Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

Sigh.

Which in no way addresses how den pressure delusion fails.

I don't recognise it.
Maybe alter your wording.

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 19, 2023, 08:12:11 AM

i know what when i put a pebble in an air tight glass jar, pull the jar under water, the pebble sits at the bottom of the jar.

the very same air that supposedly pushes things down, air tight being air is not coming in or out.
and in water, no longer connected to "the foundation".

your entire premise of air, foundation, and connection has no coherent explanation.

First of all your glass jar is still full of atmosphere. It is still stacked atmosphere.
Any dense mass placed into that jar will naturally displace that atmosphere and compress it and that atmosphere will compress right back by what the dense mass of the object displaces of it minus the natural porous volume of the dense mass.

The foundation for the object becomes the jar and the foundation for the jar becomes the water which will crush the jar upwards against the external atmosphere trying to crush it downwards. The denser wins and that's the water because it cannot be displaced by the entirety of the jar unless applied force is added to it, or basically you pushing that jar under the water.


This is why you can gauge the displacement of that jar by applying energy against the natural displacement of the jar itself.

so now atmostphere has memory
if i take it out
put it in a sealed container
move it underwater
it will still know how much to push that pebble "down".

I don't recognise it.
Maybe alter your wording.

Sigh again. 

You’re down to blatant disregard for reality.


The answer is right in your face.



Zero evidence items are pushed down by pressure.

Every indication items are pulled downward by gravity through the air from drag to the wake of the falling ball.


Sad you are down to playing the fool.  You’re just posting complete crap hoping people stop shitting all over your delusion with proven and repeatable science.  And go away.

37 pages of you bitching and whining.  And your only goal is to derail the thread.  What’s your document experience through an experiment that can be repeated to prove your delusion?

When I can post a simple little video of a failing ball being pulled through the air by gravity.  Not pushed by your delusion.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 19, 2023, 10:29:49 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 19, 2023, 08:12:11 AM

i know what when i put a pebble in an air tight glass jar, pull the jar under water, the pebble sits at the bottom of the jar.

the very same air that supposedly pushes things down, air tight being air is not coming in or out.
and in water, no longer connected to "the foundation".

your entire premise of air, foundation, and connection has no coherent explanation.

First of all your glass jar is still full of atmosphere. It is still stacked atmosphere.
Any dense mass placed into that jar will naturally displace that atmosphere and compress it and that atmosphere will compress right back by what the dense mass of the object displaces of it minus the natural porous volume of the dense mass.

The foundation for the object becomes the jar and the foundation for the jar becomes the water which will crush the jar upwards against the external atmosphere trying to crush it downwards. The denser wins and that's the water because it cannot be displaced by the entirety of the jar unless applied force is added to it, or basically you pushing that jar under the water.


This is why you can gauge the displacement of that jar by applying energy against the natural displacement of the jar itself.

so now atmostphere has memory
if i take it out
put it in a sealed container
move it underwater
it will still know how much to push that pebble "down".

can one of the msarter guys confirm

a jar with a rock under water

the rock has a scale under it
the jar has a scale under it.

will the jar weigh the same underwater vs above water?
will moving the jar from water-outofwater change the scale weight of the rock?

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 19, 2023, 10:29:49 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 19, 2023, 08:12:11 AM

i know what when i put a pebble in an air tight glass jar, pull the jar under water, the pebble sits at the bottom of the jar.

the very same air that supposedly pushes things down, air tight being air is not coming in or out.
and in water, no longer connected to "the foundation".

your entire premise of air, foundation, and connection has no coherent explanation.

First of all your glass jar is still full of atmosphere. It is still stacked atmosphere.
Any dense mass placed into that jar will naturally displace that atmosphere and compress it and that atmosphere will compress right back by what the dense mass of the object displaces of it minus the natural porous volume of the dense mass.

The foundation for the object becomes the jar and the foundation for the jar becomes the water which will crush the jar upwards against the external atmosphere trying to crush it downwards. The denser wins and that's the water because it cannot be displaced by the entirety of the jar unless applied force is added to it, or basically you pushing that jar under the water.


This is why you can gauge the displacement of that jar by applying energy against the natural displacement of the jar itself.

so now atmostphere has memory
if i take it out
put it in a sealed container
move it underwater
it will still know how much to push that pebble "down".

It only pushes back against the pebble because the pebble displaces the atmosphere it is within.

No matter what you do in terms of being on land or at sea you will always be under a stacking system that is greater as the decline goes.

Just put your mind into it instead of thinking atmosphere has memory.

Zero evidence items are pushed down by pressure.

Plenty of evidence but none that you are willing to look at. Instead, you would rather offer up gravity for things falling without having any idea at all as to how it works.
Funny that.

Every indication items are pulled downward by gravity through the air from drag to the wake of the falling ball.

You still can't explain what a wake is, can you?

Sad you are down to playing the fool.  You’re just posting complete crap hoping people stop shitting all over your delusion with proven and repeatable science.  And go away.

Playing the fool?
I was under the impression I was always the fool to you and people like you so why re you moaning about it now?

37 pages of you bitching and whining.  And your only goal is to derail the thread.  What’s your document experience through an experiment that can be repeated to prove your delusion?

I think you're doing a lot of projecting here but it's ok.
You have the ability to stop engaging with me. Try it.

When I can post a simple little video of a failing ball being pulled through the air by gravity.  Not pushed by your delusion.

You can put up any video of a falling ball and not once can you prove it to be gravity.
Your issue is in thinking if you follow the masses it somehow has to be fact against anything offered as a minority view.

Not in my book you don't.

Quote from: Mikey T. on June 20, 2023, 03:47:50 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 19, 2023, 11:56:37 PM

Quote from: Mikey T. on June 19, 2023, 10:55:50 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 19, 2023, 07:25:55 AM

Quote from: Mikey T. on June 19, 2023, 03:53:32 AM

I've told you a many times now, I know all your claims on denpressure.

You have no clue about denpressure.

You're right, I know everything you have said about it.   
How bout that link to where you described the mechanisms? 
How about answering it here?  Where you are being asked about it? 
No?
That's right, you blame everyone asking questions.  They choose not to understand.  They shouldn't question you.  They should just accept what you are saying as gospel.   Questions are from the nonbelievers.

But back to your statement.  I know EVERYTHING you have ever said about the subject on these forums.  Which amounts to nothing consequential.

When you offer something and actually know what you're offering and have the ability to be serious enough to want to understand denpressure explanations without the shield up and the attempts at ridicule and nastiness then get back to me and I'll be happy to deal with you.
But remember, do it for you, and don't chain yourself to groups for backslaps because you'll just end up back to square one and back to the usual carry-on that you do, which is fine by me but a waste of your energy, even if you don't see it that way..

So you still have no intention to back up your claims then.  You can keep up the stupid deflections all you want.  Clearly you have no way to defend denpressure.  I ask for you to explain, link to where you supposedly explained previously, you play this conman game, just squirming around. 
But it's good for naive people to see, so they don't fall for your BS.

Get back to me when you have something to add.

We have been asking you to explain things so we discuss it for literally years now.  This thread being one of the more recent examples of your complete inability to do so.  You make claims as if they are definitive, yet you refuse to back up any of those claims.  If you simply added the words "I think" to the beginning of those claims you would at least have one less person hounding you.  But you don't, so you get asked to offer explanation to those claims and you don't.  It isn't me who needs to add something, it is you.  But I am happy to manipulate you into destroying your credibility further.

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 20, 2023, 08:17:17 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 19, 2023, 10:29:49 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 19, 2023, 08:12:11 AM

i know what when i put a pebble in an air tight glass jar, pull the jar under water, the pebble sits at the bottom of the jar.

the very same air that supposedly pushes things down, air tight being air is not coming in or out.
and in water, no longer connected to "the foundation".

your entire premise of air, foundation, and connection has no coherent explanation.

First of all your glass jar is still full of atmosphere. It is still stacked atmosphere.
Any dense mass placed into that jar will naturally displace that atmosphere and compress it and that atmosphere will compress right back by what the dense mass of the object displaces of it minus the natural porous volume of the dense mass.

The foundation for the object becomes the jar and the foundation for the jar becomes the water which will crush the jar upwards against the external atmosphere trying to crush it downwards. The denser wins and that's the water because it cannot be displaced by the entirety of the jar unless applied force is added to it, or basically you pushing that jar under the water.


This is why you can gauge the displacement of that jar by applying energy against the natural displacement of the jar itself.

so now atmostphere has memory
if i take it out
put it in a sealed container
move it underwater
it will still know how much to push that pebble "down".

It only pushes back against the pebble because the pebble displaces the atmosphere it is within.

No matter what you do in terms of being on land or at sea you will always be under a stacking system that is greater as the decline goes.

Just put your mind into it instead of thinking atmosphere has memory.

nonsense

if some amount of the air is removed from the jar the pebble doesn't get lighter.

Plenty of evidence but none that you are willing to look at.

But you can’t provide one experiment.

While one by one real life experiments have been provided.


A feather falls faster as pressure is reduced below atmospheric pressure.  Contradicts “pressure” is the prime mover of down.  Without you providing a coherent argument why pressure from lower pressure to higher pressure in more resistance would be down.  Unless you invoke gravity.

You can’t predict how much faster a steel ball twenty times more dense than a ping pong ball should drop in den pressure delusion.

When dropped.  A steel ball and a ping pong ball drop at the same rate.

You still can't explain what a wake is, can you?

You’re about worthless. A blatant  false argument by you.

Cite and link where you asked me to define wake and I didn’t answer.

I did a search, and couldn’t find anything to back up your claim.







Wake.  As in;

The same area of drag behind the ball that if you actually watch the video is the visible low pressure turbulence left swirling behind the ball that shows in no way the ball is pushed down by air. But pulled down through the air by gravity.

My argument has not changed.  And has been literally made visible for some time.

Let me know when you have something to offer instead of nastiness.

You continue to confuse clear demonstrations that your claims are BS as nastiness.
Perhaps you should leave, and let us know when you have something other than insults and deflection?

Again, what magic causes the atmosphere to stack?

It only pushes back against the pebble because the pebble displaces the atmosphere it is within.

And due to the pressure gradient, it should be pushing the pebble up.

Why does the air magically defy this pressure gradient to push down?

No matter what you do in terms of being on land or at sea you will always be under a stacking system that is greater as the decline goes.

Due to gravity. As you have no explanation for the stacking.

Plenty of evidence but none that you are willing to look at.

No. There is no evidence at all.
If it was going to be based upon pressure, then the greater pressure below should push up.
We can see this in cases where the pressure is genuinely pushing, where it pushes from high pressure to low pressure.
You even admitted that low pressure cannot overcome high pressure.

This means that the fact things fall towards higher pressure is direct evidence that it is NOT the pressure pushing things down.

Likewise, if it was pressure we would expect the force to diminish with reducing the pressure. So if we put things in a vacuum chamber we would expect them to fall less.
But we don't. Instead, the reduction in air resistance shows the air is mainly resisting motion for most objects.

So there is plenty of evidence that shows you are wrong, and none to support your claim.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on June 20, 2023, 04:14:52 AM

When I first joined this forum, I had acute PTSD from a nasty death I went to. One of the first members on thus site I met, was RABINOZ. It turned out, he only lived a couple of hours from me, in Brisbane. I had planned to meet him in person, but life got in the way, and then it was suddenly too late. He was gone.

The nature of life does deal us all bad hands, unfortunately.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

The reason I think you and Turbonium know each other in the real world, is you are both part of a minority group.

Do you know where Turbonium lives and where I live?
It's a big Earth and big places all over Earth.
This is a small forum.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Flat Earth thinking and theorizing, is a minority group.

As far as you know.
Maybe what you should say is, flat Earth theorising in froont of physical audiences are in a minority.
Flat Earth theorising and thinking without the use of an audience may not be as much a minority as you think. It may be down to each individual unwilling to go any further than thinking and theorising on their own terms.

I'd guess you are doing it but whether you admit that is down to whether you feel you can. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I think it would be highly unlikely if you didn't know Turbonium outside in the real world. In fact, it would be sad if you didn't.

I'm not even sure how you come to this conclusion.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You see, I actually despise the scientific theories of multiple universes and time travel. With the exception of back to the future, (which I took away as being Marty's entertaining dream) I hate all time travel movies and shows, and will not watch tv shows or movies exploring multiple universe themes. From my perspective, there is one past and there is one future, with us in the middle being the present moment at any one time.

I love time travel movies, especially the Back to the Future movies.
There's nothing wrong with theorising what seems to be impossible as long as you don't offer them as factual.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

But, I digress, I've gone off-topic. While it's true, we can be anything we want on here, on a forum, that's only so far as whoever believes I am what I say I am. However, I can't just be anything I want, in the real world. In the real world, I am one person.

You can be anything you want to be in the outside world to people who don't know you. Many people do it.
It's just easier to be someone you're not on a forum and gullible people may swallow it up to such an extent as to impact their lives. Many people take internet forums with a pinch of salt but there's a good portion that believe almost anything.
 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

It would be ridiculously easy for me to prove to you who I am in the real world, but who we are, does not change the fact we are willing participants on a forum, where words are paramount.

Of course it could potentially be easy for you to prove who you are as long as you could afford the air fare and the time to be scrutinised. Otherwise not as easy as you say.

The reason I say you've met Turbonium, is you're both English speaking, and invested in this topic over many years, during which there have been flat earth conventions.

The globe believers on this forum outnumber the flat earthers, which leaves not that many true die hard in it for the long haul flat earthers. Flat Earth is your tribe. Flat Earth is Turbonium's tribe. If you had a choice between private messaging me or Turbonium, you'd message Turbonium. Why? Because he's more on the same wavelength as you. You both believe the Earth is flat and in many ways could be deemed outsiders ot fringe dwellers.

The only thing you need to believe about people on an internet forum, is anybody could be literally anything. Anything I say about myself could just be a cover story, same as you.

It's a bit trickier to get around FaceTime though, isn't it? It's a bit trickier if you were given my work phone number and told to ring it at a certain time to speak with a particular individual being me. Not difficult, and no need for an expensive air fare.

I was listening to Mark Sargent's podcast last week, and a caller called in and said it's like the double slit science experiment. The Earth is both flat and a globe at the same time. Maybe something you could ponder?

We have been asking you to explain things so we discuss it for literally years now.  This thread being one of the more recent examples of your complete inability to do so.  You make claims as if they are definitive, yet you refuse to back up any of those claims.

I make claims from my own hypothesis. I do not offer them out as factual. I offer them as my thoughts/theories/hypotheses.
I believe in what I say to be closer to reality than the one we're supposed to believe in by schooling.
I could be wrong in my thinking and it may be something else.
But as it stands denpressure is alive and kicking in my mindset.
What you deem it to be in yours is absolutely irrelevant to me but you're more than welcome to argue it when you actually know what you're arguing against.
Otherwise, you're just arguing for the sake of it.

  If you simply added the words "I think" to the beginning of those claims you would at least have one less person hounding you.

If you or others can't grasp that I never offer anything of my theory up as factual then that's on you lot.

But you don't, so you get asked to offer explanation to those claims and you don't.

I explain plenty but people like you not accepting it is your issue, not mine.
I'm not asking any of you to believe one word I type but if you want to argue against what I type then offer up something realistic and also understand what it is you're arguing against because many pretend they know but 99.9% can't get past the simple analogy.

  It isn't me who needs to add something, it is you.

If you want to understand my hypothesis or thinking then you need to add something.
If you want to just argue and name call then carry on but understand it offers nothing and generally just makes me smile.

  But I am happy to manipulate you into destroying your credibility further.

I don't have any credibility on here so you're basically peeing against the wind.

If you want to destroy denpressure then I suggest you do 2 things.
1. You actually try to get to know how it works.
2. You argue against it using reality as you know it physically and not on the back of written thoughts that you feel you can use as your facts.


You'll never destroy it by trying to play head games and you'll never destroy it by attempting to play backslapping among like-minded forum posters.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 20, 2023, 09:39:28 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 20, 2023, 08:17:17 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 19, 2023, 10:29:49 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 19, 2023, 08:12:11 AM

i know what when i put a pebble in an air tight glass jar, pull the jar under water, the pebble sits at the bottom of the jar.

the very same air that supposedly pushes things down, air tight being air is not coming in or out.
and in water, no longer connected to "the foundation".

your entire premise of air, foundation, and connection has no coherent explanation.

First of all your glass jar is still full of atmosphere. It is still stacked atmosphere.
Any dense mass placed into that jar will naturally displace that atmosphere and compress it and that atmosphere will compress right back by what the dense mass of the object displaces of it minus the natural porous volume of the dense mass.

The foundation for the object becomes the jar and the foundation for the jar becomes the water which will crush the jar upwards against the external atmosphere trying to crush it downwards. The denser wins and that's the water because it cannot be displaced by the entirety of the jar unless applied force is added to it, or basically you pushing that jar under the water.


This is why you can gauge the displacement of that jar by applying energy against the natural displacement of the jar itself.

so now atmostphere has memory
if i take it out
put it in a sealed container
move it underwater
it will still know how much to push that pebble "down".

It only pushes back against the pebble because the pebble displaces the atmosphere it is within.

No matter what you do in terms of being on land or at sea you will always be under a stacking system that is greater as the decline goes.

Just put your mind into it instead of thinking atmosphere has memory.

nonsense

if some amount of the air is removed from the jar the pebble doesn't get lighter.

Lighter?
The pebble still displaces atmosphere in the jar by its own dense mass minus its natural volume.

Wake.  As in;

The same area of drag behind the ball that if you actually watch the video is the visible low pressure turbulence left swirling behind the ball that shows in no way the ball is pushed down by air. But pulled down through the air by gravity.

My argument has not changed.  And has been literally made visible for some time.

You don't have an argument.
You don't know what a wake is to argue it against denpressure.

Explain why your wake goes against denpressure.
Just explain the wake in your own words and why it is happening.

The reason I say you've met Turbonium, is you're both English speaking, and invested in this topic over many years, during which there have been flat earth conventions.

Our time zones are massively different, have you looked?
But even so, if we were in the same country it doesn't mean any of us go to flat Earth conventions.
You must think England's just a small town compared to Australia by the way you go on.

The globe believers on this forum outnumber the flat earthers, which leaves not that many true die hard in it for the long haul flat earthers.

Of course globe believers outnumber alternate thinkers.
For two good reasons.
1. They are allowed to post and in being allowed to post, many of them can feel important by reciting anything and everything mainstream has to offer as their facts and it offers many people a chance to be somebody among others who feel they are safe in numbers to ridicule alternates or at least offer up ready-made answers that require little to no thinking.

2. Alternate thinkers are classed as conspiracy nut cases and alternate thinkers against a globe model are also deemed to be flat Earth tards and all the rest of the gunk that goes with those sayings, which is like the minority holding up a piece of raw steak in a majority lion's den and those lion's not thinking of just fighting over the steak but also the bigger piece holding it which will feed their frenzy.

Flat Earth is your tribe.

I don't have a tribe but I do respect alternate thinking on what Earth maybe aside from the utter gunk of it being told and sold as a spinning globe in a nonsensical space vacuum...etc.

Flat Earth is Turbonium's tribe.

I don't know Turbonium so you'll need to ask Turbonium.

If you had a choice between private messaging me or Turbonium, you'd message Turbonium.

I have no issue messaging anyone if they wanted to message me.

Why? Because he's more on the same wavelength as you.

If you mean Turbonium has alternate thoughts to the schooled ideals for the majority then yes I suppose Turbonium is on a better wavelength.

You both believe the Earth is flat and in many ways could be deemed outsiders ot fringe dwellers.

It depends on what you mean by flat.
there are so many variations of it and generally people who are globalists just lump everyone into the same boat on one specific, which is clearly not the case.

The only thing you need to believe about people on an internet forum, is anybody could be literally anything.

I've already told you this.

Anything I say about myself could just be a cover story, same as you.

I've also already told you this.

It's a bit trickier to get around FaceTime though, isn't it? It's a bit trickier if you were given my work phone number and told to ring it at a certain time to speak with a particular individual being me. Not difficult, and no need for an expensive air fare.

Facetime means nothing. It doesn't make anyone transparent. And offering up a work phone offers nothing to someone who doesn't actually know if it is a work phone or even if a person on the end is who they say they are.

I'll offer you an example of face time.
Imagine you are a man in a room. A loner who collects uniforms or something.
You could say you were a soldier or a fireman or a police officer and wear a uniform on face time.
Anyone could believe anything of you, especially if you've done your homework on how those professions work.

It's all so easy for anyone who wants to role-play.
It's much harder for someone to carry it off over time if they were physically watched.

I was listening to Mark Sargent's podcast last week, and a caller called in and said it's like the double slit science experiment. The Earth is both flat and a globe at the same time. Maybe something you could ponder?

I think Earth is a cell so I've obviously pondered a lot more than you think.

I make claims from my own hypothesis. I do not offer them out as factual. I offer them as my thoughts/theories/hypotheses.

You do offer them as factual.

Look at how many times you boldly proclaim that there can NEVER be free space, that there can NEVER be a pull, that gravity can't be real, and so on. 

You don't do that presenting it as an opinion. You present it as if it was a fact.

I explain plenty but people like you not accepting it is your issue, not mine.

No, you don't.
You continually use whatever dishoenst BS you can to deflect from trivial issues that you cannot explain.

Look at you yet again being entirely incapable of explaining why the atmosphere stacks, or how it pushes objects down and so on.

If you want to just argue and name call then carry on but understand it offers nothing and generally just makes me smile.

Which would just further indicate that you are a troll, just here to stir shit up.

If you want to destroy denpressure then I suggest you do 2 things.
1. You actually try to get to know how it works.
2. You argue against it using reality as you know it physically and not on the back of written thoughts that you feel you can use as your facts.

Like I have done repeatedly.

Of course globe believers outnumber alternate thinkers.
For two good reasons.

Yet you leave out the most obvious, and best reason: Because Earth is round and all the evidence points to this inescapable fact.
The reasons you provide are just crap.

aside from the utter gunk of it being told and sold as a spinning globe in a nonsensical space vacuum...etc.

You mean the reality that you are yet to demonstrate a single fault with.

Would you prefer cult over tribe?

I think Earth is a cell so I've obviously pondered a lot more than you think.

Considering there is nothing to support that, that is in no way evidence that you have pondered anything.

You don't have an argument.
You don't know what a wake is to argue it against denpressure.

Explain why your wake goes against denpressure.
Just explain the wake in your own words and why it is happening.

You’re just stupid at this point.

You got caught in a false argument where you claimed you asked me to “define” wake, and I can’t find where I haven’t replied in some fashion.


When in the video it’s clearly visible what the “wake” is.

The area of drag behind the moving object traveling through atmosphere.  In this case, of the ball dropping, is the low pressure area or area of swirling turbulence that shows the atmosphere isn’t pushing down on the object to move it to foundation.

The phenomenon seen of the ball dropping through the atmosphere, creating drag and the swirling wake resulting in turbulent swirl  counter to the what should be the constant and uninterrupted push down to foundation in your delusion. 

The ball has every indication of being pulled down by gravity through the atmosphere.  The swirling and turbulent wake being the opposite and equal reaction of the ball being pulled down through gravity, and having a slight high pressure area in front of the ball.


Now.  Isn’t that odd.  Some how your delusion requires low pressure to make an object go to foundation into high pressure while the object moving down is creating even higher pressure in front of it. And lower pressure and a turbulent swirling wake behind the ball in directions other than down.  When in the den pressure delusion the air needs to push constantly and uninterruptedly down. 

My little video of the dropping ball totally contradicts what should be seen for your den pressure delusion.

 You’re trying to create a false argument on something clearly seen and demonstrated in the video. Den pressure delusion that you been detected to is proven a lie in a short one or two second video. 

When a little actually knowledge about thermals indicates atmosphere doesn’t “always push down to the foundation” with any consistency.


https://aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0253.shtml
[/quote]

Your claiming DPD is based on practical observation is total BS.

When despite changes in atmospheric conditions, updrafts, thermals, changes in barometric pressure, high pressure cells, low pressure cells, when objects are acted on by a consistent downward acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2.  Something explained by the presence of a less fickle force called gravity.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 20, 2023, 10:13:57 PM

I make claims from my own hypothesis. I do not offer them out as factual. I offer them as my thoughts/theories/hypotheses.

You do offer them as factual.

Look at how many times you boldly proclaim that there can NEVER be free space, that there can NEVER be a pull, that gravity can't be real, and so on. 

You don't do that presenting it as an opinion. You present it as if it was a fact.

I present it as my opinion. I believe in what I say but that's for myself not for you or anyone else.
You cannot bring up one piece of evidence on any topic for denpressure where I offer it as fact.


If you think I present it as if it was fact then that's on you and your mindset and you're welcome to carry that on.
I know what I say.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 20, 2023, 10:22:45 PM

You don't have an argument.
You don't know what a wake is to argue it against denpressure.

Explain why your wake goes against denpressure.
Just explain the wake in your own words and why it is happening.

You’re just stupid at this point.

You got caught in a false argument where you claimed you asked me to “define” wake, and I can’t find where I haven’t replied in some fashion.


When in the video it’s clearly visible what the “wake” is.

The area of drag behind the moving object traveling through atmosphere.

What does the area of drag actually mean?

The ball has every indication of being pulled down by gravity through the atmosphere.

It has absolutely no indication what5esoever and you know this.
I don't even know why you're offering it other than you simply adhere to gravity like a limpet and just offer it because you basically can because you'll be backed up by mainstream ideals and mass opinion based on copying and regurgitating.

When despite changes in atmospheric conditions, updrafts, thermals, changes in barometric pressure, high pressure cells, low pressure cells,

You're offering denpressure nothing else.

when objects are acted on by a consistent downward acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2.  Something explained by the presence of a less fickle force called gravity.

There is never any consistent downward force of 9.8m/s^2.
You believe it because that is what you're told, nothing more.

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 20, 2023, 08:17:17 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 19, 2023, 10:29:49 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 19, 2023, 08:12:11 AM

i know what when i put a pebble in an air tight glass jar, pull the jar under water, the pebble sits at the bottom of the jar.

the very same air that supposedly pushes things down, air tight being air is not coming in or out.
and in water, no longer connected to "the foundation".

your entire premise of air, foundation, and connection has no coherent explanation.

First of all your glass jar is still full of atmosphere. It is still stacked atmosphere.
Any dense mass placed into that jar will naturally displace that atmosphere and compress it and that atmosphere will compress right back by what the dense mass of the object displaces of it minus the natural porous volume of the dense mass.

The foundation for the object becomes the jar and the foundation for the jar becomes the water which will crush the jar upwards against the external atmosphere trying to crush it downwards. The denser wins and that's the water because it cannot be displaced by the entirety of the jar unless applied force is added to it, or basically you pushing that jar under the water.


This is why you can gauge the displacement of that jar by applying energy against the natural displacement of the jar itself.

so now atmostphere has memory
if i take it out
put it in a sealed container
move it underwater
it will still know how much to push that pebble "down".

It only pushes back against the pebble because the pebble displaces the atmosphere it is within.

No matter what you do in terms of being on land or at sea you will always be under a stacking system that is greater as the decline goes.

Just put your mind into it instead of thinking atmosphere has memory.

nonsense

"the pebble displaces it's onwn volume of atmosphere"

ok good for it.

but it's the EXTERNAL atmosphere that pushes down on the pebble.
EXTERNAL to the pebble.

so it's either the internal air displaced by the pebble or its the extnerla.

you're flippy flopping all over the place.

"the pebble displaces it's onwn volume of atmosphere"

ok good for it.

Pay better attention. That's not what I said.

but it's the EXTERNAL atmosphere that pushes down on the pebble.
EXTERNAL to the pebble.

You have a jar and it's sealed you said.
So your pebble is inside the jar and it is displacing its own dense mass of atmosphere inside of that jar, minus the natural volume of the pebble.

so it's either the internal air displaced by the pebble or its the extnerla.

The jar is displacing the external atmosphere and the pebble is displacing the atmosphere within the jar.

you're flippy flopping all over the place.

I think it's you that's all over the place. If you're game-playing then fair enough. I'm not too sure if you're deliberately twisting or just not grasping anything.

What does the area of drag actually mean?

The ability for a falling object to have drag and create the lower pressure void behind it creating a turbulent wake in the directions other than “down” proves that “atmosphere” isn’t pushing it down.

So no. Reality is not going to support the den pressure delusion.

It has absolutely no indication what5esoever and you know this.

The fact that updrafts and thermals exist where “atmosphere” pushes up away from “foundation” proves your delusion is fundamentally wrong.  And you been pushing a lie for?  What?  Ten years.

Sad one little video and updrafts wreck a decade of your “work”.  And shows demonstrably den pressure is a lie. 


https://aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0253.shtml

There is never any consistent downward force of 9.8m/s^2.
You believe it because that is what you're told, nothing more.

Again.  You’re fundamentally wrong.

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 21, 2023, 08:08:15 AM

"the pebble displaces it's onwn volume of atmosphere"

ok good for it.

Pay better attention. That's not what I said.

Quote from: Themightykabool

but it's the EXTERNAL atmosphere that pushes down on the pebble.
EXTERNAL to the pebble.

You have a jar and it's sealed you said.
So your pebble is inside the jar and it is displacing its own dense mass of atmosphere inside of that jar, minus the natural volume of the pebble.

Quote from: Themightykabool

so it's either the internal air displaced by the pebble or its the extnerla.

The jar is displacing the external atmosphere and the pebble is displacing the atmosphere within the jar.

Quote from: Themightykabool

you're flippy flopping all over the place.

I think it's you that's all over the place. If you're game-playing then fair enough. I'm not too sure if you're deliberately twisting or just not grasping anything.

then it's stacked through the jar through the water all the way up to the dome.

except in this condition:

underwater, the jar placed on a scale will show some arbitrary "light" weight.
underwater, IN the jar, the pebble IN TRAPPED AIR, on a scale will show a weight, let's say the pebble were a 170lb man and the jar a submarine.

so now the air outside pushing on the water, through the walls of the sealed submarine, pushing on the inside air, pushing on the man shows a weight.
but sub is floating, and a scale will show zero.

but somehow is being pushed.

so what's pushing the sub up to a NET zero weight?

then it's stacked through the jar through the water all the way up to the dome.

The jar displaces the atmosphere with its own dense mass.
The pebble inside the jar displaces the atmosphere inside the jar and that displaced atmosphere is already external to the jar, otherwise, how do you get the pebble into the jar in the first place?

except in this condition:

underwater, the jar placed on a scale will show some arbitrary "light" weight.

A sealed jar will not be able to be weighed on a scale in water unless you use the displaced water in a tared jug to show the displacement.

underwater, IN the jar, the pebble IN TRAPPED AIR, on a scale will show a weight, let's say the pebble were a 170lb man and the jar a submarine.

If the man and sub are on the sea bed and a scale under them then yes it will show a measure of the mass in that water but you're not going to get any meaningful reading for the man and the sub unless you offer captured water displacement into some container if you want the real measurement of the mass of the sub, plus the man.

so now the air outside pushing on the water, through the walls of the sealed submarine, pushing on the inside air, pushing on the man shows a weight.
but sub is floating, and a scale will show zero.

  It's the sub itself plus the man that is displacing the atmosphere and water and that atmosphere and water crushing right back by the amount the dense mass of both displaced it.

but somehow is being pushed.

It's being pushed and resisted.

so what's pushing the sub up to a NET zero weight?

Unless you have a scale to measure the water displacement the sub has no weight, just dense mass displacement, until you scale to measure the water displaced.

cool
so we've agreed that the fluid of water pushes things up.

then why doesn't the fluid of air also push things up?

Unless you have a scale to measure the water displacement the sub has no weight, just dense mass displacement, until you scale to measure the water displaced.

Let’s use a fish.  It’s easier. Most fish have swim bladders.

For context.

The swim bladder, gas bladder, fish maw, or air bladder is an internal gas-filled organ that contributes to the ability of many bony fish (but not cartilaginous fish[1]) to control their buoyancy, and thus to stay at their current water depth without having to expend energy in swimming.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swim_bladder

Now.  Where air molecules expand to ensure no free space in den pressure delusion.  Where air molecules expand their mass in DPD to ensure no free space.  How would a swim bladder work in any meaningful way.  How do the air molecules know what to expand to in a fish’s swim bladder. 

If there was no force of gravity to pull things down.  What causes things with positive buoyancy to push up.  Remember in den pressure delusion there is no force like gravity “fueling” the system and giving it directionality.

cool
so we've agreed that the fluid of water pushes things up.

then why doesn't the fluid of air also push things up?

It's crushed up and the atmosphere does do this. A helium balloon is an example.
It all comes down to the dense mass of the object.

Anything with more dense mass will be crushed down against a resistance.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 21, 2023, 10:18:38 AM

Unless you have a scale to measure the water displacement the sub has no weight, just dense mass displacement, until you scale to measure the water displaced.

Let’s use a fish.  It’s easier. Most fish have swim bladders.

For context.

Quote

The swim bladder, gas bladder, fish maw, or air bladder is an internal gas-filled organ that contributes to the ability of many bony fish (but not cartilaginous fish[1]) to control their buoyancy, and thus to stay at their current water depth without having to expend energy in swimming.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swim_bladder

Now.  Where air molecules expand to ensure no free space in denpressure .

There's never any free space.
And I don't think you have the expansion in any correct manner unless you can tell me what's on your mind with expansion and how it works in denpressure.
It's likely you've taken analogies as the full explanation and if so you're going to struggle. But let's see.

  Where air molecules expand their mass in DP to ensure no free space.  How would a swim bladder work in any meaningful way.  How do the air molecules know what to expand to in a fish’s swim bladder.

They don't.
The effort of the fish itself pushing into the water will offer resistance to that push and allow the fish to stay at a certain depth


 

If there was no force of gravity to pull things down.  What causes things with positive buoyancy to push up?

They're crushed up by the stacked layering the object is in if the object cannot overcome the resistance below it.

  Remember in denpressure there is no force like gravity “fueling” the system and giving it directionality.

No need for fictional gravity.
The stacked layering of dense to less dense molecules does the job perfectly well.

Quote from: Themightykabool on June 21, 2023, 10:46:42 AM

cool
so we've agreed that the fluid of water pushes things up.

then why doesn't the fluid of air also push things up?

It's crushed up and the atmosphere does do this. A helium balloon is an example.
It all comes down to the dense mass of the object.

Anything with more dense mass will be crushed down against a resistance.

up
ok
so fluid pressure gradients "crush things up"
we in the normal world call this bouyancy.

and finally to jackB's long standing question - WHY DOWN?  if fluids like air and water push things UP, HOW TO DOWN?