Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 02:42:19 PM

Why wouldn't I include all the bullies in the schoolyard?

You didn't include the bullies.
If you did, you would have included yourself.

Instead you seem to be including those that call people out on their BS.

Just look at how you are acting now. Offering absolutely nothing constructive and just insulting people.
Yet you have the nerve to call others bullies.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 03:01:57 PM

Your arguments threaten to shatter his worldview which he treasures. He is trying to show you the value and beauty of his worldview devoid of what science says, and you refuse to see it.

He is trying to cling to a fantasy, and acting like this fantasy is reality.
I object to that BS.

If they were presenting it as a fantasy, as an alternative idea to reality, rather than presenting it as if it is reality, I would be more open.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 03:01:57 PM

If you persist and succeed in your arguments, you risk causing a shattered person, here. Is that what you want? Is that the endgame for you?

If they are that fragile they should be in a psychiatric institution.

Right now, you are acting like House in this clip:

Is that what you want to be?
Encouraging delusions?

When I see a debate on "experiment ideas to prove denpressure", 40 thread pages long, with nobody declaring a winner, and nobody conceding defeat, there can be only one explanation - there is madness afoot.

Truck loads of madness.

I feel like House inside that asylum just by reading this thread. If I'm house, you, Jack, must be the doctor who believes that patient is better off catatonic from drugs, than living a life of delusion. Do you think Sceptimatic would be better off, catatonic, than spreading his joy of denpressure? You'd be happier, wouldn't you?

Forum threads have their limits. In the real world, you could take Sceptimatic to a lab and carry out physical experiments that no party present, can dismiss the results of. Here on a forum, you can't force anybody to carry out an experiment, or convince a person the results of an experiment they haven't seen.

I'm not encouraging a delusion, and neither was House. I'm accepting of a different viewpoint, and that's all Sceptimatic's ever asked.

He's looking deeper into the world, beyond the superficial face of physical science. Sceptimatic knows there is more to life than science offers, and is brave enough to wear his theories on his sleeve. From your perspective, he's miles away from reality, but from his perspective, it's you who are miles away from reality. He has the insight to recognise this is a patterned world.

My posts are always constructive, and I call people out on their bullshit - including internet bullying. I have explained to you repeatedly why Sceptimatic is running rings around you blokes and laughing in your faces, and you don't want to admit it.

Your habit of addressing every sentence he makes, and dissecting it through the lens of science - how constructive has that been? From a certain viewpoint, you've been very insulting and intolerant.

How do you want this debate with Sceptimatic to end?

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 25, 2023, 09:30:31 PM

How do they spin in the first place?

Man you’re stupid.

Are you trying to hurt my feelings? 

A wire with ac current flowing through it can induce current in a nearby wire or metal object.  Why does that work in denpressure .

Vibrational frequencies or basically creating heat by pressure/compression and breaking down molecules into hydrogen and super compressing it as an instance.

Unless you want to tell me how electricity works through wires and whatnot.
Go and find something to aid you as I know you have no clue yourself.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 25, 2023, 09:30:31 PM

First understand why current flows and why.

What I don’t understand, and you will not explain is how current flow is produced in your den pressure delusion. 

Understand how water and steam flow and you'll get a basic grasp of how molecules on a smaller scale work to produce electricity.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 25, 2023, 09:30:31 PM

By trapping broken-down molecules and creating ultra-low pressures within.

Explains in no way real world electrical potential. 

And yet you're explaining nothing.

If there is no attraction in den pressure  what is trapping broken down molecules, why, and how.

Expansion and compression into a structure that holds the broken down molecules and not allowing more dense molecules to enter easily which creates a massive resistance of compressive force.

What are they broken down from and to?

Themselves.
Just in variety. So much variety as to be almost mind-numbingly infinite in configurations.

  There are no molecules broken down in a spinning generator.
The materials under high stress from the rapid turning of the generator would not hold their structural integrity if they are being broken down in den pressure. 

So what are your molecules actually doing to spin a generator?

There is no atmospheric pressure change in a wire with ac current inducing current in nearby metals. Nothing is being broken down from one molecule to another.

There actually are both on a tiny scale broken down to the scale we are under but you're not bothering to put your mind to work so you won't have a clue.

The wires and core of an electromagnet are the same materials and “molecules” with or with out voltage applied.  With no changes in atmospheric pressure.

Same materials to your eye but a change in molecular make-up.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 25, 2023, 09:30:31 PM

When do you see flow?

When do you see electric current flow with a change of atmospheric pressure without a difference in electrical potential.  Why is the output of a 1.5 volt AA battery the same at or below atmospheric pressure. 

It isn't.

There is no atmospheric pressure change driving an electromagnet with the turning on and off an electromagnet, and the strength of the electromagnet doesn’t care about the pressure of the atmosphere.

It's not about it caring, it's about what's happening with small scale molecular pressures and how and why they work.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 25, 2023, 09:30:31 PM

Nothing can be attracted.

Then how is hydrogen bonded with oxygen to form water.

Expansion and compression by vibration and frequencies equalling energy applied.

  Why does it take less energy to melt water ice with hydrogen bonds than sodium chloride with its ion bonds.

Denseness of molecular make-up.

Why does the atmosphere with no force and no directionality in your delusion causes gas molecules to over come their tendency to disperse and bunch up at sea level?

 While atmosphere is only “thick” enough to supports human life about 30 or 40 miles up, but goes on thousands and thousands of miles along the surface.

It's called layering along the horizontal and stacking to the vertical.
This means each stacked layer going up is less dense than the one below.
Horizontally they basically cancel each other out in near equalibrium and will continue to do so until there is an interruption within the layers of a stack that offers unequal balance.

  Where in your domed earth with no gravity and directionality the atmosphere should reach near uniform density through the tendency of gas to disperse to the dome.  Not bunch up at sea level. 

Not disperse, stack.
Natural stacking.

Why is the dome and up not foundation?

Because the foundation is denser than up.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 02:42:19 PM

Quote from: Mikey T. on June 24, 2023, 06:59:16 AM

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 23, 2023, 03:41:22 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on June 23, 2023, 03:06:30 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 23, 2023, 07:54:13 AM

Gravity does not exist.

And there you go again, claiming things as fact.

If you want to claim it doesn't exist, then stop using it in your delusional nonsense.
Explain how the air, which has a lower pressure above, manages to push an object down; and explain why it should care about the mass of the object at all.

What's wrong with Sceptimatic claiming things as fact? You do it all the time, JocksrBlack. So does dribbleoverflow, Mypet P, and Theunsightlyghoul. It's Sceptimatic's prerogative.

It's not his fault, none of you have the brain power to prove him wrong, is it? He's running rings around each of you and laughing in your faces. 

When did any of you think up your very own alternate theory like denpressure, to explain the world? All too busy being balls deep in science text books, believing everything you read.

Lord, you give them eyes, yet still they cannot see.   

So smoke, why are you including me now? 
I get you're still hurt that Jack disagreed with you a while back.  But did you start missing the taste of Timmy's so badly that you got all super sloppy with Scepti and got it on your face more?

Why wouldn't I include all the bullies in the schoolyard? Is your butt hurt 'cause I dared to take the "mickey" out of your username? Before you scrape it off to make your victory cake, half that egg on your face isn't egg - it's Jock's and Dribble's DNA.

You just continue to do what you do best, ganging up on the lone flat earther, as hilariously, every punch just bounces off him. It's an A class comedy.

I'm not butthurt at all.  I normally skip your posts, as they don't matter.  I was just curious because it seems like you are wanting attention
For scepti, I'm not bullying him, I am pointing out his dishonesty.   But you always jump on the side of anyone Jack is arguing with, so as normal, you don't matter.

Mypet P. You're not bullying him? Calling him dishonest and a liar in almost every post you make to him? If he believes what he's typing, how can he be dishonest? You haven't proved he doesn't believe what he's typing, and how can you?

Contrary to your delusion - my posts do matter. You did reply to my post, when you could have skipped it. I could likewise say, you always jump on the side of Jack, no.matter what.

This debate as it is, could go on, infinitely.

Vibrational frequencies or basically creating heat by pressure/compression and breaking down molecules into hydrogen and super compressing it as an instance.

Which is completely and utter BS that has nothing to do with why AC current flowing through a copper wire will induce current flow in a nearby copper wire.

Note added.  As demonstrated why current can flow across a “gap” in  a vacuum tube. 



The more atmosphere evacuated from the tube, better its operation. 

Which has noting to do with why a copper wire wrapped around an iron nail creates an electromagnet with voltage applied.

In your den pressure delusion of nothing attracts what is the significance of an hydrogen atom and how do they create current flow in a copper wire or solar panel. 

Why can’t a gas cylinder of hydrogen have leads hooked up to it to be used as a battery? Why doesn’t the gas cylinder of hydrogen induce current in nearby metals and wires?  Why can a tank of hydrogen gas be stored in an explosive gas / dust area with no fear of the hydrogen trapped in the gas cylinder creating a static charge that would be an ignition source? 

Understand how water and steam flow and you'll get a basic grasp of how molecules on a smaller scale work to produce electricity.

Funny.  Pure / distilled water is a poor conductor of electricity with there being two hydrogens to every oxygen.  Water is not considered a conductor until it’s contained with something like salt.

Which you still haven’t explained why hydrogen would bond to oxygen to form water if nothing in den pressure delusion attracts.

And yet you're explaining nothing.

Ac current flowing through a copper wire is created by a spinning magnet where the positive and negative poles push and pull electrons that have a negative charge to create a rising and collapsing magnetic field.  This can be represented by using an oscilloscope to “sense” the changes in electrical potential in reference to ground / zero electrical potential.  This is seen as a sine wave. Items like capacitors, diodes, and inductors can be used to change a sign wave into a square wave or to a DC current.

For AC current, electrons flow through a copper wire totally void of hydrogen. Hydrogen is a poor conductor of electricity.  The pushing and pulling of the magnetic of the generator causes the current to go from zero potential in electricity, peak at some positive value, descend to back to zero potential electricity.  Then peak to some negative value that represents that reverse flow of current from positive.  This is the sine wave of current and voltage.  In a motor or inductor the sine wave of voltage and current become 90 degrees out of phase. 

The movement AC current causes a magnetic field to build and collapse as it flows through a copper wire.  The rising and falling of a collapsing magnetic field can induce current flow in other unshielded copper wires too close.  This is not pressure dependent.  Depends on using conductors like copper, not poor conductors like hydrogen.

It's called layering along the horizontal and stacking to the vertical.
This means each stacked layer going up is less dense than the one below.
Horizontally they basically cancel each other out in near equalibrium and will continue to do so until there is an interruption within the layers of a stack that offers unequal balance.

Which in no way explains why they layer.  I can use a cylinder and a hand plunger to push down and compress a volume of trapped atmosphere. I can create a new equilibrium with my hand with the trapped gas at higher pressure.

Nothing is broken down. I have as much O2, N2, CO2, and argon before being compressed. 

When I remove my hand the pressure equalizes by the gas molecules moving towards the less pressure potential from higher pressure.  They move the plunger up with their flow to equalize with the lower pressure above the plunger.  The plunger returns up to its original position, the pressure in the cylinder is equalized with the pressure outside.


What is the “plunger” that causes the atmosphere to overcome its tendency to dissipate or “decompress” and attract at sea level to bunch up and “compress.  There is no applied force of gravity and directionality in the den pressure delusion. Density is not a force.  Or why would more dense air in an air compressor tank flow to less dense atmosphere when vented to atmosphere. 

Your atmosphere free of gravity has no force to compress it at sea level.  Your springy atmospheric molecules should be expanding up from foundation into less dens / less pressure atmosphere to equalized like when my hand was removed from the plunger compressing the trapped gas in the cylinder.

Layering is from the atmosphere being in near equilibrium with gravity, and is the force that keeps it from “decompressing” from sea level.  What keeps the atmospheric molecules from acting in the tendency to dissipate. Gravity keeps the “compressed” molecules at sea level from “decompressing”. 


If density is a “force” in den pressure delusion with no directionality, how would things know to fall down dropped along a cliff.  Why not drop to the Cliff face? 

By the way.  These are electrons arcing across the gap of the metal.

Quote from: JackBlack on June 24, 2023, 03:13:02 PM

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 02:42:19 PM

Why wouldn't I include all the bullies in the schoolyard?

You didn't include the bullies.
If you did, you would have included yourself.

Instead you seem to be including those that call people out on their BS.

Just look at how you are acting now. Offering absolutely nothing constructive and just insulting people.
Yet you have the nerve to call others bullies.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 03:01:57 PM

Your arguments threaten to shatter his worldview which he treasures. He is trying to show you the value and beauty of his worldview devoid of what science says, and you refuse to see it.

He is trying to cling to a fantasy, and acting like this fantasy is reality.
I object to that BS.

If they were presenting it as a fantasy, as an alternative idea to reality, rather than presenting it as if it is reality, I would be more open.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 03:01:57 PM

If you persist and succeed in your arguments, you risk causing a shattered person, here. Is that what you want? Is that the endgame for you?

If they are that fragile they should be in a psychiatric institution.

Right now, you are acting like House in this clip:

Is that what you want to be?
Encouraging delusions?

When I see a debate on "experiment ideas to prove denpressure", 40 thread pages long, with nobody declaring a winner, and nobody conceding defeat, there can be only one explanation - there is madness afoot.

Truck loads of madness.

I feel like House inside that asylum just by reading this thread. If I'm house, you, Jack, must be the doctor who believes that patient is better off catatonic from drugs, than living a life of delusion. Do you think Sceptimatic would be better off, catatonic, than spreading his joy of denpressure? You'd be happier, wouldn't you?

Forum threads have their limits. In the real world, you could take Sceptimatic to a lab and carry out physical experiments that no party present, can dismiss the results of. Here on a forum, you can't force anybody to carry out an experiment, or convince a person the results of an experiment they haven't seen.

I'm not encouraging a delusion, and neither was House. I'm accepting of a different viewpoint, and that's all Sceptimatic's ever asked.

He's looking deeper into the world, beyond the superficial face of physical science. Sceptimatic knows there is more to life than science offers, and is brave enough to wear his theories on his sleeve. From your perspective, he's miles away from reality, but from his perspective, it's you who are miles away from reality. He has the insight to recognise this is a patterned world.

My posts are always constructive, and I call people out on their bullshit - including internet bullying. I have explained to you repeatedly why Sceptimatic is running rings around you blokes and laughing in your faces, and you don't want to admit it.

Your habit of addressing every sentence he makes, and dissecting it through the lens of science - how constructive has that been? From a certain viewpoint, you've been very insulting and intolerant.

How do you want this debate with Sceptimatic to end?

Scepoy is the king
200pg in the ballsotocs thread!

When I see a debate on "experiment ideas to prove denpressure", 40 thread pages long, with nobody declaring a winner, and nobody conceding defeat, there can be only one explanation - there is madness afoot.

Boldly declaring a winner serves no purpose. And all you are doing is fuelling the madness, defending the madness.

I feel like House inside that asylum just by reading this thread. If I'm house, you, Jack, must be the doctor who believes that patient is better off catatonic from drugs, than living a life of delusion.

No, that patient is better off in a safe location, where they can't hurt themselves, and with support to escape their delusion.

Forum threads have their limits. In the real world, you could take Sceptimatic to a lab and carry out physical experiments that no party present, can dismiss the results of.

That would be great if there was a coherent model to test.

I'm not encouraging a delusion, and neither was House.

Yes you are, and yes he was.
You are here insulting and attacking those calling Scepti out on their BS.
You are acting like it is a different viewpoint rather than pure garbage with no chance of working in reality.

He's looking deeper into the world, beyond the superficial face of physical science.

No he isn't. He is trying to escape from the world and retreat into a fantasy.

From your perspective, he's miles away from reality, but from his perspective, it's you who are miles away from reality.

Not merely from my perspective, from an objective analysis.
What he is saying goes directly against reality.
Him thinking he is closer just further demonstrates his delusional state of mind.

My posts are always constructive, and I call people out on their bullshit

No, they aren't.
You came here to stir up shit and insult people you had a beef with.
That is not constructive at all.
What I am doing is not bullying
Scepti is the one who chose to present his delusional ideas here.
He is the one that continually refuses to defend them.
Pointing they are BS with no chance of working in reality is NOT bullying.

I have explained to you repeatedly why Sceptimatic is running rings around you blokes and laughing in your faces, and you don't want to admit it.

They are continually having their fantasy destroyed, with every post. They are not running rings around anyone.
They are just desperately laughing to cling to their delusion.

Your habit of addressing every sentence he makes, and dissecting it through the lens of science - how constructive has that been? From a certain viewpoint, you've been very insulting and intolerant.

Sure, just like homosexuals are being intolerant of the Catholic church and WBC's opposition to homosexuality; and black people were intollerant to the KKK wanting to kill black people, and so on.

I am intolerant of BS. That is not bullying, nor it is insulting.

How do you want this debate with Sceptimatic to end?

I would hesistate to call it a debate, as that would require scepti to actually address the points made.
As for how it should end, with scepti actually addressing the points and defending their model, rather than just repeating the same refuted BS or vague non-answers; or scepti admitting their model doesn't work.

Expansion and compression into a structure that holds the broken down molecules and not allowing more dense molecules to enter easily which creates a massive resistance of compressive force.

Which explains NOTHING about how it magically holds it shape.

You need a pulling force for that.
Just like in my analogy; which you seem to have entirely ignored.
I wonder why?

Denseness of molecular make-up.

We have been over this. If that was the case, nitrogen would be a liquid at room temperature.
Denseness of molecular make-up clearly is NOT the answer.

It's called layering along the horizontal and stacking to the vertical.
This means each stacked layer going up is less dense than the one below.
Horizontally they basically cancel each other out in near equalibrium and will continue to do so until there is an interruption within the layers of a stack that offers unequal balance.

This is just repeating the observation. It is not explaining WHY.
What magic causes the bottom layer to be most dense?
Why isn't it each stacked layer down is less dense than the one above?
Why isn't it each stacked layer to the right is less dense than the one to the left?
Why isn't it each stacked layer is the same density as the one below?

You have no explanation at all.
Yet gravity explains it trivially.

The donkey told the tiger, “The grass is blue.”

The tiger replied, “No, the grass is green.”

The discussion became heated, and the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration, so they approached the lion.

As they approached the lion on his throne, the donkey started screaming: ′′Your Highness, isn’t it true that the grass is blue?”

The lion replied: “If you believe it is true, the grass is blue.”

The donkey rushed forward and continued: ′′The tiger disagrees with me, contradicts me and annoys me. Please punish him.”

The king then declared: ′′The tiger will be punished with 3 days of silence.”

The donkey jumped with joy and went on his way, content and repeating ′′The grass is blue, the grass is blue…”

The tiger asked the lion, “Your Majesty, why have you punished me, after all, the grass is green?”





The lion replied, ′′You’ve known and seen the grass is green.”

The tiger asked, ′′So why do you punish me?”

The lion replied, “That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with an ass, and on top of that, you came and bothered me with that question just to validate something you already knew was true!”

Vibrational frequencies or basically creating heat by pressure/compression and breaking down molecules into hydrogen and super compressing it as an instance.

Thought about this a little more.

The real world observation that a little electrical potential liberates a few already existing electrons in elements that are good conductors such a copper to get them flowing.

Which produces this.

By the way.  These are electrons arcing across the gap of the metal.




Vs from a person that doesn’t believe in nuclear power thinks hydrogen is produced from thin air because you can’t prove any amount of molecules are reduced to make hydrogen.  And that the igniter on my stove is a hydrogen generator that doesn’t explain how hydrogen migrates hundreds of miles through copper wires that can be used to make gas tight containers. 


By the way.  Electronics are also a form of radiation called beta radiation.  The closest thing to your hydrogen is alpha radiation.  A particle of two protons and two neutrons stripped of electrons. 

So.  In the den pressure delusion, how do solar panels make electricity? 

If you think something is being broken down, write the reaction equation.  What is being consumed to produce what?  Do the same for copper wiring.  Or semiconductors.  Microchips. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 25, 2023, 11:35:39 PM

Because for mass to expand it has to be broken down.

What is being broken down?

Molecules.

  The atmosphere is a mixture of O2, N2, CO2, and Argon with other trace gases.

What do you mean, other trace gases?
What do you mean by trace?
Explain them in terms of molecular makeup within the other gases and how they are.
Are they just floating about in free space between the other gases in the story or what?

When I release air at 3000 psi from a scuba tank through a regulator to one atmosphere for breathing the percentages of O2, N2, CO2, argon, and trace gases doesn’t change.

It's already been changed to be what it is in the tank.

For welding and a bottle of Argon at 3000 pounds regulated down to about one pound of pressure and rehearsed to shield the weld stays argon.  The gas isn’t broken down to anything.

The gas is already broken down to be in the bottle.

What do you mean by broken down.

You're arguing with me about nothing being broken down and then you ask this.

Pay attention and look back.
And you call me stupid.

And you claim there is no attraction in your delusion.  So if there is no “attraction” what is there to be broken to be broken down.

Molecules.
Remember the gobstopper and peeling and layering and how the peeling works to change molecular behaviour?
Pay attention.

An “attraction” like a hydrogen bond in water or double covalent bond for the formation of diatomic oxygen (O2) must be made before they can be separated.

Think about what's been said.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 25, 2023, 11:35:39 PM

Everything is mass. Mass is everything whether it's at the lowest end of a makeup or the highest end of the density of those masses.

That means mass must have an infinite presence to be everywhere at once.  Which makes no sense.

Every molecule has a dense mass for it to be a molecule.
Every molecule is attached to a molecule in so many ways with the layering of the highly dense and the layering of the less dense from bottom to top.
No free space.#
All molecules are attached throughout in some configuration.
I'll tell you what makes no sense and that is, free space.

And still doesn’t explain why a feather falls faster and faster as atmosphere is increasingly reduced bellow atmospheric pressure.

Again….  In den pressure delusion where “Everything is mass” the mass of the feather and the mass of the atmosphere must occupy the same space at the same instance for the feather to fall…

No molecule or molecular layer can occupy the same space at the same time. It can occupy close to but never the exact same space.
The issue you may have here is in your mindset on what you deem as the same space.
To make it blunt. If you and I are in a room we both occupy that room but we are never in the same space together in that room.
If a sink bubble is among millions of sink bubbles in a sink it occupies the sink but not the exact same space as every other bubble.
If we both got into a pantomime horse and galloped about we would occupy a part of that material but we would not be in the exact same space.

Understand denpressure and molecules and you'll have something to bite on.

If all space is occupied by mass at all times?  How would gases mix to achieve the correct ratio to burn?

By peeling and attaching, depending on what's being mixed.

In den pressure  if mass occupies all space all the time, why doesn’t everything act like a solid table top?

Because all molecular mass is not the same.
The gobstopper analogy and the peeling should offer you some crude insight but you choose to simply overlook everything because you seem afraid to put aside your ideals for the moment to understand anything.

Considering how much you love analogies, consider this:
You have a large hall, and in that hall you have a large collection of people. Each person is attached to the 6 surrounding people by ropes (i.e. attractive, pulling forces; in reality it should be springs as it is a combination of attractive and repulsive forces which keeps drives them towards a particular distance), which hold them in place.

Ok, in denpressure those people would be all pushed together and even conjoined (key thought).

For the solid, they cannot break these ropes or undo them or anything like that.
That means they keep the same neighbours.
This means you can have it distort slightly, but it is not free to flow.

If all the people are similar you have all of them compressed against each other and so many conjoined to offer a room of dense mass among much less dense mass within that room in between those people.

If you have a wall dividing the hall, with a simple door through it, which only 3 people wide fit through, but your collection of people is 30 wide, there is no way for them to go through.

This is akin to offering one large dense mass and an area that dense mass cannot be broken down to fit into.
To do so would mean breaking down the wall to make it all become a part of the same dense mass makeup.

Now to switch it to a liquid, in this state, they can have up to 2 ropes disconnected. Now when they approach the door, the ones that can go through can unlink some ropes, those around them can then unlink some of their ropes and relink on the other side.

In denpressure the unlinking would be peeling and detaching and being squeezed into a less dense environment with all space taken up at all times.

This partial breakage and reformation of bonds allows the liquid to flow and change shape. But it still holds together. They can't entirely separate.

This still comes down to peeling and the energy applied in terms of vibration under pressure to become liquid.

Now to switch to a gas, they remove all their ropes, breaking free of these attractive, pulling forces. Now, they are free to move around as they please and can fill the room. They easily pass through the door as individuals.

Gas is just a less dense attachment of molecular peeling.

To make the analogy a bit better it's like rolling an iron ball into super soft sponges. This would be like a person walking through the atmosphere.

Quote from: JackBlack on June 24, 2023, 03:13:02 PM

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 02:42:19 PM

Why wouldn't I include all the bullies in the schoolyard?

You didn't include the bullies.
If you did, you would have included yourself.

Instead you seem to be including those that call people out on their BS.

Just look at how you are acting now. Offering absolutely nothing constructive and just insulting people.
Yet you have the nerve to call others bullies.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 03:01:57 PM

Your arguments threaten to shatter his worldview which he treasures. He is trying to show you the value and beauty of his worldview devoid of what science says, and you refuse to see it.

He is trying to cling to a fantasy, and acting like this fantasy is reality.
I object to that BS.

If they were presenting it as a fantasy, as an alternative idea to reality, rather than presenting it as if it is reality, I would be more open.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 24, 2023, 03:01:57 PM

If you persist and succeed in your arguments, you risk causing a shattered person, here. Is that what you want? Is that the endgame for you?

If they are that fragile they should be in a psychiatric institution.

Right now, you are acting like House in this clip:

Is that what you want to be?
Encouraging delusions?

When I see a debate on "experiment ideas to prove denpressure", 40 thread pages long, with nobody declaring a winner, and nobody conceding defeat, there can be only one explanation - there is madness afoot.

Truck loads of madness.

I feel like House inside that asylum just by reading this thread. If I'm house, you, Jack, must be the doctor who believes that patient is better off catatonic from drugs, than living a life of delusion. Do you think Sceptimatic would be better off, catatonic, than spreading his joy of denpressure? You'd be happier, wouldn't you?

Forum threads have their limits. In the real world, you could take Sceptimatic to a lab and carry out physical experiments that no party present, can dismiss the results of. Here on a forum, you can't force anybody to carry out an experiment, or convince a person the results of an experiment they haven't seen.

I'm not encouraging a delusion, and neither was House. I'm accepting of a different viewpoint, and that's all Sceptimatic's ever asked.

He's looking deeper into the world, beyond the superficial face of physical science. Sceptimatic knows there is more to life than science offers, and is brave enough to wear his theories on his sleeve. From your perspective, he's miles away from reality, but from his perspective, it's you who are miles away from reality. He has the insight to recognise this is a patterned world.

My posts are always constructive, and I call people out on their bullshit - including internet bullying. I have explained to you repeatedly why Sceptimatic is running rings around you blokes and laughing in your faces, and you don't want to admit it.

Your habit of addressing every sentence he makes, and dissecting it through the lens of science - how constructive has that been? From a certain viewpoint, you've been very insulting and intolerant.

How do you want this debate with Sceptimatic to end?

I have to commend you on that post which is very close to the whole point.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 05:35:57 AM

Vibrational frequencies or basically creating heat by pressure/compression and breaking down molecules into hydrogen and super compressing it as an instance.

Which is completely and utter BS that has nothing to do with why AC current flowing through a copper wire will induce current flow in a nearby copper wire.

Note added.  As demonstrated why current can flow across a “gap” in  a vacuum tube. 



The more atmosphere evacuated from the tube, better its operation. 

No.
It isn't about the more atmosphere being evacuated the better the current. It has a limit and the reason for the limit is everything being attached.
There is no vacuum between those points.
It's a lower pressure within the area which is why the energy applied can create a continual arc across the gap without burning out the diode. It cuts down on pressurised agitation which would basically blow the structure open as soon as energy is applied under pressure.

Which has noting to do with why a copper wire wrapped around an iron nail creates an electromagnet with voltage applied.

Think about the coil and what's happening.
You say you create an electromagnet with voltage.
Offer me your analogy as to what's happening to offer your electromagnet.
And I don't mean getting something from the internet.
I mean offer your own analogy.

In your denpressure  of nothing attracts what is the significance of an hydrogen atom and how do they create current flow in a copper wire or solar panel. 

An induced flow, meaning broken down molecules by super agitation and frequencies compressed and pushed along a path due to extreme attempts at expansion but having a wall of pressure trying to stop the outer push to dissipate.
Think of it like pushing water through a pipe and if the pipe is porous it will throw some water in all directions but most will flow to a point.

Think of your electrical wires like this.

Why can’t a gas cylinder of hydrogen have leads hooked up to it to be used as a battery?

Because the gas is containerised and compressed and the release is explosive (massively expansive) to the atmosphere in terms of a mass push of it and no channel for it.
It isn't trapped and released into a channel as it would be through wires, not to mention it requiring attachments to the molecules initially to hold them.
This is where the gobstopper analogy comes in and the layer peeling and such.

Why doesn’t the gas cylinder of hydrogen induce current in nearby metals and wires?

It's just trapped broken down molecules.

  Why can a tank of hydrogen gas be stored in an explosive gas / dust area with no fear of the hydrogen trapped in the gas cylinder creating a static charge that would be an ignition source?

Because it's containerised and under pressure.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 05:35:57 AM

Understand how water and steam flow and you'll get a basic grasp of how molecules on a smaller scale work to produce electricity.

Funny.  Pure / distilled water is a poor conductor of electricity with there being two hydrogens to every oxygen.  Water is not considered a conductor until it’s contained with something like salt.

Which you still haven’t explained why hydrogen would bond to oxygen to form water if nothing in den pressure delusion attracts.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 05:35:57 AM

And yet you're explaining nothing.

Ac current flowing through a copper wire is created by a spinning magnet where the positive and negative poles push and pull electrons that have a negative charge to create a rising and collapsing magnetic field.  This can be represented by using an oscilloscope to “sense” the changes in electrical potential in reference to ground / zero electrical potential.  This is seen as a sine wave. Items like capacitors, diodes, and inductors can be used to change a sign wave into a square wave or to a DC current.

For AC current, electrons flow through a copper wire totally void of hydrogen. Hydrogen is a poor conductor of electricity.  The pushing and pulling of the magnetic of the generator causes the current to go from zero potential in electricity, peak at some positive value, descend to back to zero potential electricity.  Then peak to some negative value that represents that reverse flow of current from positive.  This is the sine wave of current and voltage.  In a motor or inductor the sine wave of voltage and current become 90 degrees out of phase. 

The movement AC current causes a magnetic field to build and collapse as it flows through a copper wire.  The rising and falling of a collapsing magnetic field can induce current flow in other unshielded copper wires too close.  This is not pressure dependent.  Depends on using conductors like copper, not poor conductors like hydrogen.

Electrical current is simply a flow of broken-down molecules through a channel.
The flow is dependent on the ability of the channel to not spill that flow.
the less spill the better flow.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 05:35:57 AM

It's called layering along the horizontal and stacking to the vertical.
This means each stacked layer going up is less dense than the one below.
Horizontally they basically cancel each other out in near equalibrium and will continue to do so until there is an interruption within the layers of a stack that offers unequal balance.

Which in no way explains why they layer.  I can use a cylinder and a hand plunger to push down and compress a volume of trapped atmosphere. I can create a new equilibrium with my hand with the trapped gas at higher pressure.

You can never create an equilibrium. You can always get close but never quite.

As for your plunger. All you're doing is compressing and trapping the molecules into denser molecules in less space whilst allowing the atmosphere to fill the lower pressure created by your applied energy push of that plunger.
Basically, you've pushed a few peeling layers back into the molecular makeup by making the molecules smaller and allowing a re-skin, if you like.

Nothing is broken down. I have as much O2, N2, CO2, and argon before being compressed.

Yes you do but the makeup of it has altered slightly with every compression from your energy.
 

When I remove my hand the pressure equalizes by the gas molecules moving towards the less pressure potential from higher pressure.  They move the plunger up with their flow to equalize with the lower pressure above the plunger.  The plunger returns up to its original position, the pressure in the cylinder is equalized with the pressure outside.

When you release your energy/pressure you allow the molecules to naturally decompress against the less compressed atmosphere and they will simply take up a bigger area.

What is the “plunger” that causes the atmosphere to overcome its tendency to dissipate or “decompress” and attract at sea level to bunch up and “compress.

The plunger is merely a resistance to pressure. You simply offer your energy push to that plunger just as a molecule would offer its own resistance to the molecules above while the molecules below it would be resiting it and so on.
Vertically it means no layer is ever the same density in the stacking system because there is always a molecular pressure alteration with each layering.
Imagine 1 cm of horizontal layering. It may hold 10,000 layers. That's just a wild guess to be used as nothing more than an aid into what I'm trying to get at so don't take it as factual.
You've been told.

  There is no applied force of gravity and directionality in den pressure.

I know, because gravity does not exist and denpressure repplaces the gravity bull.

Density is not a force.

Density is everything so density is always part of a force whether it's an energy push or simply a resistance to another dense mass.

  Or why would more dense air in an air compressor tank flow to less dense atmosphere when vented to atmosphere. 

Because you've applied massive energy to compressing the atmosphere into a tank and by doing this you've robber the atmosphere of the less dense makeup and compressed it into that tank.
You've changed the molecules into more dense molecules (see the above explanation).

Once you open a valve you'll allow the natural expansion of those molecules to compress back into the external stacked layering until they cannot push that stacked layering out of the way, which is when they become closer to equilibrium and under the same push-on resistance.

You really need to pay better attention.

Your atmosphere free of gravity has no force to compress it at sea level.

The force is the resistance of the molecules themselves, against each other.

  Your springy atmospheric molecules should be expanding up from foundation into less dens / less pressure atmosphere to equalized like when my hand was removed from the plunger compressing the trapped gas in the cylinder.

They do expand but only when energy is applied by pushing into them to push them into a higher layering in which they naturally start to peel their own molecular layering.
Think gobstopper analogy.

Layering is from the atmosphere being in near equilibrium with gravity, and is the force that keeps it from “decompressing” from sea level.

Gravity does not exist. It's a big con job to keep a global spinning Earth and space vacuums and planets and stars and moon...etc...etc...etc, alive and kicking in the minds of those who are schooled into it.

What keeps the atmospheric molecules from acting in the tendency to dissipate.

To dissipate molecules you have to offer a force to push a more dense mass of molecules through a less dense mass of molecules.

Gravity keeps the “compressed” molecules at sea level from “decompressing”.

Gravity does not exist.
 

If density is a “force” in denpressure  with no directionality, how would things know to fall down dropped along a cliff.  Why not drop to the Cliff face?

I have no clue why you mention no directionality when it's been explained.

Dropping something down a cliff is still dropping it through stacked layering that cliff sits within.
I don't get why you can't get your head around this.

By the way.  These are electrons arcing across the gap of the metal.

I'm sure you can explain what electrons are....right?

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 05:35:57 AM

Expansion and compression into a structure that holds the broken down molecules and not allowing more dense molecules to enter easily which creates a massive resistance of compressive force.

Which explains NOTHING about how it magically holds it shape.

You need a pulling force for that.

You can never offer a pulling force if you allow yourself to see why.
To pull means to have something come to you and from a visual point of view without looking any further it appears no issue.
However, if you actually observe what pulling forces are you will quickly notice that it takes a pushing force or a compressive force to move anything in any direction.

The donkey told the tiger, “The grass is blue.”

The tiger replied, “No, the grass is green.”

The discussion became heated, and the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration, so they approached the lion.

As they approached the lion on his throne, the donkey started screaming: ′′Your Highness, isn’t it true that the grass is blue?”

The lion replied: “If you believe it is true, the grass is blue.”

The donkey rushed forward and continued: ′′The tiger disagrees with me, contradicts me and annoys me. Please punish him.”

The king then declared: ′′The tiger will be punished with 3 days of silence.”

The donkey jumped with joy and went on his way, content and repeating ′′The grass is blue, the grass is blue…”

The tiger asked the lion, “Your Majesty, why have you punished me, after all, the grass is green?”





The lion replied, ′′You’ve known and seen the grass is green.”

The tiger asked, ′′So why do you punish me?”

The lion replied, “That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with an ass, and on top of that, you came and bothered me with that question just to validate something you already knew was true!”

Who decided the grass was green and why?

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 05:35:57 AM

Vibrational frequencies or basically creating heat by pressure/compression and breaking down molecules into hydrogen and super compressing it as an instance.

Thought about this a little more.

The real world observation that a little electrical potential liberates a few already existing electrons in elements that are good conductors such a copper to get them flowing.

Which produces this.

By the way.  These are electrons arcing across the gap of the metal.




Vs from a person that doesn’t believe in nuclear power thinks hydrogen is produced from thin air because you can’t prove any amount of molecules are reduced to make hydrogen.  And that the igniter on my stove is a hydrogen generator that doesn’t explain how hydrogen migrates hundreds of miles through copper wires that can be used to make gas tight containers. 


By the way.  Electronics are also a form of radiation called beta radiation.  The closest thing to your hydrogen is alpha radiation.  A particle of two protons and two neutrons stripped of electrons. 

So.  In the den pressure delusion, how do solar panels make electricity? 

If you think something is being broken down, write the reaction equation.  What is being consumed to produce what?  Do the same for copper wiring.  Or semiconductors.  Microchips.

All you're doing is going deeper into a rabbit hole without knowing why.
What you need to do before you go down this router is to actually start understanding denpressure in its most basic setup. You say you do but it's clear you are not even at the start and it makes me wonder.

All you're doing is going deeper into a rabbit hole without knowing why.

I’m down a rabbit hole, no.

You think this is a hydrogen generator?



It’s not.

Electron?  It’s a subatomic particle with a negative charge part of the reason electrical current, lightning, static electricity, AC Current, DC current, beta (electron) radiation exists.  It’s the reason diatomic oxygen exists in the atmosphere.  Electrons are the reason computers and the tiny structures of CPU’s, Resisters, diodes, transistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers, vacuum tubes work.

Electricity is just using changes in electric potential to flow already existing electrons.

Not some magical creation of hydrogen out of thin air.  Where hydrogen being large and having protons and neutrons would not pass / utilize semiconductors correctly.  In all ranges of pressures and temperatures.  So elections are fixed sized.  Not your delusional expanding hydrogen taking up all space with mass at all times. 


With you having no explanation in den pressure delusion why inducing current flow in a wire wrapped around a nail makes an electromagnet.

In your delusion why can you check voltage and current flow with multimeters and amp clamps?  If it was generating hydrogen like your delusion claims? Why not use a gas spectrometer?

If electrical potentials and currents make a CPU work, how would that be done in the DPD with hydrogen?

How is it no matter the material from copper wires to the silicon in CPU chips in your delusion hydrogen is generated?  Material often tight against gas flow.

Wire the formula in your delusion of silicon being converted to hydrogen?  And why are the tiny silicon structures of an CPU not depleted.  And why a modern CPU  with its tiny gates can work reliably in your delusion year after year.  I have an IPAD working great after 10 years. 

All you're doing is going deeper into a rabbit hole without knowing why.

Me.  Let’s do a thought exercise with your delusion.

If there was only one molecule in all of existence.  Just one hydrogen atom?  Your delusion already contradicted itself.  There are atoms to build molecules.

Note.  Added.  Do atoms like argon expand?  Or just molecules?  What are den pressure delusion molecules made of?  And what composition would give them their properties?  Like noble gasses that can exist as single atoms vs oxygen that tries to exist as O2?  Why copper is a great conductor vs why sulfur and hydrogen are poor conductors. 

Why gold doesn’t react with normal fresh water, but sodium is highly reactive with water.

In what way and in what form does sodium react with water?

Elementary sodium reacts strongly with water, according to the following reaction mechanism:

2Na(s) + 2H2O → 2NaOH(aq) + H2(g)



Read more: https://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/sodium/sodium-and-water.htm#ixzz85rrl1DFq

Just only one atom of hydrogen with nothing else existing in all the space of the universe.  That one atom would expand infinitely to create infinite mass to fill all the universe?  Or would it “break down” to complete nothingness? 

Ok, in denpressure those people would be all pushed together and even conjoined (key thought).

Conjoined would just be replacing the rope. It would still be an attractive force holding them together.

If all the people are similar you have all of them compressed against each other and so many conjoined to offer a room of dense mass among much less dense mass within that room in between those people.

i.e. you have them helded together with some kind of attractive, pulling force, preventing them from separating.

This is akin to offering one large dense mass and an area that dense mass cannot be broken down to fit into.
To do so would mean breaking down the wall to make it all become a part of the same dense mass makeup.

No, to do so would mean they slide past each other, just like a liquid does.
With no attractive force to hold them to each other, there is nothing to stop them.

Why can't an individual go through the door? What magic is stopping them?

In denpressure the unlinking would be peeling and detaching and being squeezed into a less dense environment with all space taken up at all times.

In denpressure, there should be no linking at all.
And that also means no peeling and detaching, as again, that relies upon attraction.

You are continually appealing to attraction and trying to hide it.

To make the analogy a bit better it's like rolling an iron ball into super soft sponges. This would be like a person walking through the atmosphere.

No, lets stick to what it is.
But take away the attractive forces.
So you now have a bunch of people easily passing through the door. You have no ability to have a solid, or a liquid.
That is your denpressure failing to describe reality.

You can never offer a pulling force if you allow yourself to see why.

I can, quite easily, and reality demands it.
You have no justification for why it can't exist. You just hate it because gravity is an attractive force.

However, if you actually observe what pulling forces are you will quickly notice that it takes a pushing force or a compressive force to move anything in any direction.

You have repeated this lie countless times.
You can be incredibly dishonest and look for any tiny pushing force, and then lie to everyone by claiming it means it is all push.
But that is just a pathetic lie.

If instead you look honestly, you need a pulling force.
There is no way out of it.

We have been over this repeatedly.
Remember the link in the chain?
How does the force get transmitted to the left?
By a PULLING force.

Again, here is what happens without it:

Remember the gobstopper and peeling and layering and how the peeling works to change molecular behaviour?

Remember how you can't explain what keeps your layers of molecules attracted to each other to hold together in the gobstopper?
Pay attention.

Every molecule is attached to a molecule

Attached, as in an attractive force, or merely touching?
There is a very big difference.

I'll tell you what makes no sense and that is, free space.

How about instead of just repeating the same pathetic assertions, you try explaining it.

Why doesn't it makes sense?

The gobstopper analogy and the peeling should offer you some crude insight

It offers none, because it explains nothing.
You have no reason for why some things are solid, some are liquid and some are gas.
There is no reason without attractive forces.

41 pages.  And no stated experiment where one can personally witness den pressure delusion.

Where a hand plunger can be used to compress gas in a vertical cylinder straight down, and have the plunger rise to lower pressure once the force of the hand is gone.

But no explanation from den pressure delusion where springy and “compressed” gas molecules are over come by a force to stop their natural tendency to dissipate, but bunch up sea level. 

The hand plunger is as allowed to rise up.  Why in the no gravity directionality of den pressure delusion are the “compressed” gas molecules no allowed to “decompress” by the less dense and pressure above?  The hand plunger shows “decompression” is “allowed” in den pressure delusion.


I say the hand plunger shows the atmosphere is in equilibrium with the gravity.  Push down on the hand plunger compressing the gas in the vertical cylinder, the trapped atmosphere builds pressure.  Remove the hand, the plunger is pushed up by the high pressure equalizing with the lower pressure above the plunger.  The hand plunger doesn’t continue to rise to increasing lower pressure and density of the upper atmosphere because the trapped gas pressure pushing up becomes in equilibrium with the force of gravity pulling down on the plunger.

Use a pump to evacuate the atmosphere under the hand plunger, the plunger moves down.  How is this possible in den pressure delusion if all space under the plunger is filled at all times with mass?  What if the vacuum pump is so good only one molecule of O2 is left?  How much can one molecule expand in DPD to fill all space with mass at all times?  How does it maintain the properties of O2.  Is it expanded to the point it is broken down, thinned out into nonexistent? 

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

When I see a debate on "experiment ideas to prove denpressure", 40 thread pages long, with nobody declaring a winner, and nobody conceding defeat, there can be only one explanation - there is madness afoot.

Boldly declaring a winner serves no purpose. And all you are doing is fuelling the madness, defending the madness.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

I feel like House inside that asylum just by reading this thread. If I'm house, you, Jack, must be the doctor who believes that patient is better off catatonic from drugs, than living a life of delusion.

No, that patient is better off in a safe location, where they can't hurt themselves, and with support to escape their delusion.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

Forum threads have their limits. In the real world, you could take Sceptimatic to a lab and carry out physical experiments that no party present, can dismiss the results of.

That would be great if there was a coherent model to test.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

I'm not encouraging a delusion, and neither was House.

Yes you are, and yes he was.
You are here insulting and attacking those calling Scepti out on their BS.
You are acting like it is a different viewpoint rather than pure garbage with no chance of working in reality.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

He's looking deeper into the world, beyond the superficial face of physical science.

No he isn't. He is trying to escape from the world and retreat into a fantasy.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

From your perspective, he's miles away from reality, but from his perspective, it's you who are miles away from reality.

Not merely from my perspective, from an objective analysis.
What he is saying goes directly against reality.
Him thinking he is closer just further demonstrates his delusional state of mind.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

My posts are always constructive, and I call people out on their bullshit

No, they aren't.
You came here to stir up shit and insult people you had a beef with.
That is not constructive at all.
What I am doing is not bullying
Scepti is the one who chose to present his delusional ideas here.
He is the one that continually refuses to defend them.
Pointing they are BS with no chance of working in reality is NOT bullying.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

I have explained to you repeatedly why Sceptimatic is running rings around you blokes and laughing in your faces, and you don't want to admit it.

They are continually having their fantasy destroyed, with every post. They are not running rings around anyone.
They are just desperately laughing to cling to their delusion.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

Your habit of addressing every sentence he makes, and dissecting it through the lens of science - how constructive has that been? From a certain viewpoint, you've been very insulting and intolerant.

Sure, just like homosexuals are being intolerant of the Catholic church and WBC's opposition to homosexuality; and black people were intollerant to the KKK wanting to kill black people, and so on.

I am intolerant of BS. That is not bullying, nor it is insulting.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 26, 2023, 05:21:58 AM

How do you want this debate with Sceptimatic to end?

I would hesistate to call it a debate, as that would require scepti to actually address the points made.
As for how it should end, with scepti actually addressing the points and defending their model, rather than just repeating the same refuted BS or vague non-answers; or scepti admitting their model doesn't work.

Sceptimatic is never going to address all the points or admit his model doesn't work. So, where does that leave you?

I'll tell you where.

It leaves you in your lounge room furiously building a scientific model of the flat Earth, only now, with denpressure! (Here's your big chance to put all that scientific know-how to to practical good use!) I was going to suggest including Turbonium's breathing tectonic plates for the waves, but let's keep it super simple.

Remember, all the shapes of the continents and oceans on your model, have to be accurately true to scale, with the sun and moon also to scale and the correct flat earth scale distance above the flat earth.

Additionally, your model has to be free from the effects of gravity. Remember, gravity doesn't exist when it comes to denpressure.

With your model, feel free to cteate a pressurised dome or cell wall, and color the air inside in layers, and use actual water in the oceans to enhance the realism.

I think I speak for everybody when I say, we're looking forward to seeing what you come up with! 

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 10:57:04 PM

All you're doing is going deeper into a rabbit hole without knowing why.

Me.  Let’s do a thought exercise with your delusion.

If there was only one molecule in all of existence.  Just one hydrogen atom?  Your delusion already contradicted itself.  There are atoms to build molecules.

I never said there was only one molecule so why you're beating this path is beyond me.
Pay attention.

I said one molecule is all any molecule is, meaning all molecules are just a variation of one molecule when the configuration is stripped down to the basic.
I'm sure you'll just be more confused but that's ok.

It's about paying attention and with you using the internet to back up what you think your argument is, instead of using your mind, it's always going to be difficult.

Note.  Added.  Do atoms like argon expand?
 Or just molecules?

All molecules expand and contract depending on the pressures and vibrations and frequencies applied to them.

  What are denpressure molecules made of?

Molecular layers, meaning molecules in different configurations so vast we couldn't possibly count.

And what composition would give them their properties?

Layering, pressures with vibrational peelings, and frequencies.

It's just a case of engaging your deeper thought patterns.

Like noble gasses that can exist as single atoms vs oxygen that tries to exist as O2?  Why copper is a great conductor vs why sulfur and hydrogen are poor conductors.

Nothing can exist as a single atom.
There can never ever be a detachment of molecules to have one lone molecule or atom if you prefer it.

 

Why gold doesn’t react with normal fresh water, but sodium is highly reactive with water.

Quote

In what way and in what form does sodium react with water?

Elementary sodium reacts strongly with water, according to the following reaction mechanism:

2Na(s) + 2H2O → 2NaOH(aq) + H2(g)



Read more: https://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/sodium/sodium-and-water.htm#ixzz85rrl1DFq

When you start to understand the concept of the analogy of the gobstopper only then will you start to get it.

Just only one atom of hydrogen with nothing else existing in all the space of the universe.
That one atom would expand infinitely to create infinite mass to fill all the universe?  Or would it “break down” to complete nothingness?

It doesn't work like that but you've just thrown up a conundrum over the course of all molecules in all matter in all of a molecular set of molecules.

Confused?

Of course, you are.
My Earth is a cell. If you want you could call that one dense molecule holding molecules, holding molecules, holding molecules.
Just one cell among, to our minds, infinite attached throughout the expanse of what is outside of our very own cocoon if you like.

A rabbit hole indeed.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 09:26:43 PM

Ok, in denpressure those people would be all pushed together and even conjoined (key thought).

Conjoined would just be replacing the rope. It would still be an attractive force holding them together.

Understand what conjoined is and you'll understand my reasoning. You choose not to because you are hell-bent on ensuring nothing goes against your mainstream ideals.
Understand the peeling of molecules and you'll understand conjoined and how the peeling works and also understand why expansion works with molecules.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 09:26:43 PM

If all the people are similar you have all of them compressed against each other and so many conjoined to offer a room of dense mass among much less dense mass within that room in between those people.

i.e. you have them held together with some kind of attractive, pulling force, preventing them from separating.

You can't even explain what attractive force it is or pulling force so why you're you offering it?
Compressive force is simple and decompression from that is also simple.
It creates exactly what you're arguing for only it takes away the fiction of attraction and pull and replaces it with decompression/expansion from compression.

Use your brain.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 09:26:43 PM

This is akin to offering one large dense mass and an area that dense mass cannot be broken down to fit into.
To do so would mean breaking down the wall to make it all become a part of the same dense mass makeup.

No, to do so would mean they slide past each other, just like a liquid does.
With no attractive force to hold them to each other, there is nothing to stop them.

Then you're talking simple dense mass displacement, not conjoining.

Why can't an individual go through the door? What magic is stopping them?

If the door is closed then that dense mass stops it.
If it's open then dense mass displacement can happen, meaning a dense mass moving through less resistance to it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 09:26:43 PM

In denpressure the unlinking would be peeling and detaching and being squeezed into a less dense environment with all space taken up at all times.

In denpressure, there should be no linking at all.
And that also means no peeling and detaching, as again, that relies upon attraction.

In denpressure the linking is basically conjoined if you put your mind to work and it's done by pressure by vibrations and frequencies leading to decompression of compressed molecules.

You are continually appealing to attraction and trying to hide it.

No. You are appealing to attraction and have no clue what it is and how it can work.
I'm showing you why attraction/pull cannot work and has no basis to work with molecular pressures.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 09:26:43 PM

To make the analogy a bit better it's like rolling an iron ball into super soft sponges. This would be like a person walking through the atmosphere.

No, lets stick to what it is.
But take away the attractive forces.
So you now have a bunch of people easily passing through the door. You have no ability to have a solid, or a liquid.
That is your denpressure failing to describe reality.

As I said earlier in the thread. What constitutes a solid or a liquid/fluid and a gas?
Where does one start and one end?


You can argue gold or lead or whatever solid you think.
You can argue syrup or water or anything like that for liquid.
You can argue hydrogen or helium or methane or atmosphere as your gas.

To our simple perceivest of vision, we can segregate the densities into solids, liquids/fluids, and gases on the face of it.
But what is down to the molecular makeup when we determine when something starts at a solid and stops and starts at a liquid and stops and starts at a gas and stops?

Let's use gold.
When is gold a solid but when is gold a liquid?
When is water a liquid and when is it a solid?
When is gas a solid?

Not easy to answer as to why with a lot but when your mind is taken down to a level you can use it to understand that everything has porosity and that means something will always feed into that.

Think about it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 26, 2023, 10:51:44 PM

You can never offer a pulling force if you allow yourself to see why.

I can, quite easily, and reality demands it.
You have no justification for why it can't exist. You just hate it because gravity is an attractive force.

I already gave you my reasoning. Pay attention to what#'s said and lower your hate shield.