Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?

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Slemon

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #90 on: August 27, 2016, 01:22:17 PM »
Of course prediction is not impossible on a globe model
It should be, that's the whole point. If the key underlying factor to the calculations is non-existent, how on earth is a prediction meant to be made?
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #91 on: August 27, 2016, 01:23:55 PM »
@silicon, @djhives. I don't have very good imagination and as you argue flat earth but have not yet covered sunset thing then maybe you can help. Or even sandokhan as he puts up wall of texts but I quite haven't seen this topic came up from him.  Can anyone please draw me picture how light moves from sun to the observer at sunset. Observer stands at twilight zone and clouds above his head are illuminated. Is it possible to draw it?

Is this the one where clouds are lit from underneath at sunset

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zork

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #92 on: August 27, 2016, 01:42:09 PM »
@silicon, @djhives. I don't have very good imagination and as you argue flat earth but have not yet covered sunset thing then maybe you can help. Or even sandokhan as he puts up wall of texts but I quite haven't seen this topic came up from him.  Can anyone please draw me picture how light moves from sun to the observer at sunset. Observer stands at twilight zone and clouds above his head are illuminated. Is it possible to draw it?

Is this the one where clouds are lit from underneath at sunset
Underneath and when not underneath then big cumulus clouds so that lower part is clearly in shadow and upper part is illuminated by sunlight. Something like that http://weatherpix.photoshelter.com/image/I00006R4L.JUlOQg
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #93 on: August 27, 2016, 01:46:32 PM »
Sandokhan. I don't have time right now to comb through your rather extensive list of pseudo-scientific papers. However, I would like to point out several things.

1. Once again, you are completely ignoring the topic of conversation, and spamming the thread with your vaguely-related theories. Why can't you stay on topic?
2. The Sagnac effect is completely compatible with relativity.
3. Why do you think it is necessary for satellites to take into account the orbital Sagnac effect? Have you bothered calculating the magnitude of this effect? What was it?
4. How do you know they don't take it into effect? I certainly have no idea if they do or not. Have you seen their source code?

THE LATEST VIEWPOINT in cosmology today is this: MLET (Modified Lorentz Ether Theory).

THIS IS THE LAST STAND of the RE scientists.

5. I normally hesitate to call people liars (ignorance is usually a better explanation), but this is just a flat out lie. I have never heard of anybody giving any credence to such a theory. Googling "modified lorentz ether theory" comes up with just a few mentions of some dude, "Ronald R Hatch", who seems to generally be dismissed as a crackpot. Based on his theory, he predicted that LIGO would not detect gravitational waves. LIGO has since detected gravitational waves. I think it is safe to dismiss his theory.

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sandokhan

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2016, 02:06:54 PM »
You seem to be very confused.

This thread is about the spinning earth hypothesis.

As such, the orbital Sagnac effect fits exactly into the discussion.


You have no idea what you are talking about: how many times do you want me to prove you wrong?


The Sagnac effect DESTROYS relativity, no doubt about that.

You have already been given the references which detail the orbital Sagnac effect, it is greater, of course, than the rotational Sagnac effect.

It is completely missing from the GPS satellites recordings.



I always bring to everybody's attention the BEST bibliographical references.

Martin Ruderfer is one of the most eminent physicists of the 20th century: in 1961 he proved the first null result of ether drift theory.

Ron Hatch is an internationally renowned expert on GPS satellite technology: people resort to calling him a crackpot ONLY when he brings up the Ruderfer experiment, which cannot be denied.

Have you forgotten that Kepler FAKED his entire Nova Astronomia?

Have you forgotten the quotes from Newton which detail the ether pressure theory?

Have you forgotten how Einstein faked his data on the 1919/1922 eclipses?

Who then is a crackpot?

There were no gravitational waves discovered whatsoever at Ligo, do not kid yourself.

Gravitational waves were discovered in full in 1911 by Dr. T. Henry Moray, for your information.


Do you understand where you are and what is being discussed here?

The GPS satellites constitute a large scale spinning Mossbauer experiment.

Since the orbital Sagnac effect is not recorded, they immediately fulfill the hypotheses of the Ruderfer experiment.

Moreover, the GPS clocks are not recording the Sun's gravitational potential effect, which throws heliocentricity out the window immediately.

Do your homework before you post something.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 02:14:36 PM by sandokhan »

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2016, 02:14:54 PM »
Of course prediction is not impossible on a globe model
It should be, that's the whole point. If the key underlying factor to the calculations is non-existent, how on earth is a prediction meant to be made?

Is it 100% accurate.   Would you consider the Coriolis frequency to be the root of all equations in which you are speaking about.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2016, 02:22:21 PM »
@silicon, @djhives. I don't have very good imagination and as you argue flat earth but have not yet covered sunset thing then maybe you can help. Or even sandokhan as he puts up wall of texts but I quite haven't seen this topic came up from him.  Can anyone please draw me picture how light moves from sun to the observer at sunset. Observer stands at twilight zone and clouds above his head are illuminated. Is it possible to draw it?

Is this the one where clouds are lit from underneath at sunset
Underneath and when not underneath then big cumulus clouds so that lower part is clearly in shadow and upper part is illuminated by sunlight. Something like that http://weatherpix.photoshelter.com/image/I00006R4L.JUlOQg

I really don't know where to start with this, light and our perception, in a situation as you have shown in this picture with no frame of reference, is so convoluted how does this prove anything

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2016, 02:24:10 PM »
@sillicon - again you've ignored my request for you to clarify what your response meant, you dismissed my comment with the words 'because reasons', that's not even proper English.. you also ignored my evidence regarding the lunar eclipse

@sandokhan - another blatant ignoring me, your claims are proven wrong, very easily may I add

@djhives - another unwilling to reply, satellites are 100% REAL, they've been photographed by amateurs, i've seen them with the naked eye
- i also explained, very simply, why satellites are lit when a 747 at night isn't, are you not embarrassed by your questions?

I know this site is full of flat earth beginners who've done next to no cross examination, but at least most THINK about the questions before asking them

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zork

  • 3319
Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2016, 02:28:19 PM »
@silicon, @djhives. I don't have very good imagination and as you argue flat earth but have not yet covered sunset thing then maybe you can help. Or even sandokhan as he puts up wall of texts but I quite haven't seen this topic came up from him.  Can anyone please draw me picture how light moves from sun to the observer at sunset. Observer stands at twilight zone and clouds above his head are illuminated. Is it possible to draw it?

Is this the one where clouds are lit from underneath at sunset
Underneath and when not underneath then big cumulus clouds so that lower part is clearly in shadow and upper part is illuminated by sunlight. Something like that http://weatherpix.photoshelter.com/image/I00006R4L.JUlOQg

I really don't know where to start with this, light and our perception, in a situation as you have shown in this picture with no frame of reference, is so convoluted how does this prove anything
I don't quite want to prove anything. Its just that in round earth model it is explained very simply but no one has ever given any simple explanation in flat earth model. It just happens and no one ever thinks about it. But I really would like to see how it works on flat earth model and if I even can somehow observe it with things in hand. Like lamp and table and some clouds made of cotton. I am quite frustrated with my inablity to imagine this thing.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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Slemon

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2016, 02:42:35 PM »
Is it 100% accurate.   Would you consider the Coriolis frequency to be the root of all equations in which you are speaking about.
It's not 100% accurate because the equations in question can't be properly solved with currently knowledge. (Seriously, you can get a million dollars for proving they even have a unique solution, they're advanced). The approximations made, however, are remarkable accurate in the short term before the error adds up.
The Coriolis force is the only cause of geostrophic flow; without that term the rotational motion we observe could not possibly enter into the equations under known rules of fluid dynamics.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2016, 03:37:20 PM »
You have no idea what you are talking about: how many times do you want me to prove you wrong?

At least once would be a nice start.

Quote
The Sagnac effect DESTROYS relativity, no doubt about that.

You have already been given the references which detail the orbital Sagnac effect, it is greater, of course, than the rotational Sagnac effect.

It is completely missing from the GPS satellites recordings.

A quick glance at this paper shows that the Sagnac effect is calculated based on a rotation rate of 7.2921151247 x 10-5 rad/s. This is the rotation rate of the earth with respect to the stars, not the sun. This takes into account both the rotation of the earth relative to the sun, and the rotation of the earth due to the orbit of the sun. There is no need for a separate "orbital Sagnac effect" calculation.

Quote
I always bring to everybody's attention the BEST bibliographical references.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Donald, is that you?

Quote
Do you understand where you are and what is being discussed here?

Yes, do you?

It's definitely a vague topic. The OP was asking for evidence that we live on a spinning ball. Numerous points were brought up. Instead of addressing any of those points, you brought up one of your own talking points, which was not evidence for a spinning ball. By all means, present your arguments. Do it in the appropriate thread though, instead of spamming unrelated threads. Make your own thread if you want.

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sandokhan

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #101 on: August 28, 2016, 12:08:53 AM »
You lack the most basic knowledge of astrophysics.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/JasonAtkins.shtml

If we multiply, as an example, this value by the Earth's equatorial radius we will of course get an equatorial speed of 465.1 m/s, 1,674.4 km/h or 1,040.4 mph.

However, the orbital speed of the Earth around the Sun is some 30 km/s.

TWO DIFFERENT MOTIONS: the GPS satellites must incorporate both the rotational Sagnac effect AND the orbital Sagnac effect.

The second effect, the orbital Sagnac effect IS NOT recorded.


In GPS the actual magnitude of the Sagnac correction
due to earth’s rotation depends on the positions of
satellites and receiver and a typical value is 30 m, as the
propagation time is about 0.1s and the linear speed due
to earth’s rotation is about 464 m/s at the equator. The
GPS provides an accuracy of about 10 m or better in positioning.
Thus the precision of GPS will be degraded significantly,
if the Sagnac correction due to earth’s rotation
is not taken into account.
On the other hand, the orbital
motion of the earth around the sun has a linear speed of
about 30 km/s which is about 100 times that of earth’s
rotation.
Thus the present high-precision GPS would be
entirely impossible if the omitted correction due to orbital
motion is really necessary.


In an intercontinental microwave link between Japan and
the USA via a geostationary satellite as relay, the influence
of earth’s rotation is also demonstrated in a high-precision
time comparison between the atomic clocks at two remote
ground stations.
In this transpacific-link experiment, a synchronization
error of as large as about 0.3 µs was observed unexpectedly.


Meanwhile, as in GPS, no effects of earth’s orbital motion
are reported in these links, although they would be
easier to observe if they are in existence.
Thereby, it is evident
that the wave propagation in GPS or the intercontinental
microwave link depends on the earth’s rotation, but
is entirely independent of earth’s orbital motion around
the sun or whatever. As a consequence, the propagation
mechanism in GPS or intercontinental link can be viewed
as classical in conjunction with an ECI frame, rather than
the ECEF or any other frame, being selected as the unique
propagation frame. In other words, the wave in GPS or the
intercontinental microwave link can be viewed as propagating
via a classical medium stationary in a geocentric
inertial frame.


http://qem.ee.nthu.edu.tw/f1a.pdf


Why is there no requirement for a Sagnac correction due to the earth’s orbital motion? Like the transit time in the spinning Mossbauer experiments, any such effect would be completely canceled by the orbital-velocity effect on the satellite clocks.

However, indirectly, the counteracting effects of the transit time and clock slowing induced biases indicate that an ether drift is present. This is because there is independent evidence that clocks are slowed as a result of their speed. Thus,
ether drift must exist or else the clock slowing effect would be observed.



The fact that the orbital Sagnac effect is not recorded by GPS satellites is a basic assertion of modern physics.

For you to state something like this: "There is no need for a separate "orbital Sagnac effect" calculation." means you haven't got a clue as to the subject we are discussing here.


As for Neil Ashby, here are two papers detailing the terrible errors committed by Ashby:


http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Ronald_Hatch/Hatch-Clock_Behavior_and_theSearch_for_an_Underlying_Mechanism_for_Relativistic_Phenomena_2002.pdf


http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Ronald_Hatch/Hatch-Relativity_and_GPS-II_1995.pdf


And things don't stop here.

In addition to the fact that GPS satellites do not record the orbital Sagnac effect, we have an even greater problem: the GPS clocks DO NOT RECORD the Sun's gravitational potential.

It is assumed that the orbital velocity of the Earth as it orbits the Sun is a variable; however, the GPS clocks show that the this velocity MUST BE CONSTANT, as it does not record the Sun's gravitational potential effect upon these clocks.


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1782182#msg1782182

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1784780#msg1784780


Since GPS satellites do not record the orbital Sagnac effect, it means that the Earth does not revolve around the Sun.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 12:11:24 AM by sandokhan »

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #102 on: August 28, 2016, 01:15:50 AM »
You lack the most basic knowledge of astrophysaoeuoeuoblahblahblahorbitalsagnaceffectblah...

I responded in this thread that I made specially for you. We can all discuss the Sagnac Effect to our hearts content there, without disrupting this thread.

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sandokhan

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #103 on: August 28, 2016, 02:54:05 AM »
You sound very delusional totes.

The subject matter belongs entirely here: do we live on a spinning ball?

Your useless thread has been reported as such.


The Sagnac Effect arises from the different relative velocities of the satellite and the earth's surface. The rotation of the earth affects this. The linear velocity of the system as a whole does NOT affect this.

If you want to live in a universe of your own making, a fantasy world, then go ahead and do so.

In this universe, there are TWO Sagnac effects: the rotational Sagnac effect (which is being recorded) and the orbital Sagnac effect which is not.


Do you understand basic English and basic physics?


How many references do I have to post here to make you understand this basic fact of physics?

The orbital Sagnac IS NOT being recorded by GPS satellites.

If you do not understand the subject, which is plainly evident from your messages, then by all means do your homework:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1782182#msg1782182

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1784780#msg1784780

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Omega

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #104 on: August 28, 2016, 03:02:31 AM »
Do you understand basic English and basic physics?

But aren't you the one who is *questioning* basic physics?
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #105 on: August 28, 2016, 06:01:08 AM »
If you want to live in a universe of your own making, a fantasy world, then go ahead and do so.

holy irony batman!

the flat earth is an imaginary fantasy world, with no physical evidence whatsoever, only assumptions and cognitive dissonance to ignore the physical visual irrefutable evidence absolutely proving our shape

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Omega

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #106 on: August 28, 2016, 06:04:19 AM »
If you want to live in a universe of your own making, a fantasy world, then go ahead and do so.

holy irony batman!

the flat earth is an imaginary fantasy world, with no physical evidence whatsoever, only assumptions and cognitive dissonance to ignore the physical visual irrefutable evidence absolutely proving our shape

I have long since learned that flat earthers are irony-impared.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #107 on: August 28, 2016, 06:18:07 AM »
It is not irony if it is expected.  That would kind of be the opposite of irony, am i right?

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Omega

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #108 on: August 28, 2016, 06:25:47 AM »
It is not irony if it is expected.  That would kind of be the opposite of irony, am i right?

Okay this made me chuckle.
Only thing round in FE is its circular logic.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #109 on: August 28, 2016, 06:27:27 AM »
It is not irony if it is expected.  That would kind of be the opposite of irony, am i right?

Okay this made me chuckle.

Now, that is sort of ironic, in an expected way. 

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zork

  • 3319
Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #110 on: August 30, 2016, 01:33:57 AM »
@silicon, @djhives. I don't have very good imagination and as you argue flat earth but have not yet covered sunset thing then maybe you can help. Or even sandokhan as he puts up wall of texts but I quite haven't seen this topic came up from him.  Can anyone please draw me picture how light moves from sun to the observer at sunset. Observer stands at twilight zone and clouds above his head are illuminated. Is it possible to draw it?

Is this the one where clouds are lit from underneath at sunset
Underneath and when not underneath then big cumulus clouds so that lower part is clearly in shadow and upper part is illuminated by sunlight. Something like that http://weatherpix.photoshelter.com/image/I00006R4L.JUlOQg

I really don't know where to start with this, light and our perception, in a situation as you have shown in this picture with no frame of reference, is so convoluted how does this prove anything
I don't quite want to prove anything. Its just that in round earth model it is explained very simply but no one has ever given any simple explanation in flat earth model. It just happens and no one ever thinks about it. But I really would like to see how it works on flat earth model and if I even can somehow observe it with things in hand. Like lamp and table and some clouds made of cotton. I am quite frustrated with my inablity to imagine this thing.
Nothing yet? Very simple thing but absolutely no ideas how it may work in FE model.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #111 on: August 30, 2016, 07:41:21 AM »
@silicon, @djhives. I don't have very good imagination and as you argue flat earth but have not yet covered sunset thing then maybe you can help. Or even sandokhan as he puts up wall of texts but I quite haven't seen this topic came up from him.  Can anyone please draw me picture how light moves from sun to the observer at sunset. Observer stands at twilight zone and clouds above his head are illuminated. Is it possible to draw it?

Is this the one where clouds are lit from underneath at sunset
Underneath and when not underneath then big cumulus clouds so that lower part is clearly in shadow and upper part is illuminated by sunlight. Something like that http://weatherpix.photoshelter.com/image/I00006R4L.JUlOQg

I really don't know where to start with this, light and our perception, in a situation as you have shown in this picture with no frame of reference, is so convoluted how does this prove anything
I don't quite want to prove anything. Its just that in round earth model it is explained very simply but no one has ever given any simple explanation in flat earth model. It just happens and no one ever thinks about it. But I really would like to see how it works on flat earth model and if I even can somehow observe it with things in hand. Like lamp and table and some clouds made of cotton. I am quite frustrated with my inablity to imagine this thing.
Nothing yet? Very simple thing but absolutely no ideas how it may work in FE model.

The sun is close, somewhere around 3k miles away from the earth and rotates around in a circle of the motionless earth beneath your feet.  As the sun moves away from you it recedes into the distance (sunset)  and appears to converge with the horizon at the apex of your perspective, different phenomena  occur such as the sun's colors, size, and effects of light due to many factors in the increased density of air, humidity, gases, etc  close to the earths surface. Very simple.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #112 on: August 30, 2016, 07:55:49 AM »
How come the sun stays the same size and shape throughout the day then? If it truly was receding, it should get smaller, and no martter how far away it went, it would never go underneath the horizon.
I wonder how obnoxious I can make my signature?
Please give me ideas.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #113 on: August 30, 2016, 08:03:58 AM »
How come the sun stays the same size and shape throughout the day then? If it truly was receding, it should get smaller, and no martter how far away it went, it would never go underneath the horizon.

Many times it does not stay the same size,  there are videos online showing the sun receding and decreasing 500% or more in size.  Other times, it looks to increase size at the horizon due the effect of light (source) from a distance appearing larger than it is, somewhat like car lights further away appearing larger than headlights close to you. It does not actually go underneath the horizon, this is a problem with our perspective.

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sokarul

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #114 on: August 30, 2016, 08:07:28 AM »
Car lights do not appear larger. Two headlights will seem to merge into one if the car is far enough away.
All the properly done videos show the sun as the same size. Do you have any properly done videos showing the %500 change so I can claim a Nobel Prize?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #115 on: August 30, 2016, 08:13:00 AM »
Car lights do not appear larger. Two headlights will seem to merge into one if the car is far enough away.
All the properly done videos show the sun as the same size. Do you have any properly done videos showing the %500 change so I can claim a Nobel Prize?

How can they merge into one, if they in fact do not appear larger?  What is a properly done video exactly.

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sokarul

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #116 on: August 30, 2016, 08:27:11 AM »
Their position moves. It's a well known property of waves. Sound waves can do it too.

And it cannot apply to the sun since there is only one sun.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #117 on: August 30, 2016, 08:30:48 AM »
Their position moves. It's a well known property of waves. Sound waves can do it too.

And it cannot apply to the sun since there is only one sun.

The sun is not 92.96 million miles away


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sokarul

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Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #118 on: August 30, 2016, 08:40:37 AM »
Like I said proper videos don't show a change other than what is expected.

Why do people over 5,000 miles from each other see the exact same face of the sun?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: Does ANYONE have ANY evidence that we live on a spinning ball?
« Reply #119 on: August 30, 2016, 08:57:00 AM »
Like I said proper videos don't show a change other than what is expected.

Why do people over 5,000 miles from each other see the exact same face of the sun?

How is this not a proper video, and how is this expected from a heliocentric point of view