Air Pressure vs Gravity

Quote from: markjo on December 21, 2016, 07:03:34 AM

Well, some engineers measure subtle changes in gravity to look for natural resources:

Quote from: http://csegrecorder.com/articles/view/magnetic-and-gravity-methods-in-mineral-exploration

Gravity and magnetic methods, which are discussed in this article, are extremely useful in both mineral and oil exploration.

Now where are your denpressure experiment results?

I'm still waiting for you to show me how engineers use gravity like you told me.

This thread is not about engineers using gravity.  It's about you claiming that gravity is fake and denpressure is real.

I'm still waiting for your experimental evidence supporting your denpressure theory.

Don't just grab any old garbage and paste it in. Tell me from your own typing fingers from your own mind how engineers use gravity.

Why?

Let's make it easier and use a bridge as an example.
Ok tell me how engineers construct the bridge by using gravity and how it it physically used to verify that gravity is the key force being used.

What does that have to do with alleged results of your denpressure experiment?

The fact that we don't fully understand why gravitation works is not evidence in support of the denpressure idea. Whether it is right or not, the theory of gravity does explain why stuff gravitates toward the earth. The denpressure idea does not.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 07:15:07 AM

Quote from: markjo on December 21, 2016, 07:03:34 AM

Well, some engineers measure subtle changes in gravity to look for natural resources:

Quote from: http://csegrecorder.com/articles/view/magnetic-and-gravity-methods-in-mineral-exploration

Gravity and magnetic methods, which are discussed in this article, are extremely useful in both mineral and oil exploration.

Now where are your denpressure experiment results?

I'm still waiting for you to show me how engineers use gravity like you told me.

This thread is not about engineers using gravity.  It's about you claiming that gravity is fake and denpressure is real.

I'm still waiting for your experimental evidence supporting your denpressure theory.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 07:15:07 AM

Don't just grab any old garbage and paste it in. Tell me from your own typing fingers from your own mind how engineers use gravity.

Why?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 07:15:07 AM

Let's make it easier and use a bridge as an example.
Ok tell me how engineers construct the bridge by using gravity and how it it physically used to verify that gravity is the key force being used.

What does that have to do with alleged results of your denpressure experiment?

Keep going on your little roundabout. I'm jumping off it as it's clear you cannot answer the question.

The fact that we don't fully understand why gravitation works is not evidence in support of the denpressure idea. Whether it is right or not, the theory of gravity does explain why stuff gravitates toward the earth. The denpressure idea does not.

Denpressure more than adequately explains it but you and many others do not accept it because your minds are clearly adhered to the fantasy model you had thrust upon you.

I generally enjoy dealing with people who possess logic and enough common sense to actually dare to question their indoctrination and then really attempt to grasp what I'm saying.
Very few even try because they literally allow peer pressure and a lifetime of schooling of bullshit physics to warp their mind against anything else.

It's a shame.

Quote from: Boots on December 21, 2016, 09:35:28 AM

The fact that we don't fully understand why gravitation works is not evidence in support of the denpressure idea. Whether it is right or not, the theory of gravity does explain why stuff gravitates toward the earth. The denpressure idea does not.

Denpressure more than adequately explains it but you and many others do not accept it because your minds are clearly adhered to the fantasy model you had thrust upon you.

I generally enjoy dealing with people who possess logic and enough common sense to actually dare to question their indoctrination and then really attempt to grasp what I'm saying.
Very few even try because they literally allow peer pressure and a lifetime of schooling of bullshit physics to warp their mind against anything else.

It's a shame.

OK. But I would really like to have it explained why air gravitates toward the earth and why objects gravitate toward the earth when the air pressure is higher there. Why is the earth the bottom of the stack?

Keep going on your little roundabout. I'm jumping off it as it's clear you cannot answer the question.

Yes, asking you for experimental evidence supporting denpressure does feel like going round and round.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 09:43:58 AM

Quote from: Boots on December 21, 2016, 09:35:28 AM

The fact that we don't fully understand why gravitation works is not evidence in support of the denpressure idea. Whether it is right or not, the theory of gravity does explain why stuff gravitates toward the earth. The denpressure idea does not.

Denpressure more than adequately explains it but you and many others do not accept it because your minds are clearly adhered to the fantasy model you had thrust upon you.

I generally enjoy dealing with people who possess logic and enough common sense to actually dare to question their indoctrination and then really attempt to grasp what I'm saying.
Very few even try because they literally allow peer pressure and a lifetime of schooling of bullshit physics to warp their mind against anything else.

It's a shame.

OK. But I would really like to have it explained why air gravitates toward the earth and why objects gravitate toward the earth where the air pressure is higher. Why is the earth the bottom of the stack?

Because Earth is solid and water at the bottom of the stack and the stack is build from that solid and water, as in the gas/fluid we breathe.
Anything placed into that atmosphere has to overcome the pressure to grow into it.
As that happens, the atmosphere resists that push by the amount of dense mass the object places into it by energy applied.
In other words, as in us humans or trees as two instances. We push as we grow and are pushed back by the resistance of our very own energy push up, whilst also channelling that atmosphere around us to friction grip us and balance us.

You displace your own dense body's worth of atmosphere and add it to the atmosphere already stacked.
Turn a water pool upside down and push into it in the way you would try to do it the normal way and you realise that you have to use your energy to force that water out of your way so you can occupy the space.
That water does not go out of the pool, so it's added to the pressure back onto you.

Seriously try and understand this if you want to go further.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 09:39:37 AM

Keep going on your little roundabout. I'm jumping off it as it's clear you cannot answer the question.

Yes, asking you for experimental evidence supporting denpressure does feel like going round and round.

Well you won't answer my questions whilst I'm explaining from my end, so leave it at that because I'm just going to overlook you from this point on, in this thread. You're not worth dealing with.

The only thing Sceptictank is good at, running away.

Quote from: markjo on December 21, 2016, 10:05:26 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 09:39:37 AM

Keep going on your little roundabout. I'm jumping off it as it's clear you cannot answer the question.

Yes, asking you for experimental evidence supporting denpressure does feel like going round and round.

Well you won't answer my questions whilst I'm explaining from my end, so leave it at that because I'm just going to overlook you from this point on, in this thread. You're not worth dealing with.

*sigh*
Since gravity is directly related mass and density, engineers can use very precise instruments to measure small variations in gravity in order to locate likely sources of some natural resources like oil deep underground.  Since oil is less dense than rock, a small gravitational variation will occur that can be detected with sensitive enough instruments.  This is not fiction, but a real world application that has been in use for a number of years in the oil industry

Now are you ready to show us your experimental evidence for denpressure?

Quote from: Mainframes on December 21, 2016, 05:52:35 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 20, 2016, 11:51:39 PM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 20, 2016, 11:49:40 PM

Scepti - do you agree that air pressure decreases with height?

Absolutely.

Therefore do you also agree that the air pressure at the bottom of an object is higher than at the top of an object?

Absolutely.

Pressure is a measure of force over a given area. So you have just agreed that the force at the bottom of an object is higher than at the top. Therefore the object would be pushed upwards by air pressure......

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 06:06:26 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 21, 2016, 05:52:35 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 20, 2016, 11:51:39 PM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 20, 2016, 11:49:40 PM

Scepti - do you agree that air pressure decreases with height?

Absolutely.

Therefore do you also agree that the air pressure at the bottom of an object is higher than at the top of an object?

Absolutely.

Pressure is a measure of force over a given area. So you have just agreed that the force at the bottom of an object is higher than at the top. Therefore the object would be pushed upwards by air pressure......

What could be pushing an object upwards if it's sat on a flat surface?
Bottom does not mean under, so maybe try and understand that and also trying your little games will get you nowhere.

Quote from: Mainframes on December 21, 2016, 11:59:08 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 06:06:26 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 21, 2016, 05:52:35 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 20, 2016, 11:51:39 PM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 20, 2016, 11:49:40 PM

Scepti - do you agree that air pressure decreases with height?

Absolutely.

Therefore do you also agree that the air pressure at the bottom of an object is higher than at the top of an object?

Absolutely.

Pressure is a measure of force over a given area. So you have just agreed that the force at the bottom of an object is higher than at the top. Therefore the object would be pushed upwards by air pressure......

What could be pushing an object upwards if it's sat on a flat surface?
Bottom does not mean under, so maybe try and understand that and also trying your little games will get you nowhere.

Ok. So when I pick an object up and the let it go in mid-air?

Air pressure will want to push that object upwards.

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on December 21, 2016, 08:12:22 AM

Why are the molecules at the top of the dome less agitated? Are they not receiving the same energy than the particles at the sides of the dome?

Ask yourself why a mountain top is full of snow in spite of seeing the sun. This may answer your question if you think.

This doesn't make sense. The top of the dome and the sides should be roughly the same distance from the central graphite arc. Therefore, they should receive the same amount of energy.

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on December 21, 2016, 08:12:22 AM

Wouldn't the reflection be different if the light is reflecting off of a fluid versus a solid? Look at a lake reflecting sunlight in summer versus winter. The reflection is completely different.

Yep but we are talking much less dense up in that sky as opposed to down here.

What does that have to do with it?

Solid hydrogen is more dense than fluid hydrogen. In addition to that, the fluid hydrogen is flowing in what you call "rivers". Surely there must be a difference in reflection, especially visible at night with all those stars? Yet when you map star movements, they form perfect arcs with no visible distortions.

Ask yourself what your saying when you mention "surface tension."
I know it appears to be self explanatory but just explain what you mean in your own words as to what surface tension is on that full glass.
Tell me what you think is happening to make this so called curve.

Are you unfamiliar with the term surface tension?

I will try to explain it as best I can.

Surface tension is simply the tendency of a fluid to form the tightest shape possible. This causes the water to be able to form a perfect sphere when droplets form. It is the same principle that allows water spiders to skate along the surface, even though they are more dense than water.

How do water spiders operate under the denpressure model?

Quote from: Boots on December 21, 2016, 09:54:08 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 21, 2016, 09:43:58 AM

Quote from: Boots on December 21, 2016, 09:35:28 AM

The fact that we don't fully understand why gravitation works is not evidence in support of the denpressure idea. Whether it is right or not, the theory of gravity does explain why stuff gravitates toward the earth. The denpressure idea does not.

Denpressure more than adequately explains it but you and many others do not accept it because your minds are clearly adhered to the fantasy model you had thrust upon you.

I generally enjoy dealing with people who possess logic and enough common sense to actually dare to question their indoctrination and then really attempt to grasp what I'm saying.
Very few even try because they literally allow peer pressure and a lifetime of schooling of bullshit physics to warp their mind against anything else.

It's a shame.

OK. But I would really like to have it explained why air gravitates toward the earth and why objects gravitate toward the earth where the air pressure is higher. Why is the earth the bottom of the stack?

Because Earth is solid and water at the bottom of the stack and the stack is build from that solid and water, as in the gas/fluid we breathe.
Anything placed into that atmosphere has to overcome the pressure to grow into it.
As that happens, the atmosphere resists that push by the amount of dense mass the object places into it by energy applied.
In other words, as in us humans or trees as two instances. We push as we grow and are pushed back by the resistance of our very own energy push up, whilst also channelling that atmosphere around us to friction grip us and balance us.

You displace your own dense body's worth of atmosphere and add it to the atmosphere already stacked.
Turn a water pool upside down and push into it in the way you would try to do it the normal way and you realise that you have to use your energy to force that water out of your way so you can occupy the space.
That water does not go out of the pool, so it's added to the pressure back onto you.

Seriously try and understand this if you want to go further.

OK. I don't think fluids compress much but let's say the water in this pool does and let's assume there is a seal that allows me to push my way in without allowing any water to escape. As I try to force my way into the pool, it's going to try to repel me. This will happen no matter which direction I try to enter from but let's say I am trying to enter from the bottom/ground. Once I have fought my way in to the center of the pool and there is water all around me which direction is the pressure going to push me?


The other way I was looking at it was if their was a membrane surrounding the pool that stretched to allow me to enter. No matter how far I push into the pool this membrane will always be trying to pull me back. Is denpressure kind of like that?

Ok. So when I pick an object up and the let it go in mid-air?

Air pressure will want to push that object upwards.

Air pressure does with some things. Hydrogen airships or helium airships, etc. Simple filled balloons and such.
However, these gases a squeezed up by atmospheric denser pressure against those more expanded set of molecules.

By you picking up a denser object from the floor, you only change the energy applied to the object which is now transferred to you but the object in the main, is still pushing into the atmosphere and transferring that displacement of it back against your energy push into it.

This doesn't make sense. The top of the dome and the sides should be roughly the same distance from the central graphite arc. Therefore, they should receive the same amount of energy.

I'm not even sure what you mean by this after I've just explained the set up.

Solid hydrogen is more dense than fluid hydrogen. In addition to that, the fluid hydrogen is flowing in what you call "rivers". Surely there must be a difference in reflection, especially visible at night with all those stars? Yet when you map star movements, they form perfect arcs with no visible distortions.

Does ice float on water?
Does ice adhere to ceilings?
What you need to do is try and grasp what's going on because you'll never begin to understand if you don't try.
The only trying you are doing, is trying my patience, of which I have plenty for the right people and you are becoming a bad fit for it.
Up your mind or take a hike.

Are you unfamiliar with the term surface tension?

I will try to explain it as best I can.

Surface tension is simply the tendency of a fluid to form the tightest shape possible. This causes the water to be able to form a perfect sphere when droplets form. It is the same principle that allows water spiders to skate along the surface, even though they are more dense than water.

How do water spiders operate under the denpressure model?

Explain what causes the water to for a sphere or as in the glass, explain what causes the water to appear to rise slightly higher than the glass rim.
Don't just say it does, tell me what's causing it.
Once you do this, then I'll explain the reality and then we can go on from there.

OK. I don't think fluids compress much but let's say the water in this pool does and let's assume there is a seal that allows me to push my way in without allowing any water to escape. As I try to force my way into the pool, it's going to try to repel me. This will happen no matter which direction I try to enter from but let's say I am trying to enter from the bottom/ground. Once I have fought my way in to the center of the pool and there is water all around me which direction is the pressure going to push me?

As you say, water hardly compresses, especially against you, in terms of you being able to compress the molecular make up of it any further with your energy.
This being said, it also means that you could not get into the tank if it is solid because you cannot compress the water and you cannot displace it.
It means you need something to give.
You get that in atmosphere in terms of, you can compress it, right?

The other way I was looking at it was if their was a membrane surrounding the pool that stretched to allow me to enter. No matter how far I push into the pool this membrane will always be trying to pull me back. Is denpressure kind of like that?

Bingo. This should be a point for you to keep and you should never discard this point because this will ultimately help you with denpressure.
Having said that, do not think of the membrane as PULLING you back because nothing in life pulls. It appears to pull but the truth is it's all push and to understand it you have to see it from that point of view.

If you're serious and keep your mind ticking then I'll keep explaining. If you revert back to square one then it's just another waste of my energy in typing.
Let's see where you're at.

Quote from: Mainframes on December 21, 2016, 03:53:46 PM

Ok. So when I pick an object up and the let it go in mid-air?

Air pressure will want to push that object upwards.

Air pressure does with some things. Hydrogen airships or helium airships, etc. Simple filled balloons and such.
However, these gases a squeezed up by atmospheric denser pressure against those more expanded set of molecules.

By you picking up a denser object from the floor, you only change the energy applied to the object which is now transferred to you but the object in the main, is still pushing into the atmosphere and transferring that displacement of it back against your energy push into it.

Air pressure is air pressure no what what I do to the object. It is still higher at the bottom of the object than at the top. And it still results in an upwards force.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 22, 2016, 12:03:55 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 21, 2016, 03:53:46 PM

Ok. So when I pick an object up and the let it go in mid-air?

Air pressure will want to push that object upwards.

Air pressure does with some things. Hydrogen airships or helium airships, etc. Simple filled balloons and such.
However, these gases a squeezed up by atmospheric denser pressure against those more expanded set of molecules.

By you picking up a denser object from the floor, you only change the energy applied to the object which is now transferred to you but the object in the main, is still pushing into the atmosphere and transferring that displacement of it back against your energy push into it.

Air pressure is air pressure no what what I do to the object. It is still higher at the bottom of the object than at the top. And it still results in an upwards force.

I can't help you any more than I have. You have no intention of understanding so we will call it a day.
Don't waste your energy replying, you will be overlooked.

Quote from: Mainframes on December 22, 2016, 01:44:02 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 22, 2016, 12:03:55 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 21, 2016, 03:53:46 PM

Ok. So when I pick an object up and the let it go in mid-air?

Air pressure will want to push that object upwards.

Air pressure does with some things. Hydrogen airships or helium airships, etc. Simple filled balloons and such.
However, these gases a squeezed up by atmospheric denser pressure against those more expanded set of molecules.

By you picking up a denser object from the floor, you only change the energy applied to the object which is now transferred to you but the object in the main, is still pushing into the atmosphere and transferring that displacement of it back against your energy push into it.

Air pressure is air pressure no what what I do to the object. It is still higher at the bottom of the object than at the top. And it still results in an upwards force.

I can't help you any more than I have. You have no intention of understanding so we will call it a day.
Don't waste your energy replying, you will be overlooked.

Rinse and repeat.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 22, 2016, 02:04:52 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 22, 2016, 01:44:02 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 22, 2016, 12:03:55 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on December 21, 2016, 03:53:46 PM

Ok. So when I pick an object up and the let it go in mid-air?

Air pressure will want to push that object upwards.

Air pressure does with some things. Hydrogen airships or helium airships, etc. Simple filled balloons and such.
However, these gases a squeezed up by atmospheric denser pressure against those more expanded set of molecules.

By you picking up a denser object from the floor, you only change the energy applied to the object which is now transferred to you but the object in the main, is still pushing into the atmosphere and transferring that displacement of it back against your energy push into it.

Air pressure is air pressure no what what I do to the object. It is still higher at the bottom of the object than at the top. And it still results in an upwards force.

I can't help you any more than I have. You have no intention of understanding so we will call it a day.
Don't waste your energy replying, you will be overlooked.

Rinse and repeat.

Of course and I'll keep doing it until the genuine one's actually grasp it. People like you are irrelevant except for providing a laugh now and again.

Scepti - I understand perfectly well. If the force at the bottom of an object is greater than at the top then the net force is upwards. You agreed that air pressure decreases with height and you agreed that pressure was force per unit area.

Can anyone also see why G-force is not a real force?
You see, not only does denpressure scupper the gravity bullshit, it also aids in proving that AC (atmospheric compression) force is the reason why people feel the added force upon their bodies during acceleration.

You see, you are pushed back into your seat by the atmospheric compression force and not from some fictional gravity pull or whatever the supposed scientists decide is the order of the day.

So if you were in a sealed object, you wouldnt feel accelleration?

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on December 21, 2016, 07:03:33 PM

Solid hydrogen is more dense than fluid hydrogen. In addition to that, the fluid hydrogen is flowing in what you call "rivers". Surely there must be a difference in reflection, especially visible at night with all those stars? Yet when you map star movements, they form perfect arcs with no visible distortions.

Does ice float on water?

Did you know that water is one of a very few substances that is less dense in its solid form (ice) than its liquid form?

Solid hydrogen is more dense than liquid hydrogen and therefore won't float.

So if you were in a sealed object, you wouldnt feel accelleration?

How would you be able to be in a sealed object and live?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 22, 2016, 12:16:05 AM

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on December 21, 2016, 07:03:33 PM

Solid hydrogen is more dense than fluid hydrogen. In addition to that, the fluid hydrogen is flowing in what you call "rivers". Surely there must be a difference in reflection, especially visible at night with all those stars? Yet when you map star movements, they form perfect arcs with no visible distortions.

Does ice float on water?

Did you know that water is one of a very few substances that is less dense in its solid form (ice) than its liquid form?

Solid hydrogen is more dense than liquid hydrogen and therefore won't float.

It still makes a dome no matter what is said.

Quote from: jon on December 22, 2016, 05:36:57 AM

So if you were in a sealed object, you wouldnt feel accelleration?

How would you be able to be in a sealed object and live?

Im not asking if you would live, just if you would feel accelleration?

If you need an explanation, maybe you have an oxygen tank in the sealed object with you.

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 22, 2016, 07:04:54 AM

Quote from: jon on December 22, 2016, 05:36:57 AM

So if you were in a sealed object, you wouldnt feel accelleration?

How would you be able to be in a sealed object and live?

Im not asking if you would live, just if you would feel accelleration?

If you need an explanation, maybe you have an oxygen tank in the sealed object with you.

It doesn't matter whether you have an oxygen tank in a sealed object. You won't live. It has to be vented.