Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1050 on: January 21, 2024, 12:07:29 AM »
While the one repeating lies is saying I am, that's a good one!
You mean another good lie for you?

If we measured the strength ovet a wind, or from a magnet, or an electrical charge, iy would read at a specific level, at any point of it.
This depends on what you mean by strength.
Wind is commonly measured as a speed. That speed is not the force.
A magnetic field is measured in Tesla's, but that is not the force.
An electric charge you could measure the charge itself, or the electric field. Neither is a force.

Or we can measure the force on an object due to that.
This is then object dependent.
For example, we can use a parachute to measure the force of the wind, and a different parachute will give a different force in the same wind.

An electrical charge ftom a live wire emits a certain voltage outward
Yes, a certain voltage, not a certain force.

A wind emits one level of force over an area too
Over a specific area. If you change that area, you change the force.

Forces emit one degree of energy at a time, they do not vary to any object or whatever is out there.
No, they don't.
And the above examples show you are wrong.

The wind does not blow out proportionally to what is out there
No, it has a single wind speed, and the force of that varies based upon the object shape and size.

Not all objects exposed to that wind experience the same force, nor have the same energy imparted.


That is what we measure, all the time - one level of voltage put out, to all beyond it.
Just like one gravitational field.

For gravity, with the simple approximation for Earth's surface, that is the little g in F=m g.

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Smoke Machine

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1051 on: January 21, 2024, 12:30:33 AM »
You call them liars. That isn't an insult, Jack?
Did you even bother reading what I said?

Calling someone a liar, after they have repeatedly demonstrated they are a liar, is not insulting.

But again, the big distinction is what else happens and when I call them a liar.
Timmy comes in and starts straight off with insults with no attempt to address the argument raised.
I come in and explain why they are wrong, many times, and only call them a liar if they repeat the same falsehoods multiple times without dealing with the refutation of that.

FLAT EARTH in respect to the entire world is already a lie. They are locked into a lie.

I have seen you explain why they are wrong, hundreds of times. They don't budge, and that's not necessarily because they are lying, but because they are indoctrinated. They are brainwashed. You calling them a liar is you interpreting them as lying, when they are just giving brainwashed responses.

You can't sustain your politeness with them and neither can any body else. That's the truth.
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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turbonium2

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1052 on: January 26, 2024, 11:07:37 PM »
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Or we can measure the force on an object due to that.
This is then object dependent.
For example, we can use a parachute to measure the force of the wind, and a different parachute will give a different force in the same wind.

No, it is the one same force throughout.

The larger of surface area of the object will expose more of it to that same force, it doesn’t change in strength, the object is more exposed to the one force that is spread out over the area, it doesn’t change at all.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1053 on: January 26, 2024, 11:16:22 PM »
Xan you not agree that force is a function of mass x acceleration?

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1054 on: January 27, 2024, 12:43:27 AM »
No, it is the one same force throughout.
Again, that is clearly pure BS.
If it was, then the parachute stowed nicely in the bag would have the exact same force as the parachute when it is fully deployed.

The larger of surface area of the object will expose more of it to that same force
Or to state it without all your dishonest BS, the larger surface area will result in a greater force, because the force is proportional to the area.

Just like more mass results in more force for gravity.

You can even explain it like that. Gravity is sending out the "same forceTM, but more mass means more of the object is exposed to more of that same force"

It doesn't matter what kind of convoluted BS you try to wrap it in.
The force on the sky diver from the parachute depends on the area of that parachute, with a deployed parachute having a larger cross sectional area and therefore being more affected by air resistance and applying a greater force to the sky diver.
Just like if you have a weight on a rope, the larger the mass, the larger the force on the rope.

Gravity is not special in this regards.
Lying about reality doesn't help you. It just how desperate you are and how pathetic your position is.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1055 on: January 27, 2024, 06:36:16 AM »
Xan you not agree that force is a function of mass x acceleration?
What comes first?

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1056 on: January 27, 2024, 07:24:18 AM »
Xan you not agree that force is a function of mass x acceleration?
What comes first?

How about a model as accurate or more accurate than 1750’s physics.

And you can’t even model and predicted the actions of a dropped ball with your delusion. 


Funny how you go on about “gobbledygook”, when gravity allows for accurate and meaningful predictions and modeling for engineering. While you fail to produce any useful benefit to your words salads that can’t even be demonstrated. 

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sceptimatic

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1057 on: January 27, 2024, 07:55:26 AM »
Xan you not agree that force is a function of mass x acceleration?
What comes first?

How about a model as accurate or more accurate than 1750’s physics.

And you can’t even model and predicted the actions of a dropped ball with your delusion. 


Funny how you go on about “gobbledygook”, when gravity allows for accurate and meaningful predictions and modeling for engineering. While you fail to produce any useful benefit to your words salads that can’t even be demonstrated.
You go on about predicting the dropped ball but what is it you're predicting for it?
You say gravity and use 9.8 metres per second fall or 9.8 metres per second squared in terms of using a fictional vacuum, yet over what accurate height of drop?
The answer is very little height for drop because firstly the drop in a supposed vacuum is minimal and the drop from much more elevated atmospheric height does not offer anything like accuracy but atmospheric resistance is then brought into play, so don't give me that old codswallop of an offering as if you know what you're talking about.
You're just a reader/regurgitator and that's it.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1058 on: January 27, 2024, 08:16:08 AM »
Xan you not agree that force is a function of mass x acceleration?
What comes first?

How about a model as accurate or more accurate than 1750’s physics.

And you can’t even model and predicted the actions of a dropped ball with your delusion. 


Funny how you go on about “gobbledygook”, when gravity allows for accurate and meaningful predictions and modeling for engineering. While you fail to produce any useful benefit to your words salads that can’t even be demonstrated.
You go on about predicting the dropped ball but what is it you're predicting for it?
You say gravity and use 9.8 metres per second fall or 9.8 metres per second squared in terms of using a fictional vacuum, yet over what accurate height of drop?
The answer is very little height for drop because firstly the drop in a supposed vacuum is minimal and the drop from much more elevated atmospheric height does not offer anything like accuracy but atmospheric resistance is then brought into play, so don't give me that old codswallop of an offering as if you know what you're talking about.
You're just a reader/regurgitator and that's it.

For most things, such as just dropping a ball, air resistance can be ignored and get an accurate prediction.  Notice using gravity drives the magnitude of accuracy for everyday things. 

Now.  Show us how to get an accurate prediction by ignoring gravity.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1059 on: January 27, 2024, 08:20:31 AM »
For most things, such as just dropping a ball, air resistance can be ignored and get an accurate prediction.
What mechanism is used to get an accurate prediction and what heights has this mechanism been implemented to show this consistent accuracy?


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  Notice using gravity drives the magnitude of accuracy for everyday things. 
No I don't notice anything of the sort and neither do you if you're honest.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Now.  Show us how to get an accurate prediction by ignoring gravity.
An accurate prediction for what?

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1060 on: January 27, 2024, 08:21:24 AM »
Quote
Of course, there is a tiny bit of common ground, thanks to the fact that the air resistance force isn’t actually all that large. So the physicist’s approach of ignoring air resistance works pretty well for a lot of cases involving everyday objects, particularly those with a large mass.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2015/09/29/the-annoying-physics-of-air-resistance/amp/

A simple ball drop from 10 foot can accurately be predicted by ignoring air resistance.  The same level of accuracy cannot be achieved by only taking in account air resistance, and ignoring gravity like it doesn’t exist. 

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1061 on: January 27, 2024, 08:24:10 AM »
For most things, such as just dropping a ball, air resistance can be ignored and get an accurate prediction.
What mechanism is used to get an accurate prediction and what heights has this mechanism been implemented to show this consistent accuracy?


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  Notice using gravity drives the magnitude of accuracy for everyday things. 
No I don't notice anything of the sort and neither do you if you're honest.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Now.  Show us how to get an accurate prediction by ignoring gravity.
An accurate prediction for what?

Funny from a person that can’t even model a ball drop with their delusion.

Go ahead. Please provide us with a modeled ball drop in your delusion and its predictions.  Vs using gravity and ignoring air resistance.  Then compare that to reality. 

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sceptimatic

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1062 on: January 27, 2024, 08:31:41 AM »
Funny from a person that can’t even model a ball drop with their delusion.
Funny that you have no clue except to use 9.8 metres per second from books and not done any testing yourself to verify any accuracy.
This is why you're dodging.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Go ahead. Please provide us with a modeled ball drop in your delusion and its predictions.  Vs using gravity and ignoring air resistance.  Then compare that to reality.
If I ignore air resistance then there's no experiment.
You think you live on an Earth that offers zero resistance.
This comes back to delusional.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1063 on: January 27, 2024, 08:32:20 AM »

What mechanism

There is no force in your delusion to make the ball accelerate down.

The atmosphere goes from lower pressure down into greater pressure. 

Please write out the equation for your delusion on how without the force of gravity an object accelerates down from low pressure high up into the resistance of greater pressure below. 

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1064 on: January 27, 2024, 08:35:25 AM »
M
Funny that you have no clue

Which would be a lie by you addressed in this listed thread below.

Gravity, just understood it existed
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=92166.0

You have any more flat earth lies and cliches. 


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sceptimatic

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1065 on: January 27, 2024, 08:41:17 AM »

What mechanism

There is no force in your delusion to make the ball accelerate down.
Of course there is but you fail to recognise it because it kills gravity and you can't be having that to scupper your life book absorption.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The atmosphere goes from lower pressure down into greater pressure.
The atmosphere stacks to end up with higher (below) to lower (above) pressure from the floor up, based on that stacking system, which you can't grasp.
 
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Please write out the equation for your delusion on how without the force of gravity an object accelerates down from low pressure high up into the resistance of greater pressure below.
No need. All you need is to be able to grasp explanations and you can't.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1066 on: January 27, 2024, 08:43:04 AM »
M
Funny that you have no clue

Which would be a lie by you addressed in this listed thread below.

Gravity, just understood it existed
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=92166.0

You have any more flat earth lies and cliches.
It's not a lie. You simply have no clue about gravity as regards reality, except to read up on what you're told it supposedly is.
This is why you and your brother always use the lie silliness to get at people as if it answers questions.
You're weak.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1067 on: January 27, 2024, 08:44:28 AM »

If I ignore air resistance then there's no experiment.


 Using gravity is the driving force of weight and downward acceleration.

If there was no gravity, only atmosphere my weight should be all over the place on a day like this.



Clouds moving right, left, and atmosphere pushing fog upwards. 

Despite the atmospheric turbulence, and my weight is driven by gravity, my weight stays 220 lbs.  Because gravity drives my weight, the scale still reads 220 lbs despite the crazy atmosphere.


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1068 on: January 27, 2024, 08:47:16 AM »


It's not a lie.

It is your lie.  You can’t debate actual models so you have to create a lie that changes the subject and takes the focus of the failures of your delusion.

Again..

Please write out the equation for your delusion on how without the force of gravity an object accelerates down from low pressure high up into the resistance of greater pressure below.



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sceptimatic

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1069 on: January 27, 2024, 08:53:11 AM »

If I ignore air resistance then there's no experiment.


 Using gravity is the driving force of weight and downward acceleration.

If there was no gravity, only atmosphere my weight should be all over the place on a day like this.



Clouds moving right, left, and atmosphere pushing fog upwards. 

Despite the atmospheric turbulence, and my weight is driven by gravity, my weight stays 220 lbs.  Because gravity drives my weight, the scale still reads 220 lbs despite the crazy atmosphere.
Let's make this a little bit easier to understand. Not for you because I know you have no ability nor wish to do so...but for those who want to, which don't include frenzied global Earthers like yourself and Jackie and co.


Could you stay on a scale amid a hurricane directly impacting you?
Could a hurricane lift you off your feet or unbalance you?
What wind forces could impact your balance?
Do you think wind forces could offer up a scale imbalance to offer up a reading of less or even more of your mass on that plate?

You know the answer but you insist on offering up something as a trick.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1070 on: January 27, 2024, 08:54:01 AM »


It's not a lie.

It is your lie.  You can’t debate actual models so you have to create a lie that changes the subject and takes the focus of the failures of your delusion.

Again..

Please write out the equation for your delusion on how without the force of gravity an object accelerates down from low pressure high up into the resistance of greater pressure below.
No need for an equation. The only need is for people to get the gist of what's happening.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1071 on: January 27, 2024, 09:11:00 AM »



Could you stay on a scale

Again.  The only force in your delusion is atmosphere.

Any small deviation in atmosphere should grateful impact my weight.  But it doesn’t.

Gravity is the major driving force of weight.

So the only thing you can come up with in your delusion is my weight shouldn’t change until hurricane force winds?
 
Which is about the same as gravity keeps an airplane on the ground until the airplane gains enough speed to create enough lift with the wings to overcome gravity.  If the wind has enough force to overcome gravity and the fraction of your feet with the ground, it can make you tumble.

But how is a wind on a normal day in your delusion coming at my face at 10 MPH and creating the downward force that is my 220 pounds. 


« Last Edit: January 27, 2024, 09:24:21 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1072 on: January 27, 2024, 09:21:38 AM »


It's not a lie.

It is your lie.  You can’t debate actual models so you have to create a lie that changes the subject and takes the focus of the failures of your delusion.

Again..

Please write out the equation for your delusion on how without the force of gravity an object accelerates down from low pressure high up into the resistance of greater pressure below.
No need for an equation. The only need is for people to get the gist of what's happening.

That is the lamest cop out. 

Because you can’t show in physics nor in math how an object can accelerate from low pressure into high pressure and resistance without a force like gravity.


So.  You claim my weight is the column of the air pressure pushing down on me. 



So.  I was on a sub.  I can post we were at a depth of 200 feet.  We had scales to measure our weight underway. Sometimes the sub was less than atmospheric pressure in the inside depending on what evolutions we ran. (14.4 psia vs 14.7 Pisa, still a good amount of change if all your weight supply comes from atmosphere) The sub was only about 30 foot in diameter.  The scales were on the middle deck. If the scales were centerline, only 10 foot of atmosphere above my head.  And I still weighed 220 pounds.  Why is it my weight was independent from the actual height of the atmospheric column I stand in, and changes in atmospheric pressure on the sub.

Because I have enough mass, my weight is driven by gravity, not atmosphere.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2024, 10:40:11 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1073 on: January 27, 2024, 11:55:55 AM »
What comes first?
The force causes the mass to accelerate.

If I ignore air resistance then there's no experiment.
Sure there is.
A big part about making USEFUL models is that you need to determine when they apply, and not making them some complex they are useless to use.

This includes knowing what effects will be insignificant and can be ignored.

Of course there
No, there isn't.
But you refuse to accept this fact because it kills your delusional fantasy.
Again, if we remove gravity what we have is the air pressure above the object which is a LOWER PRESSURE than the air pressure below the object.
There is no way for this air to push the object down.

Your delusional garbage has no explanation for why things falls.

So your delusional garbage has no chance of killing gravity.

Gravity works, your garbage doesn't.

The atmosphere stacks to end up with higher (below) to lower (above) pressure from the floor up, based on that stacking system, which you can't grasp.
We understand that the atmosphere has a pressure gradient.
We also understand that this is caused by gravity.

What you refuse to understand is that you have no explanation for why it does this, nor how that low pressure air above the object magically pushes the object down.

No need. All you need is to be able to grasp explanations and you can't.
Perhaps because you continue to refuse to provide them.

We can go back to the simple case.
We have a ball in mid-air.
It has higher pressure air below and lower pressure air above.
How does this low pressure air above the ball push it down into the higher pressure below, overcoming that greater pressure?
Note - this explanation MUST explain how low pressure overcomes high pressure, one of the things you say is impossible.

It's not a lie.
It is a lie.
You continue to pretend that everyone other than you is a brainwashed fool that just blindly accepts whatever BS they have been told and that they know nothing at all.

You do this to entirely dismiss arguments they make because you cannot refute them.

Not for you because I know you have no ability nor wish to do so...but for those who want to, which don't include frenzied global Earthers like yourself and Jackie and co.
And another pathetic lie.

Again, the issue is not if we want to understand or not.
It is if you are capable of explaining with your delusional fantasy.
You are not capable. That is why you resort to these cheap insults.

Do you think wind forces could offer up a scale imbalance to offer up a reading of less or even more of your mass on that plate?
Yes, which is why accurate balances are enclosed to stop as much wind as possible.

But notice how this entirely fails to address the issue.
If you need to rely upon the wind to explain why things fall, then you need the wind pushing things down.
This downwards force would then be based upon the wind, and people would be trivially blown around by the wind.

You know what you are saying is BS which doesn't address the issue, but you insist on offering up something as a trick.

No need for an equation. The only need is for people to get the gist of what's happening.
If you want your model to be accurate and useful, then you need equations.

Resorting to just getting the gist is what dishonest conmen do because they know their BS doesn't withstand scrutiny.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1074 on: January 28, 2024, 03:30:09 AM »

No need for an equation. The only need is for people to get the gist of what's happening.

If you post again.  It’s a fairly easy debunking of your delusion.

Where I live, you claim sixty miles of atmospheric column above me drives my weight of 220 lbs?

So.  Why in a submarine, under the water, isolated from the atmosphere above the ocean, why did I still weigh 220 pounds with only 10 feet of atmospheric column above me?  Often with pressure slightly less than 14.7 psia?

Why didn’t I weigh equal to 10 feet / 316,800 feet * 220 lbs? 


What is the rhyme and reason, the mathematical expression in your delusion of weight vs hight of atmospheric column?  Especially if you think only atmosphere drives weight. 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 03:31:43 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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Timeisup

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1075 on: February 02, 2024, 12:29:20 AM »


It's not a lie.

It is your lie.  You can’t debate actual models so you have to create a lie that changes the subject and takes the focus of the failures of your delusion.

Again..

Please write out the equation for your delusion on how without the force of gravity an object accelerates down from low pressure high up into the resistance of greater pressure below.
No need for an equation. The only need is for people to get the gist of what's happening.

The problem that you and your flat earth mates never stop to think about or consider is the evidence of the real world all around you that was built on the very principles you reject.
All the constructs of the modern world, bridges, buildings, power stations, computers...you name them, basically everything was all designed and built using principles and laws you reject.

The question is how can that be?

If what you say is correct many of these things would just not work.

You maintain for exile that vacuums do not exist. Not because you have proof of that. The very fact that many many industrial processes require the use of vacuums does not alter what you think.

Self believers such as yourself operate on no more than self belief. The evidence and truth of the world working before your eyes despite what you think and believe means nothing to you, as you are the epitome of what Jack Black believes...personal thought is all. Its true because I think it.
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1076 on: February 02, 2024, 03:27:09 AM »

 as you are the epitome of what Jack Black believes...

How does jack become subject of every thread to you?



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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1077 on: February 02, 2024, 01:23:05 PM »
as you are the epitome of what Jack Black believes...personal thought is all. Its true because I think it.
You really are butthurt aren't you?
Still desperate to go around the forums lying about me.

Like a jaded ex that needs to lie about their former partner to pretend they aren't the bad one.

Grow up, move on.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1078 on: February 12, 2024, 06:39:58 AM »
Quote
The problem that you and your flat earth mates never stop to think about or consider is the evidence of the real world all around you that was built on the very principles you reject.
All the constructs of the modern world, bridges, buildings, power stations, computers...you name them, basically everything was all designed and built using principles and laws you reject.

Is that so? If a bridge encounters too much tension, say you're building the posts on ground that leans too much in or out, even the fact that you have various bracers won't help. It is forced apart. If you were to build a complex right on the middle of a hill, it would likewise slowly rip itself apart.



Cities are not designed to be built on hills.

So your great theory implies there are hills that are too subtle for us to notice, created by the curvature. Yet, I can easily make an electric line that gives off a signal from a cell tower nearby, while any attempt to build all this infrastructure on a round Earth is immediate disaster. All modern buildings, bridges, power stations, computers... work better when constructed on a flat and level surface. "Satellites" work better when not in space, but somewhere you can fly to. Everything designed operates on far simpler principles than gravity. These principles are covered under architecture and engineering.

If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #1079 on: February 12, 2024, 01:01:39 PM »
Is that so? If a bridge encounters too much tension, say you're building the posts on ground that leans too much in or out, even the fact that you have various bracers won't help. It is forced apart. If you were to build a complex right on the middle of a hill, it would likewise slowly rip itself apart.
Notice a key part? TOO MUCH.

If it is insignificant, then it wont be a problem.

Likewise, plenty of complexes were built on hills, and are still standing fine.
What you need is stable foundations.

But the principles in questions are things like gravity and geometry.

any attempt to build all this infrastructure on a round Earth is immediate disaster.
Based on what?

All modern buildings, bridges, power stations, computers... work better when constructed on a flat and level surface.
And if Earth was flat, that would be great. But we don't live on a flat Earth, and all these structures work fine on a round Earth as well.

"Satellites" work better when not in space
No, they work much better in space, where they don't need fuel to stay up because they are in orbit, and they are kept well out of the way of weather, and the batteries need to last for only a short period.

The trade-off is between a geostationary orbit, keeping them fixed in place relative to Earth, but a higher latency and poor angles for lots of places.
Or you can have it in a lower orbit, meaning the direction to it will keep changing and you will need a constellation, but lower latency and the potential for better angles if the constellation has enough units.