Poll

How many people have read Don Quixote (Quijote) de la Mancha?

in English Translation?
In Translation to another Language (please state which language in comments)?
In the original Castilian?
Both in Castilian and English?
Both in Castilian and a translation to another Language (please state which language in comments)?
in Castilian, English, and any other language?

Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?

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Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?
« on: August 12, 2016, 04:00:26 AM »
Take this little poll for me. I included it in the section on PR&S, because AFTER you take the poll, there is more to it than that. I would like to see a discussion develop here about culture and ethical values in Spain during the 16th and 17th Centuries, what with the Expulsion of he Moors and the Jews at the end of the 15th Century, and the whole obsession with "Old Christians" v. "New Christians" in Spain at the time.

Ultimately ALL of this led up to Generalissimo Francisco Franco, who considered himself to be the last Crusader against both Communism and Islam, but also, to a point, against Judaism, although he did help out the Jews when push came to shove in WWII.

I can't help but see some parallels with Catholicism in 16th and 17th Centuries with ISIS/ISIL/IS of today.

Muslims have a LONG memory. These people think back to the Crusades. They remember Christian Armies sweeping across the Middle East, killing whatever got in the way.  And they still hold it against us (hence the killing of Christians in the Middle East today, and the explanation being that "they have killed some Crusaders").

Now I say things NOT to excuse ISIS/ISIL/IS. I hate the bastards and think we should go Dresden on them, and kill anything larger than a bunny rabbit over there. But that is not the point. The point is to try to figure out what made tem the way they are.

I believe they are what they are because they don't forget History the way Westerners do. They remember the Crusades, they remember the Exile of the Moors and of the Jews from Spain (1492), and they certainly remember those who stayed behind having to become Christians at risk of their lives, and even having done that, were STILL under risk, just because they were a New Christian and not an Old Christian.

I have read Don Quixote in English a few times. I am now slogging my way through the original Castilian, which is difficult, simply because (1), Literary Castilian is harder than Castilian as spoken on the streets, and (2), Castilian of any variety is harder than the Latin American Spanish I speak (although Costa Rican Spanish IS closer to Castilian than Mexican Spanish was). Don Quixote reflects, in a rather funny way, the culture of Spain as it was during the time that Cervantes wrote. Yet at the time it carries a certain serious undertone that cannot be challenged nor gainsaid.

I think Conker, given his place of birth and residence, would be able to give some of the best answers on this thread, and so I specifically invite him to come to enter the threat and comment at will. You are all welcome of course. But I thought I would invite him special since I know he has many strengths to bring to a conversation of this nature.

Peace.

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GlaringEye

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Re: Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2016, 07:11:43 AM »
I read it in Castillian. You guys have it easier, as the translations use the modern English. But we had to read it in Castillian, using words and expressions five centuries old, at age 15. I also read Tirant lo Blanc, and even older book written in valencian Catalan, which was a pain.

Spain has always been mostly rural, even when other countries such as the United Kingdom and France were under the industrial revolution. What little industries were born in Spain, they were located in Catalonia and the Basque Country, both next to France and with important ports. The other regions stayed in a pre-industrial state, with rich families ruling over villages and noble people owning most of the territory. Coupled with deep Catholic beliefs, this situation creates the "España profunda", the "deep Spain": uneducated, often violent people, unable to accept even the smallest change in their lifestyle.

Re: Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2016, 07:42:25 AM »
So, GLARING EYE, is it safe to assume that you ARE from Spain? If so, from where?

Re: Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2016, 08:51:09 AM »
I am further curious to know whether or not you are familiar with that text that is commonly known as "el Quijote Falso", by Alonso Fernández de Avellaneda. I actually have it in English Translation. I have not yet been able to read it. However, it was a Print-on-Demand book, and so it cost US$50.00 for a softbound text, which is ridiculous, but still worth every penny I paid for it, just to say I have it.

As far as translations go, I have the Edith Grossman in English in print, softbound. On my Nook, I have the Tobias Smollett revised by Carole Slade version. On Kindle, I have a Castilian version Don Quijote. Then I have a copy of the Complete Works of Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra translated by John Ormsby. And I have a print copy of the Castilian Don Quijote softbound.

So you can say I have made quite a project out of Don Quixote and Miguel de Cervantes. I still need to read the False Quixote, but all in good time. Meanwhile, I am wondering what you might know about it.

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GlaringEye

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Re: Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2016, 02:32:00 PM »
Yes, I'm from Catalonia, Spain.

About Avellaneda's Quijote, I haven't read it, but I'm told it's not as good as Cervantes's. Its characters are flat and clichéd, and its humor lacks Cervantes's wit. But that's just what I'm told, it could still be a good read.

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Cartog

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Re: Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 11:40:36 AM »
Struggled through it using a number of different translations - one of the best (most readable) is the Penguin edition, though it misses a step early in Book 1 where Sancho's wife is once (in the original Spanish and some translations) called Mari; this becomes significant in Book 2 where an actual unauthorized edition of a Don Q sequel is ridiculed for naming Sancho's wife Mari.

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Crouton

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Re: Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2016, 11:41:53 PM »
None of them.

You have not truly experience Don Quixote until you've experienced in it's original Klingon.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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UpstartPixel

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Re: Don Quixote (Quijote) and in what language?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 11:47:05 AM »
I have the original Castillian on a bookshelf, and have started it several times, biut I confess I do get bogged down eahc time with the (for me) archaic phrases, so I have yet to finsh the book. How's that for a humble brag.

I'm actually more interested by your comment about the "long historic memory" of certain peoples.

Why are the Crusades such a touchy subject in certain circles? We cvan talk about the "Muslims" or the "Arabs", but note that the Greeks still grouse about the Fourth Crusade too. Why aren't the Greeks grousing more about the conquest of Constantinople? Why aren't the Muslims more upset about the destruction of Baghdad and the Califate by the Mongols? To take another example, why do many Indians still hold a grudge against their former colonial overlords, the English, when their previous rulers, the Mughals, were arguably just as foreign (intially) and more vicious?

I personally am still upset aboout the battle of Adrianopolis (376), but it's hard to find any Goths to take my upset out on. And therein, perhaps, lies part of the answer. The Mongols, like the Caliphate, left the stage. The Crusaders (generically known as Franks) are still around in the guise of the West, which has remained an important player in the geopolitics of our day, and so of course is a convenient whipping boy.