Flat Earth and Flight

The maps I have seen of a FE would indicate that at trip from say SF California to Thailand would be faster and shorter by flying across Alaska to Siberia, China and through Northern Thailand.

The route I took was SF California to Honolulu, to Guam, Philippines to Bangkok then north to my duty station in northern Thailand.  Like going from London to NYC via Rio, IF the FE were real.

 

Get a globe and put a string between your starting and ending points and pull it tight.  Did you think you really took the shortest rout there? 

I'm glad you took the time to notice it was flat .

I'm glad you took the time to notice it was flat .

Being that my flights TO and FROM Thailand never got close to the route a FE would make possible, how could you possibly in your wildest paranoid fantasies think I would notice an impossibility, like the Earth is flat?

Quote from: hoppy on March 21, 2016, 10:45:58 AM

I'm glad you took the time to notice it was flat .

Being that my flights TO and FROM Thailand never got close to the route a FE would make possible, how could you possibly in your wildest paranoid fantasies think I would notice an impossibility, like the Earth is flat?

Did your rout take the shortest path between your starting and ending points? 

Quote from: Round and Proud on March 21, 2016, 12:10:19 PM

Quote from: hoppy on March 21, 2016, 10:45:58 AM

I'm glad you took the time to notice it was flat .

Being that my flights TO and FROM Thailand never got close to the route a FE would make possible, how could you possibly in your wildest paranoid fantasies think I would notice an impossibility, like the Earth is flat?

Did your rout take the shortest path between your starting and ending points?

Even a cursory look at a globe shows that it pretty much is the shortest route; given the multi stop nature.

Quote from: Round and Proud on March 21, 2016, 12:10:19 PM

Quote from: hoppy on March 21, 2016, 10:45:58 AM

I'm glad you took the time to notice it was flat .

Being that my flights TO and FROM Thailand never got close to the route a FE would make possible, how could you possibly in your wildest paranoid fantasies think I would notice an impossibility, like the Earth is flat?

Did your rout take the shortest path between your starting and ending points?

No. The Stop in Guam was bring Airmen to their new assignment, same of PI and in Thailand. But most of us (90%+) were going to Air Bases in Thailand as our destination.

For speed and cost effectiveness it would have been better (in a FE) to fly the route I gave in OP for Thailand, with separate flight the Guam and PI.

It only makes sense in a RE to take that route. My first wife was from Thailand and in her visits home it was LA to Tokyo to Hong Kong to Bangkok, with the return being the exact reverse, which is again proof of a RE as in an FE it is the long way to go to all 3 stops plus the route is not cost effective.

There's no map FEers say is completely accurate.

There's no map FEers say is completely accurate.

It is actually a very effective strategy. You can't argue the validity of a theory when there is no single answer to any question asked. It really depends on which flat earther answered the thread last.

Quote from: Jane on March 21, 2016, 01:05:54 PM

There's no map FEers say is completely accurate.

It is actually a very effective strategy. You can't argue the validity of a theory when there is no single answer to any question asked. It really depends on which flat earther answered the thread last.

Exactly. To disprove something, it needs to have properties. There need to be ways to be able to find contradictions, even if just hypothetically. FET doesn't have that. Every FEer gives different answers, and the most common answers are too vague to be of much value.
All you can really do is disprove aspects of various FE models. With the sheer number out there, though...

Quote from: Inkey on March 21, 2016, 01:15:11 PM

Quote from: Jane on March 21, 2016, 01:05:54 PM

There's no map FEers say is completely accurate.

It is actually a very effective strategy. You can't argue the validity of a theory when there is no single answer to any question asked. It really depends on which flat earther answered the thread last.

Exactly. To disprove something, it needs to have properties. There need to be ways to be able to find contradictions, even if just hypothetically. FET doesn't have that. Every FEer gives different answers, and the most common answers are too vague to be of much value.
All you can really do is disprove aspects of various FE models. With the sheer number out there, though...

And the reverse is true. You cannot prove FE if you keep changing the laws the FE must work in.  I see a lot of "In my opinion," "I believe," "I think," "It seems to me."   But I have never seen "He's that math the proves this property and here are experiments that validate the math."

Sad really. FET should be FER as in Flat Earth Religion, because that is what going on here. Faith in a belief is not science.

And yes I am a Christian and I know it comes down to faith. However the prophecies made about things have more going for them than what I have seen in FET here.

And the reverse is true. You cannot prove FE if you keep changing the laws the FE must work in.  I see a lot of "In my opinion," "I believe," "I think," "It seems to me."   But I have never seen "He's that math the proves this property and here are experiments that validate the math."

To be fair, there are enough models out there that it's hard to keep track of who holds to what (barring more distinctive models), so a lot of people may well keep the laws they rely on constant. Experiments-wise, they just go off what's already been done: which is fair enough. The number of experiments that've been performed pretty much covers anything accessible for most users on this site that could be used to show anything.
I have seen a few experiments proposed around the forum, but most aren't all that doable.

Sad really. FET should be FER as in Flat Earth Religion, because that is what going on here. Faith in a belief is not science.

And yes I am a Christian and I know it comes down to faith. However the prophecies made about things have more going for them than what I have seen in FET here.

I believe that the reverse can be said for the round earth theory as well. I have never personally seen the curvature of the earth, I have never been in space, I have never done any type of experimentation to prove the Earth is round. I choose to believe that the people who have done these things are telling the truth, that the pictures and videos from space are real and not CGI.

In the end it is faith, not in a belief, but in humanity. That in general people tell the truth and that no conspiracy involving as many people as a flat earth would require would be possible.

Quote from: Round and Proud on March 23, 2016, 11:04:59 AM

Sad really. FET should be FER as in Flat Earth Religion, because that is what going on here. Faith in a belief is not science.

And yes I am a Christian and I know it comes down to faith. However the prophecies made about things have more going for them than what I have seen in FET here.

I believe that the reverse can be said for the round earth theory as well. I have never personally seen the curvature of the earth, I have never been in space, I have never done any type of experimentation to prove the Earth is round. I choose to believe that the people who have done these things are telling the truth, that the pictures and videos from space are real and not CGI.

In the end it is faith, not in a belief, but in humanity. That in general people tell the truth and that no conspiracy involving as many people as a flat earth would require would be possible.

However, to be fair, you can do a lot of those experiments. Take a plane flight and gauge flight times, and see how in line that is with FET vs RET. Watch a ship go over the horizon. Learn meteorology and successfully predict the future by using the coriolis effect (ie: RET). Take a trip to Antarctica and watch the midnight Sun.
RET can be tested by anyone, in theory. If it were a conspiracy, why would it be so weak?

Quote from: Round and Proud on March 23, 2016, 11:04:59 AM

Sad really. FET should be FER as in Flat Earth Religion, because that is what going on here. Faith in a belief is not science.

And yes I am a Christian and I know it comes down to faith. However the prophecies made about things have more going for them than what I have seen in FET here.

I believe that the reverse can be said for the round earth theory as well. I have never personally seen the curvature of the earth, I have never been in space, I have never done any type of experimentation to prove the Earth is round. I choose to believe that the people who have done these things are telling the truth, that the pictures and videos from space are real and not CGI.

In the end it is faith, not in a belief, but in humanity. That in general people tell the truth and that no conspiracy involving as many people as a flat earth would require would be possible.

Not sure Inky what you think I believe. So to be sure you understand even when my screen name should make it clear. The Earth is round. And the Earth orbits the sun with the rest of the planets

Quote from: Inkey on March 23, 2016, 07:57:32 PM

Quote from: Round and Proud on March 23, 2016, 11:04:59 AM

Sad really. FET should be FER as in Flat Earth Religion, because that is what going on here. Faith in a belief is not science.

And yes I am a Christian and I know it comes down to faith. However the prophecies made about things have more going for them than what I have seen in FET here.

I believe that the reverse can be said for the round earth theory as well. I have never personally seen the curvature of the earth, I have never been in space, I have never done any type of experimentation to prove the Earth is round. I choose to believe that the people who have done these things are telling the truth, that the pictures and videos from space are real and not CGI.

In the end it is faith, not in a belief, but in humanity. That in general people tell the truth and that no conspiracy involving as many people as a flat earth would require would be possible.

Not sure Inky what you think I believe. So to be sure you understand even when my screen name should make it clear. The Earth is round. And the Earth orbits the sun with the rest of the planets

We both agree the Earth is round, I was simply saying that my belief that the Earth is round I also a matter of faith the same as a flat Earther. The difference is that I tend to believe scientists or astronauts when they talk about their experiences where a flat earther believes they are lying.

However, to be fair, you can do a lot of those experiments. Take a plane flight and gauge flight times, and see how in line that is with FET vs RET. Watch a ship go over the horizon. Learn meteorology and successfully predict the future by using the coriolis effect (ie: RET). Take a trip to Antarctica and watch the midnight Sun.
RET can be tested by anyone, in theory. If it were a conspiracy, why would it be so weak?

I agree I could go out and perform experiments to show myself the Earth is round, I haven't done so yet though. In fact my belief that I could perform the experiments and that they would prove the Earth is round is also a matter of faith. Until I actually go out and perform the experiments I am just taking people at their word that the experiments will work as they have described.

If the flat Earth people had more credible experiments I could perform, I might actually go out and try them, but as far as I can tell there aren't any. And booking a flight it Antarctica or from south America to Australia is beyond what I am will to spend on these ideas in both money and time.

Having crossed the Pacific twice and holding a pilot's certificate, I can say navigation on a FE with round RE math will get you lost fast.  One reason is the lines of Longitude, they are not uniforms in distance apart. where as Latitude is.

Find a used book store and find a copy of a Student Pilot Flight Manual and read up on navigation. It will sure open your eyes on how RE nav works. And if you have even a middle school grasp of math it becomes clear the nav will not work in FET

Having crossed the Pacific twice and holding a pilot's certificate, I can say navigation on a FE with round RE math will get you lost fast.  One reason is the lines of Longitude, they are not uniforms in distance apart. where as Latitude is.

Find a used book store and find a copy of a Student Pilot Flight Manual and read up on navigation. It will sure open your eyes on how RE nav works. And if you have even a middle school grasp of math it becomes clear the nav will not work in FET

You are not understanding what I am saying. I agree that navigation on a flat earth would be completely different, especially in the southern hemisphere. I work in the aviation field, I understand how aircraft navigation works. There is no need to try to open my eyes to navigation or to make sure I have a middle schoolers grasp on math.

What I am saying is that I have personally never flown an aircraft, I have never been to the Southern Hemisphere. I trust that you have flown across the Pacific and believe you when you say it would be impossible on a flat Earth. But that requires me to believe you, it is an act of faith.

Believing things I have personally never experienced or seen with my own two eyes is an act of trust and faith.