Would you agree:
Religion is born often out of mystical experience
Religion is an attempt to describe the world around us
Religion uses the logic and knowledge available at the time to do so
Religion requires use of unprovable points to maintain consistency
Religion often has those who follow rotely and dogmatically to further its advancement
NOPE. At least not the God, the Father of Christ, and Christian Bible.
You do realize that bullet point 2 is in complete contradiction with bullet point 4.
It is not at all. How then do you propose to get over the existence of Godel Sentences? Or the fact that Induction falls to infinite regress as shown by Hume, Popper, and Turing?
IF you are attempting to apply those points to science, you have failed.
Science is not mystical
What exactly do we mean when we say mysticism or when we talk of mystical experience? Perhaps it is best if we discovered this through the context itself, which is to say through examples. We do have hordes of them, after all. And they paint their own picture.
Let us first put our attention towards those cases where vast improvements in science, technology, or understanding came through relatively normal (if indeed any of these accounts could be said to be ‘normal’) visions or dreams. Surprisingly it has happened more often than we’d first guess. Perhaps it occurs much more often - as one might be hesitant to talk of such experiences due to social stigma.
The most famous of these visions is like Einstein’s. As a small child in school he had a vision of himself running alongside light. From this he said his work on relativity followed.
Another notable example is Nikola Tesla, known for his integral part in the design of modern alternating current. One day he was taking an ordinary walk as any of us might and a vision appeared to him of rotating burning wheels. From this came the invention of the Electric Motor in 1887.
Dreams as we can see are not an uncommon method of inspiration and enlightenment. Otto Loewi, the father of neuroscience, had a dream on Easter Sunday 1923. He woke up, grabbed a nearby pad and scribbled down an experiment to prove that the transmission of nerve impulses was chemical and not electrical. In the morning, struggle as he could he simply could not read his writing. Luckily for us he had the same dream the next day and this upon waking went straight to work, and won himself a Nobel Prize for it.
Ahh, but there are more! So much more that we must be dainty in our selection, for like Rowbotham we are overwhelmed by the truth in all directions. So much more we must question how blind those are who deny that science is irrational at its core!
August Keke discovered the ring shape of the benzene molecule under the influence of a day dream. In 1855 he had a daydream of the ouroboros while on a horse-drawn omnibus in London. To him it appeared as dancing atoms and molecules that directly led to his discovery.
Paul Davies recalls another for us in The Mind of God
For other scientists the revelatory experience happens spontaneously, in the midst of the daily clamor. Fred Hoyle relates such an incident that occurred to him while he was driving through the North of England. “Rather as the revelation occurred to Paul on the Road to Damascus, mine occurred on the road over Bowes Moor.” …. One day, as they were struggling over a particularly complicated integral, Hoyle decided to take a vacation from Cambridge to join some colleagues hiking in the Scottish Highlands:
“As the miles slipped by I turned the quantum mechanical problem … over in my mind, in the hazy way I normally have in thinking mathematics in my head. Normally, I have to write things down on paper, and then fiddle with the equations and integrals as best I can. But somewhere on Bowes Moor my awareness of the mathematics clarified, not a little, not even a lot, but as if a huge brilliant light had suddenly been switched on.”
Paul Dirac, known to some as The Mystic of the Atom, would frequently have small revelations that guided his work. Off taking a walk to get away from his work one day on the Cambridgeshire countryside when out of blue he gained slight visual insight into the problem at hand: the non-commuting quantities in Heisenberg's theory. This was pretty common for him. (126 The Strangest Man, Graham Farmelo)
So often do insights come from these non-mundane sources it is inevitable that some would try to reach such states to steal insight through non-natural methods. And this is exactly what folks do.
Thomas Crick, co-discoverer of the double Helix structure of DNA, tells the story of how his use of LSD lead to this amazing discovery. He reveals to us that he would regularly take LSD and that it helped him to understand the structure of DNA, and thus winning him the Nobel Prize.
Kary Mullis tells the BBC in their Psychedelic Scene documentary:
“What if I had not taken LSD ever, would I have still invented PCR? I don’t know. I doubt it. I seriously doubt it.”
The evidence is stacking. Hordes upon hordes of instances, such that we only need to show a few to expose the truth. And yet like the walking dead they shamble around us. Hungry to be heard.
Carl Sagan was often known to smoke cannabis which he claimed in Marihuana Reconsidered “helped him intellectually.” Richard Feynman set up deprivation tanks and experimented with pot to “explore human consciousness”. Edison fueled his life by Vin Mariani, a cocaine infused wine that allowed him to sleep only 4 hours a night. Steve Jobs recounts his LSD experience as the “single most important event of my life.” But enough about those who found their way artificially. Far more interesting are the tales of natural experiences of this sort. Those that touch us to believe there is another abstract Platonic realm.
As it happens accomplished Physicist and Mathematician Roger Penrose has spoken often of “breaking through to the Platonic Realm.” Godel as well talked of experience with a realm where he could perceive mathematical objects. Of course this theme is not new to mysticism.
Others tell of an almost sixth sense from which they receive revelation. Einstein would talk of the "old one" and his religious feelings quite often. Both David Bohm and Brian Josephson, another nobel prize winner, are known to meditate to gain mystical insights to guide their creation of theory.
David Peat talks of his experiences
A remarkable feeling of intensity that seems to flood the whole world around us with meaning … we sense that we are touching something universal and perhaps eternal so that the particular moment in time takes on a numinous character and seems to expand in time without limit. We sense that all boundaries between ourselves and the outer world vanish, for what we are experiencing lies beyond all categories and all attempts to be captured in logical thought
Okay, I can see you’ve had enough. But alas, there is so much more!
Here we must mention those ideas that sprang from decidedly mystical origins. A prime example being Heliocentrism whose origins of course are from mystical traditions in both Ancient Greek and Ancient Egypt. Aside from heliocentrism, Copernicus’s view that god can be known through study of the universe is what put his famous work on the Church’s Restricted Book List - it had nothing to do with some war between science and religion. Likewise, Faraday’s passion was summed up by his statement: “unravelling the mysteries of nature was to discover the manifestations of god.” Johannes Kepler saw God as a geometer and was influenced strongly by numerology. Newton was a strong believer in astrology.
Science does work to describe the universe. Okay you got one point in 5.
Science uses the logic and knowledge available at the time to do so two points out of 5 You're 60% wrong.
Science requires use of unprovable points to maintain consistency. This point is so wrong I am tempted remove a point.
Your last point is just as bad.
Religion is faith. Again see Hebrews 11:1.
Science is observation, experiment, math and verification. Religion cannot abide as a science. Nothing in religion is provable while science is. If science is wrong changes. when religion is wrong, nothing changes. Please tell me you can grasp that difference.
As Thomas Kuhn points out,
the expert in scientific advance "normal" science cannot progress without dogma and faith or there would be no 'puzzle' for the 'puzzle solvers' to solve.