Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2017, 11:02:32 AM »
Again, not making any sense... You were talking about a ball in a plane, that would get back to your hand as long as the plane stayed on its course. The same applies for Earth. Of course if the plane moves abruptly, the ball will not get back in your hand, and then the comparison with Earth ends because it does not move abruptly.

Also, this 3D video of the solar system sporting a vortex has been flagged as wrong many times.

The planets do not drag behind the sun. They sometimes pass in front of it (relatively to its own motion around the center of the galaxy). That is because the solar system (direction of the ecliptic) makes an angle with the direction of the Sun. So planets are sometimes in front of the Sun, sometimes behind.

If all you want to remember is that orbits make fancy helicoids when their star is moving, then yes that is true.

But in reality it looks more like this :
http://i.imgur.com/rLr8Swh.mp4

If you join the planets with a line to draw the ecliptic, then you can see the angle I was talking about.



In the early century, the scientific community believed that if you went up on a hot air balloon, that the earth would spin under you.

There was one scientist, before the right brother I believe that did such an experiment, I remember seeing actual video footage on YouTube. He believed that if he was in the sky for 4 hours, he would land in the USA. After 4 hours he only went a couple of miles.

After this faller, there were only two possibilities, either the earth was not spinning or there was some magical force that kept him glued to the ground.

This is where you got this idea, from a failed experiment that you had somehow had to explain.

This is all bull and either you know it and are lading about it, or you are just as smart as those scientist that believe in Piltdown Man.

When I find the video, I will post it.
You would agree the earth revolves relative to the sun?

I will agree with you that the Sun rotates above the earth as described in the book of Enoch (Before Noah's Flood)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64293.msg1818354#msg1818354
As per current observations?  Measurements show the earth to be round.

Actually I agree with you because the bible does state that in Isaiah 40:22 - It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

But that does not mean that when something is round, it is also a sphere, because a rod is round, but it is not a sphere.

Also, in the bible, the same Author, shows us that he know the difference between a circle and a sphere, because  he states that in Isaiah 22:18 - He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.


So you are in total agreement with GOD.





To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

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inquisitive

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #91 on: July 22, 2017, 11:18:36 AM »
Again, not making any sense... You were talking about a ball in a plane, that would get back to your hand as long as the plane stayed on its course. The same applies for Earth. Of course if the plane moves abruptly, the ball will not get back in your hand, and then the comparison with Earth ends because it does not move abruptly.

Also, this 3D video of the solar system sporting a vortex has been flagged as wrong many times.

The planets do not drag behind the sun. They sometimes pass in front of it (relatively to its own motion around the center of the galaxy). That is because the solar system (direction of the ecliptic) makes an angle with the direction of the Sun. So planets are sometimes in front of the Sun, sometimes behind.

If all you want to remember is that orbits make fancy helicoids when their star is moving, then yes that is true.

But in reality it looks more like this :
http://i.imgur.com/rLr8Swh.mp4

If you join the planets with a line to draw the ecliptic, then you can see the angle I was talking about.



In the early century, the scientific community believed that if you went up on a hot air balloon, that the earth would spin under you.

There was one scientist, before the right brother I believe that did such an experiment, I remember seeing actual video footage on YouTube. He believed that if he was in the sky for 4 hours, he would land in the USA. After 4 hours he only went a couple of miles.

After this faller, there were only two possibilities, either the earth was not spinning or there was some magical force that kept him glued to the ground.

This is where you got this idea, from a failed experiment that you had somehow had to explain.

This is all bull and either you know it and are lading about it, or you are just as smart as those scientist that believe in Piltdown Man.

When I find the video, I will post it.
You would agree the earth revolves relative to the sun?

I will agree with you that the Sun rotates above the earth as described in the book of Enoch (Before Noah's Flood)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64293.msg1818354#msg1818354
As per current observations?  Measurements show the earth to be round.

Actually I agree with you because the bible does state that in Isaiah 40:22 - It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

But that does not mean that when something is round, it is also a sphere, because a rod is round, but it is not a sphere.

Also, in the bible, the same Author, shows us that he know the difference between a circle and a sphere, because  he states that in Isaiah 22:18 - He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.


So you are in total agreement with GOD.
To be clear, the earth is a sphere.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #92 on: July 22, 2017, 11:38:37 AM »
The earth is a circle, not a sphere. End of story.
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

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inquisitive

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #93 on: July 22, 2017, 11:52:02 AM »
The earth is a circle, not a sphere. End of story.
Sorry, but you are wrong, as I think you know.  Measurements prove the shape.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #94 on: July 22, 2017, 11:53:51 AM »
The earth is a circle, not a sphere. End of story.
Sorry, but you are wrong, as I think you know.  Measurements prove the shape.

The problem is not taking the measurement, but interpenetrating correctly.

Is the glass filled with water or is the glass filled with air?

To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

Badxtoss

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2017, 11:58:39 AM »
Quote
You haven't yet proven one is needed and been given multiple replies how it is not.

What we can't create, we say that it not needed...

Quote
All you've succeeded in doing is showing how you don't understand relative motion and momentum.

OK, know this is what I expected from the wolf pack, just state nonsense.

This is physics 101, relative motion has nothing to do with forces.

OK, show me the momentum equation that can explain how the airplane is synchronized with the earth movement...

Did you think that I picked random airports location?

If the Earth was spinning, the momentum that the airplane would of had when it leaves the airfield would be much smaller than the landing field, plus it would be in the direction that the plane would be taking off.

Momentum is not the magic rabbit out of the hat this time.

Good night and you know have a nice dream!
And still no proof one is needed.

And still no understanding of relative movement or momentum.  AGAIN the difference in angular velocity changes gradually during the flight.
But thanks for proving that your claim to be an engineer on another thread was a lie.

here's a tip by the way, if you click the "quote" button in the upper right of the post you are wanting to quote, then it will show in the quote who you quoting.  Unless you WANT to make your posts harder to read?

In order to have motion, you need to have a force applied to the object.

F = ma

All that I am asking is for you to place the force on the FBD that supposedly keeps the airplane is sync with the earth rotation, when it is flying in the sky.

If there is such a force, it would have to make a 90 degree shift. Also if would have to overcome the inertia of the airplane with the 90 degree shift.

The Conservation of momentum is a fundamental law in physics which states that the momentum of a system is constant if there are no external forces acting on the system. So what forces acted upon the airplane that made this 90 degree shift that keeps the airplane in sync with the earth rotation.

Write down the equation of the conservation of momentum with all components, x, y and z to prove me wrong
Have you ever been in an airplane?  Notice how if you throw a ball up it comes, pretty much, straight down?  And yet it has also travelled many meters in the direction of flight.  It's momentum carries in that direction even though it is no longer touching the plane. 
Kind of the same thing.

Thank you for given me the information that I needed to once and for all debunk your logic

First of all, the ball is indirect contact with the airplane, from take off, so it gets the momentum.

How about if while I throw the ball in the air and at that instance the plane make a hard left dive. Will the ball return to my hand or will it land somewhere else in the plane? Why did not the momentum carry the ball to my position?

The same thing applies to the earth and atmosphere.

In order  to have a movement of an object, then a force must be applied to it.

End of story.
Yes if the earth ever makes a hard left dive it would probably fuck up a lot of things.  Good thing it doesn't do that.  You've only shown your own ignorance and debunked nothing

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2017, 12:08:32 PM »
You know, God laughs when people try to show how smart they are by saying that their is NO God.
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

inquisitive

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2017, 12:51:01 PM »
The earth is a circle, not a sphere. End of story.
Sorry, but you are wrong, as I think you know.  Measurements prove the shape.

The problem is not taking the measurement, but interpenetrating correctly.

Is the glass filled with water or is the glass filled with air?
Please explain how distances across the earth can be used to determine its shape.

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Sentinel

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2017, 12:54:22 PM »
You know, God laughs when people try to show how smart they are by saying that their is NO God.

I'd like to see you drawing a FBD on God.
"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2017, 12:57:07 PM »
The earth is a circle, not a sphere. End of story.
Sorry, but you are wrong, as I think you know.  Measurements prove the shape.

The problem is not taking the measurement, but interpenetrating correctly.

Is the glass filled with water or is the glass filled with air?
Please explain how distances across the earth can be used to determine its shape.

It is not distances from all over the place, but from a fixed location. It will be like a spider web. You can then find the outer boundaries and determine it's shape.
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

inquisitive

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #100 on: July 22, 2017, 01:00:08 PM »
The earth is a circle, not a sphere. End of story.
Sorry, but you are wrong, as I think you know.  Measurements prove the shape.

The problem is not taking the measurement, but interpenetrating correctly.

Is the glass filled with water or is the glass filled with air?
Please explain how distances across the earth can be used to determine its shape.

It is not distances from all over the place, but from a fixed location. It will be like a spider web. You can then find the outer boundaries and determine it's shape.
Multiple locations to each other give a more accurate result.

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kennykirklan

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2017, 01:02:56 PM »
You know, God laughs when people try to show how smart they are by saying that their is NO God.

God draws amusement from being smug? I thought he was better than that.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2017, 01:08:01 PM »
You know, God laughs when people try to show how smart they are by saying that their is NO God.

God draws amusement from being smug? I thought he was better than that.

Can a computer variable in a subroutine tell the program on how to act?

We are the variable, God is the programmer!!!
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

kennykirklan

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #103 on: July 22, 2017, 01:20:37 PM »
You know, God laughs when people try to show how smart they are by saying that their is NO God.

God draws amusement from being smug? I thought he was better than that.

Can a computer variable in a subroutine tell the program on how to act?

We are the variable, God is the programmer!!!

What is the subroutine? Peoples houses? And what are animals, is a dog a variable? Or a constant? Goldfish? Are they pointers? Herd of sheep would be an array? What about the shepherd?

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #104 on: July 22, 2017, 01:26:02 PM »
You know, God laughs when people try to show how smart they are by saying that their is NO God.

God draws amusement from being smug? I thought he was better than that.

Can a computer variable in a subroutine tell the program on how to act?

We are the variable, God is the programmer!!!

What is the subroutine? Peoples houses? And what are animals, is a dog a variable? Or a constant? Goldfish? Are they pointers? Herd of sheep would be an array? What about the shepherd?

The subroutine is the Universe

Everything else is 1 and 0.

except for the humans which we are the variables


To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

Badxtoss

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2017, 02:16:29 PM »
You know, God laughs when people try to show how smart they are by saying that their is NO God.
Wtf are you talking about?  I never said that.

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Badxtoss

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #106 on: July 22, 2017, 02:17:29 PM »
The earth is a circle, not a sphere. End of story.
But didn't you say it had four corners?

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JackBlack

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #107 on: July 22, 2017, 06:20:17 PM »
You debunked nothing.
Your example is not merely a giant motor, it is a small motor in a giant room.
And that has the spinning component housed in something else.

Compare this to Earth:
Earth has a radius of 6471 km (roughly), and the atmosphere is roughly 100 km thick (before it starts getting quite thin). But we don't need the entire atmosphere, we just need the altitude planes fly at.

That is roughly 35 000 ft or 10 km.
That is roughly 0.0015 times the radius.

So for a valid comparison, forget the motor, forget the vast majority of the room (although it will effect it and I will discuss that in a second):
You have a spinning axle, lets say it is 10 cm wide, so a radius of 5 cm.
Are you saying this spinning wont effect the air that is 5*0.0015 cm = 75 micron further out?
If so, I would like some evidence of that.

As for the rest of the room, Earth is in space, a fairly friction-less environment. That means there is nothing trying to stop the air from moving with Earth.
Meanwhile your motor is in a room full of air. This room will exert friction on the air stopping it from moving with the motor.

So no, you have debunked nothing, and again, you already have your diagram unless you want to try claiming that wind can't blow things.
Wrong, the earth makes 1 revolution per 24 hours where this motor make 12,000 revolutions be minute or 17,280,000 revolutions per day.
So you have to scale up your result of 75 micron and the new value will become to 1296 meters.
Like I said
The heliocentric theory is debunked.
Wrong, I never gave the rotational speed of the motor, so I don't need to scale up anything.
Regardless, we should be focusing on the linear speed, as that is what causes the friction.
The linear speed of Earth (at the equator) is roughly 40 000 km/day, or 460 m/s.
For a motor spinning at 12000 rpm or 200 revolutions per second, with a shaft of 10 cm, or 0.1 m diameter, that is 0.1*pi*200 or roughly 63 m/s.
So if anything we need to scale it down. So our new value will become closer to 10 micron.

And none of that focused on the bigger issue:
Earth is surrounded by space, so no friction.
The shaft is surrounded by air which is in contact with the motor housing and the room. As such, there will be lots of friction slowing the air around the shaft.

So no, you debunked nothing.

This directional force must remain constant in direction and would then have to explain how to calculate it accurately.
Why would it need to remain constant?

In all the physics classes I took, we never even talked about this imaginary force.
That is because it is a real force, often called drag or air resistance, sometimes combined with thrust, lift and weight (such as during a crosswind landing) as well as the friction between the tires and the ground (once it has actually landed).

OK, let me put it to you this way, you have two identical motor in two identical boxes, with identical air conditions in space, zero gravity.
But that isn't the case.
You have one massive "motor" without any housing, in space with a thin layer of air around it, and another tiny motor in a room full of air near its motor housing.

So they are going to be significantly different.

But the only thing is that the Michelson-Morley Experiment did tell us that the earth was stationary with the help of the Sagnac experiment.
Why do you keep repeating the same lies?

In the aether model, MM showed that Earth is stationary relative to the aether, and Sagnac showed Earth is moving realtive to the aether.

These experiments didn't show Earth to be stationary, they showed the aether to be non-existent.
In the ballistic model, Sagnac is impossible.
Thus the only known alternative left is relativity, where MM backed up that the speed of light is constant in any inertial reference frame, and Sagnac showed that Earth was not in an inertial reference frame, but was rotating.


You may try to discredit the idea, but you will be nothing more than the scientist that believed in the Piltdown Man?

You believe in a lie
No, that would be you, except you are far worse than those scientists. You are completely lying about what the evidence shows.

But our airplane did, it changed direction and for an instance it had to deal with stresses that would break it apart.
No. The stresses are not great enough to break it apart. If that was the case it would tear itself apart in a slight breeze. In fact, it merely flying through the air would be enough to tear it apart.

In the early century, the scientific community believed that if you went up on a hot air balloon, that the earth would spin under you.
There was one scientist, before the right brother I believe that did such an experiment, I remember seeing actual video footage on YouTube. He believed that if he was in the sky for 4 hours, he would land in the USA. After 4 hours he only went a couple of miles.
After this faller, there were only two possibilities, either the earth was not spinning or there was some magical force that kept him glued to the ground.
This is where you got this idea, from a failed experiment that you had somehow had to explain.
This is all bull and either you know it and are lading about it, or you are just as smart as those scientist that believe in Piltdown Man.
Yes, I suspect this is all bull and you are just making shit up like you normally do to avoid dealing with the arguments presented.

Again, do you accept that wind can blow things around?

It is not distances from all over the place, but from a fixed location. It will be like a spider web. You can then find the outer boundaries and determine it's shape.
No it can't.
Just measuring distances from one location gives you very little information about the overall shape.
Just considering 3 points:
You have point 1, in the centre.
Point 2 is 10 m from point 1.
Point 3 is 9 m from point 1.
What is the shape, as accurately as possible.
Is it basically a straight line?
It is an obtuse triangle?

What if I introduce a 4th point, which is 11 m from point 1?
Are all 4 points in the same plane?

You have no idea.
You need to measure additional distances to be able to determine the shape.

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JackBlack

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2017, 06:24:27 PM »
Perhaps this will help you understand:
Have your plane take off, so it is travelling at the 93 m/s east with Earth (or whatever, plus whatever motion it has relative to Earth).
Now magically teleport it to near the landing site.
It still carries its original motion. it is pitched up quite high so the pilot levels it out, and gravity stops it from flying up/keeps it fairly level.
It is now in air which is moving at 439 m/s east with Earth (or whatever).
This represents a large cross wind and starts blowing the plane sideways speeding it up.
After a short while, the plane is now moving sideways with that air and is all synced up with Earth and ready for its final approach.
No problem.

Now, instead of doing it all at once, have it teleport to some intermediate location, get settled, then teleport again.
The same thing happens, but to a much lesser extent.

Keep breaking this up into smaller and smaller jumps and the variations drop to basically nothing, giving you a relatively smooth path/transition.

Again, to object to this would be akin to saying wind cannot blow objects.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2017, 11:44:34 PM »
You know, God laughs when people try to show how smart they are by saying that their is NO God.

I'd like to see you drawing a FBD on God.

Why don't you draw me the FBD of the airplane and if you want to use the stupid excuse that the wind stays with the earth, then I would like to see the citation of the Convection heat transfer model in which a spinning sphere that radiates to its environment, with the temperature gradient and the velocity gradient.

Show me, how far up this gradient does, does it go 1m, 20m, 100m 1,000m ,10,000m...

If you can't, then this is all bull and the earth is flat and you have been busted again!!!!

By the way the first time was this video



To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #110 on: July 22, 2017, 11:49:39 PM »
Quote
Wrong, I never gave the rotational speed of the motor, so I don't need to scale up anything.

So your calculations were based on a station earth!!!!!

And since the earth is supposedly moving, then and you did not take into account, then your calculations is bogus and is inline with the Piltdown Man.
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

*

InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2017, 11:56:05 PM »
To prove your point that the earth's atmosphere moves with the spinning earth, please provide citation of the Convention Heat Transfer Model of a spinning sphere when it radiates to the environment, just like earth does, where it shows the thermal and velocity boundary layers.

Does the velocity boundary layer extend 1 m, 10 m, 1000 m, 10,000 m, 100,000 m...

If such citation can't be provided, then all this talk about the earth's atmosphere moving with the earth is bullshit!!!

If you want to talk about science, let's talk about science, if you want to spread propaganda, then choose a different site to do so...
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

kennykirklan

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #112 on: July 23, 2017, 01:33:26 AM »
To prove your point that the earth's atmosphere moves with the spinning earth, please provide citation of the Convention Heat Transfer Model of a spinning sphere when it radiates to the environment, just like earth does, where it shows the thermal and velocity boundary layers.

Does the velocity boundary layer extend 1 m, 10 m, 1000 m, 10,000 m, 100,000 m...

If such citation can't be provided, then all this talk about the earth's atmosphere moving with the earth is bullshit!!!

If you want to talk about science, let's talk about science, if you want to spread propaganda, then choose a different site to do so...


The atmosphere moving with the earth is due to friction - your question is wrong.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2017, 01:41:23 AM »
Are you saying that Convection Heat Transfer is bogus?

Does not the Earth in the heliocentric model radiate to open space?

Friction, you say, but friction is a force and since it is a force then it could be placed on a Free Body Diagram.

So please draw the Free Body Diagram of an airplane landing and label all the forces that it encounters especially the force that keeps it in sync with the supposed earth rotation,

To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

kennykirklan

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #114 on: July 23, 2017, 01:51:25 AM »
Are you saying that Convection Heat Transfer is bogus?

Does not the Earth in the heliocentric model radiate to open space?

Friction, you say, but friction is a force and since it is a force then it could be placed on a Free Body Diagram.

So please draw the Free Body Diagram of an airplane landing and label all the forces that it encounters especially the force that keeps it in sync with the supposed earth rotation,

No, read again properly. I'm saying the atmosphere moves with the earth due to friction.

And has been repeatedly mentioned, the plane retains momentum from the rotating earth on take off as there are no forces to counteract this. No FBD required for this simple concept.

If you love FBDs so much, draw one showing God making the flat earth.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #115 on: July 23, 2017, 02:09:00 AM »
Are you saying that Convection Heat Transfer is bogus?

Does not the Earth in the heliocentric model radiate to open space?

Friction, you say, but friction is a force and since it is a force then it could be placed on a Free Body Diagram.

So please draw the Free Body Diagram of an airplane landing and label all the forces that it encounters especially the force that keeps it in sync with the supposed earth rotation,

No, read again properly. I'm saying the atmosphere moves with the earth due to friction.

And has been repeatedly mentioned, the plane retains momentum from the rotating earth on take off as there are no forces to counteract this. No FBD required for this simple concept.

If you love FBDs so much, draw one showing God making the flat earth.


First of all you are showing your ignorance when you ask me to make a FBD of a "God making the flat earth"

You are asking me to place two object in 1 free body diagram which goes against the basic fundamentals of free body diagrams. Go take some physic classes before taking to me, because this is the first thing that you learn. I object per FBD!!

You said "the atmosphere moves with the earth due to friction"

Friction is a force.

Forces can be placed on a Free Body Diagram.

Just like when a block slides down an incline.

So either draw the Free Body Diagram with the sync forces OR provide citation of the Convection Heat Transfer Model of the Earth with the Velocity Boundary layers
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

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savagepilot

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #116 on: July 23, 2017, 02:31:46 AM »
This is too much fun.  I've been reading this forum for some time now, and it's time to add to the debate.  Ignoring all the religious talk this thread kind of sunk to, the OP asked a valid question:  how could an airplane in Norway with an orbital velocity of 94.31 m/s land at an airport in Israel with an orbital velocity of 393.33 m/s?  It's a fair question:  how, according to RE theory, would the plane's orbital velocity increase by 299 m/s?  That seems like a huge increase in velocity.

The OP wants proof in the form of forces.  Physics states that an object in motion will stay in motion unless another force acts upon it.  So if I throw a ball across the field, it should continue on forever, right?  Only it does not, it slows down and drops to the Earth.  What forces are acting on it?  The first is either gravity or the upward acceleration of the Earth, which for this discussion is the same thing.  The second is drag, which is the friction between the molecules of the ball and the molecules of the air, which has a pressure at sea level of about 14 lbs per square inch.  If you don't think air has mass or pressure, try sticking your hand out the car window on a freeway.  What do you feel?  Resistance, also known as drag.  It is the interaction between the molecules of your hand and the molecules of the air.

Aircraft feel the same thing, only drag causes forces from two vectors.  The first is called "induced drag" and very simply as the airplane goes faster, resistance from the air pushes harder on the airplane, and eventually the engines are unable to further overpower the drag.  This is why airplanes have a maximum airspeed.

The second is drag from the air mass, also called wind.  All FE theorists have felt wind, it is the motion of the wind across the ground and it is caused by local or regional variations in air pressure.  A fluid or gas will move from an area of high pressure to an area of low pressure.  That is what causes a balloon to go PHHHPT if left untied, and it is what causes winds.  Stand in a field on a windy day and you feel the force of the wind pushing against your body.  You are affixed to the ground, so unless it's a hurricane you stay where you are.  Airplanes feel the force, too, only once airborne they are not affixed to the ground, and the wind will push them in the direction the air mass is travelling.  This means that an airplane's path across the ground may not correlate to its heading.  Pilots are taught this very early in training, where they have to fly along a straight road with the wind pushing from one side, they have to hold a "wind correction angle" heading to compensate.  This is strictly observable with one's eyes and senses, so it perfectly adheres to the FE method of direct observation.

Here's a diagram to illustrate:



This aircraft is trying to get to an airport due south at a distance of 100 nautical miles.  The wind is blowing from the west at 20 knots.  At an airspeed of 100 knots, it will take the plane one hour to travel 100 nm, during which time the wind pushes the airplane to the east a distance of 20 nm (80 knots over one hour).  The plane’s track across the ground, rather than being 180 degrees, is 169 degrees.  To compensate, the aircraft would instead fly a heading of 191 degrees as shown in the diagram.  Over the hour, the wind pushes the plane to the east and over the airport.  Remember that this isn’t happening suddenly, like after that hour is up the plane is suddenly shoved 20 miles to the east.  It happens gradually over the course of the flight.  So wind, air masses, friction, drag all play a part in the aircraft’s performance and ground path.  Faster airplanes can overcome stronger winds; a commercial jet travelling at 450 knots would need that same 10 degree correction to compensate for an 80 knot wind.  This is not difficult, we do it all the time.

Now let’s take a look at the force the plane must overcome on a round Earth and come up with a heading correction to compensate.  The difference in orbital velocities between LYR and LLEK is 299 m/s.  Like the wind correction, the airplane does not have to overcome this in one instant.  Rather, it is spread throughout the duration of the flight.  The two airports are 5,251 km, or 2,836 nm apart.  Most commercial jet aircraft travel at an airspeed around 450 knots.  It will take an airplane 6 hours and 18 minutes to cover that distance (this does not include time spent during climb and maneuvering to land).  That is 378 minutes.  So the airplane must overcome a difference in lateral force of only 0.791 m/s for each minute of travel.  This… is not hard.  On an airless world the rotation would act similarly to a 91 knot wind (remember, it's over more than 6 hours).  A jet travelling at 450 knots would need at most a 12 degree heading correction to compensate.  We don’t even feel the change in orbital velocity because it happens so gradually.

But we're not on an airless world, and as has been pointed out the air mass is rotating along with the Earth because friction (Try your rotating drill bit experiment, then leave the room for 4 billion years, see what happens to the local air mass.  Remember to scale everything correctly.)  At the opposite end is space, where there is no external force acting on the upper layers of the atmosphere to counteract or slow down the rotation of the atmosphere.  So the movement of the atmosphere along with the rotation of the planet would do a large part in negating the need for that 12 degree heading correction.  It's why pilots only consider wind when planning a flight, not orbital velocity.

If we were to teleport the airplane from LYR to LLEK in an instant, yes you would have a problem.  But this isn’t happening.  Nothing to do with the atmosphere moving along with the Earth, making all the discussion of thermal and velocity boundary layers irrelevant.  It has to do with the air acting as a force on the airplane due to drag, and the insignificant rate of change in orbital velocity.

The Earth is a big place, and what seems like insurmountable forces are actually quite weak when given the scale.  Take, for example, the FE meme of a wet spinning tennis ball, trying to estimate it moving at 1000 mph and watching the water go flying in all directions.  But that’s not an equivalent model.  The Earth rotates once per day.  So spin the tennis ball at one revolution per day, and see how much water goes flying off.  None.

In case anyone questions my experience in aviation, I'm an airline captain with over 13,000 hours.  I’m happy to answer any questions.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #117 on: July 23, 2017, 02:58:41 AM »
Thank you for taking the time to write this very good explanation, but your explanation deals with crosswinds, which would be also true on a Flat Earth.

The problem with this explanation, it assumes that the air moves along with the spinning earth.

If this is the case, then we need to have a Convection Heat Transfer Model of a spinning Sphere that radiates to its environment, just like the earth does.

We need to show the Velocity Boundary Layers to see up to what height the air will moving with the spinning sphere.

Let’s assume that in this model, we can show that the air will move for a height of 100 miles, then yes you will be correct and the air will synchronize any object that is within that boundary layers.

If on the other hand, the velocity boundary layer will only be say 20 meters, then this will disprove this concept.

As an airline captain that has over 13,000 hour of flying hours, let me ask you this simple question. Every how many minutes do you dip your airplane down to be in sync with the supposed Earth Curvature?

What routes do you fly, just in the USA or do you do transatlantic flights also.
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

savagepilot

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #118 on: July 23, 2017, 03:24:53 AM »
Thank you for taking the time to write this very good explanation, but your explanation deals with crosswinds, which would be also true on a Flat Earth.

The crosswind demonstrates two things:  that the force you are looking for is drag from the air mass, and that even on an airless surface the plane (spacecraft, I guess...) would only need 12 degrees to compensate for the spinning planet beneath.


As an airline captain that has over 13,000 hour of flying hours, let me ask you this simple question. Every how many minutes do you dip your airplane down to be in sync with the supposed Earth Curvature?

What routes do you fly, just in the USA or do you do transatlantic flights also.


I won't lie, from a FE standpoint that's an excellent question.  But just to understand, for what purpose do you suppose I need to dip down?

Are you referring to allowing the spinning winds to catch me up to speed or to keep pushing the nose over lest I fly off the planet?  If it's the former, then never because because the winds at altitude, while blowing, also have an orbital velocity of their own.  It is common to find winds out of the west exceeding 150 knots in the winter.  Any jet can easily compensate.  Wind corrections might be 20-30 degrees.  No problem.

If the latter, then also never.  The force of gravity is perpendicular to the surface of the earth.  It always acts straight down.  Lift on an airplane acts exactly opposite gravity, its vector is always straight up.  As the surface of the earth curves, the force of gravity would be at an angle between two different points on the globe, as seen from an outside reference such as space.  We don't care, because we are inside the reference, and can also never be at two places at once.  So from our reference, gravity is always down, towards the center of the earth.  As we travel across the surface, the airplane is maintaining a constant pressure altitude.  As the atmosphere curves with the earth, so must the airplane's flight path over the horizon due to both the changing angle of gravity (as seen only from an outside reference) and the curve of the atmosphere.

A quick insight on the atmosphere and how an airplane maintains altitude:  The pressure of the atmosphere decreases as we increase in altitude.  This has been proven time and again by carrying a barometer up a mountain.  Airplanes maintain altitude by holding a constant air pressure (called "pressure altitude).  The actual height above ground will vary slightly as the air mass changes; pressure increases will cause the airplane to climb a bit to maintain the desired pressure.


I've flown all over North America, and am currently in Japan.

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rabinoz

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #119 on: July 23, 2017, 03:47:43 AM »
Thank you for taking the time to write this very good explanation, but your explanation deals with crosswinds, which would be also true on a Flat Earth.

The problem with this explanation, it assumes that the air moves along with the spinning earth.
Yes, it does and that is because that is what happens.

Quote from: InFlatEarth
If this is the case, then we need to have a Convection Heat Transfer Model of a spinning Sphere that radiates to its environment, just like the earth does.

We need to show the Velocity Boundary Layers to see up to what height the air will moving with the spinning sphere.

Let’s assume that in this model, we can show that the air will move for a height of 100 miles, then yes you will be correct and the air will synchronize any object that is within that boundary layers.

If on the other hand, the velocity boundary layer will only be say 20 meters, then this will disprove this concept.
The answer is simply:
  • The atmosphere initially came from the rotating earth, so it started out rotating with the earth.
  • There is nothing outside the earth to slow down the rotating atmosphere.
  • Air, like any fluid, has viscosity, so the the rotation of the air in contact with earth will couple (slightly) to the air above.
  • Convection currents caused by thermals, diffusion and turbulence will further assist the mixing.
But, since there is no friction outside the atmosphere, there us very little necessity for anything to keep it rotating with the earth.

Quote from: InFlatEarth
As an airline captain that has over 13,000 hour of flying hours, let me ask you this simple question. Every how many minutes do you dip your airplane down to be in sync with the supposed Earth Curvature?

What routes do you fly, just in the USA or do you do transatlantic flights also.
There is simply no need to conciously "dip the plane down". All that has to be done is to keep to the same altitude.
The altimeter reads the pressure altitude, following that automatically "follows" the curvature.
In any case effect is very small, with the angle being only 1° every 111 km.
You of course will know all in this video,  but others might be interested.

Do aircraft pitch down to follow the curvature of the Earth?