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Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth

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EvolvedMantisShrimp

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #210 on: December 26, 2017, 07:33:57 PM »
Quote from: 9111315 on December 26, 2017, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: EvolvedMantisShrimp on December 25, 2017, 05:41:58 PM
Why not laser measure the bridge? You set a laser about 25 meters above the bridge level to the bridge's surface on line end and set a target at the same height on the other side. The laser will tell you how much the bridge curves over it's length if at all.

The same could be done on any large lake. One person on each shore and a third in a boat. Measure the distance from the water to the laser at each shore, adjust to make the equal and then measure the distance in the middle from a boat.
Hell, if the Earth really was flat, the same could be done across the Pacific Ocean. I'd use a taller mast, but it should work. And it's a relatively cheap test. Not just any laser can travel that far through atmosphere, but there are some that can and they only run a few thousand dollars.
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9111315

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #211 on: December 26, 2017, 07:44:37 PM »
Quote from: EvolvedMantisShrimp on December 26, 2017, 07:33:57 PM
Quote from: 9111315 on December 26, 2017, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: EvolvedMantisShrimp on December 25, 2017, 05:41:58 PM
Why not laser measure the bridge? You set a laser about 25 meters above the bridge level to the bridge's surface on line end and set a target at the same height on the other side. The laser will tell you how much the bridge curves over it's length if at all.

The same could be done on any large lake. One person on each shore and a third in a boat. Measure the distance from the water to the laser at each shore, adjust to make the equal and then measure the distance in the middle from a boat.
Hell, if the Earth really was flat, the same could be done across the Pacific Ocean. I'd use a taller mast, but it should work. And it's a relatively cheap test. Not just any laser can travel that far through atmosphere, but there are some that can and they only run a few thousand dollars.

Very true. Got any friends in Japan.

One problem with the generalists is that they will pick a very small lake and then measure to the closest inch. The just are not very precise.
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gotham

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #212 on: April 18, 2018, 04:35:18 PM »
What hasn't been explored yet in this thread is what a bridge building enterprise would say about the myth of bridge curvature having anything to do with Earth shape.

Done deal.  Confirmed by bridge builders that Earth shape is not part of the planning process.

It's like grabbing at straws with round Earth believers.  As many times as they try to find something, anything to prove their claim they fail in...

the end.   
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Mikey T.

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #213 on: April 18, 2018, 06:25:28 PM »
Quote from: gotham on April 18, 2018, 04:35:18 PM
What hasn't been explored yet in this thread is what a bridge building enterprise would say about the myth of bridge curvature having anything to do with Earth shape.

Done deal.  Confirmed by bridge builders that Earth shape is not part of the planning process.

It's like grabbing at straws with round Earth believers.  As many times as they try to find something, anything to prove their claim they fail in...

the end.   

In reality, since they were building the bridge to be the same height above the water, and water conforms the the container it is in or on, they did in fact take the curvature of the Earth into effect when building it.  Treat it like a constant or a given fact. 
I don't recalculate the resistance of every gauge of wire I may use based on cross section size and electron flow through the specific material composition.  I use the constant for the standard gauge of wire per ft.  Did I use the calculations of the electron flow through a material?  Yes and no.  I used a constant already calculated.  Could I verify this constant, Yes, and I did so in a few laboratory exercises while at the university.  Do I know the specific binary machine code that my ladder logic in PLC systems uses?  No, but I can determine it.  Does this mean that since I programed it in ladder logic that binary machine code is a big lie?  or for that matter assembly that underlies the structured code or the basic structured code of and/or type logic that underlies the ladder logic?  Using your reasoning, all of those are lies since I never use them in my day to day work.  Pathetic at best.
Your lack of logical reasoning skills and your prevalence for paranoid delusions of grandeur do not equate to evidence of some grand conspiracy.   I really wish you guys could stop using your ignorance of how something works to justify your paranoia.  Again, the established and thoroughly tested nature of the Earth is of a spheroid shape.  You are making the claim that it is not.  You cannot provide a simple model that you all agree on.  You cannot provide a single set of explanations for what people see on Earth that you all can agree on and that doesn't contradict itself at almost every turn.  You cannot even agree on anything.  Just once, please for the love of God, provide a basic set of parameters for your flat Earth that doesn't get ripped to shreds by testing those parameters from different places on Earth.  Provide something, anything.  I have been here going on, I think 4 years now, begging, pleading, returning insults, etc. trying just to get one basic answer from you guys.  The one that has done the most to support his model is JROWE.  He refuses to back up his assertions and gets volatile about being questioned, but I still respect him for fucking trying.  You guys are all sad trolls who are feeding off of each other.  Oh you told this "globe head" or you made that "roundie" mad.  Again, purely and utterly pathetic. 
Queue your incessant need to throw out some idiotic troll comment about me being mad or lying about something.  Wait, you may just ignore me to get your way. 
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Dirk

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #214 on: April 18, 2018, 08:47:32 PM »
Quote from: Rayzor on February 18, 2016, 11:25:06 PM
Quote from: Alan Flatearth on February 18, 2016, 06:53:24 PM
Show me this proof. I think you are talking big. The math is the math. Oh wait, are you using the new shape of the earth as explained by Neil DeGrasse Tyson? It's spheroid, pear shaped, chubby thing. Bullshit, the lighthouse proof is solid and if you studied it you know that.
At least be honest like the textbook writers and admit you don't know. SHOW ME these proofs you speak of.

Here is a plot of lighthouse visibility versus height of the light above sea level,   taking into account standard correction for refraction and a bridge height of 30 ft above the water line.



The formula for calculating distance to the horizon, including refraction correction for standard atmosphere  is  D =  3.86 * sqrt ( h )    h = height in meters,  D = distance in km.


The Planier lighthouse  is   66 meters asl,   and is visible for 43 km,   calculated distance is 43 km,   Flat Earthers claim the calculated value is 29 km
The Jeddah lighthouse      is 113 meters asl,  and is visible for 46 km,   calculated distance is 53 km,   Flat Earthers claim the calculated value is 38 km
The Ile Vierge lighthouse  is   82.5 meters asl,   and is visible for 50 km,   calculated distance is 47 km,   Flat Earthers claim the calculated value is 33 km
The Genoa lighthouse  is 76 meters asl,  and is visible for 46 km,   calculated distance is 45 km,   Flat Earthers claim the calculated value is 31 km

The conclusion is that if you do the calculations properly,  the flat earth argument,  falls flat on its face ( once again )

For details of the formula derivation go to ... 
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~aty/explain/atmos_refr/horizon.html

Calculation of ducting effects. 
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~aty/explain/atmos_refr/bending.html

Only saw now the posts about lighthouse heights.

If the earth is flat and there are seldom higher waves than 10 meters in the Mediterranean Sea, why does the Genoa lighthouse have a height of 76 m? It stands on a small hill with a height of 41 m. So, why 117 m above sea level?

You could say, todays cruise ships are very high. Yes, but they don’t park all day and night in front of the lighthouse. And if there are ships in front of it for a longer time period, then these are smaller container ships. Not even half the height of the lighthouse’s light.

So, shouldn’t a simple house with a light be sufficient? It would already be 41 m above sea level. If earth is flat, then the lighthouse’s light would also travel from this height the current 46 km. Why the effort?

And also, the first lighthouse tower at the same place was built in the twelfth century and it had the same height as the current one. What reason did they have then to build such a high tower?
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JackBlack

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #215 on: April 19, 2018, 02:03:15 PM »
Quote from: gotham on April 18, 2018, 04:35:18 PM
Done deal.  Confirmed by bridge builders that Earth shape is not part of the planning process.
Says you.
All that would indicate is that the tolerances requires to make the pieces join to follow the curve are tiny compared to other tolerances, such as thermal expansion.


Quote from: gotham on April 18, 2018, 04:35:18 PM
It's like grabbing at straws with round Earth believers.  As many times as they try to find something, anything to prove their claim they fail in...
You keep getting RE and FE mixed up.

REers provided solid evidence that Earth is round.
FEers are then grasping at whatever straws they can to pathetically pretend Earth isn't round.
Just like you have done again.
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MicroBeta

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #216 on: April 20, 2018, 02:44:25 AM »
Quote from: gotham on April 18, 2018, 04:35:18 PM
What hasn't been explored yet in this thread is what a bridge building enterprise would say about the myth of bridge curvature having anything to do with Earth shape.

Done deal.  Confirmed by bridge builders that Earth shape is not part of the planning process.

It's like grabbing at straws with round Earth believers.  As many times as they try to find something, anything to prove their claim they fail in...

the end.
The shape of the earth is indirectly part of the planning process.  The bridge is designed to a given height above the surface of the water.  This clearly results in a curve to follow the curvature of the earth.

Mike
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rabinoz

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #217 on: April 20, 2018, 05:38:21 AM »
Quote from: MicroBeta on April 20, 2018, 02:44:25 AM
Quote from: gotham on April 18, 2018, 04:35:18 PM
What hasn't been explored yet in this thread is what a bridge building enterprise would say about the myth of bridge curvature having anything to do with Earth shape.

Done deal.  Confirmed by bridge builders that Earth shape is not part of the planning process.

It's like grabbing at straws with round Earth believers.  As many times as they try to find something, anything to prove their claim they fail in...

the end.
The shape of the earth is indirectly part of the planning process.  The bridge is designed to a given height above the surface of the water.  This clearly results in a curve to follow the curvature of the earth.

Mike
This video by a geodesic surveyor might be worth looking at:

Flat Earth Curvature Confusion, Jesse Kozlowski
At 16:13 he looks at the "missing curvature found" across Lake Pontchartrain.

This is another video on "Flat Earth Proof?" though not on Lake Pontchartrain Causeway.

Flat Earth Proof? - Show Us The Measurements, Jesse Kozlowski
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gotham

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #218 on: April 21, 2018, 01:06:59 PM »
We are at cross purposes since I can tell you that the bridge rises above the water to avoid the waves and that any curvature is planned for stresses known to occur after traffic is added to the equation.

Lighthouses were built tall to allow masted ships to not interfere with functionality.

The history of travel at sea is and was a record of flat Earth transportation. It is from the voices of those who traveled by sea that know this.  Why round Earth believers want to use bridge building, lighthouse construction, and travel by sea to prove their claim is, in the end, doomed to failure which in all reality a good thing for those in support of FET.


 

 
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JackBlack

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #219 on: April 21, 2018, 02:26:45 PM »
Quote from: gotham on April 21, 2018, 01:06:59 PM
We are at cross purposes since I can tell you that the bridge rises above the water to avoid the waves and that any curvature is planned for stresses known to occur after traffic is added to the equation.
Yes, you can repeatedly lie to us, it wont change the fact.
The bridge (at least at the pylons) is the same height above the water, yet there is a noticeable curve.
WHY?
The only rational explanation is that the water itself is curved, following the curvature of Earth to remain level.

Quote from: gotham on April 21, 2018, 01:06:59 PM
Lighthouses were built tall to allow masted ships to not interfere with functionality.
So you have a masted ship with a mast ~ 100 m tall?

Quote from: gotham on April 21, 2018, 01:06:59 PM
The history of travel at sea is and was a record of flat Earth transportation.
Nope. It has been and always will be a record of ROUND Earth transportation.
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rabinoz

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #220 on: April 21, 2018, 02:55:48 PM »
Quote from: gotham on April 21, 2018, 01:06:59 PM
We are at cross purposes since I can tell you that the bridge rises above the water to avoid the waves and that any curvature is planned for stresses known to occur after traffic is added to the equation.

Lighthouses were built tall to allow masted ships to not interfere with functionality.
Then why are some lighthouses quite low and others very high? Look at these US lighthouses:
From Ida Lewis (Lime Rock), Rhode Island 13' and  East Charity Shoal, New York 16' to Statue of Liberty, New York 305' and Perry's Victory Memorial, Ohio 352'.

Yes, lighthouses are constructed very different heights depending on the visibility distance needed. Please explain!

Quote from: gotham
The history of travel at sea is and was a record of flat Earth transportation. It is from the voices of those who traveled by sea that know this.
Again, you have it the wrong way around.

This 1689 map of the known world sure does not look like a map of the flat earth:

Map of the world produced in 1689
by Gerard van Schagen.
Please explain why many early navigators carried terrestrial Globes with then. Look at these old Dutch sailors with their Terrestrial and Celestial Globes:

"The light of navigation", Dutch sailing handbook, 1608, showing compass, hourglass,
sea astrolabe, terrestrial and celestial globes, divider, Jacob's staff and astrolabe.
And
Quote
In 1537, Pedro Nunes published his Tratado da Sphera. In this book he included two original treatises about questions of navigation. For the first time the subject was approached using mathematical tools. This publication gave rise to a new scientific discipline: "theoretical or scientific navigation".
No, these old sailors knew the earth was a Globe, no question about it!

Quote from: gotham
Why round Earth believers want to use bridge building, lighthouse construction, and travel by sea to prove their claim is, in the end, doomed to failure which in all reality a good thing for those in support of FET.
If you bothered to look, it is mainly flat-earthers trying to prove the earth flat using these as evidence.
Flat-earthers (including your own John Davis) commonly  erroneously claim that the curvature of the earth is ignored in the construction of long bridges and
that the visibility of these lighthouses from a great distance "proves" the earth flat.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 02:29:19 PM by rabinoz »
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Mikey T.

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #221 on: April 21, 2018, 04:53:35 PM »
The level of self imposed ignorance is astonishing. 
You don't want to believe, therefore you create alternative reasons that contradict commonly understood things that destroy your naively held paranoid delusions. 
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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #222 on: April 21, 2018, 06:31:22 PM »


Nova Orbis Tabula in Lucem Edita
ca. 1665
Frederick de Wit


I have a lithograph of this hanging on my wall.
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rabinoz

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #223 on: April 21, 2018, 09:48:19 PM »
Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on April 21, 2018, 06:31:22 PM
Nova Orbis Tabula in Lucem Edita, ca. 1665, Frederick de Wit

I have a lithograph of this hanging on my wall.
::) ::) And I suppose it's a  ;) flat map ;) and both totallackey and gotham would claim that proves the earth flat. ::) ::)
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gotham

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #224 on: April 22, 2018, 04:15:10 PM »
"Commonly understood things" as created, written, and studied by round Earth believers are a travesty to what reality presents to us.  You do have learn by observation, NOT just look at what your predecessors have penned and passed along through the regimen of current educational facilities.

You can learn a lot from a trained observer and they are near and available to teach truths.

Flat maps have come a long way since those illustrated in the 17th century examples.  Globes then and now are not accurate and do not reflect a reality of things understood by the many and growing number of FEers.
   
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rabinoz

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #225 on: April 22, 2018, 05:06:23 PM »
Quote from: gotham on April 22, 2018, 04:15:10 PM
"Commonly understood things" as created, written, and studied by round Earth believers are a travesty to what reality presents to us.  You do have learn by observation, NOT just look at what your predecessors have penned and passed along through the regimen of current educational facilities.
So sorry to disappoint you, but:
I do learn by observation! I see the sun appear to rise from behind an obstacle, even over the ocean, and therefore conclude that the earth's surface is probably curved.

I see the sun and especially appear the same size right from when they appear to rise to when they appear to set and conclude that thet are much further away than "the size of the earth".

So when my personal observations fit that my "predecessors have penned" I have no reason to doubt the current Globe model.

Quote from: gotham
You can learn a lot from a trained observer and they are near and available to teach truths.
Well, where are these "trained observers"? Are you sure that you don't mean observers indoctrinated into the flat earth hypothesis.

Quote from: gotham
Flat maps have come a long way since those illustrated in the 17th century examples.  Globes then and now are not accurate and do not reflect a reality of things understood by the many and growing number of FEers.
"Flat maps" may "have come a long way since those illustrated in the 17th century examples", but not "flat earth maps" - there is a big difference.
If you disagree, show me any accurate flat earth map of the whole world!
I have asked you repeatedly for this, but you refuse to supply any so I am forced to assume that you do not have any accurate flat earth maps!

The only inaccuracy in modern Globes is because of their limitation in size. If you disagree, please point out the errors in say, Google Earth - the "ultimate Globe".

There might be some locations that have never been mapped accurately, but if they've never been mapped accurately they cannot show accurately on any map.
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Dirk

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #226 on: April 22, 2018, 07:27:03 PM »
Quote from: rabinoz on April 22, 2018, 05:06:23 PM
If you disagree, show me any accurate flat earth map of the whole world!
I have asked you repeatedly for this, but you refuse to supply any so I am forced to assume that you do not have any accurate flat earth maps!

You will never see one definite flat earth map. Because then it would be possible to compare flat earth distances with observed dstances.

You will also never see one definite flat earth paths (e.g. time, point vertically above earth, distance at point) of sun, moon, etc. because then the calculated flat earth angles at different locations on earth could be compared with measured angles.
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robintex

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #227 on: April 22, 2018, 10:58:23 PM »
Quote from: gotham on April 21, 2018, 01:06:59 PM
We are at cross purposes since I can tell you that the bridge rises above the water to avoid the waves and that any curvature is planned for stresses known to occur after traffic is added to the equation.

Lighthouses were built tall to allow masted ships to not interfere with functionality.

The history of travel at sea is and was a record of flat Earth transportation. It is from the voices of those who traveled by sea that know this.  Why round Earth believers want to use bridge building, lighthouse construction, and travel by sea to prove their claim is, in the end, doomed to failure which in all reality a good thing for those in support of FET.

I have suggested this many times. But if you flat earthers would get the courage and talk to someone....For example......Someone in the Navy (any nation's) you would find out how foolish and false your idea that the earth is flat really is.
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Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !
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JackBlack

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #228 on: April 22, 2018, 11:06:33 PM »
Quote from: gotham on April 22, 2018, 04:15:10 PM
Flat maps have come a long way since those illustrated in the 17th century examples.  Globes then and now are not accurate and do not reflect a reality of things understood by the many and growing number of FEers.
FE maps have not improved since then, only projections of the globe.
The globe map is still accurate as it was back then, as some of the most accurate maps we have available.

Of course it doesn't reflect a "reality of things" as understood by FEers, as they don't seem to understand reality.
But they do reflect reality quite well; actual reality, not the FEers understanding of it.
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rabinoz

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #229 on: April 23, 2018, 01:47:38 AM »
Quote from: JackBlack on April 22, 2018, 11:06:33 PM
Quote from: gotham on April 22, 2018, 04:15:10 PM
Flat maps have come a long way since those illustrated in the 17th century examples.  Globes then and now are not accurate and do not reflect a reality of things understood by the many and growing number of FEers.
FE maps have not improved since then, only projections of the globe.
The globe map is still accurate as it was back then, as some of the most accurate maps we have available.

Of course it doesn't reflect a "reality of things" as understood by FEers, as they don't seem to understand reality.
But they do reflect reality quite well; actual reality, not the FEers understanding of it.
On the matter of current "map accuracy" just look at the requirements of projects like HALLANDSÅS RAILWAY TUNNELS, Skottorp - Förslöv.
The final length is 8.7 km and there is more information in Hallandsås Tunnel.

This pair of tunnels were bored from each end and tunnels bored from each were required to meet in the middle with a total error less than +/-100 mm.
But just consider that the entry points are about 8.7 km apart and on opposite sides of a mountain. The geodetic network reference points at that location in Sweden were not of sufficient to locate the starting point to with the required +/-50 mm. The first step then was to determine the precise locations of the end-points.

Does anyone have any flat-earth maps accurate to +/-50 mm?

A Masters Thesis was written investigating the problems and shows that Gyrotheodolites can be used to assist the alignment of the  Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) to the required accuracy, see Use of gyrotheodolite in underground control network, Ingemar Lewén.

Does anyone have an explanation how Gyrotheodolites could work on a stationary flat-earth?

Mind your, I find it to believe that end-points of the tunnels can be known to +/-50 mm, but these tunnels were constructed!
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Mikey T.

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #230 on: April 23, 2018, 05:29:36 AM »
Love the "Trained observer" bit.  I think I can claim that.  21 years in the military as a cavalry scout, aka direct on the ground, in front of the lines, reconnaissance.  During my last 4 years of that, I concurrently earned 2 engineering degrees.  I would say I've been trained pretty well in the art of observing and verifying.  But none of that is needed to destroy the FE claims.  A simple watching of the sunset does it with ease.  Just trolls, con-artists, and mentally deficent individuals continue to intentionally blind themselves to further to absolutely stupid FE notion. 
Yeah I got your trained observer creds.
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Unconvinced

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Re: Lake Pontchartrain Causeway Proves The Curvature Of The Earth
« Reply #231 on: April 23, 2018, 07:44:05 AM »
Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on April 21, 2018, 06:31:22 PM


Nova Orbis Tabula in Lucem Edita
ca. 1665
Frederick de Wit


I have a lithograph of this hanging on my wall.

This map is clearly of 4 flat earths, 2 big and 2 small.

;)
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