Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth

  • 2208 Replies
  • 618317 Views
*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #210 on: June 01, 2023, 04:33:54 AM »
And more deflection, and ignoring that all your BS has been refuted again. Not even an attempt to refute the refutations.
Truly pathetic.

Certainly not gravity. Gravity is supposedly something that makes things fall.
Gravity is an attraction between masses.
This is normally seen as objects quite close to Earth, falling towards Earth.
But it also explains orbits.

That is one reason why gravity is so great a model, because it is a fairly simple thing which explains multiple observations.

In actuality, if gravity existed and the sun is more massive, the Earth and all planets should immediately all into the sun.
How many times are you planning on repeating this same dishonest, delusional, refuted BS?

Gravity isn't magically.
It doesn't just magically apply an infinite force and magically pull everything in immediately.
Instead it applies a finite force, which acts to accelerate the object.
If that is balanced, it means the object orbits.

If the orbit is circular, with the mass of the secondary being insignificant compared to the mass of the primary, the math is quite simple:
In order to maintain an orbit, the acceleration is given by a=w^2*r=(4*pi^2/T^2)*r
And the acceleration due to gravity is: a=G*M/r^2
So the circular orbit is when these are balanced:
G*M/r^2=(4*pi^2/T^2)*r
G*M/(4*pi^2) = r^3/T^2

(i.e. Kepler's third law).

So wrong again.


But let me answer a question with a question.
Or how about you stop with the pathetic deflection, stop appealing to pure magic, and instead try to answer the question:
How does the sun illuminate an object from below when it is above?

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 8820
  • +52/-54
  • Bestest Buddy of "wise"
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #211 on: June 01, 2023, 06:44:18 AM »
Netwon. ;D

Certainly not gravity. Gravity is supposedly something that makes things fall. It was never a sufficient reason for anything's orbit. Goofy assholes did alot of creative bullshit to come up with this idea of Earth falling in orbit. In actuality, if gravity existed and the sun is more massive, the Earth and all planets should immediately all into the sun. All the circular physics in the world can't change the fact that your own theory indicts you.

But let me answer a question with a question.

Suppose someone were to draw an animation of the moon moving in the sky. They're like a godlike painter or something, and they paint a whole animation on a CGI screen of some sort. Is it relevant to talk about what force moves that moon in the sky? Or is it more relevant to say that no force moves the moon at all? The same goes for the sun.


So you think that the sun and the moon are paintings?

If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #212 on: June 03, 2023, 06:07:37 AM »
Netwon. ;D

Certainly not gravity. Gravity is supposedly something that makes things fall. It was never a sufficient reason for anything's orbit. Goofy assholes did alot of creative bullshit to come up with this idea of Earth falling in orbit. In actuality, if gravity existed and the sun is more massive, the Earth and all planets should immediately all into the sun. All the circular physics in the world can't change the fact that your own theory indicts you.

But let me answer a question with a question.

Suppose someone were to draw an animation of the moon moving in the sky. They're like a godlike painter or something, and they paint a whole animation on a CGI screen of some sort. Is it relevant to talk about what force moves that moon in the sky? Or is it more relevant to say that no force moves the moon at all? The same goes for the sun.


So you think that the sun and the moon are paintings?

Oversimplification.

The sun and moon move around a series of domes.

The first is that they move within the outer dome of the Earth (no motion can work outside an atmosphere, because everything falls and there is nothing to push off of). The second dome is human perspective. When the sun and moin cross near the dome, they can be seen. But is physically impossible for the sun to be in one small section of Earth (saying Reno, Nevada) for nearly 12 hours and then somehow make it to Melbourne, Australia. No, what you are seeing is an image.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 8820
  • +52/-54
  • Bestest Buddy of "wise"
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #213 on: June 03, 2023, 01:12:45 PM »
Netwon. ;D

Certainly not gravity. Gravity is supposedly something that makes things fall. It was never a sufficient reason for anything's orbit. Goofy assholes did alot of creative bullshit to come up with this idea of Earth falling in orbit. In actuality, if gravity existed and the sun is more massive, the Earth and all planets should immediately all into the sun. All the circular physics in the world can't change the fact that your own theory indicts you.

But let me answer a question with a question.

Suppose someone were to draw an animation of the moon moving in the sky. They're like a godlike painter or something, and they paint a whole animation on a CGI screen of some sort. Is it relevant to talk about what force moves that moon in the sky? Or is it more relevant to say that no force moves the moon at all? The same goes for the sun.


So you think that the sun and the moon are paintings?

Oversimplification.

The sun and moon move around a series of domes.

The first is that they move within the outer dome of the Earth (no motion can work outside an atmosphere, because everything falls and there is nothing to push off of). The second dome is human perspective. When the sun and moin cross near the dome, they can be seen. But is physically impossible for the sun to be in one small section of Earth (saying Reno, Nevada) for nearly 12 hours and then somehow make it to Melbourne, Australia. No, what you are seeing is an image.

What keeps them in motion?
If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #214 on: June 03, 2023, 04:21:18 PM »
Oversimplification.
By you? Certainly, because you can't deal with reality.

The RE model works to describe what is observed. Your model doesn't even come close.

You can't explain why the sun appears to set while remaining the same angular size. You can't explain how it casts light upwards onto an object below it.

And try as you might to pretend there are problems with the RE, you just spout a load of crap, then flee, because you can't defend any of that BS.

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #215 on: June 04, 2023, 03:18:59 PM »
You keep calling it reality, but nothing about it can be real.

Offhand, here's a problem with your reality.
The Long Sun ParadoxTM.

Basically, the sun can be seen in multiple latitudes.
The problem with that is that if it's truly much larger than the Earth and able to be seen everywhere from Canada to Chile, if the sun is indeed round and something else is not going on (some kind of rubber stamp effect), then it should also be wide enough to cover several time zones.

The problem? Any fool can see that the sun does not take up the entire sky. Even if you could explain away night and day, by rotation to the backside of Earth, a much larger object appears to be much smaller than the sky? I don't care how far away the sun is, that's not reality.



Picture of the sun impossible on Round Earth.

Long sun should stretch all the way in front of us, instead there is only a small portion of the sky covered by sun. In fact, that picture follows the rule of thirds in photography, meaning the sun cannot be larger than 30% of the sky. As NASA claims, they tell us that it is about 10,000% of the sky's size at least!

This is not reality.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 04:03:10 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

?

DataOverFlow2022

  • 8424
  • +49/-96
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #216 on: June 05, 2023, 03:46:34 AM »


The problem? Any fool can see that the sun does not take up the entire

Why would a sun 93 million miles away take up the whole sky?  How big would it have to be? 

Jupiter is bigger than earth, why doesn’t it take up the whole sky too?

And what is producing the magnitude of charged particles that creates the northern and southern lights as a product of the van Allen belts and a spinning spherical iron core of a spherical earth. 

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #217 on: June 05, 2023, 03:49:44 AM »
You keep calling it reality, but nothing about it can be real.
Why?
You are yet to demonstrate a single fault with it.
Instead, you just keep spouting pathetic BS, having it refuted entirely, and then just acting like you never said anything.

The problem with that is that if it's truly much larger than the Earth and able to be seen everywhere from Canada to Chile, if the sun is indeed round and something else is not going on (some kind of rubber stamp effect), then it should also be wide enough to cover several time zones.

The problem? Any fool can see that the sun does not take up the entire sky. Even if you could explain away night and day, by rotation to the backside of Earth, a much larger object appears to be much smaller than the sky? I don't care how far away the sun is, that's not reality.
And yet again, you are just spouting ignorant garbage, showing either a complete lack of understanding of the model you are trying to refute, or you are just wilfully lying to everyone.

It isn't the sun which makes it possible to see, it is the geometry of Earth. (and the sun being far away helps).

To help you understand, consider a large room with a light in the centre on the roof. Everyone in the room can see the light. That doesn't mean the light is physically larger than the room.

When you look up from the surface of Earth, you can see anywhere in roughly half a circle.
That means you can see the sun as long as it is above a point within roughly 90 degrees of your position.

It is your fantasy, where you need to be within 5 km of the sun that requires a massive sun that would take up the entire sky.

Picture of the sun impossible on Round Earth.
Long sun should stretch all the way in front of us, instead there is only a small portion of the sky covered by sun.
So impossible in your pathetic strawman.
No problem with the real RE model, where the sun has an angular size of roughly 0.5 degrees.

As NASA claims, they tell us that it is about 10,000% of the sky's size at least!

This is not reality.
Your lie is not reality.
NASA does not claim that.
NASA correctly states that the sun has an angular size of roughly 0.5 degrees.
If we limit it to 1 D, that is roughly one 360th of the sky.

Or do I need to refer you to this again:


Your BS is like claiming if you take a picture of a cow from far away, it should take up the entire FOV.

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #218 on: June 05, 2023, 06:34:46 AM »


The problem? Any fool can see that the sun does not take up the entire

Why would a sun 93 million miles away take up the whole sky?  How big would it have to be? 

Jupiter is bigger than earth, why doesn’t it take up the whole sky too?

And what is producing the magnitude of charged particles that creates the northern and southern lights as a product of the van Allen belts and a spinning spherical iron core of a spherical earth.

Oh I see. So perspective is a thing when you say it is. And perspective magically turns an object much larger into an object much smaller.

But here's the problem with perspective. Even if it were able to shrink this colossally large object down, real laws of perspective get in the way of your fantasy notion.



Here's the Pentagon. From close up, it's probably wide enough to cover the entirety of space ahead of someone, but only a few miles away, it disappears into a tiny dot.
Problem 1: How can we even see the sun from 93 million miles away? Btw, that distance sounds like something that a kid came up with. Some random overestimation in order to turn a large object small.
Problem 2: If we were to hire three people to back away from the Pentagon and film the results, the one on the left would see it shrink off to the right, the center one would see it shrink dead center, and the one in right would see it shrink to the left of them. Yet the sun is always in a dead center arc.
Problem 2b: This is despite the Earth constantly being in a different position with regard to the sun with regard to rotation/orbit theory.
Problem 3: Fiddling with perspective doesn't solve the Long Sun Paradox. Either focal length changes as part of perspective (sun appears smaller due to distance? Then it casts light only in a circle that large, and the rest of Earth is in darkness) or we have line of sunlight from Canada to Chile completely unlike how the sun actually looks on Earth.
Just as the shadow from the Pentagon would shrink as you distance yourself from it.

Nice try, though!

Now, how does the sun manage this on Earth? Well if we think of it as a picture coming into frame front first and angled around a dome, then it doesn't actually matter for questions of where the sun is. It always appears centered because it is pointered to our location.
We can in fact verify the angle shift of the sun, as I have done with my study of rainbow circles. During the morning, the sun appears to the east but I have to spray water away from the sun in order to cast a rainbow. To close the circle, the spray has to tilt downward about 15 to 30 degrees. This is consistent with a domed screen (the parabola) around myself. I have to spray in the opposite direction (east and upward) in the afternoon). Unfortunately that angle is kinda awkward in the second case so it's hard to finish. Such a sun does not need to be larger than the Earth, nor must it be 93 million miles away.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2023, 06:57:48 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

?

Themightykabool

  • 13121
  • +58/-81
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #219 on: June 05, 2023, 07:07:05 AM »
Thats an amazing list!

?

DataOverFlow2022

  • 8424
  • +49/-96
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #220 on: June 05, 2023, 12:37:30 PM »

Some random overestimation in order to turn a large object small.

It’s been explained to you repeatedly.  The sun doesn’t change size, the angle it takes up of your view gets smaller with distance.

Like the view you see of a house if your nose is touching one of its outer walls (so a thing doesn’t have to be huge like the sun to take up your whole line of sight) vs    standing back 100 feet and looking at the house, vs seeing the house three or four blocks away. 



Nice close up picture of the pentagon that is an image with a fraction of the actual pentagon length and width dimensions.

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 8820
  • +52/-54
  • Bestest Buddy of "wise"
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #221 on: June 05, 2023, 01:08:07 PM »

Some random overestimation in order to turn a large object small.

It’s been explained to you repeatedly.  The sun doesn’t change size, the angle it takes up of your view gets smaller with distance.

Like the view you see of a house if your nose is touching one of its outer walls (so a thing doesn’t have to be huge like the sun to take up your whole line of sight) vs    standing back 100 feet and looking at the house, vs seeing the house three or four blocks away. 



Nice close up picture of the pentagon that is an image with a fraction of the actual pentagon length and width dimensions.

It doesn't look like there is 17.5 miles of hallways in that building from that picture.
If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #222 on: June 05, 2023, 01:58:43 PM »
Oh I see. So perspective is a thing when you say it is. And perspective magically turns an object much larger into an object much smaller.
No, perspective is ALWAYS a thing.
You are the one trying to use it when convenient and discard it when not.

The sun appears small because it is far away.
Its angular size doesn't change significantly because the distance doesn't change significantly.

Here's the Pentagon. From close up, it's probably wide enough to cover the entirety of space ahead of someone, but only a few miles away, it disappears into a tiny dot.
Which is why if you went further away from the sun from Earth, the sun would appear to shrink, until it eventually reaches a tiny dot.

This also demonstrates why your claim is pure BS, and how you need to repeatedly contradict yourself.

Here you imply the sun should appear as a tiny dot, yet previously you claim it should take up your entire FOV.
Which is it?

Problem 1: How can we even see the sun from 93 million miles away? Btw, that distance sounds like something that a kid came up with. Some random overestimation in order to turn a large object small.
Not a problem.
Do the math.
The sun, when viewed from roughly 150 million km, will have an angular size of roughly 0.5 degrees.

Problem 2: If we were to hire three people to back away from the Pentagon and film the results, the one on the left would see it shrink off to the right, the center one would see it shrink dead center, and the one in right would see it shrink to the left of them. Yet the sun is always in a dead center arc.
Just what do you mean by the sun is always dead centre?
Are you trying to appeal to parallax?

If so, again, try doing it honestly.
The centre on sees the pentagon shrink dead centre.
The one 1 mm off to the right can't tell the difference.

Problem 2b: This is despite the Earth constantly being in a different position with regard to the sun with regard to rotation/orbit theory.
Because you are using the sun as your reference.

Conveniently, the sun is always in the direction of the sun.
If you instead use the stars as a reference, the sun appears to move.

It would be like circling the pentagon, and looking in towards the pentagon, using the pentagon as your reference.

Problem 3: Fiddling with perspective doesn't solve the Long Sun Paradox.
Because there is no paradox. It is just pure nonsense from you.

Again, a light doesn't physically need to be the size of a room for everyone in the room to see it.


Then it casts light only in a circle that large
That is not how a light works.
The sun shines light outwards in all directions.

Your delusional BS is saying if you have a light mounted in the ceiling of a room, it will only illuminate the floor directly below, and it will illuminate a region smaller than the light. That in order to have a light light up an entire room, it must be physically larger than the room and take up your entire view when looking up.

Your claims are pure garbage with no connection to reality at all, and they are trivially refuted by going into a room and turning on a light switch.

Nice try, though!
Not a nice try at all.
You are just throwing whatever dishonest BS you can at the wall hoping something sticks.

Now, how does the sun manage this on Earth
By working how basically all lights work.
Shining light outwards in all directions.
So if a hypothetical observer on Earth located with their eyes at the surface is capable of seeing the sun, then that region will be illuminated, and thus will have "day".
As the sun is far away, it appears small.
As it is far away, moving around on Earth doesn't change the view due to parallax.
Instead, the apparent angle to the sun changes due to the change in reference (Earth's surface).
And as Earth orbits the sun, the sun's apparent position relative to the background stars change.

Now how would this compare for a FE?
Well as the distance to the sun changes dramatically, its angular size changes as well.
As it never goes below Earth, the Earth will never block the view so there will never be a sun set.
As it is above the clouds, it will not illuminate them from below.

We can in fact verify the angle shift of the sun, as I have done with my study of rainbow circles. During the morning, the sun appears to the east but I have to spray water away from the sun in order to cast a rainbow.
Exactly as expected based upon simple physics of any light source, as already explained.

You aren't showing anything unexpected about the sun.
You aren't showing any magical shift.
It is consistent with the sun being a light, and the refraction in water droplets.

Such a sun does not need to be larger than the Earth, nor must it be 93 million miles away.
It needs to be a very large distance away to explain why the angular size doesn't change by any significant amount (and that also means a changing distance is not changing its apparent position).
This large distance necessitates a large physical size to give it an angular size of 0.5 degrees.
That also holds for the moon.

The distinction is that there is actually observable parallax for the moon.
But we also know from the moon's phases that the distance to the sun is many times the distance to the moon.

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #223 on: June 05, 2023, 08:02:10 PM »

Some random overestimation in order to turn a large object small.

It’s been explained to you repeatedly.  The sun doesn’t change size, the angle it takes up of your view gets smaller with distance.

Like the view you see of a house if your nose is touching one of its outer walls (so a thing doesn’t have to be huge like the sun to take up your whole line of sight) vs    standing back 100 feet and looking at the house, vs seeing the house three or four blocks away. 



Nice close up picture of the pentagon that is an image with a fraction of the actual pentagon length and width dimensions.

It doesn't look like there is 17.5 miles of hallways in that building from that picture.

Try standing next to a tall building. Then try looking towards the sky. It may not completely obstruct the sky (unless it is the Tower of Babel), but it dominates the view of the sky.  In the same way the Pentagon is capable of creating a complete obstruction, making it appear to be the widest object ever.

We humans don't actually see a fixed length like that. It narrows or widens based on things like altitude and perspective.



Quote
No, perspective is ALWAYS a thing.
You are the one trying to use it when convenient and discard it when not.

The sun appears small because it is far away.
Its angular size doesn't change significantly because the distance doesn't change significantly.



Yeah... so you are totally not discarding it when inconvenient when the size of the sun (based on distance) should in turn shrink the amount of light cast.

Quote
Which is why if you went further away from the sun from Earth, the sun would appear to shrink, until it eventually reaches a tiny dot.

This also demonstrates why your claim is pure BS, and how you need to repeatedly contradict yourself.

Here you imply the sun should appear as a tiny dot, yet previously you claim it should take up your entire FOV.

In a FE model, the sun is typically modeled near the Earth. It also doesn't get closer or more distant. I've explained this before. Like other things, you discarded it because it was inconvenient. It never gets more distant because it is not dropping out of range. Just out of angle.

There isn't a contradiction. Just a paradox.




The sun at no point is getting closer or farther, it's just flying through a dome. This means if the sun were 40 miles overhead (arbitrary), it would be 40 miles overhead at sunrise, sunset, noon, and after it set; however, we the viewers see it rise at 0 degrees to 15 or so degrees, 90 degrees at noon, and move to 180 degrees at set.

I say it's not a contradiction but a paradox, because the physics of this would necessarily be insane. But...


It is literally impossible for the sun to simultaneously be small enough at range to fit into only a small part of the sky, yet be big enough to blanket the entire Earth in light. It is likewise literally impossible for the Earth to move at high speed yet never be felt. Therefore, what must be happening is the sun passing in and out of perspective. Therefore, as insane as the physics of FE seems, it must be more true than the outright impossible lie that is RE.

Quote
Not a problem.
Do the math.
The sun, when viewed from roughly 150 million km, will have an angular size of roughly 0.5 degrees.

Sorry, NO. Such an angle would cast no light on the Earth. Your math is a bunch of playing around in your head. Delusions. In besides which, the angle is simply not right, as experiments from casting light, shadows, and rainbows have proven. It is too small, the angle is too small, and we can clearly see the sun at a much different angle and size than that.

Quote
Just what do you mean by the sun is always dead centre?
Are you trying to appeal to parallax?

From sunrise to sunset, you can center the entire arc.

Quote
Because there is no paradox. It is just pure nonsense from you.

Yes yes, keep denying things that don't suit you. The fact is, if an object shrinks in size, the light radius also shrinks.

You can test this with real science. Use a lightbulb, a small rubber globe, and a black screen with a hole through the side. In the first instance, we have a hole that is big enough to show the lightbulb and most of its light (representing a near sun that is very large). In the second instance, make a 5/16" hole representing a very distant sun. There should be a small ray of light on the tiny globe. But look at the rest of the globe! It gets no sunlight!

This is the Long Sun Paradox. Either the Earth is close enough to the sun to get sunlight all across this globe, in which case it looks more like this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pillar
or it gives sun for an area of... what was it? 0.5 degrees angular size? And freezes the rest of the Earth.

This is impossible.

Remove the impossible, and whatever remains must be the truth.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2023, 08:04:10 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 8820
  • +52/-54
  • Bestest Buddy of "wise"
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #224 on: June 06, 2023, 06:46:03 AM »

Some random overestimation in order to turn a large object small.

It’s been explained to you repeatedly.  The sun doesn’t change size, the angle it takes up of your view gets smaller with distance.

Like the view you see of a house if your nose is touching one of its outer walls (so a thing doesn’t have to be huge like the sun to take up your whole line of sight) vs    standing back 100 feet and looking at the house, vs seeing the house three or four blocks away. 



Nice close up picture of the pentagon that is an image with a fraction of the actual pentagon length and width dimensions.

It doesn't look like there is 17.5 miles of hallways in that building from that picture.

Try standing next to a tall building. Then try looking towards the sky. It may not completely obstruct the sky (unless it is the Tower of Babel), but it dominates the view of the sky.  In the same way the Pentagon is capable of creating a complete obstruction, making it appear to be the widest object ever.

We humans don't actually see a fixed length like that. It narrows or widens based on things like altitude and perspective.



You're an idiot.  A sheet of letter sized paper can obstruct your entire view making it appear like the widest object ever at 11". 

The pentagon is a massive complex.  Just like a sheet a paper, the further you get away from it, the smaller it appears.

Furthermore, you clearly are conflating field of view and depth of view.



Quote
No, perspective is ALWAYS a thing.
You are the one trying to use it when convenient and discard it when not.

The sun appears small because it is far away.
Its angular size doesn't change significantly because the distance doesn't change significantly.



Yeah... so you are totally not discarding it when inconvenient when the size of the sun (based on distance) should in turn shrink the amount of light cast.

Quote
Which is why if you went further away from the sun from Earth, the sun would appear to shrink, until it eventually reaches a tiny dot.

This also demonstrates why your claim is pure BS, and how you need to repeatedly contradict yourself.

Here you imply the sun should appear as a tiny dot, yet previously you claim it should take up your entire FOV.

In a FE model, the sun is typically modeled near the Earth. It also doesn't get closer or more distant. I've explained this before. Like other things, you discarded it because it was inconvenient. It never gets more distant because it is not dropping out of range. Just out of angle.

There isn't a contradiction. Just a paradox.




The sun at no point is getting closer or farther, it's just flying through a dome. This means if the sun were 40 miles overhead (arbitrary), it would be 40 miles overhead at sunrise, sunset, noon, and after it set; however, we the viewers see it rise at 0 degrees to 15 or so degrees, 90 degrees at noon, and move to 180 degrees at set.

I say it's not a contradiction but a paradox, because the physics of this would necessarily be insane. But...


It is literally impossible for the sun to simultaneously be small enough at range to fit into only a small part of the sky, yet be big enough to blanket the entire Earth in light. It is likewise literally impossible for the Earth to move at high speed yet never be felt. Therefore, what must be happening is the sun passing in and out of perspective. Therefore, as insane as the physics of FE seems, it must be more true than the outright impossible lie that is RE.

Quote
Not a problem.
Do the math.
The sun, when viewed from roughly 150 million km, will have an angular size of roughly 0.5 degrees.

Sorry, NO. Such an angle would cast no light on the Earth. Your math is a bunch of playing around in your head. Delusions. In besides which, the angle is simply not right, as experiments from casting light, shadows, and rainbows have proven. It is too small, the angle is too small, and we can clearly see the sun at a much different angle and size than that.

Quote
Just what do you mean by the sun is always dead centre?
Are you trying to appeal to parallax?

From sunrise to sunset, you can center the entire arc.

Quote
Because there is no paradox. It is just pure nonsense from you.

Yes yes, keep denying things that don't suit you. The fact is, if an object shrinks in size, the light radius also shrinks.

You can test this with real science. Use a lightbulb, a small rubber globe, and a black screen with a hole through the side. In the first instance, we have a hole that is big enough to show the lightbulb and most of its light (representing a near sun that is very large). In the second instance, make a 5/16" hole representing a very distant sun. There should be a small ray of light on the tiny globe. But look at the rest of the globe! It gets no sunlight!

This is the Long Sun Paradox. Either the Earth is close enough to the sun to get sunlight all across this globe, in which case it looks more like this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pillar
or it gives sun for an area of... what was it? 0.5 degrees angular size? And freezes the rest of the Earth.

This is impossible.

Remove the impossible, and whatever remains must be the truth.

Your light pillar experiment is BS.  The 5/16 hole wouldn't represent a large distant sun, it would represent a sun that's small.  Considerably smaller than the earth. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 06:49:22 AM by NotSoSkeptical »
If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

?

DataOverFlow2022

  • 8424
  • +49/-96
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #225 on: June 06, 2023, 01:28:53 PM »








Sigh.  Which in no way explains..

A sun that can produce the amount of charge particles required to make the magnitude of witnessed northern and southern lights.

The straight paths of charged particles.

Lunar eclipse.

Solar eclipse.

The sun becomes physically blocked by the earths curvature so at night the light and radiation of the sun is blocked physically from the night side of earth.

And there is no proof of your delusional parabola.  From radar and laser range finders being accurate.  To how the mist lays.

To how these towers show no distortion from your parabola that has to hide the sunset at three miles…






« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 01:38:33 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #226 on: June 06, 2023, 03:41:26 PM »
We humans don't actually see a fixed length like that. It narrows or widens based on things like altitude and perspective.
Which just further demonstrates the dishonesty of your claim.

You know that when things are far away, they appear smaller.
So you have no basis for your insane claim that the sun should take up the entire sky.
Instead it is based upon wilfully ignoring that.

Yeah... so you are totally not discarding it when inconvenient when the size of the sun (based on distance) should in turn shrink the amount of light cast.
No, I am using when it is appropriate, and explaining why it isn't appropriate at other times.

Again, the fact that the sun keeps a roughly constant angular size demonstrate that it remains roughly the same distance away, so perspective (technically this aspect of it about how things change with distance which is really only a subset0 CANNOT explain why it sets.

Conversely, you simultaneously want to ignore it to pretend that the distance to the sun can change with the only affect being the sun appearing to sink, completely ignoring the other effects of it; you want to completely ignore it to pretend that for the RE the sun should appear massive in the sky; and then you want to apply it far too much (so incorrectly), to pretend the sun should just be a point in the sky.

Notice how you just ignore it when it demonstrates the FE is wrong, and then just make up whatever BS you want about it to pretend there is a problem with the RE?

Instead of just making up crap, why don't you provide all the math to determine what the angular size of the sun should be for an observer on Earth in the RE model?

In a FE model, the sun is typically modeled near the Earth. It also doesn't get closer or more distant. I've explained this before.
You mean you have appealed to this to deflect from the issue, being incredibly dishonest as you do so.
In most FE models today the sun is roughly 5000 km above Earth, and it remains that distance above Earth.

But that is the distance TO EARTH, not to the observer.
For the observer, the sun can be directly overhead. That is a distance of 5000 km.
But it is not always overhead, it can also be overhead a point some 10 000 km away, and still be visible.
For the OBSERVER (not Earth) that means the the sun is at a distance of sqrt(10000^2 + 5000^2) =~ 11 000 km.

Notice how the distance has changed from 5000 km to 11 000 km?

That means the distance has changed.

If you wish to have the distance to the observer remain the same, then that means it's apparent motion is due to relative motion, that when it appears to go down, it is actually going down (or the observer is rotating away or going up). And if that is true for all observers all over Earth, that means the size of Earth is insignificant compared to the distance to the sun, so the sun must be far away.

If instead you want to claim that it only appears to go down due to perspective; then that is saying it is going down because the distance to the sun is increasing.
That means it should also appear smaller.

So you ARE contradicting yourself.

This means you need a completely different mechanics to try explaining your BS.

And you have no explanation at all for why the sun should magically project onto a parabola, to magically result in the sun appearing the same angular size, and magically appearing exactly as you would expect for a RE.

Rather than just asserting such BS, try explaining how it would work.

because the physics of this would necessarily be insane.
Yes, the physics of what you claim would be entirely insane.
Which is why it is discarded as nonsense, especially given there is a functioning RE model which actually works to explain reality.

It is literally impossible for the sun to simultaneously be small enough at range to fit into only a small part of the sky, yet be big enough to blanket the entire Earth in light.
You sure do love your baseless claims and strawmen.
It doesn't blanket the entire Earth. It blankets roughly half of it. And this is very trivial to do.

Notice how you are just asserting pure garbage, with absolutely no justification at all.
Why should this be impossible?


You need a light source, and simple geometry.

The only time it gets a bit tricky is focusing on that "roughly" half part.

If you had a point light source, or a light source physically smaller and no atmosphere, it would always be slightly less than half.
If the light source is larger, then it will be slightly more than half.

And in addition, the atmosphere causes refraction which allows slightly more to be illuminated.

If you want, wait for a nice dark night. Go get a very powerful torch. Tie it up to a fence post shining roughly horizontal, and have a ball to expose to the torch. Now walk away from the torch, ensuring you hold the ball to your side so you can observe the torch still lighting it up.
Once you reach some distance away, look at the ball, and observe the ball is lit up by the torch, an entire half of the ball (roughly). Then turn to the torch, and observe how it appears small.

Or, just use the simple geometry (Note: Not to scale, as a scale diagram with Earth as a single px would have the distance to the sun be roughly 12 000  px):

The red shows the region illuminated by the sun, with a nice light blue on Earth.
The purple shows the angular size of the sun for an observer on Earth.

Making it to scale will result in roughly 50% of Earth being illuminated, and the angular size of the sun being roughly 0.5 degrees.

So no problem here.

It is likewise literally impossible for the Earth to move at high speed yet never be felt.
We have been over this dishonest BS of yours countless times. YOU DON'T FEEL SPEED!
So it is entirely possible for Earth to move at high speed yet not be felt, because you don't feel speed.

Therefore, you HAVEN'T eliminated the RE as impossible.
Instead, you just assert dishonest BS because you hate reality.

Sorry, NO. Such an angle would cast no light on the Earth.
WHY?
Stop just asserting pure BS, and start justifying it.

the angle is simply not right, as experiments from casting light, shadows, and rainbows have proven.
None of those experiments give you the angle.
The angle can be directly measured.
And guess what? When you do measure it, you get 0.5 degrees.

A simple way to measure it is a pinhole camera.

From sunrise to sunset, you can center the entire arc.
So what you are saying is that you can look towards the sun?

Guess what, even with your pentagon example, an observer off to the left can look directly towards the pentagon, and keep doing so as they move around, keeping it "Dead centre".

Yes yes, keep denying things that don't suit you.
You are the one denying things that don't suit you. Not me.
I am the one explaining why your BS doesn't work.

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #227 on: June 06, 2023, 03:53:03 PM »
The fact is, if an object shrinks in size, the light radius also shrinks.
That isn't a fact.
It isn't even a clearly defined sentence.
What do you mean by a light radius?

Remember, we are talking about omnidirectional light sources. That is something which casts light outwards in all directions.
There is no "light radius" for that.

That would be if the sun was a spotlight. In which case it depends entirely upon what optics are used to take the light source and make it directional.
You can have a small light with a big "light radius", and a much larger light with a smaller "light radius".

But perhaps the biggest load of BS with this, is how you are linking the angular size of the obeject, with the physical size.
Go get a torch, which shines out light in a small range of directions.
Turn it on and hold it up to a wall, just a tiny bit away, and observe how the torch illuminated a small region of the wall.
Now move away, so you are some distance from the wall, and observe how the region illuminated is larger.
That is because the torch is illuminating an angular region, so the further away you are, the more it illuminated. Yet it still appears smaller.


So no, that isn't a fact.
It is just more irrational BS from you to pretend there is a problem with the globe because you can't demonstrate any actual problem.

Even taking it in the most favourable interpretation for the topic at hand, it is a blatant lie which goes directly against the facts.

You can test this with real science. Use a lightbulb, a small rubber globe, and a black screen with a hole through the side. In the first instance, we have a hole that is big enough to show the lightbulb and most of its light (representing a near sun that is very large). In the second instance, make a 5/16" hole representing a very distant sun. There should be a small ray of light on the tiny globe. But look at the rest of the globe! It gets no sunlight!
And more dishonest BS from you.
Notice how here you aren't moving the sun further away, what you are doing is blocking out most of it.
This is like saying, look at an eclipse and see how the moon casts a shadow on Earth.

Lets demonstrate your dishonest with the example of a light in the ceiling in a room.
Lets use a small lamp for this representation.
We will have a white sheet of paper to represent the room (you can even draw parts of the room on it, like the furniture) and a black piece of cardboard to block the light.
First we have a large hole in the piece of black cardboard, to represent the light up close, as if the light was on the floor, and we observe the entire sheet lit up.
Now we switch to a small hole, to represent the light being on the ceiling of the room, and we now observe only a small region of the floor lit up.
So if we use your dishonest BS, we reach the entirely incorrect conclusion that a light on the ceiling of a room should only cast a small circle of light on the floor.
Yet this is easily demonstrated to be false, by walking into a room and turning on a light and observing the room being lit up, not just a small circle on the floor.

So it is clear your argument is pure BS.

And do you know what the problem is?
That you are converting an omnidirectional light source, into a directional light source.
You aren't modelling a greater distance, you are modelling a more directional light source.
So it wouldn't be the sun being further away, it would be the sun magically being focused into a tiny area.

Do you know how to hoenstly model a more distant light?
Take a light globe (either in a lamp which allows a large amount of light in lots of directions on one side, or one with no cover, or even a torch would work as long as the "close" version illuminates a large enough region), and a ball (or you can even use a flat surface if you want).
Turn off all the other lights, and just have this 1.
Start with the right next to the ball (or flat surface) and observe how it will illuminate a large potion (it should illuminate the entire flat surface, and for the ball a region dependent upon how far away it is), illuminating the closest region most brightly.
Now move the light away (I know, what a crazy idea, modelling a distant light source, by moving the light away?) and observe how the region illuminated DOES NOT SHRINK! Instead, the brightness shrinks and becomes more even accross the surface. For a ball, it actually results in MORE being illuminated, not less.

Notice how an honest model, rather than your BS, doesn't show any problem with the RE?

This is the Long Sun Paradox.
So your "paradox" that you are trying to use to refute the RE, is nothing more than a pathetic lie which is trivial to demonstrate is a pathetic lie?
So you have no honest rational arguments against the RE, and instead need to resort to pathetic lies?

Remove the impossible, and whatever remains must be the truth.
And we have removed the impossible BS of a FE, and left the RE remaining as truth.

Again, you are yet to show a single actual fault with the RE. All you have are made up garbage with no justification at all, and blatant lies.

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #228 on: June 07, 2023, 01:06:38 PM »
Saw this today, and decided it's a pretty good analysis of the level of gullibility and fraud involved in convincing the public that Earth is round.



"Tastes just like mango," they say, even though it has no sugars and is thus a totally unnatural product (as all fruits contain fructose). The lemur then proceeds to give up his peaceful life and natural diet of real fruit in order to embrace a bottle of water wrapped in plastic and stuffed in chemicals.

In much the same way, we discard our real knowledge that the sun rises and sets within the parabola of self, and embrace a fraud of a synthetic round Earth. The truth is that this world is a dream, and we live eighty years only to wake up. The falsehood on the other hand is in order to convince people of other lies, like these.
Climate Change
Science is gonna make Immortality

Meanwhile, the "immortality" that "science" delivers is an unending dream. Or rather nightmare, as it convinces us perpetually that cold and hard "truths" are real. That God doesn't exist, that we are all tiny beings in a big universe, and that nobody cares about our pain. Much like replacing wholesome fruit with a chemical water substance, the ersatz worldview of so-called "science" (real science allows for experimentation and exploration) depletes the wholesome joy of a mortal life that is transient followed by afterlife, with the "reality" of a world where the goal is this world to last forever. Nothing in this world is designed to last forever.

If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

?

Themightykabool

  • 13121
  • +58/-81
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #229 on: June 07, 2023, 01:12:26 PM »
that IS a great video!!!

i note i can "see the curve" on the mango, the bottle, the tree branch, the lemurs heads.
because they all have a distinct edge from where, cameras point of view, the curve of the surface of the obkect turns from the front and curves around to the back.

AMAZING proof of the horizon on a beach.

thanks for comign out.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 05:51:01 PM by Themightykabool »

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #230 on: June 07, 2023, 03:10:25 PM »
Saw this today, and decided it's a pretty good analysis of the level of gullibility and fraud involved in convincing the public that Earth is round.
You mean concerning the RE, where FEers lie and try to con people into thinking Earth is flat?

Remember, you are the one repeatedly lying about the RE to pretend there is a problem.
You are the one refusing to explain how quite simple things work on a FE, needing to resort to such insane ideas with absolutely no evidence to support it.

Notice how yet again, after having all your delusional BS refuted, you just entirely ignore it, pretending it never happened; bringing out a shiney video to try to distract people.

That is basically an admission that you were knowingly spouting pure BS to pretend there is a problem when there is none.

So we remain where we were before:
The RE model works. It explains what is observed. You are unable to show a single fault with it.
The FE model does not work in any way. You are not able to address trivial issues with it.

Relevant to the topic of this thread, the RE model explains why the sun casts light upwards. The FE model can't.

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #231 on: June 07, 2023, 06:01:05 PM »




Sun is behind cloud, not below it. Any questions?
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #232 on: June 07, 2023, 06:04:21 PM »
that IS a great video!!!

i note i can "see the curve" on the mango, the bottle, the tree branch, the lemurs heads.
because they all have a distinct edge from where, cameras point of view, the curve of the surface of the obkect turns from the front and curves around to the back.

AMAZING proof of the horizon on a beach.

thanks for comign out.

I see. So in addition to telling you that fake water tastes just the same as mangoes, they try to mess with the horizon to make it curved.  Or maybe that's you just seeing what you want to see?

If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

?

Themightykabool

  • 13121
  • +58/-81
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #233 on: June 08, 2023, 04:39:46 AM »
that IS a great video!!!

i note i can "see the curve" on the mango, the bottle, the tree branch, the lemurs heads.
because they all have a distinct edge from where, cameras point of view, the curve of the surface of the obkect turns from the front and curves around to the back.

AMAZING proof of the horizon on a beach.

thanks for comign out.

I see. So in addition to telling you that fake water tastes just the same as mangoes, they try to mess with the horizon to make it curved.  Or maybe that's you just seeing what you want to see?


See the verticle edge of the cylinder.

From our pov its a straight line up.
A distinct edge.
The curving away from us.
Yss no?

https://www.google.com/search?q=picture+of+a+cylinder&oq=picture+of+a+cylinder&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i512l2j0i22i30l7j0i15i22i30j0i22i30l4.4875j0j9&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=HCXwpB59l0JkvM

?

Themightykabool

  • 13121
  • +58/-81
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #234 on: June 08, 2023, 04:40:21 AM »




Sun is behind cloud, not below it. Any questions?

Yes i have one.
Why can i see a distinct sun below the clouds?



Actually
I have two.
Does a cloud behave the same as clear still water in terms of this loght refraction?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 04:43:11 AM by Themightykabool »

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #235 on: June 08, 2023, 04:42:01 AM »
Sun is behind cloud, not below it. Any questions?
Just how do you think refraction, which causes light to bend downwards, helps you out at all?

See how the bottom of the clouds are illuminated?
But the side closest to you isn't?
That means it is lit from below.

Remember, the clouds are only a few 10s of km high, but the sun is meant to be 5000 km high in most FE fantasies.

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #236 on: June 08, 2023, 05:57:36 AM »




Sun is behind cloud, not below it. Any questions?

Yes i have one.
Why can i see a distinct sun below the clouds?

It's funny, but I see a faint yellow line near this sun. Start with the sun, and trace your finger above it, and you can pretty clearly see that the sun isn't in its actual position.

Actually
I have two.
Does a cloud behave the same as clear still water in terms of this loght refraction?

Light isn't being refracted here. It's behind the cloud and getting reflected (by the ground) so it looks ahead and below it. The excess light around here might be getting refracted, but this is what they mean by refracted.

Refracted light appears to sink into a surface, but that's not what's happening with the sun, it's bouncing forward in pperspective. The sky looks all reddish because of the interplay with the clouds, but the position of the sun is due to reflection not refraction. You were looking at the diagram wrong.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 06:01:47 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

*

bulmabriefs144

  • 6256
  • +79/-78
  • Roco the Fox
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #237 on: June 08, 2023, 06:11:46 AM »
that IS a great video!!!

i note i can "see the curve" on the mango, the bottle, the tree branch, the lemurs heads.
because they all have a distinct edge from where, cameras point of view, the curve of the surface of the obkect turns from the front and curves around to the back.

AMAZING proof of the horizon on a beach.

thanks for comign out.

I see. So in addition to telling you that fake water tastes just the same as mangoes, they try to mess with the horizon to make it curved.  Or maybe that's you just seeing what you want to see?


See the verticle edge of the cylinder.

From our pov its a straight line up.
A distinct edge.
The curving away from us.
Yss no?

https://www.google.com/search?q=picture+of+a+cylinder&oq=picture+of+a+cylinder&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i512l2j0i22i30l7j0i15i22i30j0i22i30l4.4875j0j9&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=HCXwpB59l0JkvM

Yeah no. A cylinder has a horizontal curve. You have yet to understand that the horizon does wrap around,

but until you establish vertical curve you haven't proved a damned thing. If the horizon appears cylindrical, then it cannot be a sphere.

It can however possibly be a dome if you prove there is a tapered roof.



As I say. Seeing what you want to see.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 06:28:16 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

?

Themightykabool

  • 13121
  • +58/-81
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #238 on: June 08, 2023, 07:07:27 AM »
AMAZING!






refraction is different but is a prat of what makes difusion.
Your sun on rhe water is an example of reflection diffusion by the ripples and waves.


If the light from sun above the cloud goes through the cloud line, it woukd look dimmer from the lessening of rays due to reflection amd the redirections due to refrsction.

But all that, it would still appear above the cloud.


Small example.

Go under wster.
Look at the sun.
Does it appear UNDER the water line or ABOVE it?


« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 07:13:06 AM by Themightykabool »

?

Themightykabool

  • 13121
  • +58/-81
Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #239 on: June 08, 2023, 07:15:03 AM »
that IS a great video!!!

i note i can "see the curve" on the mango, the bottle, the tree branch, the lemurs heads.
because they all have a distinct edge from where, cameras point of view, the curve of the surface of the obkect turns from the front and curves around to the back.

AMAZING proof of the horizon on a beach.

thanks for comign out.

I see. So in addition to telling you that fake water tastes just the same as mangoes, they try to mess with the horizon to make it curved.  Or maybe that's you just seeing what you want to see?


See the verticle edge of the cylinder.

From our pov its a straight line up.
A distinct edge.
The curving away from us.
Yss no?

https://www.google.com/search?q=picture+of+a+cylinder&oq=picture+of+a+cylinder&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i512l2j0i22i30l7j0i15i22i30j0i22i30l4.4875j0j9&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=HCXwpB59l0JkvM

Yeah no. A cylinder has a horizontal curve. You have yet to understand that the horizon does wrap around,

but until you establish vertical curve you haven't proved a damned thing. If the horizon appears cylindrical, then it cannot be a sphere.

It can however possibly be a dome if you prove there is a tapered roof.



As I say. Seeing what you want to see.


Cool
So weve established what a curve looks like when viewed at a certain angle.

Ok
Lets take the cylinder now
And instead of just round in one direction, its round all over.

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung&sxsrf=APwXEde97c3hF0R5M3kEH1U1luKci_fX9A:1686233673355&q=sphere&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig5u747bP_AhUXM1kFHW6TD-EQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=360&bih=612&dpr=3#imgrc=k6jDNpX2xvICmM