Hello

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ManDrake

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Hello
« on: January 11, 2007, 07:31:20 AM »
First of all I would like to compliment you all for your incredible stamina and will to endlesly deny any sane argument that renders this flat earth "theory" false. All of you that seem to promote this idea apear quite intelligent in your posts, frankly to intelligent to despite of everything around you to still hold this theory of yours as the truth. I think that it is harder to belive that all of you are really serious then to belive the Earth is flat :). To tell you the truth I have spent more time thinking as to why you would hold on this show as such,  than thinking about your theory. I've read most of your FAQ and some of your threads and came to conclusion that all of your arguments are based on doubt. In the begining I was actually very keen on debating you in this topic because I tought that there was no way in hell that you can survive some of the arguments that crossed my mind. Reading this forum I found that most of them were already layed in front of you and were dissmised just  because you CHOOSE TO BELIVE them to be false, or rather belive that they are not the only posibillity altough they are the most probable ones. In your FAQ there is a link to the original author of the FET and to several of his books. Even on this link you can read in the brief description that most of the conclusions in the book are circular and have no real value in logic. So considering everything seen here I hold that (beyond simple dogmatic belife) there can be no other reason for you to keep debating this theroy but just that, wish to debate something. There is almost a lawyer like quality in your arguments where logic and probability is irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is making someone else unable to say that you are wrong. SO I will not try to make you belive anything I belive and you can not expect me ever to belive that the earth is flat ( Unless i see it to be flat from orbit ;) ) but I will ask u to explain this to me nontheless:

From what I have gathered here you hold Earth to be A flat coin like board. Then if you would to stand in the center of that coin gravitiy would not pull you down but more to the eges of the coin. Adress this question plesas because I see that you like to adress questions :)

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midgard

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Re: Hello
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2007, 07:37:40 AM »
Quote from: "ManDrake"
First of all I would like to compliment you all for your incredible stamina and will to endlesly deny any sane argument that renders this flat earth "theory" false. All of you that seem to promote this idea apear quite intelligent in your posts, frankly to intelligent to despite of everything around you to still hold this theory of yours as the truth. I think that it is harder to belive that all of you are really serious then to belive the Earth is flat :). To tell you the truth I have spent more time thinking as to why you would hold on this show as such,  than thinking about your theory. I've read most of your FAQ and some of your threads and came to conclusion that all of your arguments are based on doubt. In the begining I was actually very keen on debating you in this topic because I tought that there was no way in hell that you can survive some of the arguments that crossed my mind. Reading this forum I found that most of them were already layed in front of you and were dissmised just  because you CHOOSE TO BELIVE them to be false, or rather belive that they are not the only posibillity altough they are the most probable ones. In your FAQ there is a link to the original author of the FET and to several of his books. Even on this link you can read in the brief description that most of the conclusions in the book are circular and have no real value in logic. So considering everything seen here I hold that (beyond simple dogmatic belife) there can be no other reason for you to keep debating this theroy but just that, wish to debate something. There is almost a lawyer like quality in your arguments where logic and probability is irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is making someone else unable to say that you are wrong. SO I will not try to make you belive anything I belive and you can not expect me ever to belive that the earth is flat ( Unless i see it to be flat from orbit ;) ) but I will ask u to explain this to me nontheless:


What a waste of words.

Quote from: "ManDrake"
From what I have gathered here you hold Earth to be A flat coin like board. Then if you would to stand in the center of that coin gravitiy would not pull you down but more to the eges of the coin. Adress this question plesas because I see that you like to adress questions :)


You said you read the FAQ, I say read it again. It is not gravity that keeps you on the earth but the earth's constant acceleration.

In any case I think you made a very dubious statement.

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ManDrake

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Hello
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2007, 07:45:52 AM »
So you say gravity does not exist ?

I said I read most of the FAQ :)

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midgard

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Hello
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2007, 07:48:44 AM »
It doesn't on the Earth.

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ManDrake

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Hello
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2007, 07:57:37 AM »
Well I think that should be enough for anyone who came here for a serious debate. Because you can see now that the first post was not a waste of words but a serious and correct assesment of this forums situation :) I recomend you sticky it next to your FAQ so that any newcomer can read it before putting any effort in debate , so long :)

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midgard

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Hello
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2007, 08:21:24 AM »
Can a round earther explain to me how gravity works? Not what it does but how it works.

It seems to be an important part of your round earth and yet you can't explain it.

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Fridge

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Hello
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2007, 08:33:19 AM »
Quote from: "midgard"
Can a round earther explain to me how gravity works? Not what it does but how it works.

It seems to be an important part of your round earth and yet you can't explain it.


Can you explain how the UA works, its seems very vital in your arguments too.

Or why gravity exists in other places, but not on earth?
ts Fucking Round

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ManDrake

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Hello
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2007, 08:37:11 AM »
It is not important part of round earth theroy, it is just something that is proven to be one of the basic properties of matter. Bigger the mass, stronger the gravity, and since the earth is big it has gravity big enogh to hold us on. I dont know exactly how it is proven that this is correct but it is generaly known fact and I need not know how it works to belive that it is true. You see that you dont question just round earth , but evertying that implies that it should be round. So basicly you deny big part of modern science. You say that goverments have a conspiracy about earth so they could steal money that would be used for space exploration. This is something that is rather funny :) because space expolration does not depend on Earth being round or flat. Space ships would be launched anyway and that money would be still spent on the same thing. But still you BELIVE that it is not. Like I said before. You choose to belive it is flat and wrap this layer of quickly made up answers around you to any would be questions that would come from anyone who would debate you. And since you can allway deny everything you want, there is no point in discussing it. This was probably my last post. C ya

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midgard

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Hello
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2007, 08:41:17 AM »
Quote from: "ManDrake"
I dont know exactly how it is proven that this is correct but it is generaly known fact and I need not know how it works to belive that it is true.


This is how you've been duped into believing a "round" earth, it's because:

YOU'RE AN IDIOT!

Quote from: "ManDrake"
This was probably my last post. C ya


I'm not going to bother demonstrating how much of an idiot you are but if you're curious about some of those answers they've been discussed ad nauseum - feel free to use the search function.

Good bye.

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Khusk

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Re: Hello
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2007, 09:58:44 AM »
Quote from: "midgard"

You said you read the FAQ, I say read it again. It is not gravity that keeps you on the earth but the earth's constant acceleration.


And what is accelerating the Earth?

Newtons 1st law:
A body at rest remains at rest, and a body in motion continues to move in a straight line with a constant speed unless and until an external unbalanced force acts upon it.

This states that for the Earth to be accelerating, there must be a force acting on it, and that force must be in the direction of acceleration.
. Not _. O.

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midgard

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Re: Hello
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2007, 10:00:33 AM »
Quote from: "Khusk"
Quote from: "midgard"

You said you read the FAQ, I say read it again. It is not gravity that keeps you on the earth but the earth's constant acceleration.


And what is accelerating the Earth?

Newtons 3st law:
A body at rest remains at rest, and a body in motion continues to move in a straight line with a constant speed unless and until an external unbalanced force acts upon it.

This states that for the Earth to be accelerating, there must be a force acting on it, and that force must be in the direction of acceleration.


The earth is being attracted to the anti-earth.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Hello
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2007, 10:01:39 AM »
Quote from: "Khusk"
Quote from: "midgard"

You said you read the FAQ, I say read it again. It is not gravity that keeps you on the earth but the earth's constant acceleration.


And what is accelerating the Earth?

Newtons 3st law:
A body at rest remains at rest, and a body in motion continues to move in a straight line with a constant speed unless and until an external unbalanced force acts upon it.

This states that for the Earth to be accelerating, there must be a force acting on it, and that force must be in the direction of acceleration.

Yep.  (psst!  It's the first law)


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Khusk

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Re: Hello
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2007, 10:04:53 AM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "Khusk"

Newtons 3st law:

Yep.  (psst!  It's the first law)


Gah. Right suffix, wrong number.

Quote from: "midgard"
Can a round earther explain to me how gravity works? Not what it does but how it works.

It seems to be an important part of your round earth and yet you can't explain it.


Your theories seem to be based simply on 'explainations'. If you can't think up a logical explaination to anything, you dismiss it. So explain to me this:

Why are there so many theories, books and publications in support of other theories apart from this one? Good luck blaming this one on 'conspiricy' too, because if your conspiricy theory really applied and the government -was- trying to cover this up, why would your little bible still be allowed to be published, and this website exist?

To be honest, 'conspiricy' theories tend to be the twisted dreams of psycotics and the paranoid - though you have austounded me at how the FES has taken this to a whole new level.
. Not _. O.

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Tom Bishop

Hello
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2007, 10:16:19 AM »
The Big Bang probably sparked the universe's constant acceleration. The speed of the universe will never reach the speed of light, but continue to come infinitely close to it.

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Khusk

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Hello
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2007, 10:20:33 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
The Big Bang probably sparked the universe's constant acceleration. The speed of the universe will never reach the speed of light, but continue to come infinitely close to it.


No. Because the big bang only exerted a force while it was actually doing the 'big bang' part. After that, it was no longer putting a force on anything in the universe.

Given the vacuumous quality of space, in theory everything should travel at a constant speed (newtons first law again) and observations in the wavelengths of light from various stars give clues into their realitive speed to our own, which shows the universe is spreading - however, gravitational force between different stars causes the unverse to be gradually slowing. There's a whole slew of different theories and outcomes of the universes eventual position.

But none of them involve a flat earth.
. Not _. O.

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Tom Bishop

Hello
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2007, 10:24:46 AM »
Quote from: "Khusk"
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
The Big Bang probably sparked the universe's constant acceleration. The speed of the universe will never reach the speed of light, but continue to come infinitely close to it.


No. Because the big bang only exerted a force while it was actually doing the 'big bang' part. After that, it was nolonger putting a force on anything in the universe.

Everything is decelerating.


Wrong. The universe is accelerating. The truth is that the big bang is still happening. Most Cosmologists and Theoretical Physcists, Stephen Hawking included, subscribe to this fact.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_universe

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Banjooie

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Hello
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2007, 10:27:56 AM »
How does gravity work?

Sorta like this.

Take a pop can. I've got one near my desk, and if you don't...drink more pop. Or something. What we want is a middling sized object.

This object has mass. Now, everything in the /entire universe/ strives to become bigger. Whether this is because bigger things are totally awesome, God does it, or it's simply the random law of physics that happened when the big bang happened--everything tries to become bigger.  Bacteria try to become more advanced bacteria, kittens grow into cats, small fellows with cylindrical heads roll Katamaris for larger men with cylindrical head to make stars and planets out of. Everything /wants/ to become bigger, and this one does it through the property that mass attracts other mass.

Gravity is an extension of the strong nuclear force. Your math gets a little futzed when you try to apply the EXACT same equations, but that's why physics professors are still working on the theory of everything. Atoms pull each other together, this is why everything is not constantly exploding violently. (The weak nuclear force is what constantly pushes the atoms apart, keeping everything from supercompressing. It's really /about/ as strong as the strong nuclear force, it's a misnomer.)

Therefore, what you're holding, in addition to being mass, is also a giant pile of atoms. (Multifunction!)

A bunch of atoms, working together however intentionally or unintentionally, want more atoms sticking to them. This is gravity.

However, the problem is that atoms are frankly frigging small. If you hold two magnets down (Which work more on alignment of atoms than the other thing, which is complicated and unrelated, frankly.), they're not going to slam together. Two pop cans will take /billions of years/ to touch, because the earth is busy trying to make them a part of its mass.

Now, let's take a vacuum. Not outer space. Outer space ain't a vacuum of gravity, there is gravity frigging /everywhere/. It's just that it's pulling you in a lot of different directions, and the end result is you're not being /especially/ pulled anywhere. You're not pulled apart cause it's pretty weak in space compared to standing on the earth.  A species born and evolved in space would go down to earth and be like 'wtf I'm freaking HEAVY'.

But no, we want a completely empty universe with our laws. Maybe our King of All Cosmos can get drunk and knock it all out of the sky again. He does that once in a while.

Let's put in our two pop cans.

It may take no time at all. It may take a fair chunk of time, I don't know what equations you use for this, but no matter how far away you put those pop cans, they will eventually touch. (Assuming you yourself are breaking the laws and don't have gravity, otherwise since you're bigger than a pop can, they will eventually touch YOU. And since you're the only thing in the universe besides the assailants, you can't claim harassment for it. Sorry.)

Now, we fast forward to the universe. We had no crap, then suddenly we had a lot of crap, everywhere. It didn't become a huge ball only because the speed at which everything was moving was considerably faster than the speed at which the mass was clinging together. Eventually, however, everything started clinging together, in generally round shapes. (Incidentally, the earth is not perfectly round in RE theory. It is actually /very/ slightly pearshaped.)

Inertia says that this stuff isn't gonna stop moving till someone stops it.  Now we move to our next point: Why, if gravity works this way, isn't the universe slowly crunching as masses are pulled together?

This is because if you move at the exact right speed, you ignore gravity.

How is it remotely possible that everything in the universe is moving at the exact right speed?

A lot of it isn't. A lot of it is eventually going to crash into other stuff, or already has crashed into other stuff, or is crashing RIGHT NOW.  The earth is moving at the exact right speed, because if it's a one in a million chance that something will go right, if you roll the dice a nigh-infinite amount of  times, you're gonna get it a fair chunk. (Well, nigh-infinitely, but there aren't really enough zeroes for something that isn't quite infinity.)

Another way you could do this is water. Yeah, stuff in water tends to float together eventually, given no currents, or eddies. Try your bathtub and light stuff.  This produces a disk shape, roughly

Now, imagine two planes superimposed upon each other perpendicularly, with a layer of water with things floating on 'em. You'd get a sorta shape like star fruit.

Now, imagine three hundred and sixty planes superimposed upon each other a degree apart, with a separate layer of water. You get a roughly round shape.

This, highly, highly simplified, is how gravity works.

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Khusk

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Hello
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2007, 10:29:05 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote from: "Khusk"
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
The Big Bang probably sparked the universe's constant acceleration. The speed of the universe will never reach the speed of light, but continue to come infinitely close to it.


No. Because the big bang only exerted a force while it was actually doing the 'big bang' part. After that, it was nolonger putting a force on anything in the universe.

Everything is decelerating.


Wrong. The universe is accelerating. The truth is that the big bang is still happening. Most Cosmologists and Theoretical Physcists, Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking included, subscribe to this fact.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_universe


I was editing my post while you posted that to add more depth, including mentions on the various target universal models. The accelerating universe is one such model - but it is one of many. Again I repeat, none of them involve a flat earth.
. Not _. O.

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I Have A Clever Name

Hello
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2007, 10:34:31 AM »
Quote
The truth is that the big bang is still happening. Most Cosmologists and Theoretical Physcists, Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking included, subscribe to this fact.


Quite remarkable that you make an assertion, then use reputable scientists to support your argument.  At the same time you deny several centuries of scientific fact and assume, with no basis, there is a global conspiracy preventing us from seeing the edge of the Earth. This usually wouldn't be a huge fallacy but considering the scope of your 'doubt' (using the term in the loosest possible sense) its pretty serious.

I suggest you prove the 'Big Bang' ever happened independent of said scientists - you see, I think they're all in on it with the mystical jellyfish and their unholy allies the Jesuits.

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Tom Bishop

Hello
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2007, 10:36:09 AM »
Quote
no theories involve a flat earth


Then how do you explain the existence of the Flat Earth Society?

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dantheman40k

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Hello
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2007, 10:37:52 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote
no theories involve a flat earth


Then how do you explain the existence of the Flat Earth Society?


Lots of people marrying their brothers and sisters and then having kids.
FE Pwnage Archive

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=8101.0


The Engineer is still a douchebag







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Khusk

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Hello
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2007, 10:38:02 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote
no theories involve a flat earth


Then how do you explain the existence of the Flat Earth Society?


The same way I explain the existance of people who truely belive in the force from 'starwars' or, well, most religeous practices.

They read it in a book, therefore they belive it, because the explinations given to them are eaisier than trying to reason with the problem themselves.
. Not _. O.

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I Have A Clever Name

Hello
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2007, 10:38:30 AM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote
no theories involve a flat earth


Then how do you explain the existence of the Flat Earth Society?


The Flat Earth Society has no 'theory' as the term is understood scientifically. It has wild speculation.

Hello
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2007, 10:49:08 AM »
I almost came in my pants when i saw this thread.

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Nocashvalue

Hello
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2007, 11:35:19 AM »
I'm a little perplexed as to how you'd use your paranoid theories to explain my having flown around the world :/

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TheEngineer

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Hello
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2007, 12:55:36 PM »
Quote from: "Banjooie"

Gravity is an extension of the strong nuclear force.

Is it?  
Quote
This, highly, highly simplified, is how gravity works.

But it was a nice try...


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Banjooie

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Hello
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2007, 12:56:50 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Is it?
Yes!
Quote
But it was a nice try...
I can try to refactor the King of All Cosmos into it if you like.

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cmdshft

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Re: Hello
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2007, 01:04:01 PM »
Quote from: "midgard"
Quote from: "Khusk"
Quote from: "midgard"

You said you read the FAQ, I say read it again. It is not gravity that keeps you on the earth but the earth's constant acceleration.


And what is accelerating the Earth?

Newtons 3st law:
A body at rest remains at rest, and a body in motion continues to move in a straight line with a constant speed unless and until an external unbalanced force acts upon it.

This states that for the Earth to be accelerating, there must be a force acting on it, and that force must be in the direction of acceleration.


The earth is being attracted to the anti-earth.


And how is it being attracted to the Anit-earth? another "magic force".. or can it be.. dare I say it.. GRAVITY?! OH NOES NOT GRAVITY, A FORCE THAT WE FEEL AND EXPERIENCE EVERY DAY AND ALSO KNOWN TO EXIST ON OTHER PLANTZ!? MAN I CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT THIS ANTI-EARTH LOOKS LIKE, OH AND JUPITERS ANTI-JUPITER TOO!!

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TheEngineer

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Hello
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2007, 01:04:41 PM »
How about something that actually makes sence?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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FE

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Hello
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2007, 01:09:45 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
How about something that actually makes sence?


Oh, so not Flat Earth theory then?