Brexit

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 23, 2019, 02:22:45 PM

Quote from: MS on March 23, 2019, 02:19:01 PM

...and with that empty answer the arguemnet is exhausted. I thank you.

It was exhausted the moment you started saying blatant falsities and couldn't comprehend simple concepts. Bye.

In other words MS is a typical brexiteer,  all lies and pig ignorance.

Please don't put british politics and pigs in the same sentence, we've already had enough of that.

This is fucking funny

Quote from: JerkFace on March 23, 2019, 09:13:53 PM

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 23, 2019, 02:22:45 PM

Quote from: MS on March 23, 2019, 02:19:01 PM

...and with that empty answer the arguemnet is exhausted. I thank you.

It was exhausted the moment you started saying blatant falsities and couldn't comprehend simple concepts. Bye.

In other words MS is a typical brexiteer,  all lies and pig ignorance.

Please don't put british politics and pigs in the same sentence, we've already had enough of that.

That first episode of Black Mirror.... ROFL 

Quote from: Jane on March 25, 2019, 05:26:49 PM

Quote from: JerkFace on March 23, 2019, 09:13:53 PM

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 23, 2019, 02:22:45 PM

Quote from: MS on March 23, 2019, 02:19:01 PM

...and with that empty answer the arguemnet is exhausted. I thank you.

It was exhausted the moment you started saying blatant falsities and couldn't comprehend simple concepts. Bye.

In other words MS is a typical brexiteer,  all lies and pig ignorance.

Please don't put british politics and pigs in the same sentence, we've already had enough of that.

That first episode of Black Mirror.... ROFL 

I wish it was just fiction.

British Tabloids are nuts.  Does anybody read this trash?




Image is  from here https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1111770255653851136

Why are British people so angry at ants?

"we need to embrace no deal" should read as "we need to embrace a recession and collapse of our industry and jobs"

I know I'll regret ever doing this,  but I looked up DEC and ANT,  just out of curiousity..... 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/who/ant-and-dec/

The last time I was in the UK,  the tabloids were all frothing at the mount about Madeleine somebody.  Weird shit goes on in the mind of the Brits.

So Vote Leave is guilty,  do any of these crooks get jail time?

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1112485919507050496

Here is Sargon of Akkad railing on about Brexit. I"m sure the terms he's saying makes sense to our English members. A lot of the people and things he's referencing are unfamiliar to me. One thing sticks out. Somewhere in the middle of the video he brought up a map that says there'd be roughly a 10% drop in gdp. He phrases it like it's not a big deal. Just cut some coupons or something. I'm not an economist but 10% sounds catastrophic. That seems like an instant depression.

I'm just in awe of the mindset of these people that think that a depression is worth... Whatever Brexit is supposed to do. Which I'm still not sure. It's either an unfair tax on biscuits or keeping out the brown people.

Here is Sargon of Akkad railing on about Brexit. I"m sure the terms he's saying makes sense to our English members. A lot of the people and things he's referencing are unfamiliar to me. One thing sticks out. Somewhere in the middle of the video he brought up a map that says there'd be roughly a 10% drop in gdp. He phrases it like it's not a big deal. Just cut some coupons or something. I'm not an economist but 10% sounds catastrophic. That seems like an instant depression.

I'm just in awe of the mindset of these people that think that a depression is worth... Whatever Brexit is supposed to do. Which I'm still not sure. It's either an unfair tax on biscuits or keeping out the brown people.

Lol Varoufakis makes a cameo. He had some really weird ideas about what Greece should do. Also none of them were feasible and he resigned. He still has a point on some stuff, but generally he's kinda weird and a really bad finance minister.

I'm just in awe of the mindset of these people that think that a depression is worth... Whatever Brexit is supposed to do. Which I'm still not sure. It's either an unfair tax on biscuits or keeping out the brown people.

Officially, it's a protest against the fact the EU is like any other body in the world and dares to have trade laws, so we want to be free of that and subject to likely worse laws, or still trading with the EU only with no say in what the requirements are. But realistically, yep, it's just 'keep out the brown people' and stoke up enough xenophobia that the politicians can ride it into power next election.
Given we reached the point where Theresa May said "If you back my deal, I'll resign," it's pretty clear this stopped being about the country and started being about party politics a long while ago. There's a reason there were literally no major votes or debates in the House until after the initial deadline had already passed. She's not trying to get a good deal, just make things desperate so MPs have no choice but to go along with her. There have been a multitude of MPs that just up and quit their own parties in disgust at what's going on. We got a new party made of MPs from the big two just because they were sick of everything.



When a guy basically leaves behind a semi-major role as party whip of the party that's in power after a vote and gets applause, you know things are fucked.

I'm just in awe of the mindset of these people that think that a depression is worth... Whatever Brexit is supposed to do. Which I'm still not sure. It's either an unfair tax on biscuits or keeping out the brown people.

It was mostly the second one which pushed a lot of people over the edge. I can understand some of the reasons to want to leave the EU, as the EU has (somewhat recently) started to push for a very specific political agenda and it threatens the sovereignty of some countries. In the case of Britain it's just not worth it though.

That's kind of what I figured. Everytime I hear a politician saying something that doesn't make any damn sense I sort of assume that it's really about the brown people.

Maybe we should just declare Antarctica to be a white ethnostate. These people that are this concerned about skin color that they'd break politics can move there, embrace their inner racist and maybe be honest about their intentions.

Quote from: Crouton on April 02, 2019, 02:22:21 PM

I'm just in awe of the mindset of these people that think that a depression is worth... Whatever Brexit is supposed to do. Which I'm still not sure. It's either an unfair tax on biscuits or keeping out the brown people.

It was mostly the second one which pushed a lot of people over the edge. I can understand some of the reasons to want to leave the EU, as the EU has (somewhat recently) started to push for a very specific political agenda and it threatens the sovereignty of some countries. In the case of Britain it's just not worth it though.

I agree with that, the EU definitely has made some poor decisions, but on one hand the UK isn't going to do much better if we go it alone as we've managed plenty of stupid laws (especially in reference to the internet, for the probably the latest EU controversy), and on the other if those laws are bad we should have a voice at the table to deal with them because a lot of them have international ramifications that we're going to get hit by to some extent regardless.

So. To avoid no deal, someone's proposed a bill to essentially mandate the PM ask for an extension if there's no consensus. The way this kind of thing works in the UK, bills go through three readings, typically over a few weeks/months to examine each and every word and consequence.
So naturally it's going through those three readings in one day. This is what stable government looks like people!

(Admittedly it's not perfect, it relies on the EU granting an extension and they're probably sick of us at this point, and keeping no deal on the table will hopefully force Corbyn's hand for a peoples' vote so they can stop talking about 'the will of the public!' and see if there people actually support anything they're doing after the past couple of years, so it was rejected at the last stage but still).
This is pretty much a disaster from start to finish, so to top it all off we naturally have what are semi-widely considered to be the worst leaders of our two major parties for at least a century or so leading us through it.

to top it all off we naturally have what are semi-widely considered to be the worst leaders of our two major parties for at least a century or so leading us through it.

*coughs in Tony Blair* Not even this century.

Quote from: Jane on April 03, 2019, 02:18:39 PM

to top it all off we naturally have what are semi-widely considered to be the worst leaders of our two major parties for at least a century or so leading us through it.

*coughs in Tony Blair* Not even this century.

Worse. I wish we had Blair. I wish we had Gordon 'cannot tell when a microphone is turned on' Brown. Honestly I'd be down for a dead squirrel to lead the Labour party. They have their issues, but at least they aren't going to actively put their own ego ahead of the fate of the whole country. An actual vote, a promise to revoke article 50 if we don't have a deal by the deadline, were all things that could have happened if he'd done his job and represented the opinion of the people that actually voted for him. The majority of his cabinet straight-up resigned and he kept pushing on. He's done more damage to the opposition than Brown or Blair or anyone at the worst possible time. The only reason Labour isn't utterly unelectable at this point is because Theresa May is so incompetent she tried to fall on her sword and missed.

Worse. I wish we had Blair.

?? Well maybe you wish that, Afghan and Iraqi people definitely don't.

Honestly I'd be down for a dead squirrel to lead the Labour party. They have their issues, but at least they aren't going to actively put their own ego ahead of the fate of the whole country. An actual vote, a promise to revoke article 50 if we don't have a deal by the deadline, were all things that could have happened if he'd done his job and represented the opinion of the people that actually voted for him. The majority of his cabinet straight-up resigned and he kept pushing on. He's done more damage to the opposition than Brown or Blair or anyone at the worst possible time. The only reason Labour isn't utterly unelectable at this point is because Theresa May is so incompetent she tried to fall on her sword and missed.

If you're talking about the MPs who broke off, I'm pretty sure that that wasn't the real reason these people resigned. I think these people resigned mainly because they did not like the direction Labour was heading to. I didn't know about people resigning from his cabinet. From what I can tell there's a change in direction happening in Labour, and this could be for the better in the long run, but maybe don't do it while Brexit is happening? It was really dumb to not adopt a clear enough stance on Brexit earlier on, but it was kind of expected, he used to be pro-Brexit.

Quote from: Jane on April 03, 2019, 03:05:30 PM

Worse. I wish we had Blair.

?? Well maybe you wish that, Afghan and Iraqi people definitely don't.

Quote

Honestly I'd be down for a dead squirrel to lead the Labour party. They have their issues, but at least they aren't going to actively put their own ego ahead of the fate of the whole country. An actual vote, a promise to revoke article 50 if we don't have a deal by the deadline, were all things that could have happened if he'd done his job and represented the opinion of the people that actually voted for him. The majority of his cabinet straight-up resigned and he kept pushing on. He's done more damage to the opposition than Brown or Blair or anyone at the worst possible time. The only reason Labour isn't utterly unelectable at this point is because Theresa May is so incompetent she tried to fall on her sword and missed.

If you're talking about the MPs who broke off, I'm pretty sure that that wasn't the real reason these people resigned. I think these people resigned mainly because they did not like the direction Labour was heading to. I didn't know about people resigning from his cabinet. From what I can tell there's a change in direction happening in Labour, and this could be for the better in the long run, but maybe don't do it while Brexit is happening? It was really dumb to not adopt a clear enough stance on Brexit earlier on, but it was kind of expected, he used to be pro-Brexit.

I get the feeling Corbyn would do the same, that's all. The thing about Blair is that he lacks morals, but he at least adhered to the basic concept of a democracy. Corbyn isn't concerned with anything but his own petty politics, he's officially anti-war but he's officially a lot of things, and it's not backed up by how he acts. If declaring war would let him stay in charge of the Labour party he'd do it in a heartbeat.
The charitable reading of Corbyn is that he's an idealist, a stick-to-his-principles left-wing campaigner that's more concerned with ideals than putting anything into practice, or actually making any change or actually making anything better. I was optimistic for Corbyn when it started out, but at this point it's becoming apparent he's everything Blair was, and also lacks any political ability. The best I can say for Corbyn is that he was a good MP, a voice that raised important issues when he had no real power by himself and was only a voice. He's just a god-awful leader who's more concerned with being sure that he's the one in charge than actually improving the lives of anyone. It's not that he was pro-brexit, it's that he is but most of the people that voted him into power aren't, so he's keeping ambiguous so that he gets their support. He'd do the same on anything, war or otherwise. He doesn't care that in the current climate he's basically unelectable so we're due five more years of Tories when an election comes around so he's never going to have a chance to put any of his reforms into practice, he doesn't care that because of that he's just going to be making life worse for pretty much everyone, just so long as he gets to serve his ego.
If Corbyn had been in Blair's seat, the Tory candidate John Major, the guy who'd led us through the first Gulf War, would have been the one in charge. I don't call that better.

Any leader who sees this happen to his shadow cabinet:

And thinks he's leading the party rather than causing chaos is at best deluded and at worse actively malevolent, and putting him in a seat like Blair's wouldn't have fared any better for anyone except JC himself.

The difference is that I don't think Corbyn ever supported the wars, but he did support Brexit. He's a bad politician but I don't think he's an immoral ghoul like Blair. And I liked him more after I saw the bizarre attacks British tabloids were launching against him. I remember something about how he'd literally kill the queen if he could and something about his coat or hat being a super big deal. Anyways I saw some recent polls and it does look like Labour is leading the polls, so maybe not everything will turn to shit.

I remember something about how he'd literally kill the queen if he could and something about his coat or hat being a super big deal.

and you believed it because you wanted to.

Quote from: Pezevenk on April 03, 2019, 10:28:35 PM

I remember something about how he'd literally kill the queen if he could and something about his coat or hat being a super big deal.

and you believed it because you wanted to.

I... Didn't believe it... That's the whole point, I was describing how silly they were.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 03, 2019, 11:43:51 PM

Quote from: Pezevenk on April 03, 2019, 10:28:35 PM

I remember something about how he'd literally kill the queen if he could and something about his coat or hat being a super big deal.

and you believed it because you wanted to.

I... Didn't believe it... That's the whole point, I was describing how silly they were.

The moose doesn't understand "Bizarre attacks"  he just does it instinctively. 

What are the odds on a second referendum being in favour of remain? 

I'm guessing 95-100%

Yeah it does seem like it would most likely be for remain. A second referendum is probably the best thing right now, it will make everyone shut up about how "it's what the people want".

So. To avoid no deal, someone's proposed a bill to essentially mandate the PM ask for an extension if there's no consensus. The way this kind of thing works in the UK, bills go through three readings, typically over a few weeks/months to examine each and every word and consequence.
So naturally it's going through those three readings in one day. This is what stable government looks like people!

(Admittedly it's not perfect, it relies on the EU granting an extension and they're probably sick of us at this point, and keeping no deal on the table will hopefully force Corbyn's hand for a peoples' vote so they can stop talking about 'the will of the public!' and see if there people actually support anything they're doing after the past couple of years, so it was rejected at the last stage but still).
This is pretty much a disaster from start to finish, so to top it all off we naturally have what are semi-widely considered to be the worst leaders of our two major parties for at least a century or so leading us through it.

Well, I guess I feel a *little* better knowing the US isn't the only country ran by a bunch it incompetent, corrupt morons.


Though wouldn't the UK be better off without the EU? They are the strongest country in the EU with Germany. Most of the other countries in the EU are weak and in distress.

I dunno know as I don't know a huge amount of brexit and obviously don't live in Europe

Though wouldn't the UK be better off without the EU?

There is no real benefit for leaving.

Though wouldn't the UK be better off without the EU? They are the strongest country in the EU with Germany. Most of the other countries in the EU are weak and in distress.

I dunno know as I don't know a huge amount of brexit and obviously don't live in Europe

I'm not even going to try unpacking that. But short version, even taking trade as just the most basic issue, we have a good deal with access to the single market/EU that we're going to need to be subject to if we want to actually have little things like enough food and medicine and power and bloody toilet paper to last a month. We're not a self-sufficient country. The best deal for leaving the EU is to stay a part of that market, which is the most popular thing voted for by MPs, but it of course means that we're subject to all the rules and regulations without any say in how they're governed.
Our options otherwise, as you cannot trade with any entity in he EU without trading with the whole EU, is worse deals trading with either much less accessible countries, or the ones in Europe that don't meet the criteria to actually join the EU (typically meaning dictatorships etc). Shout out to Theresa May selling weapons to Erdogan.

The difference is that I don't think Corbyn ever supported the wars, but he did support Brexit. He's a bad politician but I don't think he's an immoral ghoul like Blair. And I liked him more after I saw the bizarre attacks British tabloids were launching against him. I remember something about how he'd literally kill the queen if he could and something about his coat or hat being a super big deal. Anyways I saw some recent polls and it does look like Labour is leading the polls, so maybe not everything will turn to shit.

I agree there have been some ludicrous attacks on him, but the only reason he hasn't supported a war is because he hasn't had the chance. He's an opportunist through and through. Blair at least had defined motives, even if they were bordering on nationalistic. Corbyn would do everything Blair did and ride through on the support of his borderline cult of personality.
The only reason Labour hasn't imploded even more than it already has is because the Tories are the ones in charge of brexit so people are blaming them for this mess.

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker on April 04, 2019, 12:22:27 AM

Though wouldn't the UK be better off without the EU?

There is no real benefit for leaving.

Yeah there is no real upside to leaving. The campaign for it was essentially built on a lie and xenophobia.

No matter how they leave, sift or hard, the damage done to the British economy will be felt across every sector. It's already started with industries moving 'off shore' in anticipation

The full hard core 'leavers' are the kind of people that like to watch the world burn.