Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

dodgy mcdogdgododge

feel free to adjust the analogy so that we can understand how DataF-the-air-above (with the lower crushing ability vs Kabool-the-air-below) is able to discern the ojbects JackB and Smoke and crush accordingly to their displaced dense mass (dp-ism)

either it's DataF or it's the inherent propoerties of Jack and Smoke outside of the influences from DataF

How high do you have to go before you can't survive without aid?

Well.  We know from mile high stadium and Denver Colorado that it’s hard for some people to breath do to altitude at 5,280 feet.  But it’s not from an increase in helium.  We know many need oxygen to complete the hike to the top of Mount Everest. But it’s from thin atmosphere.  Not an increase in helium.  We know from WWII and the gunner positions open to the outside atmosphere in the B-17s they needed well insulated clothing and oxygen when the B-17 cruised between 25,000 and 30,000 feet.



But it’s not from an increase in helium. It’s from a decrease in oxygen levels. 

How high do you have to go before your body starts to struggle?

Some people due to health reasons would die from a lack of oxygen without their supplemental oxygen at sea level.  Healthy people can train and may not need supplement oxygen when climbing Mount Everest. 

People train in Denver to increase their lung capacity.  Better process oxygen with their bodies.  There is no evidence oxygen being displaced by an increase in helium. If it was something else than lower oxygen level with an increase in gasses that cause suffocation and displacing the oxygen, one can’t really train for that. 

Note.  Added.  And we know air isn’t getting less dense with altitude because mass is magically disappearing.  Example of you change water to gaseous oxygen and hydrogen the H20 still turns to the mass of two hydrogen atoms and the mass of one oxygen atom.  Or if you make water into steam.  If you had a vessel that could take the pressure.  10 pounds of water in a trapped vessel is going still be 10 pounds of water as steam.

But there is clear historical and practical knowledge of this.

How high do you have to go before your body starts to expand?

I don’t think it’s a matter of “expanding”.  It’s a matter of water and other liquids basically boiling.

On a sub the evaporator is ran at a slight vacuum to boil water off at a lower temperature than 212 degrees Fahrenheit.  Keeps the heat exchanger from fouling by reducing the needed heat and temperature. The cooler you run the heat exchanger less things get cooked to the heat transfer surfaces.  But must be kept at a temperature greater than 180 degrees Fahrenheit to kill the critters in the sea water. The vacuum is maintained by a steam ejector off the tank the water is boiled.

The water isn’t turning into helium or anything stupid.  It’s just water going through a phase change of turning into H2O gas/steam. 

The point where water boils at body temperature is referred to as the Armstrong Limit.

Definition Of The Armstrong Limit

The Armstrong Limit, also referred to as Armstrong’s line, is the height that has atmospheric pressure so low (6.3 kPa) that the boiling point for water equals the normal human body temperature which is normally 37 degrees Celsius. The Armstrong limit begins at an altitude of approximately 60,000 to 62,000 feet.


https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-is-the-armstrong-limit-the-altitude-beyond-which-no-one-can-survive.html

It’s not a body turning to helium, it’s water turning into steam.

Ask yourself all this and then ask yourself why your body does expand.

It’s not really a mater of expanding.  It’s a matter of the blood being destroyed, and making gas bubbles. 

. But again.  You changed the subject from a very simple question that you are trying to dodge.  What is the pressure and density where oxygen can’t exist, but only helium.  The real world answer is oxygen stays oxygen no matter the pressure or density.

You seem infatuated with this small drop. I understand why. You can see how easy it is to be used to con people.

 

You supposedly basing things of experience should have a real answer.  An answer based on documented experience.


Take a steel ball twenty times more dense than a ping pong ball, and at four or five feet they are falling and accelerating at the same rate.



twenty times the difference in density and they are falling at the same rate.

You claim you know from experience?

It’s a simple question you can’t answer. 

I have a steel ball.  1 inch in diameter.  If you experienced things don’t fall at the same rate once things are massive enough to make the buoyant force of the atmosphere negligible.  Then how much more massive or dense of an object do I need to see / there is a measurable difference in acceleration at one foot.  Should be an easy answer and easy demonstration.

. You can’t offer an honest answer based on fact nor experience because den pressure delusion is a con.  It’s worthless for modeling the actual world.

And still you refuse to answer trivial question which demonstrate your model is wrong.

Again, what magic is causing each layer of air to push down on the layer below with a greater force than the layer above?
What is the air pushing against to do this?
Until you can answer that your model is dead.

How about you explain the scientific explanation and tell me how you're sure of it?

You have already been told. You just ignore it.
Why ask for explanations when you just ignore it?

You see gravity is hidden behind this and for good reason.

Not really. The reason you hide is pathetic.
You know your delusional BS doesn't work without gravity, so you need to use it. But you don't want to admit it is real because it destroys your fantasy, so you need to hide it.

Gravity offers magical force and it keeps alive the global spinning Earth and space and all the rest of the old gunk

You have already had it explained why that is pure BS.
There is nothing magical about gravity. It is an attractive force between masses (more complex, but lets leave it at the simple thing for now).
And you cannot show any fault with it.

It is your crap which is magical.
Where your magical sentient air magically knows if something is more or less dense than the air to magically know to push it up or down; to know if it should defy the pressure gradient so the low pressure air magically pushes down to overcome the high pressure air below. It also needs to magically have each layer of air magically push down on the layer below, without moving and without anything to push against.

And as already explained, if your delusional BS worked, then it would work just as well for a RE.
In fact it would be better.
It would simply expand your gobstopper analogy. The earth is the centre of a large gobstopper, with dense layers in the core, and less dense layers around the outside as the atmosphere.
And it can just be a "molecule" in the outside layers of a solar system gobstopper, which in turn can be in a gobstopper in the galaxy.
So no, if your delusional BS worked, there would be no need for gravity for a RE to work.

And we don't think Earth is round because of gravity. There is already mountains of evidence showing Earth is round with gravity not needed at all.

So to sum up, gravity is not magical, your nonsense is.
Gravity works to explain reality but your nonsense does not.
Your nonsense works better for a round planet than a flat one.

You need these denser masses to keep up the illusion because you know the atmosphere will be much more easily overcome below to offer a minor difference over a fairly high drop.

Again, we don't.
We can address the entire process.
From the very start of the drop to terminal velocity.
You need to entirely ignore the start, because your nonsense can't explain it.
With your delusional BS, with the terminal velocity so different, the initial acceleration should also be different.
But in reality, with separate forces of gravity and the air, the initial acceleration where the air is insignificant should be basically the same, but then as it picks up velocity, it becomes different.

Denpressure is cooking and the strugglers are struggling to turn off the cooker. You especially.

You are the one struggling. So by "cooking" I take it you mean is burning to a crisp because of how crap it is.
Look at how much you need to flee from trivial questions.

How high do you have to go before you can't survive without aid?
How high do you have to go before your body starts to struggle?
How high do you have to go before your body starts to expand?

The first depends upon what prior training you have, and the make-up of the air you are breathing.
If you are breathing pure oxygen you can get to quite a low pressure
If you are breathing air, which is only 21% oxygen, you need a higher pressure.
That is because your lungs rely upon the partial pressure of oxygen.
A simple example of this is what happens when a jet airliner loses cabin pressure. The air pressure is then too low for you to survive with air, but if you are given pure oxygen it is fine.
But with concorde, it flew high enough so even pure oxygen is not enough.
Unless you try to seal your body, it wont expand, as it equalises to the ambient pressure.

You seem infatuated with this small drop. I understand why. You can see how easy it is to be used to con people.

You understand why, because it so clearly demonstrates your model is pure BS.
So you try to avoid it, to try to con people.

That's right, the one trying to do the conning here is you.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on October 10, 2023, 07:36:31 AM

Lol! I knew you had a good sense of humour bubbling away in one of your bottles of mountain dew!  It takes tolerance and a strong internal fortitude to debate a milksop such as yourself and your mad creation that you are trying to bring to life.

In bold.
It seems you're projecting again.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

With that glass experiment above where you declare you have triumphantly disproven gravity, did you pull your finger out of your mountain dew bottle hole (so to speak) and actually attempt that one?

Anyone can attempt all those experiments.
I see you haven't because if you did you would have to rethink your stance on it. Assuming you're honest that is.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

But please tell me you used water and not mountain dew? Those trousers of yours already have enough sticky stains for your mother to wash out, without adding mountain dew stains.

I think you're seriously projecting once again.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You haven't presented me with a mountain dew bottle dilemma, either.

I have and you know it.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I mean, knowing your calibre, you'd wager a bet that a bottle containing a thimble of mountain dew compared to a full bottle, dropped from the top of the Empire State building on a windy day, would be slowed down due to denpressure not by air resistance.

Denpressure is atmospheric resistance by dense mass displacement of it. It's all resistance which is the key.
You see gravity is hidden behind this and for good reason.
Gravity offers magical force and it keeps alive the global spinning Earth and space and all the rest of the old gunk for those who buy into it without knowing why and simply accepting gravity as a" just is" scenario as long as it's told by yesteryear people who were either given authority or were afforded the status of having the authority on whatever subject.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

It would probably also get blown right over to Times Square. I doubt the same problem would exist between a 5kg dumbell and a 10kg dumbell dropped from the same height though, do you?

You need these denser masses to keep up the illusion because you know the atmosphere will be much more easily overcome below to offer a minor difference over a fairly high drop.

Your Mountain Dew bottles fail and so does every different dense mass dropped at the same time.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Denpressure is cooked like the brain of a meth addict on a wild five day bender.

Denpressure is cooking and the strugglers are struggling to turn off the cooker. You especially.

C'mon man, lighten up a little! Is, "You're projecting again" your number one go-to? Milksop was inspirational, you have to admit!

You're only fooling yourself with this denpressure bunkum. You think you can create reasonable doubt in what is already well proven about gravity, and you can't. The stories are entrenched in everyday fact. The world doesn't operate the way you pretend it dors.

Your well-worn go-to for anything anybody says to refute your bunkum, is it is a story told in a book. All stories told in books are fiction to you, aren't they, Sceptimatic?

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing. You're not even trying. You're not even putting any effort in.

When are you ever going to learn the definition of "evidence"? When are you ever going to learn the definition of "proof"?

If reality is too boring for you Sceptimatic, that's fine, keep it to yourself. But if you can't keep it to yourself like in this thread, don't be disenchanted when you ask to be challenged and you don't like the outcome.

C'mon man, lighten up a little! Is, "You're projecting again" your number one go-to? Milksop was inspirational, you have to admit!

It seems to have struck a nerve with you.
I use the word, projecting because that's what comes across with you.

You're only fooling yourself with this denpressure bunkum.

You won't ever know that. You can't even understand the basics of it.

You think you can create reasonable doubt in what is already well proven about gravity, and you can't.

You can say well proven with your gravity acceptance as much as you like but if you're honest with yourself you would admit you have absolutely no clue what gravity is and cannot offer anything to show gravity, except to drop something and claim it's gravity.
It's quite amusing to be fair.

The stories are entrenched in everyday fact. The world doesn't operate the way you pretend it dors.

It certainly doesn't operate in the way you think it does, that's for absolutely sure.

Your well-worn go-to for anything anybody says to refute your bunkum, is it is a story told in a book. All stories told in books are fiction to you, aren't they, Sceptimatic?

All stories can be taken however a person wants to take them.
If there is no direct proof to a story then why should anyone take them as factual?

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing. You're not even trying. You're not even putting any effort in.

I don't need to put much effort in when going up against people like yourself. You offer nothing for argument except this stuff which is fairly funny at times but means nothing.

When are you ever going to learn the definition of "evidence"? When are you ever going to learn the definition of "proof"?

When are you going to learn what proof is and what real evidence is?
You see, I offer my denpressure thoughts as just that. I don't offer them as factual no matter how much you and your internet mates scream that I do.
However, you offer everything as factual without having a clue as to whether it is or not. You do this based on massive adherence to the masses. A peer pressured weakling, basically.

If reality is too boring for you Sceptimatic, that's fine, keep it to yourself. But if you can't keep it to yourself like in this thread, don't be disenchanted when you ask to be challenged and you don't like the outcome.

None of you usual suspects challenge anything. It's clear in how you come across.

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 11, 2023, 06:56:30 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 07, 2023, 06:51:57 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 04, 2023, 10:00:07 AM

in this discussion jack is an inanimate object.
he could be a bowling ball.
he could be a balloon filled with helium.
he just a thing that's not air.
he's a dense mass.
is the denseness lesser or more?
jack only knows he is an object.
smoke is also an object.
they don't know anything other than they can feel someone crushed on their sides/ tops/ bottoms.

Everyone knows they are under a crush. The crush and severity of it depend on their dense mass that is being crushed against and by what they displace to be crushed against.

Quote from: Themightykabool

kabool doesn't know what jack or smoke are because kabool is nonsentient air-from-below.
kabool only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

data doesn't know because dataF is nonsentient air-from-above
Data only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

As above, everyone knows because it's all pressure no matter which way it's looked at or felt.

Quote from: Themightykabool

so by your 2nd comment

Smoke and Jack crush back against DataF.
but they don't crush against Kabool?
why do they only crush against Data?

Everyone crushes.
All atmosphere is crushed by any dense mass placed within it, which is always and is only dependent on where in the atmosphere as to the severity of the crush and the crush back.
But it's all crush on crush.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Let's say Data is blind folded.
Data's two arms are equally strong to crush equally.
Jack and Smoke are below him and are equal in their dense mass.
Data's pushing on their heads, but he's blind folded and has no idea who's who.

As above.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Let's say Jack is fed a solid brick of dog shit and he swallows it with gusto.

Thanks for the laugh.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Jack now has a dense mass of dog shit in his belly.

Even better. I'm chuckling like hell.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Data-the-air-above still pushing with all his strength.

Crushing.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Jack and Smoke's heads don't change shape so Data physically feels no difference.

Everyone feels a difference with any dense mass they are up against, whether that's simply atmosphere within itself in stacked layers or a dense mass placed within it to displace it more, minus the natural volume, which is key.

Quote from: Themightykabool

But you're saying Data crushes more on Jack.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Data KNOWS who's head is jack based on the dense mass of dog shit in Jack's belly.

Quote from: Themightykabool

How does the air-above KNOW what's inside the object?

It doesn't, it just acts on that object by what the object acts on it by displacing it.

Notice you didnt actually say anything here.

The shitbrick inside jack didnt alter his outward appearance.
DataFtheairabove is still oushing the same as he was before on jacks head and pushing equally on smokes head.

Nothing cause any change in DataF.
If DataF doesnt change and doesnt crush any more than he did before jack ate the shitbrick - what crushes jack down more than smoke?

It might be wise if you try to change your tactic because all you're doing here is getting confused.

feel free to adjust the analogy so that we can understand how DataF-the-air-above (with the lower crushing ability vs Kabool-the-air-below) is able to discern the ojbects JackB and Smoke and crush accordingly to their displaced dense mass (dp-ism)

either it's DataF or it's the inherent propoerties of Jack and Smoke outside of the influences from DataF

]I don't need to put much effort in when going up against people like yourself. You offer nothing for argument except this stuff which is fairly funny at times but means nothing.

The point being is you don’t answer anything.  You give loads of essay answers that are nothing but bullshit to what should be simple math questions.


All evidence shows things with enough mass to make buoyancy negligible fall to earth at the same rate adjusted for drag.  And drag / air resistance can be made negligible by dropping objects in pressures below atmospheric pressure. To the point coins and feathers fall at the same rate.


You disagree?  You seem to think the more massive an object is, the faster it will fall? 

Then take a steel solid ball 1 inch in diameter.  How much more dense and or massive must an object be to see a difference in drop rate at 1 foot?  Or even at 5 foot?

It doesn’t require paragraphs of words.  Just takes a simple math answer like.  Twice?  Three times? 


But because den pressure delusion is a con, you can only give speeches like a drunken corrupt politician to the simplest of questions. 

You can say well proven with your gravity acceptance as much as you like but if you're honest with yourself you would admit you have absolutely no clue what gravity is and cannot offer anything to show gravity, except to drop something and claim it's gravity.

Quite the opposite.
If we are honest, we will admit we have a decent understanding of what gravity is, but like all fundamental forces, ultimately we don't know why; and that there are plenty of things that clearly demonstrate gravity.

And if we restrict it from being gravity in general to a downwards force based upon mass which has nothing to do with the air, then there is even more.

Likewise, if we are honest, we would admit that denpressure, where it is all just the air and push on push, cannot explain what is observed at all and the predictions of such a model contradict what is observed in reality; and there is absolutely nothing to support the ideas of denpressure.

So how about you try being honest for once?

If there is no direct proof to a story then why should anyone take them as factual?

And there is plenty of proof of gravity and none for your fantasy.

I don't need to put much effort in when going up against people like yourself.

Which is why you have no problem repeatedly responding to them, even when they are "nasty", even when they continually repeat the same thing.
But then when you would need to put in effort, when you need to do the impossible, you resort to lies and insults.

You see, I offer my denpressure thoughts as just that. I don't offer them as factual

You repeatedly act as if they are factual, including providing several bold claims from your delusional fantasy about what is not true, where you even say you are 100% sure of some of those things.

You do this based on massive adherence to the masses.

No, we do this based upon evidence and explanatory power. Things you entirely lack.

None of you usual suspects challenge anything.

The most basic questions challenge you because you have no answer.

You still can't tell us what is making each layer of air push down more on the next layer than the layer above is pushing on it.
You still can't explain how the air magically knows to have the low pressure air magically push down on an object to overcome the high pressure air below the object.

So you are most certainly challenged. You just ignore it because you don't want to engage with anything that actually challenges your fantasy.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on October 12, 2023, 12:52:33 AM

C'mon man, lighten up a little! Is, "You're projecting again" your number one go-to? Milksop was inspirational, you have to admit!

It seems to have struck a nerve with you.
I use the word, projecting because that's what comes across with you.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You're only fooling yourself with this denpressure bunkum.

You won't ever know that. You can't even understand the basics of it.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You think you can create reasonable doubt in what is already well proven about gravity, and you can't.

You can say well proven with your gravity acceptance as much as you like but if you're honest with yourself you would admit you have absolutely no clue what gravity is and cannot offer anything to show gravity, except to drop something and claim it's gravity.
It's quite amusing to be fair.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

The stories are entrenched in everyday fact. The world doesn't operate the way you pretend it dors.

It certainly doesn't operate in the way you think it does, that's for absolutely sure.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Your well-worn go-to for anything anybody says to refute your bunkum, is it is a story told in a book. All stories told in books are fiction to you, aren't they, Sceptimatic?

All stories can be taken however a person wants to take them.
If there is no direct proof to a story then why should anyone take them as factual?

Quote from: Smoke Machine

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing. You're not even trying. You're not even putting any effort in.

I don't need to put much effort in when going up against people like yourself. You offer nothing for argument except this stuff which is fairly funny at times but means nothing.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

When are you ever going to learn the definition of "evidence"? When are you ever going to learn the definition of "proof"?

When are you going to learn what proof is and what real evidence is?
You see, I offer my denpressure thoughts as just that. I don't offer them as factual no matter how much you and your internet mates scream that I do.
However, you offer everything as factual without having a clue as to whether it is or not. You do this based on massive adherence to the masses. A peer pressured weakling, basically.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

If reality is too boring for you Sceptimatic, that's fine, keep it to yourself. But if you can't keep it to yourself like in this thread, don't be disenchanted when you ask to be challenged and you don't like the outcome.

None of you usual suspects challenge anything. It's clear in how you come across.

Sceptimatic, corresponding with you here is like talking to a small petulent child. I'm so glad it puts a smile on your dial, that you think I'm a peer-pressured little weakling. A peer pressured little weakling who appeals to Einstein and understands his theories.

See, I think you're projecting here, because you're too weak to ever exercise that brain of yours and attempt to understand modern theories of gravity. But just strong enough to laughably create your own pissy little gravity substitute that works nowhere outside your skull.

It puts a smile on my face when I know you're one of the supremely arrogant and stupid spokespersons on the flat earth circuit, using this forum as a testing platform. I still can't decide which spokesperson you really are.

Hey Sceptimatic, i just did a denpressure experiment. I walked around my loungeroom through the air pressure and jumped and touched the ceiling, then fell back down and landed back on my floor.

I assure you, air pressure did not push me down to the ground. I can't even feel this air pressure pushing down on the top of my head or the top of my shoulders and neither can you or anybody, yet I fall.  No crushing down, no soreness to the top of anybody's head or shoulders. Yet, you still adhere to your crazy idea, despite all your senses telling you otherwise.

Have you been peer pressured by those flat earth fools you surround yourself with? Have you been peer pressured to come up with a gravity alternative for the poorly educated who are more gullible and more likely to join your flat earth sect? More pliable for flat earth radicalisation?

You offer your denpressure thoughts as possibly factual, Sceptimatic. Acceptably facual, even. That is what you sneakily propose. You offer them as a viable alternative to the widely accepted understandings of gravity for anyone into flat earth who desperately needs a gravity alternative.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2023, 08:11:51 AM

You can say well proven with your gravity acceptance as much as you like but if you're honest with yourself you would admit you have absolutely no clue what gravity is and cannot offer anything to show gravity, except to drop something and claim it's gravity.

Quite the opposite.
If we are honest, we will admit we have a decent understanding of what gravity is, but like all fundamental forces, ultimately we don't know why; and that there are plenty of things that clearly demonstrate gravity.

You don't know why because you don't know what gravity is. It's really that simple.
There is nothing at all that demonstrates gravity. Seriously there is nothing.
Obviously (as I said before) you can drop an object and claim it's due to gravity but that means absolutely nothing at all and you know it.
Just remember one simple thing.
To drop something you must first offer effort and energy in order to raise the object and only then do you have an equal reaction to that action.
You absolutely must overcome atmospheric pressure at every movement.
You also know this yet offer up gravity that is simply based on a story made up by whoever and whenever.

And if we restrict it from being gravity in general to a downwards force based upon mass which has nothing to do with the air, then there is even more.

But you can't offer it without using atmosphere. You simply can't, except to simply say "it is" and not have to explain it because you feel safe in the knowledge that mainstream so-called science backs you up along with the masses who also adhere to it.

Likewise, if we are honest, we would admit that denpressure, where it is all just the air and push on push, cannot explain what is observed at all and the predictions of such a model contradict what is observed in reality; and there is absolutely nothing to support the ideas of denpressure.

It can explain what is observed but you choose to go with a fictional force that explains absolutely nothing in reality but does explain a lot of stuff offered up as fiction but told to be factual without anyone having a clue as to the reality.

So how about you try being honest for once?

I try to be as honest as I can in a serious manner but how about you try and understand that my denpressure argument is based on my workings, for me, and not offered as factual to the mainstream.
Unlike gravity which is offered as factual even though nobody can explain it to offer any reality.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 12, 2023, 08:11:51 AM

If there is no direct proof to a story then why should anyone take them as factual?

And there is plenty of proof of gravity and none for your fantasy.

There is absolutely no proof of gravity and if there was you would offer it and nail it to your mast. You can't because your absolute reliance is based upon acceptance of stories that offer it as a truth without showing the truth.

If you think differently, which obviously you do, then nail it and show me gravity and how it works so there is no argument.
Don't just come out with the silly Cavendish experiment or dropping objects or saying the Earth supposedly pulls things to the centre.
Actually, show me proof without the utter garbage stories saying it's real when you can't prove it. Just prove it.

As for your argument about denpressure being fantasy. It may well be that to you but you can't prove it is that and I don't offer any of it as 100% nailed-on fact. I offer it as my thoughts based on how I see Earth in my mind and how it may just work.


This is what you fail to understand, or maybe you do but you lose your argument if you accept it as that.
Your major issue is not knowing what any of it is, including your gravity mindset based on massive appeals to authority.


Let's see you prove gravity.
Whatever you offer I will be pushing you on it, so let's see what you have.

Sceptimatic, corresponding with you here is like talking to a small petulent child.

Of course. I mean, why would you argue anything else when you can't overcome my arguments?
Your little attempts to forum bully as part of an extra in the usual suspect camp of failures, and it riles you to think you can't forum control someone. I've seen far too many forum personas such as yourself try and fail, even en-masse.
Sometimes 10 against 1, and the crying starts after many posts where the upper hand cannot be gotten and certainly not given by the lone wolf.
This is why you resorted to name-calling people and whatnot.
It's comical to watch at times, and you came across as sort of smart at first and appeared to open your mind until you felt intimidated by the global masses who frequent this forum. This is why you surrendered and went weak.
You're not alone in being weak, there are plenty like you.

I'm so glad it puts a smile on your dial, that you think I'm a peer-pressured little weakling.

I don't know your size. I don't know your physical strength.
I do have a good idea of your mind and it is very weak and wasted in one respect, forum-wise.
What you do outside of it is not for me to know and nor do I really care.

A peer pressured little weakling who appeals to Einstein and understands his theories.

You appeal to all stories relating to a global model by anyone touted to be an expert on it, even though you have absolutely no clue about any reality of any of it.
You certainly do not understand the so-called theories attributed to Einstein any more than you understand the reality of Santa Claus.

 

See, I think you're projecting here, because you're too weak to ever exercise that brain of yours and attempt to understand modern theories of gravity.

There's nothing to understand. It's fiction and that fiction can never become any reality no matter how it's dressed up in that setup.
It can become more factual when gravity is banished and a potential reality is offered.

But just strong enough to laughably create your own pissy little gravity substitute that works nowhere outside your skull.

Obviously you will say that when you have no clue what gravity is and no clue how denpressure works.
All this time, as others have, you fail to grasp it in any form and it's clear in how you come across.
You are terrified to dare to understand it because it would cramp your forum style and will make you appear weaker to all your new forum friends you think you're making.

It puts a smile on my face when I know you're one of the supremely arrogant and stupid spokespersons on the flat earth circuit, using this forum as a testing platform.

And yet here you are on the same forum trying to be someone based on perusing through the internet stories and mass acceptance of stories for the supposed kudos of arguing against anyone who has alternate thoughts to the mainstream ideals.
Who's the sad one?
All your stuff is served on a platter to gorge on at will, without even having to think.
This is why you and your forum mates have next to no clue about alternate ideas but feel strong in numbers to want to try and forum bully anyone who dares to look into alternates.

The weaklings are plain to see and your mindset is more robotic than genuine thought. In my opinion of course.

I still can't decide which spokesperson you really are.

Decide anything you want. You're entitled to do that and anything else you feel helps you.

Hey Sceptimatic, i just did a denpressure experiment. I walked around my loungeroom through the air pressure and jumped and touched the ceiling, then fell back down and landed back on my floor.

Yep, it works but you simply don't know why and attribute it to a fiction of gravity which you also have no clue as to why.


 

I assure you, air pressure did not push me down to the ground.

You simply can't appreciate your body displacing it. You were born into that pressure but you would certainly feel it if that pressure changed.
Your ear drums or a feeling of being under the weather. Remember?
It's all about understanding it from many angles which you refuse to do because you can't accept any of it can work without the fictional gravity story added in.

I can't even feel this air pressure pushing down on the top of my head or the top of my shoulders and neither can you or anybody, yet I fall.

You can but you're too used to it to give yourself any thought on it. As above.

  No crushing down, no soreness to the top of anybody's head or shoulders.

Have you ever had a sunburn?
Have you ever had frostbite?
Have you ever felt your face sting when going at speed?
Have you ever felt your ears feel like they are going to explode when you gain elevation?
And so on and so on.

Yet, you still adhere to your crazy idea, despite all your senses telling you otherwise.

My senses tell me we are under pressure. So do yours and everyone else. You choose to forget that because you need to add in fictional gravity from the story books to aid in anything like that.

Have you been peer pressured by those flat earth fools you surround yourself with?

Who are those fools?

Have you been peer pressured to come up with a gravity alternative for the poorly educated who are more gullible and more likely to join your flat earth sect?

One minute you said nobody knows denpressure, so it must be mine, right?
Think about that before you get petulant. 

More pliable for flat earth radicalisation?

You seem to be getting frustrated here.
Is this your forum goal?
Are you here to simply try and intimidate anyone who thinks outside of the box?
I mean surely you didn't just come onto a flat Earth forum just to make friends and stand behind anyone who goes against alternate thinkers to a global model, did you?

You offer your denpressure thoughts as possibly factual, Sceptimatic.

I offer them as possibly factual from my point of view. How you take that is entirely up to you.

Acceptably facual, even.

To me it's a possibility. It could be factual but without entire proof that's all it can be to me.
What it is to people like yourself is not my concern.

That is what you sneakily propose. You offer them as a viable alternative to the widely accepted understandings of gravity for anyone into flat earth who desperately needs a gravity alternative.

My thoughts are there for anyone to try and grasp.
It's an exercise in thought, an alternative to the big old story of gravity which does not stand up to any scrutiny except in fictional stories.
Most people who try to understand denpressure go the same way as you. They try to grasp some of it then come under attack by the usual suspects who then, by mass, intimidate them into global adherence only and banish any thoughts on alternates.
Soon enough some of those people are then coaxed into joining the bully squad to add more numbers and take down one or two people.
Generally, 2 people are too much for 10 to 20 globalists and the crying generally starts to the mods.
I've seen it and weirdly the numbers crying to the mods grew and grew, (obviously via PM to each other), until some mods had to act on it and in most cases tell the masses to stop whining.
On certain occasions, I was warned when I retaliated a bit strongly and caused distress to some of the whiners, but I accepted my little warning because I'm not immune to being moderated, which is fair.
I wonder if you've ever complained, or are you made of tougher stuff than the usual suspects?


This is turning into a bickering contest, isn't it? 

But you can't offer it without using atmosphere.

Backwards.  Atmosphere isn’t a force.  Oxygen and nitrogen molecules aren’t a force.

How do you make something accelerate with just oxygen molecules?


Gravity drives molecules in the atmosphere. 

Now.

I have a 1 inch diameter solid steel ball.  At four feet down.  How much faster would a 2 inch diameter steel ball be dropping at four feet?  A three inch diameter steel ball?  A four inch diameter steel ball? 


Take the 1 inch diameter steel ball.  How much more mass and density is required to see a measurable difference in drop rates at four feet from another object? 

My thoughts are there for anyone to try and grasp.

Which has nothing to do with trying to apply den pressure delusion to reality and have it fail measurable at predicting accurate outcomes. 

Like gravity pulls things down through the atmosphere with enough mass to make buoyancy negligible at 9.8 m/sec^2 offset by drag.

Or how you can reduce air resistance to negligible by reducing it below atmospheric pressure where a feather increasingly falls faster and faster until it can drop at the same rate as a coin.  And the change in drop rate for the coin is negligible.  Funny.  Reduce what is the prime mover in your delusion, atmosphere.  And the coin drop rates is essentially the same or slightly faster.  And a feather will increasingly fall faster with an increasingly drop in pressure below atmospheric pressure.  Until there is a point the coin and the father can’t fall any faster, and they end up falling at the same rate. 

You don't know why because you don't know what gravity is. It's really that simple.

We know what gravity is the same as other fundamental forces.

Yes, there are still questions of why, but that doesn't mean we don't know.

There is nothing at all that demonstrates gravity. Seriously there is nothing.

Except everything that you dismiss.
This is from the most basic observations like things falling and the pressure gradient of fluids, to more complex observations like the Cavendish experiment.
This which are explained (and predictable) with gravity, which you cannot explain at all.

Just remember one simple thing.
To drop something you must first offer effort and energy in order to raise the object and only then do you have an equal reaction to that action.

That is more 2 things.
The first is the fact you need energy to raise an object; which is a direct result of gravity.
The reaction has nothing to do with it falling.
The reaction is the force you are applying to push Earth (or something) away.
The fall back down is separate.

If it truly was a magical reaction, then using energy to move something to the right should result it a reaction where it falls back to the left. But it doesn't.

And we don't need to lift things to have them fall. We can push them off the edge of a cliff.
We can also do things like boil water to have it rise, to have it condense higher up and have it fall.

You absolutely must overcome atmospheric pressure at every movement.

And that is NOT to lift an object. That is just to be in the atmosphere. And to stop that, you need to go up.
As the pressure below is greater that means to not get pushed up by the atmosphere something (i.e. gravity) must be overcoming atmospheric pressure at every moment.

You also know this yet offer up gravity that is simply based on a story made up by whoever and whenever.

No, we know that gravity works to explain all this; while your BS does not.

But you can't offer it without using atmosphere.

Yes we can, and we have repeatedly.

What you can't do is explain how the atmosphere magically produces these results.

Again, how does the low pressure air above an object overcome the higher pressure air below to push it down?
Why does it only do this if the object is denser than air?

It can explain what is observed

If it can, why do you continually refuse to provide an explanation?
Why do you continually avoid simple questions which demonstrate massive flaws with your delusional BS?

you choose to go with a fictional force that explains absolutely nothing in reality but does explain a lot of stuff offered up as fiction but told to be factual without anyone having a clue as to the reality.

There you go projecting again.
You are the one clinging to fictional BS which explains nothing.
We are the ones sticking to reality; a real force which actually explains what happens.

We are the ones that can explain why there is a pressure gradient in the atmosphere (and other fluids).
We are the ones that can explain why objects fall, even with a greater pressure below.
We are the ones that can explain why objects less dense than the fluid rise.
We are the ones that can explain why taking an air tight container weighing it, and then pumping the air out of it (meaning it displaces more air) causes it to weigh less.
We are the ones that can explain why taking an object and placing it in a low pressure chamber causes it to weigh more.
We are the ones that can explain why objects significantly more dense than air start accelerating at the same rate, but as they move faster and air resistance becomes more significant they accelerate differently, but putting them in a vacuum chamber with negligible atmosphere inside, they accelerate at basically the same rate.

You can't explain any of that.
When asked, you just lie by claiming you have explained it, throw out insults or entirely ignore it.

So don't lie to us by saying gravity can't explain it and that your fictional BS can.

I try to be as honest as I can

So you just can't be honest?
You suffer from some ailment which prevents you from being honest?
Because you are quite clearly not being honest in this thread.

If you were being honest you would admit that gravity can explain these things while your nonsense can't.

Unlike gravity which is offered as factual even though nobody can explain it to offer any reality.

You mean even though plenty of people can explain it and there are mountains of evidence backing it up.

There is absolutely no proof of gravity and if there was you would offer it and nail it to your mast.

We have, and you just ignore it.
You lie by claiming your delusional BS magically works for that as well, even though you can't explain how.
Again, see the above simple things which gravity explains which your delusional BS can't.

If you think differently, then do the impossible and explain all those issues using your BS.

Don't just come out with the silly Cavendish experiment or dropping objects or saying the Earth supposedly pulls things to the centre.

Why? Because they easily demonstrate your claim is garbage so you don't want to deal with them?

As for your argument about denpressure being fantasy. It may well be that to you but you can't prove it is that

I have, repeatedly.
By pointing out the massive problems with your fantasy, which you cannot explain, which you continually flee from.
I have explained the logical consequences of your fantasy where it is just the air and push-on-push; and how it doesn't even come close to matching what is observed in reality.

In order to save your fantasy, you need to do the impossible and address these massive issues with your fantasy.

You not liking that doesn't magically mean your delusional BS hasn't been shown to be pure fantasy.

This is what you fail to understand

No, it isn't.
It doesn't really matter if you are presenting your delusional BS as absolute fact, or just an idea which might work. The fact that you are presenting it as a possible model of REALITY is what means it is pure BS.
If you were just presenting it as pure fantasy, with no connection to reality at all, you might be able to get away with it as it wouldn't need to match reality, it wouldn't need to play by real physics.

But you do repeatedly present aspects of your nonsense as fact.

Let's see you prove gravity.

No, this is a thread to discuss your delusional fantasy.
Lets see you defend your fantasy and explain how it could ever work.
Deal with the massive issues that make no sense in your fantasy.
Explain what force is causing each layer of air to magically push down more than the layer above.
Explain how the air magically overcomes the pressure gradient so low pressure air above overcomes higher pressure air below to push an object down.
Explain how the air magically knows to only do this to objects more dense than the air.
And so on.

There's nothing to understand. It's fiction and that fiction can never become any reality no matter how it's dressed up in that setup.

So next time you claim someone doesn't understand your fictional BS, would you accept that as an appropriate response?
That there is nothing to understand for denpressure. It's fiction and that fiction can never become any reality no matter how desperate you get or how you try to dress it up?

You refuse to attempt to understand gravity because it would destroy your fantasy, and you can't handle that.

It can become more factual when gravity is banished and a potential reality is offered.

You mean when your delusional BS is banished, and a potential reality like gravity is offered?

All your stuff is served on a platter to gorge on at will, without even having to think.

As opposed to you, that just ignores/rejects/dismisses anything that would require you to think.

The weaklings are plain to see

Yes, you are plain to see.

Your mindset is more robotic than genuine thought.
You just reject anything that doesn't match your fantasy, rather than even attempting to think about it and come to a resolution.
You just reject gravity without being able to show a single fault or provide an alternative.

You simply can't appreciate your body displacing it.

Displacing the air doesn't cause it to push you to the ground.
The air pushes in from all around trying to crush you, but is resisted by the pressure inside your body.
But as the pressure below is slightly greater, it means it pushes you up.

Repeatedly claiming that the air magically pushes you down, when you are entirely incapable of explaining how, doesn't magically make it true.

As we know the air pressure is greater below than above, we know the air is NOT pushing us down.
That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

For the air to push us down, the air pressure needs to be greater above.

It's all about understanding it from many angles

Which you refuse to do because you can't accept that it doesn't work without a force in addition to the air.

Have you ever had a sunburn?
Have you ever had frostbite?

These have nothing at all to do with your magic air allegedly pushing down.
We can feel the sun without getting burnt. We can feel cold weather without getting frostbite.

Have you ever felt your face sting when going at speed?

Related, but just goes against you.
If we can feel the air when going at speed, why can't we feel the air pushing us down?
We can even feel it when skydiving pushing us up.

Have you ever felt your ears feel like they are going to explode when you gain elevation?

Notice how it feels like it would explode, rather than feel like it would magically fly up, or fall down?

My senses tell me we are under pressure.

Under pressure, not pushing down.
And measurements show the pressure is greater below.

You choose to forget that because you need to pretend the air pushes down to escape reality gravity which would destroy your fantasy.

Are you here to simply try and intimidate anyone who thinks outside of the box?

You aren't thinking outside the box.
You are throwing the box away and refusing to think.

I offer them as possibly factual from my point of view.

And we explain how it isn't.
It doesn't even come close.
It goes directly against facts.
To reality, it is not a possibility at all.

It's an exercise in thought, an alternative to the big old story of gravity which does not stand up to any scrutiny except in fictional stories.

Now, with the appropriate understanding of that ambiguous sentence, that could be correct.
It can be an exercise in an alternative thought. Not as something which could actually work to describe reality, but as a thought exercise.
You have your alternative to gravity.
But your alternative does not stand up to any scrutiny except in your fictional stories.

Conversely, gravity withstands your scrutiny, with you unable to show any fault.

Most people who try to understand denpressure go the same way as you.

They get a basic understanding of the fundamentals of it and quickly realise it doesn't work and has no chance to.
This is because they understand the basic idea of the air doing everything, and everything being push on push; while also knowing that fluids have pressure gradients.
This leads to them understanding that an object in air will have a higher pressure below so it will be pushed up.
It leads to them understanding that it shouldn't matter what the density or mass of an object is; that object should be pushed up. Objects denser than air and objects less dense than air should both be pushed up.

This leads them to recognise that it doesn't match reality

They try to grasp some of it then come under attack by the usual suspects who then, by mass, intimidate them into global adherence only and banish any thoughts on alternates.

Now try presenting that honestly,
The massive faults with your delusional BS are pointed out, with you resorting to insulting people for not just blindly accepting your delusional BS.

This is turning into a bickering contest, isn't it? 

Well you certainly aren't providing anything to defend your fantasy.

Sceptimatic, your petty insults are water off a duck's back.

I have overcome your arguments. Blackjack has overcome your arguments. So has dataoverlord, so has the kabool - it's BORING. Oh, and if I came here to make friendships, I have failed miserably. I'm here for the debate, Sceptimatic. This debate quite frankly, is well and truly over. Next........

You've tried to re-write science and what gravity is or isn't, and your alternative it turns out, is equally as ludicrous as "Universal Acceleration."

It just goes to show, if you want to debunk something as well researched and accepted as gravity, you really should do your homework and find out everything about that first. Proclaiming in a loud voice it is fiction from your soap box, may have worked a treat in Victorian England in a little village, but things have changed.

So, what are you going to do with your denpressure, now? Are you going to include it in a vampire novel you are writing? You'd might as well. Every vampire novel has it's own twist on the rules of vampirism, just as your denpressure has a twist on what gravity is. I guess it all depends if you want your vampire novel to be a big seller or not.

It all boils down to a theory being able to be applied in the real world. Einstein's theory of relativity that gravity affects time, has been applied in the real world. GPS on your phone, the time on your phone from atomic clocks, and lasers are all only possible because of Einstein's theory of relativity which includes his theory of gravity.

Denpressure cannot be applied practically in the real world, no matter how much you jump up and down and throw tantrums, Sceptimatic. It can only be useful in a fictional novel or comic book - involving a character dreaming - like you do while awake.

You appeal to all stories relating to a global model

Funny.  You can’t show there is a pressure and density below atmospheric pressure oxygen can’t exist, (That goes for nitrogen, CO2, iron, steel, and so on.) but only helium.


But we know a source of helium is from nuclear reactions of radioactive decay of uranium or thorium.  Nuclear reactions, something that doesn’t require atmosphere push on push. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 14, 2023, 07:10:12 AM

But you can't offer it without using atmosphere.

Backwards.  Atmosphere isn’t a force.  Oxygen and nitrogen molecules aren’t a force.

Everything is a force because everything is always resisting everything.

How do you make something accelerate with just oxygen molecules?

To make anything accelerate you must offer a higher pressure over a lower pressure, no matter what that is.

Gravity drives molecules in the atmosphere.

Gravity is fiction.
 

Now.

I have a 1 inch diameter solid steel ball.  At four feet down.  How much faster would a 2 inch diameter steel ball be dropping at four feet?  A three inch diameter steel ball?  A four inch diameter steel ball?

You like to use small drops and for good reason. It dupes people into a belief of a frictional force at play.

 

Take the 1 inch diameter steel ball.  How much more mass and density is required to see a measurable difference in drop rates at four feet from another object?

Look, your argument, as with others is simply offering any dense mass of similar size dropping at the same rate.
This is what you lot argue, so let's make it simple.

Let's take the one-inch steel ball and a one-inch balloon. Now drop them both and see which hits the ground first.

I know I know...but... but... but that's not fair because atmospheric resistance comes into play and wrecks your so-called gravity.
You see this is why gravity is nonsense and it shows different dense masses of similar size will come up against an atmospheric resistance based on their structural makeup.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 14, 2023, 08:02:03 AM

My thoughts are there for anyone to try and grasp.

Which has nothing to do with trying to apply den pressure delusion to reality and have it fail measurable at predicting accurate outcomes. 

Like gravity pulls things down through the atmosphere with enough mass to make buoyancy negligible at 9.8 m/sec^2 offset by drag.

You can't even explain what this pull is.
And you need to make your mind up whether your gravity is a push or a pull. Your brother thinks it's a push when it suits. Do you?
Anyway, explain this pull. Just tell me what it is and how it works.

Or how you can reduce air resistance to negligible by reducing it below atmospheric pressure where a feather increasingly falls faster and faster until it can drop at the same rate as a coin.

All you're doing is reducing resistance to the dense mass, even if it is a feather.
A feather still creates a massive barrier against a below resistance to slow its descent and weakening that resistance will offer the feather a less restrictive passage but it will never fall at the same rate as a coin unless some other mass is added such as a pin or something dense enough to offer a more clearer push through lesser resistance.

  And the change in drop rate for the coin is negligible.  Funny.

No it's not. It may appear to be when offered up inside a silly tube with an extremely minute evacuation but that's just a short drop and not worth a toss.

  Reduce what is the prime mover in your delusion, atmosphere.

You can reduce the resistance to a dense mass but you can never shut it out.

And the coin drop rates is essentially the same or slightly faster.

Make your mind up.

  And a feather will increasingly fall faster with an increasingly drop in pressure below atmospheric pressure.

To a point, yes, over a short distance. But this offers nothing other than a little trick.

  Until there is a point the coin and the father can’t fall any faster, and they end up falling at the same rate.

See, you now want to use someone's father being dropped with a coin. Stick to the feather. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 14, 2023, 07:10:12 AM

You don't know why because you don't know what gravity is. It's really that simple.

We know what gravity is the same as other fundamental forces.

Yes, there are still questions of why, but that doesn't mean we don't know.

OK then, explain it and convince me.

Of course, you won't because you can't and your argument is to skirt it which is fair enough for me. Just don't expect me to buy into that old gunk.

You haven't got a clue what gravity is and your argument is entirely based on offering snippets from books that make no sense to you but no way in hell are you going to admit that.
You'd rather say you know but hide behind words to the effect of not having a clue.

I know Jack, why should you explain it? You simply can't but will use this excuse and other excuses just like your brother and all the other global adherents on here.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 14, 2023, 08:02:03 AM

There's nothing to understand. It's fiction and that fiction can never become any reality no matter how it's dressed up in that setup.

So next time you claim someone doesn't understand your fictional BS, would you accept that as an appropriate response?
That there is nothing to understand for denpressure. It's fiction and that fiction can never become any reality no matter how desperate you get or how you try to dress it up?

What you take from denpressure or don't take is entirely up to you. I merely let you know you have no clue about it but prefer to waste your time pretending you do.

Sceptimatic, your petty insults are water off a duck's back.

You keep believing that. You certainly don't fool me.

I have overcome your arguments.
 Blackjack has overcome your arguments.
So has dataoverlord, so has the kabool - it's BORING.

None of you have overcome anything because none of you have a clue.
And if it's boring then I'd suggest you take a rest from jumping in-between the legs of the usual suspects to shout " yeah" and so on.

Oh, and if I came here to make friendships, I have failed miserably.

Of course you have because you're a petty forum (attempted) controller who has to make all sorts up to be relevant, so play the good (cough) cop bad (cough) cop routine.
It's funny to watch, so don't give it up.

I'm here for the debate, Sceptimatic.

You're here because you thought people would be a pushover and you thought you could control some and ended up with a smacked arse.

This debate quite frankly, is well and truly over. Next........

Then I'm sure you'll not take any further part with me and concentrate on trying to hug your pretend forum friends to keep the posse strong enough in numbers to gain absolutely nothing against the alternate thinkers.

You've tried to re-write science and what gravity is or isn't, and your alternative it turns out, is equally as ludicrous as "Universal Acceleration."

I don't need to re-write science when it comes to gravity because gravity is simply fiction and is not science at all.

It just goes to show, if you want to debunk something as well researched and accepted as gravity, you really should do your homework and find out everything about that first.

You say this as though you know what gravity is and you absolutely have no clue...at all...ever.
Well researched my arse.
Well rehearsed as a fictional story and act, yes.

Proclaiming in a loud voice it is fiction from your soap box, may have worked a treat in Victorian England in a little village, but things have changed.

It certainly worked for the fiction of gravity and such. A big soap box of the masses with their pitchforks at the ready for any questioners.
Not much has changed except for the slight difference in tools used against alternate thinkers.

So, what are you going to do with your denpressure, now?

I'm going to keep adding to it as I nibble away at what Earth is in its entirety whilst knowing what Earth isn't.
In case you didn't pay attention. It's not a spinning globe in a space vacuum.

Are you going to include it in a vampire novel you are writing?

Are you projecting?

You'd might as well. Every vampire novel has it's own twist on the rules of vampirism, just as your denpressure has a twist on what gravity is.

Hmmm, it seems you like vampire novels as well as maybe writing them.
Real or fiction in your mind?

I guess it all depends if you want your vampire novel to be a big seller or not.

Hmmmm. Projecting again it seems.

 

It all boils down to a theory being able to be applied in the real world. Einstein's theory of relativity that gravity affects time, has been applied in the real world. GPS on your phone, the time on your phone from atomic clocks, and lasers are all only possible because of Einstein's theory of relativity which includes his theory of gravity.

I'm sure you can explain this, right?
Or will you errr errr um um arrr arrr?

Denpressure cannot be applied practically in the real world, no matter how much you jump up and down and throw tantrums, Sceptimatic.

In your mind it can't but then again you have absolutely no clue about it so I'm more than happy with your dull thoughts.

It can only be useful in a fictional novel or comic book - involving a character dreaming - like you do while awake.

It seems you have a lot of little fiction novels to deal with. I hope you sell some.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 14, 2023, 08:02:03 AM

You appeal to all stories relating to a global model

Funny.  You can’t show there is a pressure and density below atmospheric pressure oxygen can’t exist, (That goes for nitrogen, CO2, iron, steel, and so on.) but only helium.

When you can't understand my molecule set up then you'll always be struggling like this.

But we know a source of helium is from nuclear reactions of radioactive decay of uranium or thorium.  Nuclear reactions, are something that doesn’t require atmosphere push on push.

No such thing as nuclear reactions in terms of how we're told, as in, fission. In my opinion.

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 11, 2023, 06:56:30 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 07, 2023, 06:51:57 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 04, 2023, 10:00:07 AM

in this discussion jack is an inanimate object.
he could be a bowling ball.
he could be a balloon filled with helium.
he just a thing that's not air.
he's a dense mass.
is the denseness lesser or more?
jack only knows he is an object.
smoke is also an object.
they don't know anything other than they can feel someone crushed on their sides/ tops/ bottoms.

Everyone knows they are under a crush. The crush and severity of it depend on their dense mass that is being crushed against and by what they displace to be crushed against.

Quote from: Themightykabool

kabool doesn't know what jack or smoke are because kabool is nonsentient air-from-below.
kabool only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

data doesn't know because dataF is nonsentient air-from-above
Data only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

As above, everyone knows because it's all pressure no matter which way it's looked at or felt.

Quote from: Themightykabool

so by your 2nd comment

Smoke and Jack crush back against DataF.
but they don't crush against Kabool?
why do they only crush against Data?

Everyone crushes.
All atmosphere is crushed by any dense mass placed within it, which is always and is only dependent on where in the atmosphere as to the severity of the crush and the crush back.
But it's all crush on crush.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Let's say Data is blind folded.
Data's two arms are equally strong to crush equally.
Jack and Smoke are below him and are equal in their dense mass.
Data's pushing on their heads, but he's blind folded and has no idea who's who.

As above.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Let's say Jack is fed a solid brick of dog shit and he swallows it with gusto.

Thanks for the laugh.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Jack now has a dense mass of dog shit in his belly.

Even better. I'm chuckling like hell.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Data-the-air-above still pushing with all his strength.

Crushing.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Jack and Smoke's heads don't change shape so Data physically feels no difference.

Everyone feels a difference with any dense mass they are up against, whether that's simply atmosphere within itself in stacked layers or a dense mass placed within it to displace it more, minus the natural volume, which is key.

Quote from: Themightykabool

But you're saying Data crushes more on Jack.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Data KNOWS who's head is jack based on the dense mass of dog shit in Jack's belly.

Quote from: Themightykabool

How does the air-above KNOW what's inside the object?

It doesn't, it just acts on that object by what the object acts on it by displacing it.

Notice you didnt actually say anything here.

The shitbrick inside jack didnt alter his outward appearance.
DataFtheairabove is still oushing the same as he was before on jacks head and pushing equally on smokes head.

Nothing cause any change in DataF.
If DataF doesnt change and doesnt crush any more than he did before jack ate the shitbrick - what crushes jack down more than smoke?

It might be wise if you try to change your tactic because all you're doing here is getting confused.

feel free to adjust the analogy so that we can understand how DataF-the-air-above (with the lower crushing ability vs Kabool-the-air-below) is able to discern the ojbects JackB and Smoke and crush accordingly to their displaced dense mass (dp-ism)

either it's DataF or it's the inherent propoerties of Jack and Smoke outside of the influences from DataF

OK then, explain it and convince me.

It has already been explained and you ignored it.
Again, this is not a thread to discuss gravity. If you want that, go make your own thread for it.
This is a thread to discuss your complete failure of a model.
You are using this demand for an explanation as a pathetic deflection because you cannot explain how your delusional BS works at all.

Stop with the pathetic deflection and start describing how your delusional BS works.
What force is acting on each layer of air, independent of the air around it, to cause it to push down more than the layer of air above?
How does displacing the atmosphere magically cause the low pressure air above an object to overcome the higher pressure air below to push it down?
And why does that magically only happen when the object is more dense than air?

What you take from denpressure or don't take is entirely up to you.

No, it is not entirely up to me.
It is also up to you.
You play a very big and important role in what people take away from your nonsense.
If you don't provide an explanation, people can't take that explanation away.
They can only take away what you provide and what they can extrapolate from what you have said.

So if I (or others) have no clue, that is because you are refusing to explain it.

I merely let you know you have no clue about it but prefer to waste your time pretending you do.

No, you repeatedly lie by claiming I have no clue, because you need an excuse to dismiss what I say because you can't explain your BS.
I understand it well enough to know just what questions to ask and what issues to raise to demonstrate your model is garbage and cannot work.

If you want that to change, you need to address the issues raised.

Everything is a force because everything is always resisting everything.

Everything resisting with a force does not mean that thing is a force.

To make anything accelerate you must offer a higher pressure over a lower pressure, no matter what that is.

i.e. the exact opposite of your model, where you have a lower pressure over a higher pressure magically accelerating the object.

Gravity is fiction.

Your hatred of reality will not make it fiction.

You like to use small drops and for good reason.

Yes, as has been explained repeatedly.
It demonstrates your model is pure BS.
It does this even more effectively when you combine the results of the initial acceleration and terminal velocity.

You flee from the initial acceleration at all costs, because it destroys your delusional BS.

Let's take the one-inch steel ball and a one-inch balloon. Now drop them both and see which hits the ground first.

I know I know...but... but... but that's not fair because atmospheric resistance comes into play and wrecks your so-called gravity.

Atmospheric resistance doesn't wreck gravity.

They are 2 separate forces.
The forces act together to cause the observed result.
This demonstrates your claim is BS, that it is NOT just the air.

And you need to make your mind up whether your gravity is a push or a pull. Your brother thinks it's a push when it suits. Do you?

When you are describing a fundamental force like gravity, push vs pull is semantics.

All you're doing is reducing resistance to the dense mass, even if it is a feather.

Which again, shows that it is this dense mass itself (with the help of something like gravity) causing it to fall, not the atmosphere.

If the atmosphere was pushing down, then you are also resisting that downwards push.

No it's not. It may appear to be when offered up inside a silly tube with an extremely minute evacuation but that's just a short drop and not worth a toss.

You mean that is just a simple demonstration that your claim is BS so you need to come up with an excuse to dismiss it.

None of you have overcome anything

Then why do you need to continually flee from trivial questions which demonstrate your model is pure BS which cannot work?
The fact you so desperately deflect, doing whatever you can to skirt around them shows your BS has been overcome and entirely destroyed.
You have no clue how to save your BS except by trying to hide the complete destruction of it.

I don't need to re-write science when it comes to gravity because gravity is simply fiction and is not science at all.

Gravity is scientific. Unlike your delusional BS it is backed up by mountains of evidence and actually works to explain what is observed in reality.
So no, it isn't fiction. There is absolutely nothing to suggest it is.
And your irrational hatred will not change that.

It certainly worked for the fiction of gravity and such. A big soap box of the masses with their pitchforks at the ready for any questioners.

You mean a big mountain of evidence and explanations, with answers to any questioners.

I'm going to keep adding to it as I nibble away at what Earth is in its entirety whilst knowing what Earth isn't.

We know what Earth isn't: FLAT.
We know what is fiction: denpressure.

Why not be honest for once?
You will keep adding to it in the hopes of trying to come up with some reasonable to replace reality.

It's not a spinning globe in a space vacuum.

Then why does all the evidence which can tell one way or another clearly demonstrate that it is a spinning globe in a space vacuum; with nothing to demonstrate the opposite?

In your mind it can't

No, in ANY honest mind.
The only way to pretend it works is to stick gravity into it and hide it behind "displacement".
Again, the most simple aspect:
If it is all the air, and it is all just push-on-push, then the higher pressure air below an object will push it up. ALWAYS!
A simple observation of dropping a ball shows that prediction is wrong.
Your model fails to predict reality.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on October 15, 2023, 12:00:43 AM

Sceptimatic, your petty insults are water off a duck's back.

You keep believing that. You certainly don't fool me.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I have overcome your arguments.
 Blackjack has overcome your arguments.
So has dataoverlord, so has the kabool - it's BORING.

None of you have overcome anything because none of you have a clue.
And if it's boring then I'd suggest you take a rest from jumping in-between the legs of the usual suspects to shout " yeah" and so on.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Oh, and if I came here to make friendships, I have failed miserably.

Of course you have because you're a petty forum (attempted) controller who has to make all sorts up to be relevant, so play the good (cough) cop bad (cough) cop routine.
It's funny to watch, so don't give it up.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I'm here for the debate, Sceptimatic.

You're here because you thought people would be a pushover and you thought you could control some and ended up with a smacked arse.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

This debate quite frankly, is well and truly over. Next........

Then I'm sure you'll not take any further part with me and concentrate on trying to hug your pretend forum friends to keep the posse strong enough in numbers to gain absolutely nothing against the alternate thinkers.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You've tried to re-write science and what gravity is or isn't, and your alternative it turns out, is equally as ludicrous as "Universal Acceleration."

I don't need to re-write science when it comes to gravity because gravity is simply fiction and is not science at all.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

It just goes to show, if you want to debunk something as well researched and accepted as gravity, you really should do your homework and find out everything about that first.

You say this as though you know what gravity is and you absolutely have no clue...at all...ever.
Well researched my arse.
Well rehearsed as a fictional story and act, yes.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Proclaiming in a loud voice it is fiction from your soap box, may have worked a treat in Victorian England in a little village, but things have changed.

It certainly worked for the fiction of gravity and such. A big soap box of the masses with their pitchforks at the ready for any questioners.
Not much has changed except for the slight difference in tools used against alternate thinkers.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

So, what are you going to do with your denpressure, now?

I'm going to keep adding to it as I nibble away at what Earth is in its entirety whilst knowing what Earth isn't.
In case you didn't pay attention. It's not a spinning globe in a space vacuum.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Are you going to include it in a vampire novel you are writing?

Are you projecting?

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You'd might as well. Every vampire novel has it's own twist on the rules of vampirism, just as your denpressure has a twist on what gravity is.

Hmmm, it seems you like vampire novels as well as maybe writing them.
Real or fiction in your mind?

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I guess it all depends if you want your vampire novel to be a big seller or not.

Hmmmm. Projecting again it seems.

 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

It all boils down to a theory being able to be applied in the real world. Einstein's theory of relativity that gravity affects time, has been applied in the real world. GPS on your phone, the time on your phone from atomic clocks, and lasers are all only possible because of Einstein's theory of relativity which includes his theory of gravity.

I'm sure you can explain this, right?
Or will you errr errr um um arrr arrr?

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Denpressure cannot be applied practically in the real world, no matter how much you jump up and down and throw tantrums, Sceptimatic.

In your mind it can't but then again you have absolutely no clue about it so I'm more than happy with your dull thoughts.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

It can only be useful in a fictional novel or comic book - involving a character dreaming - like you do while awake.

It seems you have a lot of little fiction novels to deal with. I hope you sell some.

Sceptimatic, I'm only dealing with one fiction novel in thread. It's called denpressure and you are it's author.

I just wish you'd be honest and let us in on what fiction platform you will be promoting your idea? I mean, you're not going to be awarded a Nobel prize for denpressure, are you now?

Everything to know about denpressure, can be written on the back of a piece of chewing gum wrapper. Everything us humans know about gravity, however, could fill many books, and do.

Maybe you should go back to universal acceleration for your magical cell Earth model, Sceptimagic?

Yeah, I could explain how atomic clocks and GPS and lasers all relate to gravity, but it would require me doing something against one of your rules of life - reading books. I could gorge myself on those books and paraphrase, and come up with a tight, neat, answer just for you. A tight, neat answer which you would immediately dismiss like a small petulant child who refuses to eat his vegetables and instead flings them around the room.

Why don't you tell us all how you have applied denpressure practically, in the real world? Or are you keeping it a secret?

I thought you would play fair, Sceptimatic, and when your king was captured, concede defeat. But you don't and always have an answer for everything don't you? Always trying to squirm your way out of admitting defeat. Maybe you are chasing a Guinness book world record on how long you can keep an inept discussion going on for?

You're a flat earther through and through, Sceptimatic.

feel free to adjust the analogy so that we can understand how DataF-the-air-above (with the lower crushing ability vs Kabool-the-air-below) is able to discern the ojbects JackB and Smoke and crush accordingly to their displaced dense mass (dp-ism)

either it's DataF or it's the inherent propoerties of Jack and Smoke outside of the influences from DataF

You need to adjust it, not me.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2023, 07:52:35 AM

OK then, explain it and convince me.

It has already been explained and you ignored it.
Again, this is not a thread to discuss gravity. If you want that, go make your own thread for it.

When you and your mates offer it to arfgue against denpressure then you make it relevant to the discussion, so how about you answer it.
None of you can unless you gather the books and basically regurgitate what's in them without even knowing what you are regurgitating in term,s of anything being factual.
You won't admit it because it cramps your supposed know-all style.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2023, 07:34:59 AM

Everything is a force because everything is always resisting everything.

Everything resisting with a force does not mean that thing is a force.

Everything that resists has to resist by using force. There's no getting away from it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2023, 07:34:59 AM

Gravity is fiction.

Your hatred of reality will not make it fiction.

Your love of fiction won't make it a reality.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2023, 07:34:59 AM

You like to use small drops and for good reason.

Yes, as has been explained repeatedly.
It demonstrates your model is pure BS.
It does this even more effectively when you combine the results of the initial acceleration and terminal velocity.

You flee from the initial acceleration at all costs, because it destroys your delusional BS.

In reality there's no such thing as terminal velocity. It's fiction.
Objects either accelerate or slow down. They do not fall at any constant rate.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2023, 07:34:59 AM

Let's take the one-inch steel ball and a one-inch balloon. Now drop them both and see which hits the ground first.

I know I know...but... but... but that's not fair because atmospheric resistance comes into play and wrecks your so-called gravity.

Atmospheric resistance doesn't wreck gravity.

They are 2 separate forces.
The forces act together to cause the observed result.
This demonstrates your claim is BS, that it is NOT just the air.

No. There's one force and it's atmosphere.
The gravity addition is the nonsense that keeps the silly space vacuum and spinning Earth alive in the minds of those who had it battered into them and ridiculed whenever they ever questioned it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2023, 07:47:38 AM

And you need to make your mind up whether your gravity is a push or a pull. Your brother thinks it's a push when it suits. Do you?

When you are describing a fundamental force like gravity, push vs pull is semantics.

No. You offered it but refused to explain it.
Naturally, you can't explain it with any reality attached because it's utter garbage. A big old con job.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2023, 08:17:03 AM

It's not a spinning globe in a space vacuum.

Then why does all the evidence which can tell one way or another clearly demonstrate that it is a spinning globe in a space vacuum; with nothing to demonstrate the opposite?

There is absolutely no evidence.
All there is is stories and pointed fingers to go with them, saying, Look, this is a spinning globe because everything is moving.
And all the rest of the utter gunk to go with it.
It's not evidence, it's brainwashing.

When you and your mates offer it to arfgue against denpressure then you make it relevant to the discussion, so how about you answer it.

It isn't offered to argue against denpressure.
Denpressure fails all on its own without the need for gravity.
Instead, your dismissal of it is being rejected.

And notice how yet again, you just deflect.
You complain about gravity, entirely ignore the problems with your BS, and just to a later part which is much less significant.
This seems to be a pattern for you; ignoring what destroys your fantasy.

Again, stop deflecting, and address your complete inability to defend your delusional BS.

Everything that resists has to resist by using force.

Which does not make the thing a force.
e.g. a brick wall resists you pushing on it with a force. But that doesn't make the brick wall a force. It is a brick wall.

Your love of fiction won't make it a reality.

I know, which is why a FE will not be reality.
Which is why cancer and other ailments magically vanishing wont become a reality.

In reality there's no such thing as terminal velocity. It's fiction.

No, in reality, there is such a thing as terminal velocity. But like many things you entirely ignore what the words mean.
Terminal velocity is a limiting velocity.an object accelerating through the air will approach terminal velocity.

No. There's one force and it's atmosphere.

If that was true, you wouldn't need to continually flee from so many issues.
If that were true, then the air would only be able to push down with the same force as above, unless it is flowing. You need an extra force to explain how it pushes down with more force.
If that were true, then the air being a higher pressure below an object, would push it up. You need an extra force to explain why it falls.

The gravity addition is the nonsense that keeps the silly space vacuum and spinning Earth alive

As has been explained to you repeatedly, your delusional BS works better with a RE than a FE.
The RE is just the core of your big gobstopper molecule. Which itself is just a part of the solar system gobstopper and so on.

So if your delusional BS worked, we wouldn't need gravity for a RE or a vacuum.
You even accept vacuums do exist, you just refuse to call them vacuums, instead opting to call them extremely low pressure systems.

There is absolutely no evidence.

There is no evidence to support your fantasy. There is plenty for a RE, space and gravity.
Your wilful ignorance and rejection of that evidence will not change it.

Now again, care to tell us what magic is causing each layer of air to push down more than the layer above?
Or what magic is causing low pressure air above an object to overcome the higher pressure air below and push it down?

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 16, 2023, 08:31:47 AM

feel free to adjust the analogy so that we can understand how DataF-the-air-above (with the lower crushing ability vs Kabool-the-air-below) is able to discern the ojbects JackB and Smoke and crush accordingly to their displaced dense mass (dp-ism)

either it's DataF or it's the inherent propoerties of Jack and Smoke outside of the influences from DataF

You need to adjust it, not me.

Why should i adjust a description of your theory?

Its your theory.

1
Yluve already admitted DataTheairabove crushes less than kabooltheairbelow.

2
You already admitted datatheairabove can not crush more than he can.

3
Yet somehow densemass displacement in jack displaces dataF more than Smoke and that displacement causes DataF to crush more.

But then 3 directly conflicts with 1 and 2.