Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1710 on: August 18, 2023, 11:56:49 AM »
you could compress a spring if you pushed it up with enough upward acceleration to overcome it's k factor.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1711 on: August 18, 2023, 03:31:02 PM »
you could compress a spring if you pushed it up with enough upward acceleration to overcome it's k factor.

Ok?

And I know I can’t compress a spring by pushing it up into increasingly less dens atmosphere.

But can compress a spring regardless of earths’s atmosphere or the micro pressure of space with enough applied large/instantaneous magnitude of acceleration.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1712 on: August 18, 2023, 04:18:22 PM »
Yes
You can.
Using the method i said.




Woo look at that springy ball compress

https://youtube.com/shorts/x4kLFyLBBU4?feature=share




« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 04:19:55 PM by Themightykabool »

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JackBlack

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1713 on: August 18, 2023, 05:37:34 PM »
You cannot verify anything from your point of view.
Repeating the same lies wont help you.

There is plenty one can do to verify Earth is round.
You have already had plenty of these explained to you, with you unable to show a fault.

Your wilful ignorance of reality does not change it.

Now again, how does the low pressure air above an object magically overcome the high pressure air below to push the object down?

This is a very important question for your model, yet it is on you cannot answer.

For me to believe something I do require proof. For me to accept something I require good evidence that could offer a distinct possibility of truth.
Unless it fits with your delusional fantasies, in which case you accept it without thinking.

If you required proof or good evidence, you wouldn't be hear claiming that the air magically pushes things down, nor would you be claiming that there is no such thing as a pulling force, nor that Earth is flat rather than round.

None of that is supported by evidence, and there is plenty of evidence showing it is wrong.

If I'm so convinced gravity is fiction then I'm also convinced a gravimeter is also fiction.
A gravimeter is a physical device you can purchase.
Saying you are convinced it is fiction is just saying you are wilfully rejecting loads of reality because it doesn't fit your delusional fantasy.
https://scintrexltd.com/product/a10-outdoor-absolute-gravimeter/

These devices do exist.
Gravity explains how they work just fine.
Your nonsense can't.
But really, this is not a decent argument as it just ties back into "why do things fall"?

A better example is a mercury barometer.

There are plenty of meters out there that measure atmospheric pressure.
And most are fundamentally different from devices that measure gravity.

Some, like a mercury barometer can measure both, if you know the other one.

As for time travel, it cannot exist because time is a human (maybe) construct of numbers and wording to basically regiment society.
Again, our measurement of time is. Time itself is not.
Day and night would still pass without any humans measuring it.

Alternate Earth shape is up for serious debate. It is always being debated.
It is being debated, but not seriously.
We see this with how FEers need to flee from such simple questions, and need to repeatedly lie about the RE model to pretend it doesn't work; and how they need to repeatedly lie by claiming no one can verify the shape of Earth, only to contradict that by boldly claiming they know Earth is flat.

We also see it with dishonest FEers like the one who set up an experiment to show Earth is flat by passing a light through a hole, demonstrated Earth is not flat, and then dismissed it. Or the other FEer, that wanted to use a laser ring gyroscope to show Earth is not spinning, only to demonstrate it is spinning, and then look for any excuse to dismiss it.

The serious debates have been settled. Earth is round, roughly a sphere; more precisely an oblate spheroid, and even more precisely a geoid.

The choice comes from realising the spinning globe is nonsense.
Except you cannot show it is nonsense in any way. So clearly the choice comes from something else.

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Smoke Machine

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1714 on: August 19, 2023, 08:28:26 PM »
Mate, why does an alternate Earth thinker need to restrict themselves to physical shape?
The word alternative Earth means there is no restriction.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

 I mean do you have an alternate Sceptimatic mindset as well, or do you trust your own eyes of what you can see of yourself, and how you look in a mirror, and in photos, to know you aren't a giraffe and are in fact shaped as a human?
My mindset is from me, not from a made-for forum name.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

 Do you trust other humans around you when they refer to you as Sceptimatic?
Not at all.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

Clearly you aren't a person who requires evidence to believe things though, are you?

Absolutely. For me to believe something I do require proof. For me to accept something I require good evidence that could offer a distinct possibility of truth.
Otherwise, I stay sceptical.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

I have no clue how a gravimeter works, and was hoping you would tell me?
You have no clue and yet you used it as some kind of proof.
You do exactly the same when you argue for a spinning globe and all the trimmings associated with it.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

I mean, you're so convinced gravity isn't real, i just naturally assumed you explored every avenue including gravimeters in debunking gravity to your own satisfaction?
If I'm so convinced gravity is fiction then I'm also convinced a gravimeter is also fiction.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

Have you built for yourself a denpressure meter, or are you satisfied a gravimeter is simply a device which measures denpressure, but the makers of a gravimeter aren't aware of that?
There are plenty of meters out there that measure atmospheric pressure.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

This whole idea of Earth cells with multiple Earth's you could visit, is a belief in other dimensions, time travel, and doorways to other worlds all rolled into your very own science fiction story, without the science.
It depends on what you mean by dimensions.
As for time travel, it cannot exist because time is a human (maybe) construct of numbers and wording to basically regiment society.
Time cannot offer anything more of past or future, only as is and what was or what maybe but never what was can be is and what future maybe can be is.
I'm postulating different Earths under different stages of development and maybe offering the impression of what once was for us and what could potentially be more advanced as we advance.



Quote from: Smoke Machine

I'm fine with you contemplating an alternate Earth purpose for existence outside of what science says, by Earth being part of a larger body being the greater living universe, but alternate Earth shape is not up for serious debate.
It really isn't.
Alternate Earth shape is up for serious debate. It is always being debated.
The fact that schooled Earth shape as a globe becomes a mass acceptance and opinion, does not offer the masses proof, it only offers the masses a safe route through an argument against any minority of alternates to that schooling.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

  WHY some people like you, CHOOSE to believe Earth is not a physical globe, that's up for debate and discussion, and is fascinating in its own right. I'm sure there are many, many, many different reasons.
The choice comes from realising the spinning globe is nonsense.

 
Quote from: Smoke Machine

If you want to pretend Earth is a different shape just for fun, or because thats what you need to not be a dribbling mess, that's fine, but explain how that is fun for you or why you need that in your life to function? 
I can offer that to you to be fair.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

Us humans have explored the surface of this planet and more than adequately arrived at the inescapable conclusion we live on a globe.
You are trying to argue from authority, not from your own personal facts.
Your argument is based on a comfort zone among peers you believe are offering factual information and that's basically it.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 The surface of the earth is our home and we are inquisitive creatures, and have made discoveries.
That does not offer anything for Earth's shape as anything like a spinning globe, except for you to appeal to authority for it to be.


Quote from: Smoke Machine

 As a race, we build on discoveries and continue to discover new things.
Of course we can discover new things and that is fine for our ease and knowledge of Earth but it does not offer us anything remotely to do with a spinning globe. In fact, it offers anything but.


At the end of the day, we're still basically sheep-like and can be penned on a whim.

I'm trying to understand some of your replies here, Sceptimatic.

So let's take an alternative Earth thinker with no restrictions. You are implying there is no finite physival restriction to the physical Earth as it is. It's like you're implying it's shape can be anything you want it to be, in your imagination and outside your imagination. Are you implying you are some sort of God who can shape the Earth just by thinking about it? I mean, are you so introverted and egocentric, that to you, only your thoughts are important and nobody else's thoughts matter?

You're postulating a different take on time travel by saying our Earth is connected to a hundred thousand Earth's or so, each which may be in a different stage of it's life. Each Earth life essentially being a copy ofvthe others. So you could pick one of those other Earth's and experience either a past moment from our Earth unfolding in the present, or a future event for our Earth unfolding on another Earth in it's present.

It's a "Twilight Zone" episode or an episode of "Black Mirror" waiting to happen. What you're saying could be generated as a simulation on a super computer for a person living their life in a 3d simulation wearing 3d goggles. Or it could be a person in a coma, trapped in a dream state where they are free to roam wherever their imagination takes them, like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz.

I can safely say, Earth as a spinning globe is not in your accepted reality, is it, Sceptimatic? But it is constantly on your thoughts, becsuse you are battling it whenever you post on here, and whenever you are confronted with the globe model in your day to day life.

Why don't you try to see that your immediate experience of the world is as flat and stationary (as it is for each of us), but it could be flat and stationary on a globe Earth? It could be a small, flat and stationary part, neatly contained upon the larger spinning Earth globe? Have you considered this?

The big difference between you and "globalists" is you are simply extending your immediate sense of flatness and stationary beyond your immediate personal field of experience and influence. You think you have cause to do so, but what is the cause? 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2023, 11:12:14 PM by Smoke Machine »
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1715 on: August 22, 2023, 03:01:53 AM »

Pay more attention to what I've been saying and you won't need to use hypocrite and be wrong about it.

Understand that my HYPOTHESES are just that.
I do not offer anything as fact,

You claim you only offer what you observe.  So you’re just a right out lair?
Making lies up doesn't aid you in any way.
I always state I never offer anything as factual if I can't physically prove it.
On the other hand, people like yourself claim anything as factual based on merely appealing to authority.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 06:21:51 AM by sceptimatic »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1716 on: August 22, 2023, 03:04:30 AM »

 You merely copy and regurgitate what's on offer for you.


Like me actually pushing around a jeep wrangler? 

Why can I push the wrangler around horizontally into dense atmosphere thousands of miles thick but can’t push the same wrangler up hill into less dense atmosphere only 60 miles thick?  Displacing less atmosphere.  How is the atmosphere offering resistance before I even try to push it up hill.  Where I can push the wrangler around horizontally. How is the speed at which I can push the wrangler around in the atmosphere offering anything but negligible resistance. 

Why can’t I just push the wrangler up hill a bit, stop.  Push the wrangler up the hill a little more and stop.  Do the same thing over and over.   But the wrangler can’t be pushed up hill at all.
If you paid any attention at all to what I explained then you'd have no need to keep asking thesame question.
It's been answered and if you refuse to see the answer or do not accept my answer, then no problem...but do not pretend I didn't answer.

Any repeats will be ignored. Just letting you know.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1717 on: August 22, 2023, 03:10:22 AM »
But why down?



Lets take the DP model of a domed with a foundation.
Turn the qhole thing sideways.
Turn it upside down.

Do things still fall to the origianl down?
Or to the foundation?
You can't turn it upside down.
The natural dome is due to the orientation it is from a denser foundation to a less dense ceiling.

And also I somehow missed this post.



theoretically if we're part of a cell and the cell is part of a giant tree and the giant tree falls over and the cell is now sideways and the foundation of the cell is now on the side - will things fall toward the foundation or to the universal down?
Theoretically if that was the case then everything would likely be destroyed within the cell.
But seeing as my thoughts are what I've said, then this is what is being dealt with.

The cell as is, is orientated in the way I've explained.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1718 on: August 22, 2023, 03:16:26 AM »
you have absolutely no clue about anything

I know when I throw a ball straight up it slows down faster than what is accounted for by air resistance.

And I know I can’t compress a spring by pushing it up into increasingly less dens atmosphere.



I can compress a spring if it’s between to “foundations.”




I was thinking about the wrangler again.  I understand the equal and opposite reaction to pushing it horizontally.  I don’t understand the equal and opposite reaction in your delusion.  In den pressure delusion what is the equal and opposite reaction as my less dense, less volume body of 220 pounds pushes a 3000 plus pound vehicle to taking up more volume and my body moves it horizontal against the thousands of miles of atmosphere.  Am I displacing the same amount of atmosphere thousands of miles away equal to the volume of the wrangler?  Funny, I push it around the garage either with all the doors open or all the doors closed.
Do me a little favour.
Actually, pay some attention and absorb what I've been saying and then you won't need to ask the same question whilst pretending I never answered.
Just take some time to absorb.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1719 on: August 22, 2023, 03:18:14 AM »
If you paid any attention at all

That your a fucking lair.  You make claims about you only post about what you experience.

Then ask for proof helium is a renewable resource and is created as molecules are evacuated at low pressure.  And asked if you ever seen your helium skin being formed like what is supposedly in your imaginary dome.  Than you what to play, I’m just being hypothetical.

Go fuck off.  Come back when you have actual proof of den pressure delusion and you’re not here just to troll. 

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Themightykabool

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1720 on: August 22, 2023, 05:20:08 AM »
But why down?



Lets take the DP model of a domed with a foundation.
Turn the qhole thing sideways.
Turn it upside down.

Do things still fall to the origianl down?
Or to the foundation?
You can't turn it upside down.
The natural dome is due to the orientation it is from a denser foundation to a less dense ceiling.

And also I somehow missed this post.



theoretically if we're part of a cell and the cell is part of a giant tree and the giant tree falls over and the cell is now sideways and the foundation of the cell is now on the side - will things fall toward the foundation or to the universal down?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1721 on: August 22, 2023, 05:57:28 AM »
You cannot verify anything from your point of view.
Repeating the same lies wont help you.

Nor will offering the very same thing, help you.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1722 on: August 22, 2023, 06:20:57 AM »
I'm trying to understand some of your replies here, Sceptimatic.

So let's take an alternative Earth thinker with no restrictions. You are implying there is no finite physival restriction to the physical Earth as it is.
Not at all. I believe there are physical restrictions to our Earth cell. It's a cell as far as I'm concerned in thinking, so, it being a cell means it has restrictions.

Quote from: Smoke Machine
It's like you're implying it's shape can be anything you want it to be, in your imagination and outside your imagination.
In anyone's imagination anything can be what anyone wants it to be but that makes no reality inroads into what it actually is in its entirety.
To know it would be to cease argument.
We do not know Earth and its entirety.
We are dining on stories told and it comes down to who decides to follow that story as a story of fact and who has alternate ideas to that story in which they may believe it being fiction...full or in part.



Quote from: Smoke Machine
Are you implying you are some sort of God who can shape the Earth just by thinking about it?
I don't believe in any god in terms of how we are conditioned to.



Quote from: Smoke Machine
I mean, are you so introverted and egocentric, that to you, only your thoughts are important and nobody else's thoughts matter?
Every person's thoughts are worthy to themselves and maybe many others. Mine are just that, as are yours.


Quote from: Smoke Machine
You're postulating a different take on time travel by saying our Earth is connected to a hundred thousand Earth's or so, each which may be in a different stage of it's life.
Maybe billions or trillions and so on.



Quote from: Smoke Machine
Each Earth life essentially being a copy ofvthe others. So you could pick one of those other Earth's and experience either a past moment from our Earth unfolding in the present, or a future event for our Earth unfolding on another Earth in it's present.
All Earth's would be in the present. No Earth cell would be in the past or future.
What I'm saying is, each cell may be marginally less or more advanced as we perceive our own advancement.




Quote from: Smoke Machine
It's a "Twilight Zone" episode or an episode of "Black Mirror" waiting to happen.
It could very well be like that to the mind and even a bit more than that if there were any possibility of cell breakthrough by whatever means.



Quote from: Smoke Machine
What you're saying could be generated as a simulation on a super computer for a person living their life in a 3d simulation wearing 3d goggles. Or it could be a person in a coma, trapped in a dream state where they are free to roam wherever their imagination takes them, like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz.
Any idea can be put into a program.




Quote from: Smoke Machine
I can safely say, Earth as a spinning globe is not in your accepted reality, is it, Sceptimatic?
Absolutely not and for good reason. It does not exist as any reality but it does make for a good story of fiction.



Quote from: Smoke Machine
But it is constantly on your thoughts, becsuse you are battling it whenever you post on here, and whenever you are confronted with the globe model in your day to day life.
Of course. I was basically brainwashed into it so I'd be lying of I said it wasn't.
The difference is, I do not accept it as a reality.


Quote from: Smoke Machine
Why don't you try to see that your immediate experience of the world is as flat and stationary (as it is for each of us), but it could be flat and stationary on a globe Earth?
Because that's not what I believe.



Quote from: Smoke Machine
It could be a small, flat and stationary part, neatly contained upon the larger spinning Earth globe? Have you considered this?

Not at all.



Quote from: Smoke Machine
The big difference between you and "globalists" is you are simply extending your immediate sense of flatness and stationary beyond your immediate personal field of experience and influence. You think you have cause to do so, but what is the cause?
The cause to do so comes from being told fictional stories about what Earth is and what is beyond it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1723 on: August 22, 2023, 06:24:22 AM »
If you paid any attention at all

That your a fucking lair.  You make claims about you only post about what you experience.

Then ask for proof helium is a renewable resource and is created as molecules are evacuated at low pressure.  And asked if you ever seen your helium skin being formed like what is supposedly in your imaginary dome.  Than you what to play, I’m just being hypothetical.

Go fuck off.  Come back when you have actual proof of den pressure delusion and you’re not here just to troll.
Maybe try and calm yourself down before you re-engage with me.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1724 on: August 22, 2023, 06:26:27 AM »
If you paid any attention at all

That your a fucking lair.  You make claims about you only post about what you experience.

Then ask for proof helium is a renewable resource and is created as molecules are evacuated at low pressure.  And asked if you ever seen your helium skin being formed like what is supposedly in your imaginary dome.  Than you what to play, I’m just being hypothetical.

Go fuck off.  Come back when you have actual proof of den pressure delusion and you’re not here just to troll.
Maybe try and calm yourself down before you re-engage with me.


Hahahhahahahaha

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1725 on: August 22, 2023, 06:34:25 AM »

If you paid any attention at all

What, your word salads?

If your delusion is all around us with no gravity. Why can I push a car all day long horizontally against thousands of miles of more dense atmosphere than up.  But I cannot push a car uphill against 60 miles of atmosphere with the more dense atmosphere below wanting to help me push the car into less dense atmosphere above. 

What is different about up into less dense atmosphere. 

What makes a ball thrown straight up slow down faster than what is accounted for by air resistance.  Change direction of travel 180 degrees, fall back to earth under acceleration from less dense atmosphere into more dense atmosphere.  Into the path of greatest resistance.

How does an object accelerate with no applied force.  Into greater resistance from less resistance. 


You model is useless and makes no sense. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 06:40:51 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1726 on: August 22, 2023, 06:38:03 AM »
If you paid any attention at all

That your a fucking lair.  You make claims about you only post about what you experience.

Then ask for proof helium is a renewable resource and is created as molecules are evacuated at low pressure.  And asked if you ever seen your helium skin being formed like what is supposedly in your imaginary dome.  Than you what to play, I’m just being hypothetical.

Go fuck off.  Come back when you have actual proof of den pressure delusion and you’re not here just to troll.
Maybe try and calm yourself down before you re-engage with me.

Why.  You make allegations of people posting about things that don’t experience. That it’s a lie. 

And you claim you post about your personal experiences.

Prove helium is a renewable resource.  How how you have experienced this. 

Prove as you reduce pressure you end up with more helium than you started with.

Prove helium makes a “skin” that isn’t solid, liquid, gas, plasma.

Prove your helium skin dome exists.

You’re the one that wants to post about provable personal experiences. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 06:39:45 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1727 on: August 22, 2023, 08:42:19 AM »

If you paid any attention at all

What, your word salads?

If your delusion is all around us with no gravity. Why can I push a car all day long horizontally against thousands of miles of more dense atmosphere than up.  But I cannot push a car uphill against 60 miles of atmosphere with the more dense atmosphere below wanting to help me push the car into less dense atmosphere above. 

What is different about up into less dense atmosphere. 

What makes a ball thrown straight up slow down faster than what is accounted for by air resistance.  Change direction of travel 180 degrees, fall back to earth under acceleration from less dense atmosphere into more dense atmosphere.  Into the path of greatest resistance.

How does an object accelerate with no applied force.  Into greater resistance from less resistance. 


You model is useless and makes no sense.
Calm down and pay attention to what's been said and you won't need to keep typing angrily.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1728 on: August 22, 2023, 08:43:51 AM »
If you paid any attention at all

That your a fucking lair.  You make claims about you only post about what you experience.

Then ask for proof helium is a renewable resource and is created as molecules are evacuated at low pressure.  And asked if you ever seen your helium skin being formed like what is supposedly in your imaginary dome.  Than you what to play, I’m just being hypothetical.

Go fuck off.  Come back when you have actual proof of den pressure delusion and you’re not here just to troll.
Maybe try and calm yourself down before you re-engage with me.

Why.  You make allegations of people posting about things that don’t experience. That it’s a lie. 

And you claim you post about your personal experiences.

Prove helium is a renewable resource.  How how you have experienced this. 

Prove as you reduce pressure you end up with more helium than you started with.

Prove helium makes a “skin” that isn’t solid, liquid, gas, plasma.

Prove your helium skin dome exists.

You’re the one that wants to post about provable personal experiences.
I don't have to prove anything any more than you can offer proof against what I say and also you cannot offer proof oif a spinning globe, so don't be wasting your time coming out with this stuff.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1729 on: August 22, 2023, 09:29:12 AM »

Calm down and pay attention to what's been said and you won't need to keep typing angrily.

But your word salad is useless.

People have paid attention.

You are a proven liar and hypocrite. It’s not even a debatable fact.  It’s well documented. 

58 pages of your crap, and you can’t list one experiment that lets people experience den pressure delusion.

What can I do to create a den pressure delusion helium skin.

What can I do to breakdown air molecules so I end up with more helium than what I started with.

What can you do and document to prove helium is a renewable resource.

Where the hell is your dome.

You claim personal experience then when cornered you want to switch to hypothetical.

Why does an object increase in weight in a chamber as the den pressure delusion prime mover atmosphere is decreased.

Why does a feather fall faster and faster in a chamber as the atmosphere which is the prime mover of den pressure delusion is increasing evacuated.

If there is no force of gravity, why do objects fall by accelerating from less resistance into increasing density and resistance.

If there is no gravity.  What makes gas molecules overcome their tendency to dissipate and bunch up at sea level.  What force causes the gas molecules to not go from higher pressure to equalize with the lower pressure of the upper atmosphere.  What force keeps the higher potential of pressure at sea level from equalizing with the upper atmosphere with less pressure and potential. 

There is no “upper” foundation in den pressure delusion.  There is supposedly no gravity.  The den pressure delusion atmosphere has no reason to bunch up at sea level and should strive to reach equal potential at all altitudes.


If atmosphere and density are the prime movers of den pressure delusion, why does a feather and a coin fall faster and at the same rate when atmosphere is evacuated to the point air resistance becomes negligible.  In your delusion, as atmosphere is reduced, things should fall slower.  Your delusion has less of its prime mover.  As air resistance is made negligible, the feather and coin should drop at different rates due to their densities. Yet they fall at the same rate. 





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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1730 on: August 22, 2023, 09:39:01 AM »

I don't have to prove anything any more than you can offer proof against what I say and also you cannot offer proof oif a spinning globe, so don't be wasting your time coming out with this stuff.

As in,

Other than why a ring laser gyro drifts 15 degrees an hour.

Coriolis effect

Why storms spin in opposite direction between the different hemispheres.

As in why the sun and moon set where they are physically blocked from view by the earth.

That earth rotates in a similar fashion as other planets that have moons.

As proof concerning den pressure delusion, it is worthless modeling and predicting real world events.



Gravity offers the real modeling a ping pong ball and a steel ball twenty times more dense fall at the same rate.

What modeling and prediction does den pressure delusion offer for dropping a steel ball twenty times more dense than a ping pong ball.

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JackBlack

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1731 on: August 22, 2023, 03:07:08 PM »
Nor will offering the very same thing, help you.
And I will keep objecting to your dishonest BS until you address the issue.
Again, Why do things fall?
How does the low pressure air above overcome the high pressure air below to push an object down?

If all there is is push, and it is only the air acting; then we consider an object surrounded by air, we have a higher pressure below than above. This means the air should push the object up.
It can NEVER push the object down, unless you find a way to reverse that pressure gradient, such as by putting it in a tube with one end sealed; or throw the object at a high velocity, or generate a high velocity wind. But all of these works just as well going up or down.

So you have no explanation for how the air pushes objects down.

Again, the closest you get is by appealing to the mass of the object, as if the mass of the object is what is trying to go down, and all the air above does is help the mass overcome the resistance from the air below; and if there was no air, then the mass would simply fall.
But that would be admitting it is not the air.


Making lies up doesn't aid you in any way.
Yet you do it all the time.

I always state I never offer anything as factual if I can't physically prove it.
But you do, countless time.
You repeatedly assert that the RE is false, yet you can't physically prove that at all.
You repeatedly assert that there is no such thing as pull, yet you can't physically prove that at all either.

You don't say that is merely your opinion.
You state it as a fact.

And before you try that dishonest BS, that doesn't help you.
Unless you use a qualifier, if you make a claim about reality you are claiming it as a fact.

But all of this is just father demonstrating your dishonesty.

Your claim wasn't that you only claim as fact things which you can physically prove, it was this:
For me to believe something I do require proof. For me to accept something I require good evidence that could offer a distinct possibility of truth.

Yet you routinely believe things (or at least act like you do), without any proof at all.
You believe things without any evidence that offers any possibility of truth.

Your entire denpressure BS is based upon wishful thinking. It has no evidence to back it up at all, and is trivially refuted by mountains of evidence.
You just blindly assert it works with no reasoning or evidence at all.

On the other hand, people like yourself claim anything as factual based on merely appealing to authority.
No, not just authority.
Also appealing to evidence (including evidence you can obtain yourself) and logical reasoning.
2 things, all your delusional BS severely lack.

It's been answered and if you refuse to see the answer or do not accept my answer, then no problem...but do not pretend I didn't answer.
No, it hasn't.
You provided vague BS which directly avoids the problem.
Again, it is ultimately the same problem you faced right from the start.
How does the air magically push things down?
When you push an object up a hill (or lift an object up, etc), you have a greater force from below pushing up than you do from above pushing down.
When you push an object down a hill, you have a greater force from below resisting than you do from above helping.
This means it should be harder to push an object down than up.

But again, this is ultimately the same question you refuse to answer:
How does the low pressure air above overcome the higher pressure air below to push the object down?
You have no answer.
Because any answer would involve admitting it isn't the air.

Actually, pay some attention and absorb what I've been saying and then you won't need to ask the same question whilst pretending I never answered.
Just take some time to absorb.
Follow your own advice.
Actually pay attention to what we have been saying.
Then you wouldn't need to keep spouting the same non-answer.
Instead, you would recognise the issue and discard your BS.

It does not exist as any reality but it does make for a good story of fiction.
And here you go claiming things as facts.
Even saying it is not reality.
Yet you have NOTHING to support this blatant lie of yours.
You cannot provide any evidence to challenge the spinning globe, nor can you refute the evidence which supports it.

The cause to do so comes from being told fictional stories about what Earth is and what is beyond it.
So the cause for you to think Earth is flat comes not from any evidence that it is flat, but merely that you were told Earth is round and what that means for reality.
i.e. you can't handle Earth (and by extension you) being insignificant in the grand scheme of things?

I don't have to prove anything any more than you can offer proof against what I say
And we have.
Simple logical proof (even using your own words against you), to show your model is complete garabge.
Proof you cannot refute and need to continually flee from.

Once more, the pressure gradient of the atmosphere (any fluid in fact) and the known ways that air pressure interacts with objects, demonstrates beyond any sane doubt that the air pushes objects up, not down.
With that, your model is DOA.
You need to explain how the low pressure overcomes the higher pressure below to push an object down if you want any hope of your model working.
Until you actually address this issue, your garbage is disproven.

you cannot offer proof oif a spinning globe
We can, and have. There are mountains of it.
This includes plenty you can test yourself.
Such as going to a mountain and looking at how far away the horizon is as you ascend and how the angle of dip to the horizon changes as you ascend.
Observations of distant objects, especially as they go over the horizon or are viewed at different distances; with the bottom obscured.
Foucault's pendulum, or laser ring gyroscopes, including observations around the world.
The existence of 2 celestial poles, always 180 degrees apart, including how the angle of elevation of these poles change as you move around Earth.
How the sun and moon remain roughly the same angular size, with roughly the same face of the moon facing everyone regardless of where they are, yet appearing at different angles.
The constellations in the sky appearing the same regardless of where you are on Earth, but appearing at a different angle.

All of this points to a round Earth, with some also pointing to Earth rotating (rather than everything else rotating around us).
You would have to have nature itself conspiring against you to have all this otherwise.

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Mikey T.

  • 3546
  • +0/-1
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1732 on: August 22, 2023, 08:24:36 PM »
Look Scepti can believe whatever he wants, but when he makes matter of fact statements as if his personal beliefs are true then he needs to provide evidence.  Saying we refuse to listen is a cop out, because he may not understand what factual statements are.  He may not understand the difference between reality and his personal beliefs.  For those reasons, if he were to alter his statements to being, in his model XYZ, or he thinks XYZ, I would never question him. 
He wants everyone to accept his beliefs without question, therefore he consistently attacks anyone who questions him but doesn't accept his answers.  It's like questioning a very devout person on discrepancies and illogical statements in their chosen religious text.  You will never convince him that he believes in something illogical, it's his belief.  But we question and highlight his unwillingness to have honest conversations about his beliefs BECAUSE he constantly makes statements attempting to pass those beliefs off as fact.  We don't want a naive person wandering in and latching onto his beliefs thinking they are facts.  His unwillingness to make this small change shows he is either unable to grasp reality or just that dishonest.  There really is no other options at this point. 
If he were honest, he would.....   doesn't need to be followed up with him either trying to provide evidence for a belief, which is technically impossible really, or to retract his beliefs, only to add a simple disclaimer to his statements that they are beliefs, not facts, or facets of his hypotheses.  Again, not uttered as factual statements. 
But he will see this as a grave personal attack

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1733 on: August 22, 2023, 11:28:58 PM »

Calm down and pay attention to what's been said and you won't need to keep typing angrily.

But your word salad is useless.
Then stop wasting your time on it.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

People have paid attention.
You certainly haven't.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

You are a proven liar and hypocrite. It’s not even a debatable fact.  It’s well-documented.
It's not documented, it's basically your mindset and that of others.
Using this guff to try and one-upmanship yourself is silly and laughable.

 
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

58 pages of your crap, and you can’t list one experiment that lets people experience den pressure delusion.
I have and I've done many.
You're not interested in anything that goes against your global story adherence.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

What can I do to create a den pressure delusion helium skin.
Nothing, unless you have something that can offer a massive breakdown of molecules.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

What can I do to breakdown air molecules so I end up with more helium than what I started with.
You have to go down the superfluid route.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

What can you do and document to prove helium is a renewable resource.
Everything is a renewable source.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Where the hell is your dome.
I've explained this so deeply and so many times. It shows you took absolutely no notice for you to be saying this.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

You claim personal experience then when cornered you want to switch to hypothetical.
Only personal expeerience for experiments that help me prove certain things, as I've already put out.
I've also said on numerous occasions that my alternate Earth is based on my own hypotheses and I do not pass it off as fact. I pass it off as my theory and I repeatedly tell anyone they should not accept it but to argue it they must first understand it from my side.
You and your internet friends do none of that because you're too angry and far too afraid to go past your schooled ideals.
And that's fine by the way, just don't think your little digs gain you any traction because all they do is basically weaken your argument.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Why does an object increase in weight in a chamber as the den pressure prime mover atmosphere is decreased.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Increase as in how. What's the setup?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Why does a feather fall faster and faster in a chamber as the atmosphere which is the prime mover of den pressure  is increasing evacuated.
Less resistance against the dense mass.
Even under some natural evacuation, the stacking is still there, only it's more broken down molecules, meaning less densely packed, meaning the dense mass of any object within will still be squeezed down against less resistance to that mass.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

If there is no force of gravity, why do objects fall by accelerating from less resistance into increasing density and resistance.
By their own dense mass displacement of the area it is in. It's basically molecularly spring-loaded at all times and that release against below resistance overcomes that resistance by that spring release at all times until a foundation is hit that offers more resistance to the object in order to stop it.

If you'd paid some attention you'd grasp some but you absolutely do not know one thing.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

If there is no gravity.  What makes gas molecules overcome their tendency to dissipate and bunch up at sea level.
Simple denser mass molecular stacking keeps less dense molecules above from pushing them out of the way unless there was a higher force employed to offer a push through.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

  What force causes the gas molecules to not go from higher pressure to equalize with the lower pressure of the upper atmosphere.

Their dense mass make-up.
I'm sure you've had a jar with many different densities of grains within where you can shake it and see the layers take their form based on their dense mass, right?
I'm almost sure this won't register with you.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

 What force keeps the higher potential of pressure at sea level from equalizing with the upper atmosphere with less pressure and potential. 
Same questions in a different format.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

There is no “upper” foundation in den pressure delusion.
A foundation is simply a higher resistance to anything stacked. The atmosphere is a stacked system and each layer is a foundation to another from ground to ceiling/dome and beyond.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

  There is supposedly no gravity.
There is no gravity. It's a fiction and it cannot be explained as to what it is  for good reason, yet you people argue for it as if you're experts and yet can offer nothing other than things fall.
I find it bemusing to be fair.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

  The den pressure  atmosphere has no reason to bunch up at sea level and should strive to reach equal potential at all altitudes.
Nothing can ever be equal. Life would not work if that were the case.
It always has to be an action and then an equal reaction to that action in anything.
As I said before so so so so many times. The stacking of atmospheric layers is more dense to less dense which is the reason we survive and the reason why the atmosphere can hold for our survival.
You just have to pay attention to why and you simply have no idea nor any mindset to ever dare to understand it and I'm more than happy with that because people like you are not here to understand anything other than ensuing alternate thinkers are ridiculed but you are absolutely inept at doing that alongside your twin brother.

There's a little dig for the sake of it.
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

If atmosphere and density are the prime movers of den pressure , why does a feather and a coin fall faster and at the same rate when atmosphere is evacuated to the point air resistance becomes negligible.
Air resistance is never negligible. As I said above there is always a displacement of any object within it at all times and it's basically a squeeze down against lesser resistance to that held dense mass.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

 as atmosphere is reduced, things should fall slower.
No. If the resistance is less the dense mass will overcome it more.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

 Your delusion has less of its prime mover.  As air resistance is made negligible, the feather and coin should drop at different rates due to their densities. Yet they fall at the same rate.
Same question again.
As above.


Imagine wasting your time doing this with me.
You should really have better things to do.
However, the more you have a go at me the more I explain and the more genuine people will actually try to understand where I'm coming from.


« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 12:24:19 AM by sceptimatic »

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Smoke Machine

  • 3975
  • +19/-20
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1734 on: August 22, 2023, 11:44:21 PM »
If you paid any attention at all

That your a fucking lair.  You make claims about you only post about what you experience.

Then ask for proof helium is a renewable resource and is created as molecules are evacuated at low pressure.  And asked if you ever seen your helium skin being formed like what is supposedly in your imaginary dome.  Than you what to play, I’m just being hypothetical.

Go fuck off.  Come back when you have actual proof of den pressure delusion and you’re not here just to troll.

He's a "fucking lair"???? Are you calling him a sex dungeon or his cell theory a sex dungeon? I suppose you've tried every other trick, why not flattery as well!

Umm, Sceptimatic's alternate Earth theory is as a cell, not a domed pizza. Sceptimatic lives inside a giant cell, or as you prefer to call it, a fucking lair.

If you haven't seen Sceptimatic's evidence for denpressure, you just need to pay better attention.

For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1735 on: August 22, 2023, 11:54:10 PM »

I don't have to prove anything any more than you can offer proof against what I say and also you cannot offer proof oif a spinning globe, so don't be wasting your time coming out with this stuff.

As in,

Other than why a ring laser gyro drifts 15 degrees an hour.
I'm sure you can expplain this, right?
Standing side by side with me, tell me what happens with this ring laser gyro and how it's set up.
In your own words.
I'm sure you'll offer copy and paste as if you actually know.
That is the beauty of arguing with you. I know you rely on simply looking up your answers and that makes me smile.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Coriolis effect
I'm sure you can't explain this without copy and paste, right?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Why storms spin in opposite direction between the different hemispheres.
They don't.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
As in why the sun and moon set where they are physically blocked from view by the earth.
Like anything. A ship in the sea at the theoretical horizon line to a person on the beach but if you climb a little elevation and look out you see that same ship much closer from the theoretical horizon line and not on it.
The ship hasn't moved, just you have in elevation.
Nothing sets, it just moves away, whether that's you against a ship or a sun or the sun and the ship moving away from you.
Either way, you lose more and more light back to your eyes.

Pretty simple really and in no way it offers a spinning globe, except in the fiction books.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
That earth rotates in a similar fashion as other planets that have moons.
In your fiction books, yes.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
As proof concerning den pressure , it is worthless modeling and predicting real world events.

I have no need nor the tools to do so so I'm not really bothered about that.
Those who have the tools can predict and it isn't anything to do with a spinning globe and space suns and such..


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Gravity offers the real modeling a ping pong ball and a steel ball twenty times more dense fall at the same rate.
No they don't fall at the same rate and you know it.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
What modeling and prediction does den pressure delusion offer for dropping a steel ball twenty times more dense than a ping pong ball.
Simple atmospheric displacement and resistance as I've consistently told you.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1736 on: August 22, 2023, 11:55:44 PM »

And I will keep objecting to your dishonest BS until you address the issue.

Feel free to object to anything. You do this as a default to anyone so nothing is a surprise with you or your brother.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1737 on: August 23, 2023, 12:21:12 AM »
Look Scepti can believe whatever he wants, but when he makes matter of fact statements as if his personal beliefs are true then he needs to provide evidence.  Saying we refuse to listen is a cop out, because he may not understand what factual statements are.
You people do refuse to listen. You refuse to try and udnerstand my side and that's clear and also your prerogative.
There's no cop-out from my side. I take on all comers and most turn into a posse offering the same attacks and yet I deal with that posse to the point of frustration for the posse who then get increasingly bitter and nasty then start projecting as if I'm the one actually doing it. It's comical in a way.
My digs back after taking massive amounts of attacks, are so mild they're almost pleasant but the posse have to twist to ensure they save face.


Quote from: Mikey T.
He may not understand the difference between reality and his personal beliefs.
That depends on what reality actually is in terms of Earth and beyond.
You certainly don't know but the storybooks offer you a belief system that smothers you in a comfort blanket among like-minded peers who basically police each other to toe the party line.


Quote from: Mikey T.
  For those reasons, if he were to alter his statements to being, in his model XYZ, or he thinks XYZ, I would never question him. 
My statements are always this in terms of my alternate Earth. It's people like you that twist it to suit your arguments.
By all means, carry on.


Quote from: Mikey T.
He wants everyone to accept his beliefs without question, therefore he consistently attacks anyone who questions him but doesn't accept his answers.
Not at all. I ask people to accept that I have alternate ideas and if they want to understand it then they would need to try and do the jigsaw.
Most are afraid to do so because to even appear to grasp something would render them being attacked by the usual suspects (including yourself) to ensure they do not proceed any further.


Quote from: Mikey T.
It's like questioning a very devout person on discrepancies and illogical statements in their chosen religious text.
I find this to be the case with many global believers to be totally fair.


Quote from: Mikey T.
  You will never convince him that he believes in something illogical, it's his belief.
That's because nobody has come up with anything that offers anything more logical to me.
They may think it is to themselves, and that's where we differ and why the arguments/debates rumble on.


Quote from: Mikey T.
But we question and highlight his unwillingness to have honest conversations about his beliefs BECAUSE he constantly makes statements attempting to pass those beliefs off as fact.
This proves you take no notice or you use this to suit your agenda.
I never offer anything as fact, unlike people like yourself that simply appeal to authority as an argument of you being in possession of facts.




Quote from: Mikey T.
We don't want a naive person wandering in and latching onto his beliefs thinking they are facts.
What a load of codswallop.
The global Earth is nonsense and many a naive person has fallen into that trap, including myself until I had the mind to question it and realise how duped I was.
And don't worry about anyone being naive or following my thoughts. There are enough of you people on the forum to ensure they're attacked in numbers to make them take a back seat. I've seen it so many times over the years.
I see a few strong people on here who can battle against the onslaught of people who come here to argue for a globe for years and years, for some strange reason and those people have my utmost internet forum respect for their name and tried arguments against the party line.

Quote from: Mikey T.
His unwillingness to make this small change shows he is either unable to grasp reality or just that dishonest. 

That's for anyone to decide. I'm not in charge of your mind and you're welcome to throw in what you feel the need to. I'll just call it out every now and then.


Quote from: Mikey T.
There really is no other options at this point. 
There's always options.


Quote from: Mikey T.
If he were honest, he would.....   doesn't need to be followed up with him either trying to provide evidence for a belief, which is technically impossible really, or to retract his beliefs, only to add a simple disclaimer to his statements that they are beliefs, not facts, or facets of his hypotheses.

Already added so many times. Your and other's failure to grasp that is not my issue and I understand not grasping it is likely to deliberate to offer you some kind of ammunition to argue.
It's fun in a strange old way seeing you people try all avenues.


Quote from: Mikey T.
Again, not uttered as factual statements. 
But he will see this as a grave personal attack
They always are attacks. As for personal attacks...Nah, I don't.
If you were in a room with me and were saying it to my face or if we were in a video conference and such, then yes, I would, as you would.
On here I view the attacks as attacks on a forum name and that's it. I have no issues with it and you can do it as much as you want to but don't cry when you get frustrated and start projecting.

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DataOverFlow2022

  • 8350
  • +48/-76
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1738 on: August 23, 2023, 01:23:27 AM »


I'm currently where I'm at now because I'm doing little experiments and such.

No. I don't dismiss science as utter nonsense. Science is science, which is the Earth.
It's the misinformation passed off as scientific which I class as nonsense.



It's not documented,

So.  What are your little experiments that you refuse to share in a thread literally titled “Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?”

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DataOverFlow2022

  • 8350
  • +48/-76
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #1739 on: August 23, 2023, 01:41:01 AM »

I'm sure you can expplain this, right?


Start with this.  You mean correct a ring laser gyroscope to allow to show a specific direction.  The gyroscope keeps it orientation in 3D scope, but the earth changes relative position to the gyroscope.

I believe the 15 degrees an hour is actually at the equator.  The earth turns 360 degrees in 24 hours.

Let’s see…

Quote
“Behind the Curve”: the Ring Laser Gyroscope Experiment

https://flatearth.ws/behind-the-curve-1




There’s an error in his hypothesis: if the gyroscope cannot detect the rotation, then the experiment fails to prove rotation, not that it disproves Earth’s rotation. Such results could have been taken as evidence for a stationary Earth, but cannot be regarded as 100% conclusive proof. However, if the gyro was able to detect 15° rotation, then it proves Earth’s rotation beyond any reasonable doubt.

And the gyro indeed showed the drift, so his errors were inconsequential. But instead of going with his initial hypothesis and conclude Earth is rotating, he was not willing to accept that and tried to disprove the result. He invented various ad-hoc hypotheses and even tested them. However, the gyro still indicates Earth is rotating.

On another occasion, to the producer of the film, he mentioned that he already spent $20000 on the “freaking gyro”, failed to disprove Earth’s rotation, but did not want to end up with what he regards as “failure.” He asked the producer to keep the conversation secret, which obviously was not heeded by the producer.

The film shows us that flat Earthers are not interested in the truth.


The sub I was on.  Because of gyroscope dirt, the sub would at intervals go up to periscope depth.  We had an antenna that could be deployed from that depth where GPS satellites could be used to “reset” the navigation system with the gyroscopes.  Not lots of towers in the pacific.  We could also get emails as the mission allowed by satellite linkup.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 01:43:25 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »