The existence of God

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 03:14:34 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 01:32:41 AM

Asking if God cares about us is not the same thing as asking if we care about ourselves. As one is theoretically infinitely smarter and more aware than the other.

A single brain cell might look independent under a microscope, where in fact; its a tiny part of a major network!
Earth is a tiny little ball spinning independently in space, where in fact it's connected by "an invisible force" to a bigger solar system, to a much bigger galaxy, and to what looks to us like an infinite constellation!

The goodness in me, in you, in him, and in everybody else is also connected by "an invisible force" - that acts independently in every person, and act as a whole in a different realm! Everything around us is made up of energy. To attract positive things in your life, start by giving off positive energy.

“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience” – Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

But goodness is not an invisible force. It takes place in the brain and is another part of all the electrical pulses that give us our consciousness.
Can you respond to my previous response?

I thought I did!

But, let me ask you something - those generated pulses and feelings in you; do they remain in you or do you pass them to others?

I am connected to my wife, to my children, to my family and friends with an "invisible force" called love - which is the result of passing on the goodness in me to others! > You don't see that connection, but you feel it!

Imagine if every individual can build a network of connected goodness/ love around him > with time, that network will expand and expand until it meets and interacts with other networks communicating on the same frequency > it's only ONE frequency that connects us all, which is LOVE!

This is how God (the whole) cares about us, when we start caring about ourselves and those around us - make the connection, and build the network ...

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 03:52:06 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 03:14:34 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 01:32:41 AM

Asking if God cares about us is not the same thing as asking if we care about ourselves. As one is theoretically infinitely smarter and more aware than the other.

A single brain cell might look independent under a microscope, where in fact; its a tiny part of a major network!
Earth is a tiny little ball spinning independently in space, where in fact it's connected by "an invisible force" to a bigger solar system, to a much bigger galaxy, and to what looks to us like an infinite constellation!

The goodness in me, in you, in him, and in everybody else is also connected by "an invisible force" - that acts independently in every person, and act as a whole in a different realm! Everything around us is made up of energy. To attract positive things in your life, start by giving off positive energy.

“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience” – Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

But goodness is not an invisible force. It takes place in the brain and is another part of all the electrical pulses that give us our consciousness.
Can you respond to my previous response?

I thought I did!

But, let me ask you something - those generated pulses and feelings in you; do they remain in you or do you pass them to others?

I am connected to my wife, to my children, to my family and friends with an "invisible force" called love - which is the result of passing on the goodness in me to others! > You don't see that connection, but you feel it!

Imagine if every individual can build a network of connected goodness/ love around him > with time, that network will expand and expand until it meets and interacts with other networks communicating on the same frequency > it's only ONE frequency that connects us all, which is LOVE!

This is how God (the whole) cares about us, when we start caring about ourselves and those around us - make the connection, and build the network ...

I constantly try to make myself and others do better, but my initiative is not the belief in a God. My initiative is how short and valuable life is, and every generation is a new opportunity to give the next generation a better life. I feel very connected to the world, as we are not separate from it. We are made of the universe (Literally) and just because our consciousness and senses give us a relative perspective, does not separate us from the rest of the universe. I feel that the idea of a soul gives us each a oneness, which feels nice, but its not true. If you think that God is a part of you, then what is the point of calling it God and not just yourself.
What do you mean by a self awareness realm? Is it a system in the universe that is, itself, conscious?

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 04:45:44 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 03:52:06 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 03:14:34 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 01:32:41 AM

Asking if God cares about us is not the same thing as asking if we care about ourselves. As one is theoretically infinitely smarter and more aware than the other.

A single brain cell might look independent under a microscope, where in fact; its a tiny part of a major network!
Earth is a tiny little ball spinning independently in space, where in fact it's connected by "an invisible force" to a bigger solar system, to a much bigger galaxy, and to what looks to us like an infinite constellation!

The goodness in me, in you, in him, and in everybody else is also connected by "an invisible force" - that acts independently in every person, and act as a whole in a different realm! Everything around us is made up of energy. To attract positive things in your life, start by giving off positive energy.

“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience” – Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

But goodness is not an invisible force. It takes place in the brain and is another part of all the electrical pulses that give us our consciousness.
Can you respond to my previous response?

I thought I did!

But, let me ask you something - those generated pulses and feelings in you; do they remain in you or do you pass them to others?

I am connected to my wife, to my children, to my family and friends with an "invisible force" called love - which is the result of passing on the goodness in me to others! > You don't see that connection, but you feel it!

Imagine if every individual can build a network of connected goodness/ love around him > with time, that network will expand and expand until it meets and interacts with other networks communicating on the same frequency > it's only ONE frequency that connects us all, which is LOVE!

This is how God (the whole) cares about us, when we start caring about ourselves and those around us - make the connection, and build the network ...

I constantly try to make myself and others do better, but my initiative is not the belief in a God. My initiative is how short and valuable life is, and every generation is a new opportunity to give the next generation a better life. I feel very connected to the world, as we are not separate from it. We are made of the universe (Literally) and just because our consciousness and senses give us a relative perspective, does not separate us from the rest of the universe. I feel that the idea of a soul gives us each a oneness, which feels nice, but its not true. If you think that God is a part of you, then what is the point of calling it God and not just yourself.
What do you mean by a self awareness realm? Is it a system in the universe that is, itself, conscious?

And how can you be inseparable from this universe if you are not connected to it?

We all know our lives are short and we all feel connected to this world – but, what if we die tomorrow? Is it end of story for us?

The only way you continue in the physical world is through the generation you leave behind you, but that doesn’t make it the end of you; because we are spiritual as well as physical > and all are energy, because the physical is only energy vibrating at certain frequency; tuned to the frequency of the earth. And, energy cannot just vanish after death; it just exists in a different dimension and a totally different realm.

How can you listen to your radio if you do not connect the plug to the electrical switch in your house, which is in turn connected to the main grid line? You get your power from the main power station and not from the switch on your wall.

Your soul is your identity as a member of humanity - we are all made of the same exact material; it’s the soul that distinguishes one from the other, and a character from the other > in a way it gives you your uniqueness and at the same time it makes you part of a bigger network/ humanity.

The self-awareness is the gist and essence of our experience in life – we start building it up the moment we make that connection - it gets bigger and spreads with the years, with every connection we make and with every credit we get for our good actions – those that count and those that remain behind us.

The self-awareness in every individual is an epitome of the whole – contained in ourselves when in the physical form and acts as one in a different realm > call it a system, a network, or whatever you wish, but remember; you have to be the initiative – the connection starts from you/ from the part to the whole > and once strongly connected, it sure works as a whole in you –throughout your life and after you let go your physical body.

When you have accepted the fact that you have become a part of the whole; then you have accepted God and God accepted you.

And when you only believe in your physical part and the physical world without a spiritual connection that will continue, soon the physical will become lifeless and rotten, and….

I must add here, if I may:

I noticed many people fear the "term" god and reject it from their lives; thinking it's some kind of entity we are obliged to obey and offer sacrifices to!

Okay; what if we change the "term" god into "good" - would that "O" make any difference in our belief, and would we still have that same fear?

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 06:40:52 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 04:45:44 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 03:52:06 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 03:14:34 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 01:32:41 AM

Asking if God cares about us is not the same thing as asking if we care about ourselves. As one is theoretically infinitely smarter and more aware than the other.

A single brain cell might look independent under a microscope, where in fact; its a tiny part of a major network!
Earth is a tiny little ball spinning independently in space, where in fact it's connected by "an invisible force" to a bigger solar system, to a much bigger galaxy, and to what looks to us like an infinite constellation!

The goodness in me, in you, in him, and in everybody else is also connected by "an invisible force" - that acts independently in every person, and act as a whole in a different realm! Everything around us is made up of energy. To attract positive things in your life, start by giving off positive energy.

“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience” – Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

But goodness is not an invisible force. It takes place in the brain and is another part of all the electrical pulses that give us our consciousness.
Can you respond to my previous response?

I thought I did!

But, let me ask you something - those generated pulses and feelings in you; do they remain in you or do you pass them to others?

I am connected to my wife, to my children, to my family and friends with an "invisible force" called love - which is the result of passing on the goodness in me to others! > You don't see that connection, but you feel it!

Imagine if every individual can build a network of connected goodness/ love around him > with time, that network will expand and expand until it meets and interacts with other networks communicating on the same frequency > it's only ONE frequency that connects us all, which is LOVE!

This is how God (the whole) cares about us, when we start caring about ourselves and those around us - make the connection, and build the network ...

I constantly try to make myself and others do better, but my initiative is not the belief in a God. My initiative is how short and valuable life is, and every generation is a new opportunity to give the next generation a better life. I feel very connected to the world, as we are not separate from it. We are made of the universe (Literally) and just because our consciousness and senses give us a relative perspective, does not separate us from the rest of the universe. I feel that the idea of a soul gives us each a oneness, which feels nice, but its not true. If you think that God is a part of you, then what is the point of calling it God and not just yourself.
What do you mean by a self awareness realm? Is it a system in the universe that is, itself, conscious?

And how can you be inseparable from this universe if you are not connected to it?

We all know our lives are short and we all feel connected to this world – but, what if we die tomorrow? Is it end of story for us?

The only way you continue in the physical world is through the generation you leave behind you, but that doesn’t make it the end of you; because we are spiritual as well as physical > and all are energy, because the physical is only energy vibrating at certain frequency; tuned to the frequency of the earth. And, energy cannot just vanish after death; it just exists in a different dimension and a totally different realm.

How can you listen to your radio if you do not connect the plug to the electrical switch in your house, which is in turn connected to the main grid line? You get your power from the main power station and not from the switch on your wall.

Your soul is your identity as a member of humanity - we are all made of the same exact material; it’s the soul that distinguishes one from the other, and a character from the other > in a way it gives you your uniqueness and at the same time it makes you part of a bigger network/ humanity.

The self-awareness is the gist and essence of our experience in life – we start building it up the moment we make that connection - it gets bigger and spreads with the years, with every connection we make and with every credit we get for our good actions – those that count and those that remain behind us.

The self-awareness in every individual is an epitome of the whole – contained in ourselves when in the physical form and acts as one in a different realm > call it a system, a network, or whatever you wish, but remember; you have to be the initiative – the connection starts from you/ from the part to the whole > and once strongly connected, it sure works as a whole in you –throughout your life and after you let go your physical body.

When you have accepted the fact that you have become a part of the whole; then you have accepted God and God accepted you.

And when you only believe in your physical part and the physical world without a spiritual connection that will continue, soon the physical will become lifeless and rotten, and….

So what your saying is that we have our physical body and our spiritual body, and what connects us to other living things is the spiritual? But why do we need the spiritual to  have connection with others? Hasn't science shown why we feel the need of love, group behavior and empathy? (Unless you have a different type of connection) The radio metaphor would not work here, as the radio tower, the grid, and the radio are all in the same dimension and can be explained with science. What is the purpose of calling "good", "God" if they are the same thing?

So what your saying is that we have our physical body and our spiritual body, and what connects us to other living things is the spiritual? But why do we need the spiritual to  have connection with others? Hasn't science shown why we feel the need of love, group behavior and empathy? (Unless you have a different type of connection) The radio metaphor would not work here, as the radio tower, the grid, and the radio are all in the same dimension and can be explained with science. What is the purpose of calling "good", "God" if they are the same thing?
[/quote]

ًWell, the summation of my intervention in one sentence:-

"Good" is the diminutive of "God" - all the good souls in Mankind belong to ONE category/ group called "God"!

I must add here, if I may:

I noticed many people fear the "term" god and reject it from their lives; thinking it's some kind of entity we are obliged to obey and offer sacrifices to!

Okay; what if we change the "term" god into "good" - would that "O" make any difference in our belief, and would we still have that same fear?

Shit is usually something people avoid to touch. If we removed the "h", would people be inclined to sit on it?

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 09:34:46 AM

I must add here, if I may:

I noticed many people fear the "term" god and reject it from their lives; thinking it's some kind of entity we are obliged to obey and offer sacrifices to!

Okay; what if we change the "term" god into "good" - would that "O" make any difference in our belief, and would we still have that same fear?

Shit is usually something people avoid to touch. If we removed the "h", would people be inclined to sit on it?

Do you believe you're a good person?

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 09:34:46 AM

I must add here, if I may:

I noticed many people fear the "term" god and reject it from their lives; thinking it's some kind of entity we are obliged to obey and offer sacrifices to!

Okay; what if we change the "term" god into "good" - would that "O" make any difference in our belief, and would we still have that same fear?

Shit is usually something people avoid to touch. If we removed the "h", would people be inclined to sit on it?

Yes if they were told it's sacred shit.
Like the shit some took during all the religious persecutions, present and past.
I know that some Jewish people had to hide their beliefs from their neighbours for some centuries? Because they were afraid of the love Catholics felt for them?

This religious craziness reached extremes. One example: if one of Jews was about to die, he was killed before the priest arrival to avoid the last sacraments! This happened until mid 20th century...

So, in my opinion, let's put religion in the right place: the trash can.

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on April 28, 2017, 03:09:11 PM

So what your saying is that we have our physical body and our spiritual body, and what connects us to other living things is the spiritual? But why do we need the spiritual to  have connection with others? Hasn't science shown why we feel the need of love, group behavior and empathy? (Unless you have a different type of connection) The radio metaphor would not work here, as the radio tower, the grid, and the radio are all in the same dimension and can be explained with science. What is the purpose of calling "good", "God" if they are the same thing?

ًWell, the summation of my intervention in one sentence:-

"Good" is the diminutive of "God" - all the good souls in Mankind belong to ONE category/ group called "God"!
[/quote]
But why do you believe in souls?

If you are dead set that there is no God, then there is no changing your own mind. God would have to do that. Truth is, He is sovereign, and in control of everything. If you laugh and scoff at that, then you are who you are. Exactly as God made you to be.

 If there is no God, I would lose nothing in death by believing and knowing there is why I'm still alive. That is, if I'm wrong, hypothetically speaking, and I died in a car wreck along with an atheist, we would both go on into nothing. Therefore, me believing there is something while I'm alive, will not effect the outcome of my situation when I die. So, if the atheist is right, while we were both alive, it really wouldn't matter in death. There would be nothing gained. Or lost. It simply wouldn't matter anymore.

But if I am right, and the atheist is wrong, everything stands the chance of being lost for him.

My personal opinion is that, whether there is a God or not, some divine entity must be controlling or overseeing events here. Otherwise, things would happen randomly and life would be meaningless.

The only way to have this theory be compatible with religion, is to believe that this entity has revealed itself to humanity in a
variety of occasions, and from this, stemmed the major religions of Catholocism, Judaism, and Islam

If you are dead set that there is no God, then there is no changing your own mind. God would have to do that. Truth is, He is sovereign, and in control of everything. If you laugh and scoff at that, then you are who you are. Exactly as God made you to be.

 If there is no God, I would lose nothing in death by believing and knowing there is why I'm still alive. That is, if I'm wrong, hypothetically speaking, and I died in a car wreck along with an atheist, we would both go on into nothing. Therefore, me believing there is something while I'm alive, will not effect the outcome of my situation when I die. So, if the atheist is right, while we were both alive, it really wouldn't matter in death. There would be nothing gained. Or lost. It simply wouldn't matter anymore.

But if I am right, and the atheist is wrong, everything stands the chance of being lost for him.

I honestly have no idea whether or not there is a God. I really want to know and understand the logic behind it because I've been reading the bible and some of the stuff in it don't make sense, and other things are just awful and things I would never devote my life to. And the idea of an eternal afterlife, doesn't make sense to me either.

My personal opinion is that, whether there is a God or not, some divine entity must be controlling or overseeing events here. Otherwise, things would happen randomly and life would be meaningless.

The only way to have this theory be compatible with religion, is to believe that this entity has revealed itself to humanity in a
variety of occasions, and from this, stemmed the major religions of Catholocism, Judaism, and Islam

Things aren't happening randomly though, there are laws that govern the universe keeping it in order. I don't know where these laws come from but I don't want to have to look to a God as the answer, at least until I see some evidence.
Also, the universe does not owe you meaning just because your alive. Luckily we have been given one: To pass on our genes to the next generation, and in turn, make sure that the next generation has a good life. Also, if there is no afterlife, that makes this life so much more important as it is all we have. We shouldn't waste a second of it.

Which, I suppose, proves my point. There are laws and rules that were pre-set somehow before life evolved on Earth, or even before it formed.

Now, I am a personal believer that all things in life happen for a reason, whether that reason can be seen or not. Just think of all the inventions that happened in a whim, or off a mistake. Life does not owe us purpose, this is true,
but somehow we were given one: survive and reproduce. Over time, we have built upon that to give us the luxuries of life we have today.

Quote from: gomwelder on May 03, 2017, 01:37:12 PM

If you are dead set that there is no God, then there is no changing your own mind. God would have to do that. Truth is, He is sovereign, and in control of everything. If you laugh and scoff at that, then you are who you are. Exactly as God made you to be.

 If there is no God, I would lose nothing in death by believing and knowing there is why I'm still alive. That is, if I'm wrong, hypothetically speaking, and I died in a car wreck along with an atheist, we would both go on into nothing. Therefore, me believing there is something while I'm alive, will not effect the outcome of my situation when I die. So, if the atheist is right, while we were both alive, it really wouldn't matter in death. There would be nothing gained. Or lost. It simply wouldn't matter anymore.

But if I am right, and the atheist is wrong, everything stands the chance of being lost for him.

I honestly have no idea whether or not there is a God. I really want to know and understand the logic behind it because I've been reading the bible and some of the stuff in it don't make sense, and other things are just awful and things I would never devote my life to. And the idea of an eternal afterlife, doesn't make sense to me either.

The Bible is not god, neither is a cross or a man - if those didn't make sense to you and confused you > then free yourself from being subjective to earthly matter and believe in the goodness in you!

God is not a stone to talk to and offer repentance > talk to yourself and be the judge of your actions and behavior, before you're judged by others.

If there were a God, he wouldn't ask you to do more than that!

God is NOT an entity, people - God is the goodness in us > just open your hearts and pass it on to others!

Fascinating theory, however I have a hard time believing that God is entirely goodness in all of us. Live isn't that forgiving. Live isn't all kindness. We have all seen how cruel and unforgiving life can be, which is why I'm not entirely sure God is just the goodness in all of us. I'm not saying its not true, just that I have a hard time believing that it is.

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 04, 2017, 01:22:39 AM

Quote from: gomwelder on May 03, 2017, 01:37:12 PM

If you are dead set that there is no God, then there is no changing your own mind. God would have to do that. Truth is, He is sovereign, and in control of everything. If you laugh and scoff at that, then you are who you are. Exactly as God made you to be.

 If there is no God, I would lose nothing in death by believing and knowing there is why I'm still alive. That is, if I'm wrong, hypothetically speaking, and I died in a car wreck along with an atheist, we would both go on into nothing. Therefore, me believing there is something while I'm alive, will not effect the outcome of my situation when I die. So, if the atheist is right, while we were both alive, it really wouldn't matter in death. There would be nothing gained. Or lost. It simply wouldn't matter anymore.

But if I am right, and the atheist is wrong, everything stands the chance of being lost for him.

I honestly have no idea whether or not there is a God. I really want to know and understand the logic behind it because I've been reading the bible and some of the stuff in it don't make sense, and other things are just awful and things I would never devote my life to. And the idea of an eternal afterlife, doesn't make sense to me either.

The Bible is not god, neither is a cross or a man - if those didn't make sense to you and confused you > then free yourself from being subjective to earthly matter and believe in the goodness in you!

God is not a stone to talk to and offer repentance > talk to yourself and be the judge of your actions and behavior, before you're judged by others.

If there were a God, he wouldn't ask you to do more than that!

God is NOT an entity, people - God is the goodness in us > just open your hearts and pass it on to others!

Ok, I believe in the goodness in me. I try to help others as much as I can. What is the point of calling it god? It is not supernatural and I do not need a belief in a soul to want to help others. As for freeing myself from earthly matter, I don't plan on rejecting all that I know and leaning on faith for my answers.

I cannot deny the goodness within a person, I'm just not sure it's God.

Quote from: Hannibaal on May 04, 2017, 04:52:17 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 04, 2017, 01:22:39 AM

Quote from: gomwelder on May 03, 2017, 01:37:12 PM

If you are dead set that there is no God, then there is no changing your own mind. God would have to do that. Truth is, He is sovereign, and in control of everything. If you laugh and scoff at that, then you are who you are. Exactly as God made you to be.

 If there is no God, I would lose nothing in death by believing and knowing there is why I'm still alive. That is, if I'm wrong, hypothetically speaking, and I died in a car wreck along with an atheist, we would both go on into nothing. Therefore, me believing there is something while I'm alive, will not effect the outcome of my situation when I die. So, if the atheist is right, while we were both alive, it really wouldn't matter in death. There would be nothing gained. Or lost. It simply wouldn't matter anymore.

But if I am right, and the atheist is wrong, everything stands the chance of being lost for him.

I honestly have no idea whether or not there is a God. I really want to know and understand the logic behind it because I've been reading the bible and some of the stuff in it don't make sense, and other things are just awful and things I would never devote my life to. And the idea of an eternal afterlife, doesn't make sense to me either.

The Bible is not god, neither is a cross or a man - if those didn't make sense to you and confused you > then free yourself from being subjective to earthly matter and believe in the goodness in you!

God is not a stone to talk to and offer repentance > talk to yourself and be the judge of your actions and behavior, before you're judged by others.

If there were a God, he wouldn't ask you to do more than that!

God is NOT an entity, people - God is the goodness in us > just open your hearts and pass it on to others!

Ok, I believe in the goodness in me. I try to help others as much as I can. What is the point of calling it god? It is not supernatural and I do not need a belief in a soul to want to help others. As for freeing myself from earthly matter, I don't plan on rejecting all that I know and leaning on faith for my answers.

Then don't call it anything!

Why do we keep looking for imaginary physical gods, to see to believe in? Why?
The goodness in you and the one in me share the same properties and same effects on us and others around us?
It's power - generated pulses of the same nature in all of us.
You are not just a physical being > you are a sentient being!

Love is generated feelings and emotions - so, why call it love?
It's a power that you can't see, but you can feel!
You can feel another person thousands of miles away from you with that power - which has split and rested in two hearts, where it belongs and from where it's launched.

All 7 billion people around the planet share a part of that power, which have the same qualities and effects on all.
It's a power, which is not physical, vibrations on a different dimension and different realm, has same effects on all sentient beings and shields them like a magnetic field - imagine 7 billion "magnetic fields" of same frequency and same vibration > wouldn't that power occupy a realm of existence somewhere, somehow?

And what I meant by freeing yourself from earthly matter was; you don't need a physical god to believe in - whether it's a man, a cross, a statue or a book, and certainly didn't mean to let go and reject everything to follow a faith!
By freeing yourself from that kind of submission and limitation, the goodness in you will take over and get bigger and expands.

So, don't call the goodness in you any other than what it means, just believe in it and believe you're a good person.
If I were God, I wouldn't ask anymore of you to do - just be a good person, and that should be good enough for me!

These emotions are powerful forces, this is true. Goodness and love probably hold the world together. I'm simply trying to find a meaning as to why these laws that were pre made before humans exist, and how everything came to be. Something must be in control of it all, and I don't mean goodness.

Experimentor, we are not inherently good. Just take a look around at the world. The good we perceive in us is not really good at all, when it's measured against the standard of what goodness really is. The world was created good. Men too. But it was corrupted by evil. Angels rebelled at the beginning. Came down to Earth and taught all sorts of wicked things to men. God punished them and put them in chains. They are unredeemable for what they have done. None of this caught God by surprise. It was part of his plan from the very beginning. Nothing is by chance. Both good and evil have its purpose and destination. God showed grace (unmerited favor) to a few in the world. He did not have to do this. But he did, out of his own good will and pleasure. Those are called the elect of God. Elect means chosen. Not by any choice of their own. They don't choose God. He chooses them. God's method of salvation to the elect is their salvation. It's humbling. No room for pride. Jesus did not die for the whole world. He died to redeem his people. The elect. God would not send anyone he loves to Hell for eternity. This is a lie. He does not do that. The ones that go to Hell, were preordained for it. They were created for it. God chose to show his wrath and justice on them. Hard truths. But true. If you hear it, then you were given ears to hear. If not, then you were not...The battle for the elect is against the world, the god of this world (Satan), demons (evil spirits of the dead giants, Nephilim), the flesh (because it loves the world and the things in it). It's a lot to fight. And they hit you hard. Sometimes blatantly. Sometimes very deceptively. But the elect is the real enemy of them all. They are their primary targets and focus. And they hate them with a passion. But in the end, which is not very far away at all, God will cast out all evil and sin forever. And the elect will be given a safe place refuge. Forever. With God.

thanks gomwelder, but i think we're trying to stay away from religious opinions at the moment. We're trying to come up with our own theories as far as the existence of God or not, and while your response is welcomed, I'm trying to steer away from getting anybody offended based on a religious opinion.

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on April 30, 2017, 10:53:00 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 09:34:46 AM

I must add here, if I may:

I noticed many people fear the "term" god and reject it from their lives; thinking it's some kind of entity we are obliged to obey and offer sacrifices to!

Okay; what if we change the "term" god into "good" - would that "O" make any difference in our belief, and would we still have that same fear?

Shit is usually something people avoid to touch. If we removed the "h", would people be inclined to sit on it?

Do you believe you're a good person?

No idea why you're asking me that. But yes, I'd say I'm a good person generally. I don't believe I've ever done anything to hurt someone and I always try to help people any way I can.

These emotions are powerful forces, this is true. Goodness and love probably hold the world together. I'm simply trying to find a meaning as to why these laws that were pre made before humans exist, and how everything came to be. Something must be in control of it all, and I don't mean goodness.

If you believe love and goodness hold the world together, then would you expect that "thing" that controls everything to have different laws of love and goodness?

That thing is definitely light and not darkness. > Love would open your heart and free you from the darkness and from the fear of the unknown.
That thing must have laws and order, or everything in the universe would exist in chaos, or maybe couldn't exist.

That thing is power manifested in light, love, laws, order & goodness > when you use that power in your life, then you are in direct contact with the creator and you act as one by creating your own consciousness "the god in you"!

Don't waste your time and effort in trying to understand the picture as a "Whole" - you will eventually come to understand it by starting with yourself - creating the god in you > which will connect you to the whole!

The switch to that connection is in your heart > and you don't need a surgeon to turn it on from the inside!

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 04, 2017, 05:13:36 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on May 04, 2017, 04:52:17 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 04, 2017, 01:22:39 AM

Quote from: gomwelder on May 03, 2017, 01:37:12 PM

If you are dead set that there is no God, then there is no changing your own mind. God would have to do that. Truth is, He is sovereign, and in control of everything. If you laugh and scoff at that, then you are who you are. Exactly as God made you to be.

 If there is no God, I would lose nothing in death by believing and knowing there is why I'm still alive. That is, if I'm wrong, hypothetically speaking, and I died in a car wreck along with an atheist, we would both go on into nothing. Therefore, me believing there is something while I'm alive, will not effect the outcome of my situation when I die. So, if the atheist is right, while we were both alive, it really wouldn't matter in death. There would be nothing gained. Or lost. It simply wouldn't matter anymore.

But if I am right, and the atheist is wrong, everything stands the chance of being lost for him.

I honestly have no idea whether or not there is a God. I really want to know and understand the logic behind it because I've been reading the bible and some of the stuff in it don't make sense, and other things are just awful and things I would never devote my life to. And the idea of an eternal afterlife, doesn't make sense to me either.

The Bible is not god, neither is a cross or a man - if those didn't make sense to you and confused you > then free yourself from being subjective to earthly matter and believe in the goodness in you!

God is not a stone to talk to and offer repentance > talk to yourself and be the judge of your actions and behavior, before you're judged by others.

If there were a God, he wouldn't ask you to do more than that!

God is NOT an entity, people - God is the goodness in us > just open your hearts and pass it on to others!

Ok, I believe in the goodness in me. I try to help others as much as I can. What is the point of calling it god? It is not supernatural and I do not need a belief in a soul to want to help others. As for freeing myself from earthly matter, I don't plan on rejecting all that I know and leaning on faith for my answers.

Then don't call it anything!

Why do we keep looking for imaginary physical gods, to see to believe in? Why?
The goodness in you and the one in me share the same properties and same effects on us and others around us?
It's power - generated pulses of the same nature in all of us.
You are not just a physical being > you are a sentient being!

Love is generated feelings and emotions - so, why call it love?
It's a power that you can't see, but you can feel!
You can feel another person thousands of miles away from you with that power - which has split and rested in two hearts, where it belongs and from where it's launched.

All 7 billion people around the planet share a part of that power, which have the same qualities and effects on all.
It's a power, which is not physical, vibrations on a different dimension and different realm, has same effects on all sentient beings and shields them like a magnetic field - imagine 7 billion "magnetic fields" of same frequency and same vibration > wouldn't that power occupy a realm of existence somewhere, somehow?

And what I meant by freeing yourself from earthly matter was; you don't need a physical god to believe in - whether it's a man, a cross, a statue or a book, and certainly didn't mean to let go and reject everything to follow a faith!
By freeing yourself from that kind of submission and limitation, the goodness in you will take over and get bigger and expands.

So, don't call the goodness in you any other than what it means, just believe in it and believe you're a good person.
If I were God, I wouldn't ask anymore of you to do - just be a good person, and that should be good enough for me!

So is your definition of god, the love that humans have for each other that keeps us from going into anarchy? I can understand that. Do you believe it is a supernatural force? And do you think that this is the same force that created us?

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 30, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on April 30, 2017, 10:53:00 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 09:34:46 AM

I must add here, if I may:

I noticed many people fear the "term" god and reject it from their lives; thinking it's some kind of entity we are obliged to obey and offer sacrifices to!

Okay; what if we change the "term" god into "good" - would that "O" make any difference in our belief, and would we still have that same fear?

Shit is usually something people avoid to touch. If we removed the "h", would people be inclined to sit on it?

Do you believe you're a good person?

No idea why you're asking me that. But yes, I'd say I'm a good person generally. I don't believe I've ever done anything to hurt someone and I always try to help people any way I can.

Thank you for answering that question honestly, and I wasn't trying to be sarcastic in my question either - I had a point, indeed!

My second question would be; "if" there were to be a God - a creator and a sustainer of His creation, would you truly believe he would ask you to be anything other than good, or to do other than good deeds in your life?

This is the kind of god I believe in - and I start by believing in the goodness in me, because, I believe following that path would never lead me to evilness, to darkness or to the unknown!

Having lived by this concept and by this law in your life, surely you'd leave this life with a clear conscious and without any fear of the unknown or of what you'd expect to find on the other side!

God is simply a faith and a path!

Quote from: Hannibaal on May 04, 2017, 10:34:51 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 04, 2017, 05:13:36 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on May 04, 2017, 04:52:17 AM

Quote from: Physical Experimenter on May 04, 2017, 01:22:39 AM

Quote from: gomwelder on May 03, 2017, 01:37:12 PM

If you are dead set that there is no God, then there is no changing your own mind. God would have to do that. Truth is, He is sovereign, and in control of everything. If you laugh and scoff at that, then you are who you are. Exactly as God made you to be.

 If there is no God, I would lose nothing in death by believing and knowing there is why I'm still alive. That is, if I'm wrong, hypothetically speaking, and I died in a car wreck along with an atheist, we would both go on into nothing. Therefore, me believing there is something while I'm alive, will not effect the outcome of my situation when I die. So, if the atheist is right, while we were both alive, it really wouldn't matter in death. There would be nothing gained. Or lost. It simply wouldn't matter anymore.

But if I am right, and the atheist is wrong, everything stands the chance of being lost for him.

I honestly have no idea whether or not there is a God. I really want to know and understand the logic behind it because I've been reading the bible and some of the stuff in it don't make sense, and other things are just awful and things I would never devote my life to. And the idea of an eternal afterlife, doesn't make sense to me either.

The Bible is not god, neither is a cross or a man - if those didn't make sense to you and confused you > then free yourself from being subjective to earthly matter and believe in the goodness in you!

God is not a stone to talk to and offer repentance > talk to yourself and be the judge of your actions and behavior, before you're judged by others.

If there were a God, he wouldn't ask you to do more than that!

God is NOT an entity, people - God is the goodness in us > just open your hearts and pass it on to others!

Ok, I believe in the goodness in me. I try to help others as much as I can. What is the point of calling it god? It is not supernatural and I do not need a belief in a soul to want to help others. As for freeing myself from earthly matter, I don't plan on rejecting all that I know and leaning on faith for my answers.

Then don't call it anything!

Why do we keep looking for imaginary physical gods, to see to believe in? Why?
The goodness in you and the one in me share the same properties and same effects on us and others around us?
It's power - generated pulses of the same nature in all of us.
You are not just a physical being > you are a sentient being!

Love is generated feelings and emotions - so, why call it love?
It's a power that you can't see, but you can feel!
You can feel another person thousands of miles away from you with that power - which has split and rested in two hearts, where it belongs and from where it's launched.

All 7 billion people around the planet share a part of that power, which have the same qualities and effects on all.
It's a power, which is not physical, vibrations on a different dimension and different realm, has same effects on all sentient beings and shields them like a magnetic field - imagine 7 billion "magnetic fields" of same frequency and same vibration > wouldn't that power occupy a realm of existence somewhere, somehow?

And what I meant by freeing yourself from earthly matter was; you don't need a physical god to believe in - whether it's a man, a cross, a statue or a book, and certainly didn't mean to let go and reject everything to follow a faith!
By freeing yourself from that kind of submission and limitation, the goodness in you will take over and get bigger and expands.

So, don't call the goodness in you any other than what it means, just believe in it and believe you're a good person.
If I were God, I wouldn't ask anymore of you to do - just be a good person, and that should be good enough for me!

So is your definition of god, the love that humans have for each other that keeps us from going into anarchy? I can understand that. Do you believe it is a supernatural force? And do you think that this is the same force that created us?

I'd rather believe something good created me, than to believe I was the result of a massive chaotic explosion, or I have an ape for a great grandfather! 

Ok. I will refrain from posting any further. But that is not my opinion. If I were allowed to have my own opinions about who God says He is, I would be way off. I would distort it to my own likings. I would make it agreeable. And fashion a false narrative. And I did for a very long time. Until God, through tragedy and hard knocks, knocked me out of it...It is the opinion of God about himself as he plainly tells us that we must either deny or accept. The truth about truth is that it is usually not agreeable, unoffensive, and readily accepted. Maybe that's why we often say, 'The truth hurts'. But like I said, I will not post any further on the thread.

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on May 04, 2017, 11:17:50 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 30, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Quote from: Definitely Not Official on April 30, 2017, 10:53:00 AM

Quote from: Hannibaal on April 28, 2017, 09:34:46 AM

I must add here, if I may:

I noticed many people fear the "term" god and reject it from their lives; thinking it's some kind of entity we are obliged to obey and offer sacrifices to!

Okay; what if we change the "term" god into "good" - would that "O" make any difference in our belief, and would we still have that same fear?

Shit is usually something people avoid to touch. If we removed the "h", would people be inclined to sit on it?

Do you believe you're a good person?

No idea why you're asking me that. But yes, I'd say I'm a good person generally. I don't believe I've ever done anything to hurt someone and I always try to help people any way I can.

Thank you for answering that question honestly, and I wasn't trying to be sarcastic in my question either - I had a point, indeed!

My second question would be; "if" there were to be a God - a creator and a sustainer of His creation, would you truly believe he would ask you to be anything other than good, or to do other than good deeds in your life?

This is the kind of god I believe in - and I start by believing in the goodness in me, because, I believe following that path would never lead me to evilness, to darkness or to the unknown!

Having lived by this concept and by this law in your life, surely you'd leave this life with a clear conscious and without any fear of the unknown or of what you'd expect to find on the other side!

God is simply a faith and a path!

I have no idea what a creator would want me to do and if that would be "good" or "bad". There is no way of knowing. So I just accept that I have no idea. Besides, what's good and what's bad? If a God existed, wouldn't his moral compass be absolute? Or would it not? Would he break his own rules? Would rules even apply to him? No idea.

I can understand why your faith in God assures you and helps you fight your fear for the unknown. But I can't do that. I prefer to know that I'm ignorant than to impose false sense of certainty onto myself. Certainty is like a drug that makes you think you're happy and relieves your guilt. Just like drugs, every high is followed by a vast feeling of emptiness when you realize that it was all fake. I would never be able to convince myself that it's not fake. And that's why I'm an agnostic. I embrace that I have no idea, and just walk into the unknown without knowing what I will encounter. Of course I'm afraid of the unknown. But it's also in a way exciting.