Air Pressure vs Gravity

Quote from: markjo on February 22, 2017, 10:24:35 AM

For starters. modern aircraft design requires a pretty intimate understanding of air pressure in order to design wings that provide optimal lift under various conditions.
  Ship designers need a true understanding of density and displacement if they want their very large steel ships to float.
 Integrated circuit manufacturers need to understand how vapor deposition works in a near perfect vacuum.
 Weather forecasting is all about understanding how high and low pressure systems form and interact.  Internal combustion engines for autos are very interested in making sure that they have a pretty good handle on air pressures at various stages of the combustion cycle.

Are you starting to get the point?

Nope, because I know all this.
What I'd like to know is how you add gravity into the mix for all of this.
I'm happy with density and air pressure and such, even if it's told in a different way, sort of.
Tell me why gravity is required and show me how that's measured into the mix for a plane and a ship and such.
Try not to say something like, " because it just is, Newton knew it."  Or stuff like that.
Try and help me to, GET IT.

Without gravity, the plane would simply float.  Don't get me wrong that might be pretty cool, but there would be nothing holding it to the ground to begin with.  If it started on the ground it would require some kind of force to lift it off the ground initially. But only enough to overcome its inertia.
Once said force was applied it would continue in the direction that force pushed it until another force acted on it.
So if we pushed it up (lets say there is a ground, starting point) it would continue to go up, requiring no additional force to keep it moving.  There are those here that can do the math to show you exactly how much force versus how much mass/inertia but I'm not one of them.
Now, let's say we have atmosphere in this gravityless world.  The plane would experience some degree of resistance from the air, though the shape of the plane is designed to minimize this.  That friction would eventually slow the plane to a halt.  It would then simply hang there in the air until some other force acted upon it.  There would be no reason for it to fall.

Quote from: PawnedScum on February 22, 2017, 08:01:52 AM

It works because atmospheric pressure is capable of supporting a column of water up to a certain point.

How is atmospheric pressure supporting this column of water under a acrylic dome?
Nice basic explanations are key and I might be able to help you...or others understand denpressure.

Quote from: PawnedScum on February 22, 2017, 08:01:52 AM

  Have him try to do it in a dome that is much higher and it wouldn't work because of gravity and the weight of the water column.  The effect is measurable and it's why a mercury barometer works.

Tell me why a higher dome will not fill with water if you scoop out the air?

Atmospheric pressure can only lift up to around 10.3m of water.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 12:07:55 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 22, 2017, 10:24:35 AM

For starters. modern aircraft design requires a pretty intimate understanding of air pressure in order to design wings that provide optimal lift under various conditions.
  Ship designers need a true understanding of density and displacement if they want their very large steel ships to float.
 Integrated circuit manufacturers need to understand how vapor deposition works in a near perfect vacuum.
 Weather forecasting is all about understanding how high and low pressure systems form and interact.  Internal combustion engines for autos are very interested in making sure that they have a pretty good handle on air pressures at various stages of the combustion cycle.

Are you starting to get the point?

Nope, because I know all this.
What I'd like to know is how you add gravity into the mix for all of this.
I'm happy with density and air pressure and such, even if it's told in a different way, sort of.
Tell me why gravity is required and show me how that's measured into the mix for a plane and a ship and such.
Try not to say something like, " because it just is, Newton knew it."  Or stuff like that.
Try and help me to, GET IT.

Without gravity, the plane would simply float.  Don't get me wrong that might be pretty cool, but there would be nothing holding it to the ground to begin with.  If it started on the ground it would require some kind of force to lift it off the ground initially. But only enough to overcome its inertia.
Once said force was applied it would continue in the direction that force pushed it until another force acted on it.
So if we pushed it up (lets say there is a ground, starting point) it would continue to go up, requiring no additional force to keep it moving.  There are those here that can do the math to show you exactly how much force versus how much mass/inertia but I'm not one of them.
Now, let's say we have atmosphere in this gravityless world.  The plane would experience some degree of resistance from the air, though the shape of the plane is designed to minimize this.  That friction would eventually slow the plane to a halt.  It would then simply hang there in the air until some other force acted upon it.  There would be no reason for it to fall.

I honestly don't think you even know what you're saying.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 22, 2017, 08:10:12 AM

Quote from: PawnedScum on February 22, 2017, 08:01:52 AM

It works because atmospheric pressure is capable of supporting a column of water up to a certain point.

How is atmospheric pressure supporting this column of water under a acrylic dome?
Nice basic explanations are key and I might be able to help you...or others understand denpressure.

Quote from: PawnedScum on February 22, 2017, 08:01:52 AM

  Have him try to do it in a dome that is much higher and it wouldn't work because of gravity and the weight of the water column.  The effect is measurable and it's why a mercury barometer works.

Tell me why a higher dome will not fill with water if you scoop out the air?

Atmospheric pressure can only lift up to around 10.3m of water.

Read what I said.

When will we see some prove of Scepimatic's claims.
All he does is only saying that his pressure idea does work and every argument against it is false or it is made up by scientists. 
He never ever did brought up one prove for his claims. 
He never ever did one experiment to test his idea.
The only thing he does is to think about it and construct a world around it that fits this idea.

When will we see some prove of Scepimatic's claims.
All he does is only saying that his pressure idea does work and every argument against it is false or it is made up by scientists. 
He never ever did brought up one prove for his claims. 
He never ever did one experiment to test his idea.
The only thing he does is to think about it and construct a world around it that fits this idea.

Who are you typing to?
Are you on stage in front of some kind of audience talking about me?
If this is all you have left then why are you even bothering with anything I say?

If what I say, is nothing, then surely you have no further need to type to me to continue to get nothing.
Just give it up and get on with your life.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 02:25:04 AM

When will we see some prove of Scepimatic's claims.
All he does is only saying that his pressure idea does work and every argument against it is false or it is made up by scientists. 
He never ever did brought up one prove for his claims. 
He never ever did one experiment to test his idea.
The only thing he does is to think about it and construct a world around it that fits this idea.

Who are you typing to?
Are you on stage in front of some kind of audience talking about me?
If this is all you have left then why are you even bothering with anything I say?

If what I say, is nothing, then surely you have no further need to type to me to continue to get nothing.
Just give it up and get on with your life.

It was for people here that reads your claims and maybe thinking about to believe you.  To show them that that whole pressure idea of you is only in your head and that here is not one prove for it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 02:47:13 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 02:25:04 AM

When will we see some prove of Scepimatic's claims.
All he does is only saying that his pressure idea does work and every argument against it is false or it is made up by scientists. 
He never ever did brought up one prove for his claims. 
He never ever did one experiment to test his idea.
The only thing he does is to think about it and construct a world around it that fits this idea.

Who are you typing to?
Are you on stage in front of some kind of audience talking about me?
If this is all you have left then why are you even bothering with anything I say?

If what I say, is nothing, then surely you have no further need to type to me to continue to get nothing.
Just give it up and get on with your life.

It was for people here that reads your claims and maybe thinking about to believe you.  To show them that that whole pressure idea of you is only in your head and that here is not one prove for it.

Ok, no problem. Now you can just leave it up to each person to decide if they want to grasp it or can grasp it or do not want to, or even dismiss it as nonsense.
You don't really need to take any further part, because it's more than clear you have no clue as to what you're trying to dismiss, so leave it alone for your own sanity.

Ok, no problem. Now you can just leave it up to each person to decide if they want to grasp it or can grasp it or do not want to, or even dismiss it as nonsense.
You don't really need to take any further part, because it's more than clear you have no clue as to what you're trying to dismiss, so leave it alone for your own sanity.

I believe that I could improve on that for you

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 03:37:28 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 02:47:13 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 02:25:04 AM

When will we see some prove of Scepimatic's claims.
All he does is only saying that his pressure idea does work and every argument against it is false or it is made up by scientists. 
He never ever did brought up one prove for his claims. 
He never ever did one experiment to test his idea.
The only thing he does is to think about it and construct a world around it that fits this idea.

Who are you typing to?
Are you on stage in front of some kind of audience talking about me?
If this is all you have left then why are you even bothering with anything I say?

If what I say, is nothing, then surely you have no further need to type to me to continue to get nothing.
Just give it up and get on with your life.

It was for people here that reads your claims and maybe thinking about to believe you.  To show them that that whole pressure idea of you is only in your head and that here is not one prove for it.

Ok, no problem. Now you can just leave it up to each person to decide if they want to grasp it or can grasp it or do not want to, or even dismiss it as nonsense.
You don't really need to take any further part, because it's more than clear you have no clue as to what you're trying to dismiss, so leave it alone for your own sanity.

i can not leave it to that only you tell your idea without telling the whole story.
you miss to tell the flaws in your idea and also you do not tell that you have no proven evidence for your idea.
If somebody shall make a decision they have to hear the full story.
The only thing you do is telling that people that do not agree with your idea are not smart enough to understand your idea. And than it happend that some people than say they believe you only because they do not like to be called stupid.
That is not the way to present an idea.

Why do not you live your life with your pressure idea and do not try to convince other people to believe in your idea?

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 04:14:13 AM

Ok, no problem. Now you can just leave it up to each person to decide if they want to grasp it or can grasp it or do not want to, or even dismiss it as nonsense.
You don't really need to take any further part, because it's more than clear you have no clue as to what you're trying to dismiss, so leave it alone for your own sanity.

I believe that I could improve on that for you

"Now you can just leave it up to each person to decide if they want to fall for this nonsense or do not want to, or even better still dismiss it as the complete nonsense that it is."

However you want to word it.

i can not leave it to that only you tell your idea without telling the whole story.
you miss to tell the flaws in your idea and also you do not tell that you have no proven evidence for your idea.
If somebody shall make a decision they have to hear the full story.
The only thing you do is telling that people that do not agree with your idea are not smart enough to understand your idea. And than it happend that some people than say they believe you only because they do not like to be called stupid.
That is not the way to present an idea.

Why do not you live your life with your pressure idea and do not try to convince other people to believe in your idea?

Ok then I will. I'll not say another word on anything.....IF, everyone else does the same because isn't that what's really happening all across the forum and every other forum?

Or are you people trying to ridicule those who don't support your mainstream nonsense, vindicated because you are backed by mass opinion?
How does it all work?

Fire with fire is my philosophy but equally I can actually deal with questions.
The problem is, people like you do not question as such. You question whilst making sure everyone knows that your mainstream garbage gets added into the mix.

If you notice, I rarely say anything bad. Just a little dig here an there to equal what comes at me. It just looks much worse because I'm on my own against your posse.

Think about that before coming back with any more because you're close to being overlooked for good whether you're arsed or not.

Quote from: markjo on February 22, 2017, 10:24:35 AM

For starters. modern aircraft design requires a pretty intimate understanding of air pressure in order to design wings that provide optimal lift under various conditions.
  Ship designers need a true understanding of density and displacement if they want their very large steel ships to float.
 Integrated circuit manufacturers need to understand how vapor deposition works in a near perfect vacuum.
 Weather forecasting is all about understanding how high and low pressure systems form and interact.  Internal combustion engines for autos are very interested in making sure that they have a pretty good handle on air pressures at various stages of the combustion cycle.

Are you starting to get the point?

Nope, because I know all this.
What I'd like to know is how you add gravity into the mix for all of this.
I'm happy with density and air pressure and such, even if it's told in a different way, sort of.
Tell me why gravity is required and show me how that's measured into the mix for a plane and a ship and such.
Try not to say something like, " because it just is, Newton knew it."  Or stuff like that.
Try and help me to, GET IT.

Gravity is what gives weight to mass.  Gravity is why less dense things float on more dense things.  Gravity is measured like any other form of acceleration; either by measuring the rate of change in a falling object's velocity, or by measuring the downward force an object exerts.

Gravity is what gives weight to mass.

How does this work?

  Gravity is why less dense things float on more dense things.

Isn't that buoyancy?

  Gravity is measured like any other form of acceleration; either by measuring the rate of change in a falling object's velocity, or by measuring the downward force an object exerts.

The rate of change? What do you mean by this?

Gravity plays a huge factor in the design of an aircraft. They are designed with a center of gravity and all weight distribution throughout the aircraft determines any impact to the center of gravity. From payload to structure, everything is taken in consideration to the designed center of gravity for the aircraft or it would porpoise through the air regardless of how much lift is generated.  Most modern passenger planes are designed to consider that each passenger and baggage for the craft weigh approximately 170 pounds distributed through the plane. (That number was from a few years ago when I went to aircraft mechanics school in the late 80s, maybe they have redesigned since then as I didn't actually become an aircraft mechanic for a living) Cargo planes use the same consideration for carrying heavy loads and those figures go into structural design, fuel capacity, location of engines and other systems, etc.

Not to mention that the whole premise of atmospheric pressure (the reason an airplane generates lift in the first place) relies on the weight of the air to generate that pressure. I hope you can see why so many of us are struggling to grasp the point of density and pressure determining why everything falls down in our world.

Ok then I will. I'll not say another word on anything.....IF, everyone else does the same because isn't that what's really happening all across the forum and every other forum?

Or are you people trying to ridicule those who don't support your mainstream nonsense, vindicated because you are backed by mass opinion?
How does it all work?

Fire with fire is my philosophy but equally I can actually deal with questions.
The problem is, people like you do not question as such. You question whilst making sure everyone knows that your mainstream garbage gets added into the mix.

If you notice, I rarely say anything bad. Just a little dig here an there to equal what comes at me. It just looks much worse because I'm on my own against your posse.

Think about that before coming back with any more because you're close to being overlooked for good whether you're arsed or not.

you say fire with fire, equally?
how can it be equally if you (or somebody else) do not present any verifiable prove of your idea?
you maybe can deal with questions, but you never present correct answers.
I am not backed by mass opinion, I am backed by scientific research.

Who would you trust more? a person who studied science and did experiments or somebody who only thought up an idea and did not a little bit research an testing on it.
Its like if you are sick, do you go to a doctor who studied medicine or to your neighbor who says that say all doctors are lying?

Gravity plays a huge factor in the design of an aircraft. They are designed with a center of gravity and all weight distribution throughout the aircraft determines any impact to the center of gravity. From payload to structure, everything is taken in consideration to the designed center of gravity for the aircraft or it would porpoise through the air regardless of how much lift is generated.  Most modern passenger planes are designed to consider that each passenger and baggage for the craft weigh approximately 170 pounds distributed through the plane. (That number was from a few years ago when I went to aircraft mechanics school in the late 80s, maybe they have redesigned since then as I didn't actually become an aircraft mechanic for a living) Cargo planes use the same consideration for carrying heavy loads and those figures go into structural design, fuel capacity, location of engines and other systems, etc.

Not to mention that the whole premise of atmospheric pressure (the reason an airplane generates lift in the first place) relies on the weight of the air to generate that pressure. I hope you can see why so many of us are struggling to grasp the point of density and pressure determining why everything falls down in our world.

Ok, so can you now tell me what gravity is.

you say fire with fire, equally?
how can it be equally if you (or somebody else) do not present any verifiable prove of your idea?
you maybe can deal with questions, but you never present correct answers.
I am not backed by mass opinion, I am backed by scientific research.

Ok fair enough. Let's start with gravity.
Tell me what gravity is so that you absolutely know for sure it's the force for this Earth.
Also once you've explained what gravity is as a force, then I want you to show me how it works with an experiment that I cannot deny.

Who would you trust more? a person who studied science and did experiments or somebody who only thought up an idea and did not a little bit research an testing on it.
Its like if you are sick, do you go to a doctor who studied medicine or to your neighbor who says that say all doctors are lying?

Nobody is saying all doctors are lying but let me tell you this. How many times have you been to the doctor and he/she has grabbed a big book off the shelf or looked on the internet for your symptoms?

I can guess you'll say never.
I can promise you that genuine people on here will say many times or at least once.
Now how many times has your granny or whatever, gave you a remedy that works for whatever problem, ailment that saved you from taking a course of antibiotics given to you regularly by your expert doctor.

Quote from: PawnedScum on February 23, 2017, 05:50:56 AM

Gravity plays a huge factor in the design of an aircraft. They are designed with a center of gravity and all weight distribution throughout the aircraft determines any impact to the center of gravity. From payload to structure, everything is taken in consideration to the designed center of gravity for the aircraft or it would porpoise through the air regardless of how much lift is generated.  Most modern passenger planes are designed to consider that each passenger and baggage for the craft weigh approximately 170 pounds distributed through the plane. (That number was from a few years ago when I went to aircraft mechanics school in the late 80s, maybe they have redesigned since then as I didn't actually become an aircraft mechanic for a living) Cargo planes use the same consideration for carrying heavy loads and those figures go into structural design, fuel capacity, location of engines and other systems, etc.

Not to mention that the whole premise of atmospheric pressure (the reason an airplane generates lift in the first place) relies on the weight of the air to generate that pressure. I hope you can see why so many of us are struggling to grasp the point of density and pressure determining why everything falls down in our world.

Ok, so can you now tell me what gravity is.

I could show you literally terabytes of data that would explain it from almost unlimited sources with multiple experiments that supported the theory.  You wouldn't believe it because it doesn't fit the flat earth model and takes your theory of denpressure completely out of the pictures.  How about instead you provide any single source of information that explains Denpressure.  Will even take your own presentation as long as it isn't a list of analogies. Forum posts don't count.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 05:24:23 AM

Gravity is what gives weight to mass.

How does this work?

Before I answer this, tell me the difference between mass and weight.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 05:24:23 AM

  Gravity is why less dense things float on more dense things.

Isn't that buoyancy?

Yes, and gravity is force that buoyancy is opposing.  Gravity pushes the boat into the water and buoyancy pushes the boat back up.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 05:24:23 AM

  Gravity is measured like any other form of acceleration; either by measuring the rate of change in a falling object's velocity, or by measuring the downward force an object exerts.

The rate of change? What do you mean by this?

You don't understand rate of change? 

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 05:51:03 AM

you say fire with fire, equally?
how can it be equally if you (or somebody else) do not present any verifiable prove of your idea?
you maybe can deal with questions, but you never present correct answers.
I am not backed by mass opinion, I am backed by scientific research.

Ok fair enough. Let's start with gravity.
Tell me what gravity is so that you absolutely know for sure it's the force for this Earth.
Also once you've explained what gravity is as a force, then I want you to show me how it works with an experiment that I cannot deny.

why do you start again to disprove gravity? That does not prove your pressure idea.
You are saying that your idea is correct than you have to prove that it is true.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 05:51:03 AM

Who would you trust more? a person who studied science and did experiments or somebody who only thought up an idea and did not a little bit research an testing on it.
Its like if you are sick, do you go to a doctor who studied medicine or to your neighbor who says that say all doctors are lying?

Nobody is saying all doctors are lying but let me tell you this. How many times have you been to the doctor and he/she has grabbed a big book off the shelf or looked on the internet for your symptoms?

I can guess you'll say never.
I can promise you that genuine people on here will say many times or at least once.
Now how many times has your granny or whatever, gave you a remedy that works for whatever problem, ailment that saved you from taking a course of antibiotics given to you regularly by your expert doctor.

where did the doctor got his knowledge? mostly from books.
he does not read it each time somebody comes in, he learned it and remember it.
If a doctor is confronted with a case he does not know enough about it, yes he looks into books and ask specialists.
That is called research.
Where did your granny knew about that remedy? I bet from other people who tested it. She did not for sure simply think of: oh i am sure this water i got from an old tree stump will help, i do not have any prove of it and never tested it, but its the cure for your pneumonia.

Think about it.

I could show you literally terabytes of data that would explain it from almost unlimited sources with multiple experiments that supported the theory.  You wouldn't believe it because it doesn't fit the flat earth model and takes your theory of denpressure completely out of the pictures.  How about instead you provide any single source of information that explains Denpressure.  Will even take your own presentation as long as it isn't a list of analogies. Forum posts don't count.

Stop waffling on with cop out clap trap and tell me what gravity is as a force. Use a portion of the terabyte stuff. The simple basics will do as real proof of this force you adhere to like a limpet.

Before I answer this, tell me the difference between mass and weight.

Forget my explanation. You don't abide by anything I say, so how about answering the question?

Yes, and gravity is force that buoyancy is opposing.  Gravity pushes the boat into the water and buoyancy pushes the boat back up.

I thought gravity was a pull to the centre of the Earth?
Just tell me what it is as a force for crying out loud.
Explain it.

You don't understand rate of change? 

I'm asking you to explain what you mean by it with your gravity.

...
Just tell me what it is as a force for crying out loud.
Explain it.
..

force is mass x acceleration

F=m*a

why do you start again to disprove gravity? That does not prove your pressure idea.
You are saying that your idea is correct than you have to prove that it is true.

Air pressure verses gravity. That's the topic.
You're not getting all your own way, so get explaining it because all I ever see is cop outs.

where did the doctor got his knowledge? mostly from books.

Correct. Same as you do on your theoretical science.

he does not read it each time somebody comes in, he learned it and remember it.

Learns it on the fly. A classic potential for huge mistakes in that alone but also a reliance on following protocol.

If a doctor is confronted with a case he does not know enough about it, yes he looks into books and ask specialists.

Yep and the specialists are never always what they proclaim to be.
I've has so called specialists scratching their heads.
I've known people get x-rays and all kinds of probing for weeks and sometimes months on end to diagnose a problem.
Specialists or chancers?

That is called research.

It's called best guessing and guinea pig games in some cases.
Sometimes no better than taking a placebo or letting nature take its course.

Where did your granny knew about that remedy? I bet from other people who tested it. She did not for sure simply think of: oh i am sure this water i got from an old tree stump will help, i do not have any prove of it and never tested it, but its the cure for your pneumonia.

She figured out that covering fingers in dog shit cured obesity with those that enjoyed gorging on finger foods.

Think about it.

You need to think about it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 06:43:43 AM

...
Just tell me what it is as a force for crying out loud.
Explain it.
..

force is mass x acceleration

F=m*a

Don't you dare tell me that I never explained anything to you. All you people can come up with is crap like this.
Admit it that you have no clue what gravity is you dishonest git.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

why do you start again to disprove gravity? That does not prove your pressure idea.
You are saying that your idea is correct than you have to prove that it is true.

Air pressure verses gravity. That's the topic.
You're not getting all your own way, so get explaining it because all I ever see is cop outs.

we can even show cop outs, you can show nothing

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

where did the doctor got his knowledge? mostly from books.

Correct. Same as you do on your theoretical science.

and it got proven by practical science

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

he does not read it each time somebody comes in, he learned it and remember it.

Learns it on the fly. A classic potential for huge mistakes in that alone but also a reliance on following protocol.

yes but scientists learn from mistakes to not do it again. only you did not even test your idea

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

If a doctor is confronted with a case he does not know enough about it, yes he looks into books and ask specialists.

Yep and the specialists are never always what they proclaim to be.
I've has so called specialists scratching their heads.
I've known people get x-rays and all kinds of probing for weeks and sometimes months on end to diagnose a problem.
Specialists or chancers?

but they do testing, you only come up with an idea without testing and proven to be true
in your case you would say the coughing is a cold but in reality it is cancer

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

That is called research.

It's called best guessing and guinea pig games in some cases.
Sometimes no better than taking a placebo or letting nature take its course.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

Where did your granny knew about that remedy? I bet from other people who tested it. She did not for sure simply think of: oh i am sure this water i got from an old tree stump will help, i do not have any prove of it and never tested it, but its the cure for your pneumonia.

She figured out that covering fingers in dog shit cured obesity with those that enjoyed gorging on finger foods.

what a short minded explanation. it shows that you know absolute nothing about obesity.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

Think about it.

You need to think about it.

no you!!! 

Quote from: Badxtoss on February 23, 2017, 01:06:45 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 12:07:55 AM

Quote from: markjo on February 22, 2017, 10:24:35 AM

For starters. modern aircraft design requires a pretty intimate understanding of air pressure in order to design wings that provide optimal lift under various conditions.
  Ship designers need a true understanding of density and displacement if they want their very large steel ships to float.
 Integrated circuit manufacturers need to understand how vapor deposition works in a near perfect vacuum.
 Weather forecasting is all about understanding how high and low pressure systems form and interact.  Internal combustion engines for autos are very interested in making sure that they have a pretty good handle on air pressures at various stages of the combustion cycle.

Are you starting to get the point?

Nope, because I know all this.
What I'd like to know is how you add gravity into the mix for all of this.
I'm happy with density and air pressure and such, even if it's told in a different way, sort of.
Tell me why gravity is required and show me how that's measured into the mix for a plane and a ship and such.
Try not to say something like, " because it just is, Newton knew it."  Or stuff like that.
Try and help me to, GET IT.

Without gravity, the plane would simply float.  Don't get me wrong that might be pretty cool, but there would be nothing holding it to the ground to begin with.  If it started on the ground it would require some kind of force to lift it off the ground initially. But only enough to overcome its inertia.
Once said force was applied it would continue in the direction that force pushed it until another force acted on it.
So if we pushed it up (lets say there is a ground, starting point) it would continue to go up, requiring no additional force to keep it moving.  There are those here that can do the math to show you exactly how much force versus how much mass/inertia but I'm not one of them.
Now, let's say we have atmosphere in this gravityless world.  The plane would experience some degree of resistance from the air, though the shape of the plane is designed to minimize this.  That friction would eventually slow the plane to a halt.  It would then simply hang there in the air until some other force acted upon it.  There would be no reason for it to fall.

I honestly don't think you even know what you're saying.

Fine, where am I wrong?

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 06:56:16 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

why do you start again to disprove gravity? That does not prove your pressure idea.
You are saying that your idea is correct than you have to prove that it is true.

Air pressure verses gravity. That's the topic.
You're not getting all your own way, so get explaining it because all I ever see is cop outs.

we can even show cop outs, you can show nothing

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 06:56:16 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

where did the doctor got his knowledge? mostly from books.

Correct. Same as you do on your theoretical science.

and it got proven by practical science

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 06:56:16 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

he does not read it each time somebody comes in, he learned it and remember it.

Learns it on the fly. A classic potential for huge mistakes in that alone but also a reliance on following protocol.

yes but scientists learn from mistakes to not do it again. only you did not even test your idea

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 06:56:16 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

If a doctor is confronted with a case he does not know enough about it, yes he looks into books and ask specialists.

Yep and the specialists are never always what they proclaim to be.
I've has so called specialists scratching their heads.
I've known people get x-rays and all kinds of probing for weeks and sometimes months on end to diagnose a problem.
Specialists or chancers?

but they do testing, you only come up with an idea without testing and proven to be true
in your case you would say the coughing is a cold but in reality it is cancer

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 06:56:16 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

That is called research.

It's called best guessing and guinea pig games in some cases.
Sometimes no better than taking a placebo or letting nature take its course.

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

Where did your granny knew about that remedy? I bet from other people who tested it. She did not for sure simply think of: oh i am sure this water i got from an old tree stump will help, i do not have any prove of it and never tested it, but its the cure for your pneumonia.

She figured out that covering fingers in dog shit cured obesity with those that enjoyed gorging on finger foods.

what a short minded explanation. it shows that you know absolute nothing about obesity.

Quote from: sceptimatic on February 23, 2017, 06:56:16 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on February 23, 2017, 06:30:24 AM

Think about it.

You need to think about it.

no you!!! 

Hmmmmmm.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 06:28:44 AM

Before I answer this, tell me the difference between mass and weight.

Forget my explanation. You don't abide by anything I say, so how about answering the question?

You don't seem to abide by anything I say, so we seem to be at an impasse.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 06:28:44 AM

Yes, and gravity is force that buoyancy is opposing.  Gravity pushes the boat into the water and buoyancy pushes the boat back up.

I thought gravity was a pull to the centre of the Earth?

You don't like the word "pull".  In this case, pushing down and pulling towards the center of the earth are pretty much the same thing.

Just tell me what it is as a force for crying out loud.

Whether or not gravity is a force depends on who you ask.  If you ask Newton, then gravity is the force that attracts objects with mass towards each other.  If you ask Einstein, then gravity isn't really a force, but a curvature in space-time caused by an object's mass.

Explain it.

We have.  Countless times.  You just keep dismissing the explanations.

Quote from: markjo on February 23, 2017, 06:28:44 AM

You don't understand rate of change? 

I'm asking you to explain what you mean by it with your gravity.

Objects in free fall to fall at an increasingly fast rate.  The rate that the speed increases (changes) is called acceleration.  That acceleration can be measured.  In fact, measuring that acceleration was pretty much the first lab experiment in my college physics course.  Maybe you should consider taking a physics course so that you can perform some of these experiments yourself.