NASA EPIC LIES

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rabinoz

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #810 on: July 10, 2020, 07:52:52 AM »
Next idiot, huh? Tycho Brache. Talk about a compromised intellect. What a dope!

So, Tycho was all for all the other planets in our solar system orbiting the sun, with the only exception being Earth. Somehow, not only does the sun orbit the earth, but so do all the other planets. 

How does that make sense in any way, shape, or form?

You are saying our entire solar system orbits around Earth.

All observations from planet Earth dispute this moronic theory, cikljamas.


Tycho is no idiot. He did produce more precise model of universe than Ptolemy did back anacient times
He was no idiot but still wrong because he did not have a telescope so his measurements were not precise enough.

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JJA

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #811 on: July 10, 2020, 08:02:58 AM »
Next idiot, huh? Tycho Brache. Talk about a compromised intellect. What a dope!

So, Tycho was all for all the other planets in our solar system orbiting the sun, with the only exception being Earth. Somehow, not only does the sun orbit the earth, but so do all the other planets. 

How does that make sense in any way, shape, or form?

You are saying our entire solar system orbits around Earth.

All observations from planet Earth dispute this moronic theory, cikljamas.


Tycho is no idiot. He did produce more precise model of universe than Ptolemy did back anacient times

We are not in ancient times however.

I have a box on my desk. I know more about what's inside than you do because I can look in it and you can't. Does it mean I'm smarter than you? No. It just means I have access to better information.

Same with Tycho. He certainly was very good at what he did, but he didn't even have a basic telescope. His information was very limited, and he did the best he could. His arguments were made 500 years ago, and we have learned much more since then.

We have huge telescopes orbiting the planet now, radio telescopes, solar observatories, not to mention having sent robots to other worlds to take pictures. We know so much more than Tycho ever did, and that's why we can say he is wrong. We can look in the box, he couldn't.

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Smoke Machine

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #812 on: July 10, 2020, 07:03:12 PM »
Relax, peeps!

Obviously if Tycho Brahe was as famous as he was, he was no moron. In his day, he was well regarded. Besides, he was an alchemist, so full points just there! I was just exaggerating to get up cikljamas nose.

Cikljamas, who prefers to cite an astronomer who died over 400 years ago, over modern day astronomers. For all his achievements, Brahe had one glaring error in his work, which cikljamas claims to be his one greatest discovery.

No, cikljamas, the whole universe does not revolve around you, despite your protests to the contrary. I'll bet you've heard this a lot in your personal life.
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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cikljamas

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #813 on: July 11, 2020, 03:02:32 AM »
Relax, peeps!

Obviously if Tycho Brahe was as famous as he was, he was no moron. In his day, he was well regarded. Besides, he was an alchemist, so full points just there! I was just exaggerating to get up cikljamas nose.

Cikljamas, who prefers to cite an astronomer who died over 400 years ago, over modern day astronomers. For all his achievements, Brahe had one glaring error in his work, which cikljamas claims to be his one greatest discovery.

No, cikljamas, the whole universe does not revolve around you, despite your protests to the contrary. I'll bet you've heard this a lot in your personal life.

Up your nose is not the same thing as Up yours, is it? So, feel free to up yours. :)
The whole universe does not revolve around me, the whole universe revolves around Bill Gates, and you don't care about it, do you?

The problem :



The solution :


For  the  geocentric  universe  to  be  permitted,  Newton  stipulated  that  an  additional  force  outside  the  solar  system  must  work  in  tandem  with  the  gravitational  forces  inside  the  solar  system.  Several  modern  physicists  have  acknowledged  Newton’s  alternative,  one  of  them  being  the  Nobel  laureate,  Steven  Weinberg. Here is how Weinberg describes it in his 2015 book, To Explain the World:

If  we  were  to  adopt  a  frame  of  reference  like  Tycho’s  in  which  the  Earth  is  at  rest,  then  the  distant galaxies would seem to be executing circular turns once a year, and in general relativity this enormous motion would create forces akin to gravitation, which would act on the Sun and planets and give them the motions of the Tychonic theory. Newton seems to have had a hint of this.  In  an  unpublished  ‘Proposition  43’  that  did  not  make  it  into  the  PrincipiaNewton  acknowledges that Tycho’s theory could be true if some other force besides ordinary gravitation acted on the Sun and planets.

Weinberg’s reference to “forces akin to gravitation” refers to inertial forces, such as centrifugal, Coriolis and Euler forces. Using Einstein’s General Relativity as the sanction, Weinberg indicates that, in the view of modern physics, a universe rotating around a fixed Earth will create inertial forces that mimic the force of  gravity.  Then,  as  the  universe’s  inertial  forces  meet  the  gravitational  forces  in  our  solar  system,  both  will contribute to how the sun and planets will move with respect to each other. The forces will counteract each other and create a balance. We will show how this works later in this critique.   

Weinberg  also  notes  that  the  inclusion  of  forces  outside  the  solar  system  that  will  allow  Tychonian  geocentrism are specified in Newton’s Proposition 43, which was originally planned to be added to page 510, the last page of The Principia. In Proposition 43 Newton says:

In order for the Earth to be at rest in the center of the system of the Sun, Planets, and Comets, there  is  required  both  universal  gravity  and  another  force  in  addition  that  acts  on  all  bodies  equally  according  to  the  quantity  of  matter  in  each  of  them  and  is  equal  and  opposite  to  the  accelerative gravity with which the Earth tends to the Sun...

For,  such  a  force,  acting  on  all  bodies  equally  and  along  parallel  lines,  does  not  change  their  position among themselves, and permits bodies to move among themselves through the force of universal gravity in the same way as if it were not acting on them.   

Since this force is equal and opposite to its gravity toward the Sun, the Earth can truly remain in equilibrium between these two forces and be at rest.  And thus celestial bodies can move around the Earth at rest, as in the Tychonic system.


Whereas  today  some  physicists  wishing  to  advance  geokineticism  seek  to  confine  Newton’s  physics  to  the solar system and thereby exclude any external forces coming from the universe, this results in having to regard inertial forces as “fictitious”; mere effects that only appear when objects are accelerated. 

Conversely,  by  expanding  Newton’s  mechanics  to  the  rest  of  the  universe  –  which,  in  Newton’s  case,  means  that  his  Absolute  Space  will  now  rotate  around  a  fixed  Earth  –  the  inertial  forces  created  by  the  rotation  are  real  forces  that  are  caused  by  the  mass  in  the  universe.  In  other  words,  they  are  forces  that  actually cause things to accelerate, rather than being merely effects of acceleration.

In this way, the universe’s inertial forces contribute to the movement of everything from the revolutions of the celestial bodies to the directions of hurricanes on Earth and the turning of the Foucault Pendulum. Inertial forces will likewise pull the planets around the sun, and pull the sun and moon around the Earth.

As  noted  in  Newton’s  Proposition  43,  all  of  these  movements  are  permitted  by  Newton’s  physics  and  confirmed  by  modern  physics.  In  fact,  having  real  inertial  forces  is  better  for  Newtonian  physics,  since  without  them  Newton  never  possessed  a  physical  explanation  for  what  causes  the  planets  to  continue  to  accelerate around the sun without eventually being pulled into the sun.

In addition to Newton’s Proposition 43 allowing a geocentric universe, his mechanics also show that the Earth will have no inclination to rotate. When the gravitational and inertial forces are balanced around a center of mass, they cannot generate a torque, and thus the Earth will remain absolutely motionless. This state of rest is calculated in the below equation. As noted by one science reference:

If the reference point R is chosen so that it is the center of mass, then the resultant torque (T) is zero. Because the resultant torque is zero the body will move as though it is a particle with its mass concentrated at the center of mass. By selecting the center of gravity as the reference point for a rigid body, the gravity forces will not cause the body to rotate, which means the weight of the body can be considered to be concentrated at the center of mass.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 06:17:29 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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Smoke Machine

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #814 on: July 11, 2020, 04:52:34 AM »
Cikljamas, make yourself a little scale model of the solar system. Now, keep the Earth stationary, and rotate the sun around it. The other planets in the solar system keep orbiting the sun, at their respective distances also, yes? So, make it happen. Play God.

Which hits Earth first - Mercury or Mars?

Now, with both hands, pat yourself down, and explain how, if Tycho's theory is true, how you and the rest of this planet hasn't been smashed to smithereans by other planets in our own solar system?

Oh, and ah, no. I don't care about Bill Gates.
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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rvlvr

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #815 on: July 11, 2020, 05:21:26 AM »
So Bill Gates is the latest thing sick ass llamas is trying sneak in?

I’d prepare for asinine YouTube videos and barely coherent clips of some longer bodies of rant related to Gates and Microsoft.

Let us see if cikljamas will disappoint us.

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JJA

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #816 on: July 11, 2020, 05:31:46 AM »
Relax, peeps!

Obviously if Tycho Brahe was as famous as he was, he was no moron. In his day, he was well regarded. Besides, he was an alchemist, so full points just there! I was just exaggerating to get up cikljamas nose.

Cikljamas, who prefers to cite an astronomer who died over 400 years ago, over modern day astronomers. For all his achievements, Brahe had one glaring error in his work, which cikljamas claims to be his one greatest discovery.

No, cikljamas, the whole universe does not revolve around you, despite your protests to the contrary. I'll bet you've heard this a lot in your personal life.

Up your nose is not the same thing as Up yours, is it? So, feel free to up yours. :)
The whole universe does not revolve around me, the whole universe revolves around Bill Gates, and you don't care about it, do you?

For  the  geocentric  universe  to  be  permitted,  Newton  stipulated  that  an  additional  force  outside  the  solar  system  must  work  in  tandem  with  the  gravitational  forces  inside  the  solar  system.  Several  modern  physicists  have  acknowledged  Newton’s  alternative,  one  of  them  being  the  Nobel  laureate,  Steven  Weinberg. Here is how Weinberg describes it in his 2015 book, To Explain the World:

Blah blah blah.

Yet again you just post a quote you stole from the internet, not attributing it or even indicating that the only thing you wrote in that entire post yourself was your insult.

This time you stole from a Bible based creationist. Not a scientific paper or peer reviewed, just a random guy ranting at the internet.

Do you ever have a thought of your own, or do you just steal videos and content paste it?

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rabinoz

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #817 on: July 11, 2020, 05:34:57 AM »

For  the  geocentric  universe  to  be  permitted,  Newton  stipulated  that  an  additional  force  outside  the  solar  system  must  work  in  tandem  with  the  gravitational  forces  inside  the  solar  system.  Several  modern  physicists  have  acknowledged  Newton’s  alternative,  one  of  them  being  the  Nobel  laureate,  Steven  Weinberg. Here is how Weinberg describes it in his 2015 book, To Explain the World:
I suggest that you reread what Newton wrote! He did not mention "Universe"

Quote from: cikljamas
If  we  were  to  adopt  a  frame  of  reference  like  Tycho’s  in  which  the  Earth  is  at  rest,  then  the  distant galaxies would seem to be executing circular turns once a year,
No, they would not!

Quote from: cikljamas
Weinberg’s reference to “forces akin to gravitation” refers to inertial forces, such as centrifugal, Coriolis and Euler forces. Using Einstein’s General Relativity as the sanction, Weinberg indicates that, in the view of modern physics, a universe rotating around a fixed Earth will create inertial forces that mimic the force of  gravity.  Then,  as  the  universe’s  inertial  forces  meet  the  gravitational  forces  in  our  solar  system,  both  will contribute to how the sun and planets will move with respect to each other. The forces will counteract each other and create a balance. We will show how this works later in this critique.   

Try reading what Newton really said in Proposition 43:
Quote
In order for the Earth to be at rest in the center of the system of the Sun, Planets, and Comets, there  is  required  both  universal  gravity  and  another  force  in  addition  that  acts  on  all  bodies  equally  according  to  the  quantity  of  matter  in  each  of  them  and  is  equal  and  opposite  to  the  accelerative gravity with which the Earth tends to the Sun...
He did not say: "In order for the Earth to be at rest in the center of the Universe"! That's a whole new "kettle of fish".

Then fix you erroneous claims and try again.

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Code-Beta1234

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #818 on: July 11, 2020, 05:54:23 AM »
But man he quoted won Nobel prize!

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cikljamas

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #819 on: July 11, 2020, 06:51:35 AM »
If  we  were  to  adopt  a  frame  of  reference  like  Tycho’s  in  which  the  Earth  is  at  rest,  then  the  distant galaxies would seem to be executing circular turns once a year,
No, they would not!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 06:53:47 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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cikljamas

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #820 on: July 11, 2020, 07:07:02 AM »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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sokarul

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #821 on: July 11, 2020, 07:21:55 AM »
Did you explain why you changed Neil Armstrong’s quote?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #822 on: July 11, 2020, 09:10:45 AM »
Several  modern  physicists  have  acknowledged  Newton’s  alternative,  one  of  them  being  the  Nobel  laureate,  Steven  Weinberg. Here is how Weinberg describes it in his 2015 book, To Explain the World:

Quick question:  what shape did Weinberg think the earth was?  Do you agree with him?
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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Code-Beta1234

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #823 on: July 11, 2020, 10:22:11 AM »
Several  modern  physicists  have  acknowledged  Newton’s  alternative,  one  of  them  being  the  Nobel  laureate,  Steven  Weinberg. Here is how Weinberg describes it in his 2015 book, To Explain the World:

Quick question:  what shape did Weinberg think the earth was?  Do you agree with him?

Ehhh, clickie is geocentrist Globe Earther. NOT flat Earther

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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #824 on: July 11, 2020, 11:35:25 AM »
Several  modern  physicists  have  acknowledged  Newton’s  alternative,  one  of  them  being  the  Nobel  laureate,  Steven  Weinberg. Here is how Weinberg describes it in his 2015 book, To Explain the World:

Quick question:  what shape did Weinberg think the earth was?  Do you agree with him?

Ehhh, clickie is geocentrist Globe Earther. NOT flat Earther
Steven  Weinberg did not think the earth was the centre of the universe, that's horseshit.  However, my point is that if silkpyjamas is going to bring scientists in to support his claims in an appeal to authority, then you can't ignore the rest of that scientist's views. 
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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rabinoz

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #825 on: July 11, 2020, 12:06:21 PM »
If  we  were  to  adopt  a  frame  of  reference  like  Tycho’s  in  which  the  Earth  is  at  rest,  then  the  distant galaxies would seem to be executing circular turns once a year,
No, they would not! It would be daily!
https://i.postimg.cc/ZKKC4VpC/NEWTON-1-2-3-X.png
<< It is polite to always give the author of any quotion you use - here your Robert Sungenis. >>
Only if you fully accept Mach's Principle in full and few do accept it. Mach's Principle was only a "principle" and was never justified.

And virtually all physicists, astronomers, cosmologists etc reject Mach's Principle.
Few of those would suggest a completely stationary Earth!

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JackBlack

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #826 on: July 11, 2020, 03:02:40 PM »
And still no justification of your wild claims about the shuttle and her crew.

For  the  geocentric  universe  to  be  permitted
You need pure magic holding Earth to the centre of the universe with no forces allowed to move it.
You then need more pure magic to explain why everything circles (and circle not orbit) Earth, in such a crazy motion such that it appears just like what you would expect if Earth actually orbited the sun and rotated on its axis.

There is no sane reason at all to believe in a GC universe.

But man he quoted won Nobel prize!
Care to provide the full quote?

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Code-Beta1234

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #827 on: July 11, 2020, 03:25:00 PM »
Several  modern  physicists  have  acknowledged  Newton’s  alternative,  one  of  them  being  the  Nobel  laureate,  Steven  Weinberg. Here is how Weinberg describes it in his 2015 book, To Explain the World:

Quick question:  what shape did Weinberg think the earth was?  Do you agree with him?

Ehhh, clickie is geocentrist Globe Earther. NOT flat Earther
Steven  Weinberg did not think the earth was the centre of the universe, that's horseshit.  However, my point is that if silkpyjamas is going to bring scientists in to support his claims in an appeal to authority, then you can't ignore the rest of that scientist's views.

You asked for shape. Clickie is globe Earther

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rabinoz

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #828 on: July 11, 2020, 05:02:04 PM »
But man he quoted won Nobel prize!
Really! Sure, Steven Weinberg won the Nobell prize, so what?
He'd be horrified at what you and Cikljamas are using his writing for!

But Cikljamas did not directly quote Steven Weinberg but quoted a piece from (in)famous geocentrist Robert Sungenis. Cikljamas does not admit this But he did!

Now read what Steven Weinberg wrote on General Relativity!
Weinberg S. Gravitation And Cosmology.. Principles And Applications Of The General Theory Of Relativity ( Wiley, 1972)( ISBN 0471925675).
Read it on-line for free or download it.

Steven Weinberg could be said to have "written-the-book" on General Relativity.

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Smoke Machine

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #829 on: July 11, 2020, 08:47:20 PM »
But man he quoted won Nobel prize!


Hows your little model of our solar system coming along, with all planets orbiting the sun, except earth, with the sun orbiting earth?
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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rvlvr

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #830 on: July 11, 2020, 10:28:17 PM »
It will be posted when he sees a YouTube video someone has done.

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cikljamas

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #831 on: July 12, 2020, 02:56:41 AM »
You need pure magic holding Earth to the centre of the universe with no forces allowed to move it.
You then need more pure magic to explain why everything circles (and circle not orbit) Earth, in such a crazy motion such that it appears just like what you would expect if Earth actually orbited the sun and rotated on its axis.

There is no sane reason at all to believe in a GC universe.

If you walk upside down in relation to me, and if i walk upside down in relation to you, does it mean that we have to conclude (despite the evidence) that the earth is flat, just because walking upside down is absurd notion?

So, if something is counterintuitive (at the first, or even second glance, maybe not on third, though) to you, it doesn't mean that it can't be true. Just because you don't understand something, it doesn't mean it isn't so. Just because you can't see something, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

The influential theologian and philosopher Saint Augustine, one of the four Great Church Fathers of the Western Church, objected to the "fable" of an inhabited Antipodes:

    But as to the fable that there are Antipodes, that is to say, men on the opposite side of the Earth, where the sun rises when it sets to us, men who walk with their feet opposite ours that is on no ground credible. And, indeed, it is not affirmed that this has been learned by historical knowledge, but by scientific conjecture, on the ground that the Earth is suspended within the concavity of the sky, and that it has as much room on the one side of it as on the other: hence they say that the part that is beneath must also be inhabited. But they do not remark that, although it be supposed or scientifically demonstrated that the world is of a round and spherical form, yet it does not follow that the other side of the Earth is bare of water; nor even, though it be bare, does it immediately follow that it is peopled. For Scripture, which proves the truth of its historical statements by the accomplishment of its prophecies, gives no false information; and it is too absurd to say, that some men might have taken ship and traversed the whole wide ocean, and crossed from this side of the world to the other, and that thus even the inhabitants of that distant region are descended from that one first man.

Tycho's  parting  challenge  to Rothmann  to "cite  any text you have
from  the  holy  oracles  or  their  commentators  that  supports  the Copernican
assertion
"  (VI, 186)  is, on the one hand,  a rhetorical  ploy;  indeed  Tycho
adds  immediately: "I  know  this well  enough  that  Augustine,  the  only  one
you name,  never  conceded  the annual  or diurnal  motion  of the  earth;  not
being  much  of a mathematician,  he questioned  the very  roundness  of the
earth  by denying  the antipodes"
  (VI, 186)

On the other hand it is a big question as to which model is more counterintuitive to human mind, GC or HC model? Here is once short excerpt taken from one GC/HC discussion :

DP: On the geocentric model being “simpler”: Again, I have to disagree. The geocentrist doesn’t have just “one moving part” in his model. He still has to account for all the other motions and phenomena in the universe via the normal laws of gravity, so
moons orbit planets and planets orbit stars and the massive ones all spin on their axes and so on.

RS: Yes, but the geocentric system is still the simpler. Your system requires the Earth to rotate on its axis and to revolve around the sun. So right from the get-go you have a very fragile system, since a small spinning and revolving Earth is going to run into all kinds of problems with opposing forces that seek to slow it down, as opposed to a huge universe in the geocentric system that only has to spiral, but has enough momentum to do so without being appreciably curtailed by opposing forces.

Your sun then has to perform a similar task to your Earth, by revolving around the Milky Way and seeking to maintain its velocity amidst all the opposing forces it will encounter in that trip. The Milky Way itself is said to be revolving around another cluster of galaxies and/or expanding outward and thus it must be able to fight its way through all the opposing forces it meets. (And, we must add that, if the universe is expanding, then why aren’t the galaxies expanding internally but always stay the same size?)

IN ADDITION :

“Go out on a starry night and walk alone for half an hour, resolutely assuming that the pre-Copernican astronomy is true. Look up at the sky with that assumption in your mind. The real difference between living in that universe and living in ours will then, I predict, begin to dawn on you.” --- Clive Staples Lewis (1898 – 1963) - Studies in Medieval and Renaissance Literature, 1966, p. 47

Hows your little model of our solar system coming along, with all planets orbiting the sun, except earth, with the sun orbiting earth?

The heliocentric versus geocentric debate did not originate with Galileo, or even with Copernicus or Ptolemy. Long before Galileo met his match with the Catholic Church, the battle was between the sun-centered model of the Babylonians and the earth-centered model of the Hebrews described in Genesis.

The Babylonians were avid astronomers who believed that the sun god controlled the world, and naturally the sun occupied the center of the universe. They discovered the saros, which they used in predicting lunar eclipses. In fact, many centuries later the Greek astronomer Hipparchus published a star catalogue taken from the Babylonians but written as if it were made from his own observations.

The next combatants were the Indian cosmologists versus the continuing Hebrew tradition, specifically from the book Joshua, although the Indians had both geocentrists and heliocentrists in their tradition.

By the time of the Greeks,cosmology was much more sophisticated as mathematics, philosophy, and experimentation were added to the debate.

Some evidence of heliocentrism is found in the Vedic Sanskrits, the main text of Hinduism and most likely the oldest surviving religious texts. The word “Veda” means“knowledge” and/or “sacred book.” Subhash Kak writes: “The theory that the sun was the ‘lotus’ [the central point] of the sky and that it kept the worlds together by its ‘strings of wind’ may have given rise to the heliocentric tradition in India.”

The Shatapatha Brahmana from the Upanishad era in the 9th century B.C., states: “The sun strings these worlds, [the earth, the planets, the atmosphere], to himself on a thread. This thread is the same as the wind” (8:7:3:10). (Astronomy Across Cultures: The History of Non-Western Astronomy, ed., Helaine Selin, 2000, p. 328).

Kak also points out, however, that the earlier Indian astronomers adopted geocentrism: “The concepts of śīghrocca and mandocca cycles indicate that the motion of the planets was fundamentally around the sun, which, in turn, went around the earth….The śīghrocca maps the motion of the planet around the sun to the corresponding set of points around the earth. The sun, with its winds that holds the solar system together, goes around the earth” (ibid ., p. 329). The model in which the planets revolve around the sun but the sun revolves around the Earth would be the same model propounded by Tycho Brahe.

As Tycho Brahe said to Jewish astronomer David Gans: “Your sages were wrong to submit to the non-Jewish scholars. They assented to a lie for the truth lay with the Jewish sages” (André Neher, Jewish Thought and the Scientific Revolution of the Sixteenth Century: David Gans (1541-1613) and His Times, trans. by David Maisel, 1986, p. 218).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 03:04:50 AM by cikljamas »
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rabinoz

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #832 on: July 12, 2020, 03:40:48 AM »
You need pure magic holding Earth to the centre of the universe with no forces allowed to move it.
You then need more pure magic to explain why everything circles (and circle not orbit) Earth, in such a crazy motion such that it appears just like what you would expect if Earth actually orbited the sun and rotated on its axis.

There is no sane reason at all to believe in a GC universe.
<< Nothing worth wasting time over. >>
Your geocentric Universe simply has no basis!
You seem to claim that Scripture teaches a geocentric system but many others claim that Scripture also teaches a flat Earth so who is right?

I wrote this much earlier:
The Scriptures were presented to a people who believed the earth flat and would probably have been quite confused had the Scriptures presented "Modern Science".
But what is "Modern Science"? "Modern Science" changed through the millennia so the Scriptures do not try to teach any "Modern Science".

You might read, Does scripture teach a Flat Earth Cosmology?


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
But what I do not agree with is that Scripture is intended to spoon-feed us with the "Theory of Everything".
Mankind has been given the ability to find this knowledge from studying "Nature".

Galileo was, of course, referring to Geocentrism vs Heliocentrism issue but on this issue he argued that God wrote two books
[/i]:
Quote from: Kelly James Clark
Science and Religion: Two Books
Galileo argued that God has written two books — the Book of Nature and the Book of Scripture — and that these two books do not, because they cannot, contradict. That means that if one has a well-established scientific explanation of the physical world that seems to contradict a passage of Scripture, one has good reason to reconsider one’s interpretation of Scripture. The surface meaning of the Bible may not be its true meaning.
<< see the rest for more detail >>

Galileo's letter can be found at: Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina of Tuscany (1615) (abridged) by Galileo Galilei

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JackBlack

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #833 on: July 12, 2020, 04:38:44 AM »
And still no justification for your claims of the Shuttle and her crew.

If you walk upside down in relation to me, and if i walk upside down in relation to you, does it mean that we have to conclude (despite the evidence) that the earth is flat, just because walking upside down is absurd notion?
No, due to the mountains of evidence to support the fact that Earth is round. Walking upside down is only absurd when relative to the local direction of down.

That in no way helps your case.
There is plenty of reason to think Earth is round. There are mountains of evidence supporting it.
But your GC fantasy has nothing more than extreme arrogance, special pleading and wishful thinking.

Yes, but the geocentric system is still the simpler.
No, it isn't.
You have basically everything the standard model has in terms of forces, and then throw in pure magic to hold Earth fixed in place.
You need to have Earthquakes on Earth cause changes in the rotational speed of the entire universe.
You need to have the tidal effects of the moon cause changes in the rotational speed of the entire universe.
You need to force Earth to be special with no justification at all.

You have the entire universe rotating around Earth, at much greater speeds, and all the problems you pretend Earth has, applies just as much to all the other planets and celestial objects.

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cikljamas

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #834 on: July 12, 2020, 05:11:36 AM »
Yes, but the geocentric system is still the simpler.
No, it isn't.
You have basically everything the standard model has in terms of forces, and then throw in pure magic to hold Earth fixed in place.
You need to have Earthquakes on Earth cause changes in the rotational speed of the entire universe.
You need to have the tidal effects of the moon cause changes in the rotational speed of the entire universe.
You need to force Earth to be special with no justification at all.

You have the entire universe rotating around Earth, at much greater speeds, and all the problems you pretend Earth has, applies just as much to all the other planets and celestial objects.

You are an expert in distorting (perverting/turning upside down) the facts.

2. Geokinetics is not the best way to understand the physics. In fact, the geocentric
system makes more sense. For example, in the geokinetic system, the Earth has to rotate
exactly 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds to keep sidereal time.
How can it do so when so many  inertial  forces  (e.g., earthquakes,  tsunamis,  volcanoes, etc.)
are  impeding  its  rotation?
Venus, which does rotate, has slowed its rate
by 6 minutes in the last few years.
 

Likewise,  in  the geokinetic system, the Earth has  to revolve around the sun exactly  in 365.25
days. How does it do so in the face of the inertial forces it undergoes internally, as well as the
cosmic forces and planetary perturbations it incurs externally? Geocentrism has a much better
explanation. The sidereal rate can stay exactly as it is due to the tremendous momentum that
a massive rotating universe will produce. Like a giant  flywheel,  the universe keeps  turning at
the same rate year after year, and nothing is able to slow it down. (Later we will address the
claims that the Earth has slowed its rotation). As for Newton and Einstein, geocentrism
can use both a rotating Earth in a fixed universe or a fixed Earth in a rotating universe, if desired, since
all we need to do is invert the equations, as Einstein himself did.


READ MORE : https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=80229.msg2169123#msg2169123
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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JJA

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #835 on: July 12, 2020, 05:15:41 AM »
2. Geokinetics is not the best way to understand the physics. In fact, the geocentric
system makes more sense. For example, in the geokinetic system, the Earth has to rotate
exactly 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds to keep sidereal time.
How can it do so when so many  inertial  forces  (e.g., earthquakes,  tsunamis,  volcanoes, etc.)
are  impeding  its  rotation?
Venus, which does rotate, has slowed its rate
by 6 minutes in the last few years.
 

Instead of acting bewildered and confused by the world, you could always look up answers to your questions before simply stating them as proof that the world is full of lies simply because you can't understand how anything works.  ::)

Start with understanding how inertia works.

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cikljamas

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #836 on: July 12, 2020, 05:31:56 AM »
Start with understanding how inertia works.

Instead of acting bewildered and confused by the world, you could always look up answers to your questions before simply stating them as proof that the world is full of lies simply because you can't understand how anything works.  ::)

Start with understanding my Concorde argument and if and when (if ever) you finally get it right, then (and only then) you will come to understand inertia problem, at last:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=86036.msg2258399#msg2258399
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=86036.msg2258514#msg2258514
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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Smoke Machine

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Re: NASA EPIC LIES
« Reply #837 on: July 12, 2020, 05:49:49 AM »
Cikljamas, can you explain how a tsunami, earthquake, or volcano, can impede Earth's rotation on it's axis?  While your at it, refresh my memory as to what your Concorde argument is?

Cikljamas, why dont you concede that the size of the universe is beyond human comprehension, no matter what numbers the scientists put on its size, and the centre of the universe is therefore subjective? Your problem solved!  There is no objective centre of the universe.

Therefore, at any moment in time, you can choose when and where the centre of the universe is. So, you being on a ball, rotating on it's axis as it careens in its orbit around our sun, doesn't change that subjectivity one little bit. Just like Einstein's relativity.

Does that provide your existential way of thinking, any comfort?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 05:51:32 AM by Smoke Machine »
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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JJA

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #838 on: July 12, 2020, 05:59:56 AM »
Start with understanding how inertia works.

Instead of acting bewildered and confused by the world, you could always look up answers to your questions before simply stating them as proof that the world is full of lies simply because you can't understand how anything works.  ::)

Start with understanding my Concorde argument and if and when (if ever) you finally get it right, then (and only then) you will come to understand inertia problem, at last:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=86036.msg2258399#msg2258399
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=86036.msg2258514#msg2258514

There is no Concorde problem.

The only problem is your inability to understand the world, and concluding that if it confuses you, it must be all fake and lies.


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rabinoz

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Re: cikljamas EPIC LIES
« Reply #839 on: July 12, 2020, 06:59:11 AM »
2. Geokinetics is not the best way to understand the physics. In fact, the geocentric
system makes more sense. For example, in the geokinetic system, the Earth has to rotate
exactly 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds to keep sidereal time.
How can it do so when so many  inertial  forces  (e.g., earthquakes,  tsunamis,  volcanoes, etc.)
are  impeding  its  rotation?
Venus, which does rotate, has slowed its rate by 6 minutes in the last few years. 
The Earth does NOT have to "rotate exactly 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds to keep sidereal time".

The Earth does rotate once in 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds and that determines sidereal time.

But the Earth's rotation rate is slowing measurably!

Quote from: cikljamas
Likewise,  in  the geokinetic system, the Earth has  to revolve around the sun exactly  in 365.25
days. How does it do so in the face of the inertial forces it undergoes internally, as well as the
cosmic forces and planetary perturbations it incurs externally?
Likewise you're talking ignorant hogwash here! The Earth does NOT orbit the Sun in 365.25
days!
I guess your mean the Calendar year which is NOT the period the Earth orbits the Sun and the Tropical or Calendar year is about 365.242189 days.

Not only that but, I believe we went through this whole affair in April 2019 so why raise the same thing again?

Really, you are simply so ignorant on simple matters like this that you're wasting everybody's time even discussing it!

You're a useless waste of time!