll go over it yet again.

No, I'm not.
Lying about me wont magically make me a flat Earther.

For my daily life, Earth is anything but flat. There is a quite substantial hill.

And again, most people don't give a damn about the shape of Earth, so they are not a flat Earther.

Otherwise, you would know where Earth is in relation to our moon, our sun, and all other planets in our solar system, at all times.

Why?
You are being just as bad as a FEer, spouting pure BS with no justification.
Why do I need to know where Earth is in relation to our moon, sun, etc, to not be a flat Earther?

That makes as much sense as saying everyone is a Round Earther, otherwise, they would know where the sun is above the disc, and because they aren't thinking about exactly where the sun is above the disk they are magically a round Earther and if they say otherwise they are lying.

So, from a certain perspective, you are a flat earther. We all are.

From an incredibly dishonest perspective where you could claim anyone is anything.

you don't give a shit about the globe

Or the shape at all.
So still not a flat Earther.

You didn't think of it this way before, did you Blacky?

Yes, I did, and I explained why your claims are BS before.

I am not a flat Earther.

It would be a curve that is so very, very slight, as seen from the surface, and anywhere above the surface where we have been, that no curve can be seen or found anywhere at all.

We couldn’t see the horizon directly across our view, in planes, if Earth were a ball, the horizon would be very different and odd to look upon, but nobody has ever seen it before, so it’s hard to imagine how it would look, obviously.

You cannot say a curve couldn’t be seen or measured over a 3 or 4 miles distance, while also claiming the curve makes all objects vanish from sight!!

That’s nonsense.

Turbonium, don't be afraid of maths.

The globe earth model is well researched. You know you can see a maximum of 5km out to sea, and the circumference of the Earth is known.

So, use your maths skills and calculate that if earth is a globe the size the authorities say it is, then how far below your level eye view, that horizon actually is.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 15, 2023, 06:55:20 PM

In your own world, you are, and we'll go over it yet again.

No, I'm not.
Lying about me wont magically make me a flat Earther.

For my daily life, Earth is anything but flat. There is a quite substantial hill.

And again, most people don't give a damn about the shape of Earth, so they are not a flat Earther.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 15, 2023, 06:55:20 PM

Otherwise, you would know where Earth is in relation to our moon, our sun, and all other planets in our solar system, at all times.

Why?
You are being just as bad as a FEer, spouting pure BS with no justification.
Why do I need to know where Earth is in relation to our moon, sun, etc, to not be a flat Earther?

That makes as much sense as saying everyone is a Round Earther, otherwise, they would know where the sun is above the disc, and because they aren't thinking about exactly where the sun is above the disk they are magically a round Earther and if they say otherwise they are lying.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 15, 2023, 06:55:20 PM

So, from a certain perspective, you are a flat earther. We all are.

From an incredibly dishonest perspective where you could claim anyone is anything.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 15, 2023, 06:55:20 PM

you don't give a shit about the globe

Or the shape at all.
So still not a flat Earther.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 15, 2023, 06:55:20 PM

You didn't think of it this way before, did you Blacky?

Yes, I did, and I explained why your claims are BS before.

I am not a flat Earther.

No, ofcourse you're not, Blacky. You don't have anything in common with all those flat earthers you dissect, do you? Lol!  You're not a flat earther at all, are you?

We know the truth, don't we Turbonium? 

Oh, and everyone is a round earther too, even if they don't know it or wilfully deny it.

Do what you usually do. Address this post, sentence by agonising sentence. Be sure to leave no stone unturned.

I’ve actually seen the horizon from planes high above Earth, directly across my window, they are NOT lower at all, because if they WERE lower, I couldn’t have seen them across from me, out my plane window.

This seeing a horizon so far away from me, directly across from me, at such a great height above Earth, is magnificent and so beautiful, to any who have seen it.

The best way to know Earth is not a ball, it is flat.  Among the many things that also prove it is flat.

The surface does not actually rise upward at all, but appears to rise upward, objects on the surface also appear to be rising upward, more and more upward in lesser distances outward than before.

This happens when surfaces are entirely flat, most of all, like over large bodies of water, when calm and still, especially.

Horizons are always straight and horizontal across the Earths surface, even when thousands of miles across Earths surface, directly across from us in our view.

These features can only happen above a large flat surface.

When one tries to show the horizon from the ground, which is perfectly straight across, and rise above the surface, higher and higher, to finally show a ball Earth in view, it doesn’t ever work at all.

The horizon has to show a curve where we see it is completely straight across Earth, in planes.

When they start curving it higher than we see it in planes, it looks even more ridiculous.

We can’t fake the truth we have seen ourselves

I’ve actually seen the horizon from planes high above Earth, directly across my window, they are NOT lower at all, because if they WERE lower, I couldn’t have seen them across from me, out my plane window.

Again, the formula for horizon angle of dip is quite simple, assuming an observer height of h, and radius of Earth R, then the horizon will be at an angle of dip of:
a = acos(r/(R+h))
For an observer height of 2 m, the horizon is at an angle of dip of 0.045 degrees.
For an observer height of 10 km (32 800 ft), the horizon is at an angle of dip of 3.2 degrees.

That is still easily visible from a plane window.

Lower does not mean so low you can't see it.

As for "directly across my window", if you mean at eye level, BS:

The horizon is observed to be below eye level, by an amount that decreases with increasing elevation.

You relying upon nothing more than your eyes to determine what is level is useless.

The best way to know Earth is not a ball, it is flat.  Among the many things that also prove it is flat.

Again, the fact that there is a horizon at all shows it is round, not flat.
It is one of the many things that proves beyond any sane doubt that Earth is round.
You cannot offer a single thing which shows Earth is more likely to be flat than round.

The surface does not actually rise upward at all, but appears to rise upward, objects on the surface also appear to be rising upward, more and more upward in lesser distances outward than before.
This happens when surfaces are entirely flat, most of all, like over large bodies of water, when calm and still, especially.

And importantly, over a flat surface THAT NEVER STOPS!
It continues to rise forever.
It will NEVER magically stop and reverse.
For that, you need the angle of the surface to change. That change in angle of surface, such as from a round Earth is what causes the horizon.

As has been explained to you repeatedly, a small enough portion of a large enough round surface will be indistinguishable from a flat surface.
And that is very true.
For example, over the first 100 m, the curvature of Earth will cause a perfectly level surface to drop by 0.8 mm.
As a comparison, a human hair can be roughly 0.2 mm, and the sole of a shoe can be several mm.
Yet, at 100 m, you can normally easily see a level surface within your FOV when looking straight out.

So if the curvature of Earth was enough to magically prevent it from appearing to rise, then putting on shoes should remove the ground from view.
At 1 km, it only reaches 8 cm.
At 5 km, the distance to the horizon for an observer height of 2 m, it only drops by roughly 2 m.

Yet a height of 10s of m is not enough to remove Earth from view.

Horizons are always straight

No, they aren't.
The fact you can follow them all around you shows it is NOT straight. It shows it is a circle.

These features can only happen above a large flat surface.

Repeating the same pathetic lies wont make them a fact.
The only "horizon" for a flat surface is the edge.
But for a round object there is a horizon.
If the round object is a perfect sphere, then the horizon will be a perfect circle.

This matches with reality.
So once more, RE matches reality, FE does not.

When one tries to show the horizon from the ground, which is perfectly straight across, and rise above the surface, higher and higher, to finally show a ball Earth in view, it doesn’t ever work at all.

Prove it.

The horizon has to show a curve where we see it is completely straight across Earth, in planes.

i.e. when you see a curve.

If you would like an example, go get a ring, like a hula hoop. Hold it up at eye level, and see what it looks like.
Can you see the curve?
Because that is the curve you are looking for.

To make it to scale, assuming your hoop has a radius of 50 cm, you would need to hold it at a height of 0.4 mm, i.e. around the width of 2 human hairs, below your eye level to represent what is expected for an observer with an eye height of 2 m.
For an observer in a plane at 10 km, you would need to hold it 2.8 cm below eye level.

We can’t fake the truth we have seen ourselves

Like the truth that flat surfaces don't magically produce a horizon?
The truth that all the evidence that says one way or another points to Earth being round?
The truth that you are a compulsive liar, happy to spout whatever nonsense you can to pretend Earth is flat?
The truth that after you are repeatedly refuted, you still just ignore it all and pretend you aren't wrong?

Horizons are always straight and horizontal across the Earths surface, even when thousands of miles across Earths surface, directly across from us in our view.

These features can only happen above a large flat surface.

When one tries to show the horizon from the ground, which is perfectly straight across, and rise above the surface, higher and higher, to finally show a ball Earth in view, it doesn’t ever work at all.

The horizon has to show a curve where we see it is completely straight across Earth, in planes.

When they start curving it higher than we see it in planes, it looks even more ridiculous.

We can’t fake the truth we have seen ourselves

How flat is the face or the "horizon" of her cut?





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I thought you were onto a profound insight to snap you out of your flat earth indoctrination, for a moment there!

You're the one indoctrinated.

At age 6 or so, you were told by teachers that the Earth is round. You were not in a position to debate with them, as they could fail you if you told them this was a load of crap.
For the next 12+ years, this continued until you were an adult, and out of whatever level of education you got.
If this weren't enough, every "science" magazine you read showed you picture after picture of RE.
The only way you would even think otherwise is if they goofed up somehow, and the seed of doubt was able to grow.

There isn't some conspiracy group of flat Earthers that pushes groupthink or indoctrination. On the other hand, if you have not been pressured to believe in RE, you had an abnormal childhood.

I have been shown repeatedly to be a liar. So I am just lying about what I have seen.

Yes, I know you are.

Flat Earth is the illusion.
Globe Earth is the fact.

You're very good at reality warping, but the fact is there are no facts. The state of being human is living inside an illusion. Now you can continue thinking that most people are flat Earthers, but I actually know of nobody who thinks that. You're not some daring freethinker as you seem to imagine. You're among the brainwashed majority.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." – Mark Twain

You're the one indoctrinated.

Accepting reality is not indoctrinated.
It is not indoctrination to accept you need oxygen to live.

At age 6 or so, you were told by teachers that the Earth is round.

As well as plenty of other truths you happily accept.
But because this one doesn't match your fantasy, you reject it and label it as indoctrination.

as they could fail you if you told them this was a load of crap.

Yes, they are in a position to fail you if you reject reality. That would be you failing to understand the content of the course.

There isn't some conspiracy group of flat Earthers that pushes groupthink or indoctrination.

There are plenty of youtubers doing exactly that.

Yes, I know you are.

And great job showing just how much of a compulsive liar you are.
You need to blatantly lie about what people have said, entirely fabricating quotes.
Truly pathetic.

You're very good at reality warping, but the fact is there are no facts.

There are plenty of facts.
You not liking them doesn't mean they aren't facts.

You're among the brainwashed majority.

Being in the majority doesn't mean you are brainwashed.
We are among the majority that has mountains of evidence to show you are spouting pure BS.
Just like you have been shown to be spouting pure BS in this thread.

You cannot defend the FE with any rational arguments, so you rely upon blatant lies.