Brexit

I remember when the EU first coagulated. Way back when.
My first thought was, "Who the hell would vote for more government?"

if we leave we will still have those mostly in place but have no say in the formulation.

When, rather than if. The rules that are made in Europe and that we in the UK apparently have some say in, will have no meaning when we leave. No more than EU laws have any meaning to the US.

The EU has become a club that any country can join and reap the 'benefits' of regardless of any financial input from that country. Who would want to pay to be part of a golf club that then allowed just anyone to enter, free of charge and without owning their own equipment who then relied on borrowing other members gear?

Are you saying that your parliament does not matter, or that your vote doesn't matter?  Again, I am not up to date on the EU politics.

That we do get as much of a say as we reasonably can in a democracy. We vote for people who then go represent us in the EU as MEPs. They have as much say as our local MPs.

I remember when the EU first coagulated. Way back when.
My first thought was, "Who the hell would vote for more government?"

People who realise that countries that try to go at it alone tend not to do as well as when they work together. Like government in general, no one claims it's perfect but it's the least worst option.

The rules that are made in Europe and that we in the UK apparently have some say in, will have no meaning when we leave.

That's just not true. If we want to trade with Europe we need to follow all the same criteria that the EU already does, or they just won't trade with us; the same tariffs, the same regulations in charge of safety and quality etc. If you want to not trade with our nearest neighbours, well then it's going to get plenty harder with that step alone, let alone trying to cut deals.

Are you saying that we will have to comply with EU laws just to deal with them? That's not true and I can't see why it would be. The EU has already said that tariffs would not apply to the UK when we leave.

The US was once an English colony, with no say in parliament.  "Taxation without representation" is a common phrase here. 

Are you saying that we will have to comply with EU laws just to deal with them? That's not true and I can't see why it would be. The EU has already said that tariffs would not apply to the UK when we leave.

Only if we don't want to deal with them. You have to follow the regulations of your trading partners, that's how trade works.

The US was once an English colony, with no say in parliament.  "Taxation without representation" is a common phrase here.

Very similar to the UK today. We are represented in spirit only, nothing actually happens that benefits the UK.

Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:48:43 AM

The US was once an English colony, with no say in parliament.  "Taxation without representation" is a common phrase here.

Very similar to the UK today. We are represented in spirit only, nothing actually happens that benefits the UK.

Exactly.  Thank you for your support. 

No problem. Now you see why the UK wants to leave the EU?

That is what I have been saying.  Most of the UK don't like giving their money to other people who do not have it, or like for other countries to tell them they have to do it. 

On that, I agree with you and so do the majority of the UK do too as proved by the Brexit referendum result.

Freedom does not care what continent you are on.

On that, I agree with you and so do the majority of the UK do too as proved by the Brexit referendum result.

For context.


And the fact a lot of the people that voted leave did so as a protest vote, or based on propaganda, or still would not have voted for this trainwreck heading right for no deal.

Quote from: Son of Orospu on March 20, 2019, 07:48:43 AM

The US was once an English colony, with no say in parliament.  "Taxation without representation" is a common phrase here.

Very similar to the UK today. We are represented in spirit only, nothing actually happens that benefits the UK.

Bullshit.

That depends if you value paid holidays (working time directives 98), Science, £730 million of research grants funnelled through our universities giving them a boost, also collaborative science projects in Space and medicine have improved both, more than if we did it alone, Our seas and rivers have been cleaned up and our air should be if we didn’t keep breaking the rules.

Quote from: MS on March 20, 2019, 08:10:13 AM

On that, I agree with you and so do the majority of the UK do too as proved by the Brexit referendum result.

For context.


And the fact a lot of the people that voted leave did so as a protest vote, or based on propaganda, or still would not have voted for this trainwreck heading right for no deal.

Jane, are you eligible to run for PM? I would commit voter fraud for you if you promise to fix this shitshow

When the conservatives got in, did anyone demand another vote because they didn't like the result or they didn't realise they could vote?
If Man City lose to Chelsea, no point in crying about it and demanding a re-match.
I agree though, it is a shitshow and needs to be fixed.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 20, 2019, 07:27:12 AM

I remember when the EU first coagulated. Way back when.
My first thought was, "Who the hell would vote for more government?"

People who realise that countries that try to go at it alone tend not to do as well as when they work together. Like government in general, no one claims it's perfect but it's the least worst option.

What problem did the EU solve?

When the conservatives got in, did anyone demand another vote because they didn't like the result or they didn't realise they could vote?

We get a chance to vote every 5 years.  Shall we do this with the referendum as well?

If Man City lose to Chelsea, no point in crying about it and demanding a re-match.

I'm not sure why you think this is relevant? 

If the FA found out that Chelsea had cheated they would.

£61,000 fine from the electoral commission for breaking spending rules, £40,000 fine from the privacy watchdog for nearly 200,000 unsolicited text messages.....

Quote from: Jane on March 20, 2019, 07:40:56 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 20, 2019, 07:27:12 AM

I remember when the EU first coagulated. Way back when.
My first thought was, "Who the hell would vote for more government?"

People who realise that countries that try to go at it alone tend not to do as well as when they work together. Like government in general, no one claims it's perfect but it's the least worst option.

What problem did the EU solve?

Were you aware that 100% of the world wars started because Europeans fell out?

..and the EU solved that?

Name one world war since we joined?

That would have to be WWIII that hasn't happened, but oh no you just had to go and vote for war didn't you.

 I don't remember any world wars between 1945 and when we joined in the 70's? Who stopped them?
I was taking you seriously until your last comment.

I don't remember any world wars between 1945 and when we joined in the 70's? Who stopped them?
I was taking you seriously until your last comment.

LOL

The EU has actually probably stopped wars, but probably not wars that would have been waged between its members, but wars between non-EU and EU countries. Just look at Cyprus, which was extremely precarious before it joined.

The EU has done lots of good stuff actually, like useful consumer protection laws, environmental programs, research, infrastructure and growth grants, beneficial free trade and travel between members, a strong common currency with low inflation, etc. However it's also responsible for lots of very awful stuff (some of them being the other side of the coin to the positive stuff mentioned before) which is why some people want out and some want reform. Widespread radical reform is the best option but it is really hard to achieve that, so we're in a bit of a pickle.

The EU has actually probably stopped wars,

Which ones?

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 20, 2019, 05:09:06 PM

The EU has actually probably stopped wars,

Which ones?

The ones that didn't happen...  sheesh...  get with the program.

I don't remember any world wars between 1945 and when we joined in the 70's? Who stopped them?
I was taking you seriously until your last comment.

You missed the cold war?  You didn't know about the nuclear arms race? 

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 20, 2019, 05:30:21 PM

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 20, 2019, 05:09:06 PM

The EU has actually probably stopped wars,

Which ones?

The ones that didn't happen...  sheesh...  get with the program.

Remember that time there was that thing
that was all Ahhhhhh and everyone went Ehhhhhh
and sabers rattled and nobody gave a fuck?

Is that one of the averted wars?   

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 20, 2019, 05:09:06 PM

The EU has actually probably stopped wars,

Which ones?

Should have said averted. But yeah, I gave you an example of a country in a very precarious situation. Lots of countries feel much safer within the EU.