Constellations

I move around the world, starting from Sweden (where I live) going first to America, then continuing on to Australia, and then back to Sweden.

Explain the following:
The star constellations in the west horizon from Sweden will disappear below the horizon as I travel to America. And when I continue on to Australia, the constellations will appear just above the east horizon (from Australia). Perfectly reasonable on a round Earth. When I get back to Sweden, the star constellations will once again appear just above the west horizon, nothing has changed. If the Earth was flat, this would seem a bit strange.

No. You explain it.

I'd like to see the apparent observations for myself before I believed that what you claims happens actually happens.

I'd like to see the apparent observations for myself before I believed that what you claims happens actually happens.

Havent you ever been outside your country?
Most people have. Just observe the constellations over the horizon to the opposite direction from where you are planned to be heading, and then observe them as you go. I mean, of course, when you are going to travel over vast distances, not over to your neighbors house or another town close to your own.

That's all you need to do to "see those apparent observations" for yourself. I guess another alternative would be lies or whatever you call it, but it's definitely worth a try - is it not?

Could it not happen to be  that the constellations would happen to be moving, just when you make your journy. It could b a bizarre coincidence.

I move around the world, starting from Sweden (where I live) going first to America, then continuing on to Australia, and then back to Sweden.

Explain the following:
The star constellations in the west horizon from Sweden will disappear below the horizon as I travel to America. And when I continue on to Australia, the constellations will appear just above the east horizon (from Australia). Perfectly reasonable on a round Earth. When I get back to Sweden, the star constellations will once again appear just above the west horizon, nothing has changed. If the Earth was flat, this would seem a bit strange.

This is completely false. At the same local time, the same constellations are visible in the same parts of the sky at any longitude on earth, for a given lattitude. Of course, if you change your lattitude different stars will be visible (i.e. stars will disappear over the northern horizon and appear over the southern horizon as you go south), but this phenomena has been explained before.

Different stars are visible at different times of night because the stars circle above the earth, just like the sun does. However, the stars circle at a slightly lower rate (once every 23 hours and 56 minutes) instead of the sun which makes a circuit once every 24 hours. This difference in timing explains why the positions of the stars vary seasonally.

I'd like to see the apparent observations for myself before I believed that what you claims happens actually happens.

lol :roll:

Its obvious Beast is a fed. Why else would he claim to be from Australia?

Could it not happen to be  that the constellations would happen to be moving, just when you make your journy. It could b a bizarre coincidence.

No, not really.

I'd like to see the apparent observations for myself before I believed that what you claims happens actually happens.

Why are you telling us? If you wanna see it for yourself, Just go and see.

It could b a bizarre coincidence

Nice explanation. If it's a coincidence, it would still mean that it's happening.

Quote from: "beast"

I'd like to see the apparent observations for myself before I believed that what you claims happens actually happens.

Why are you telling us? If you wanna see it for yourself, Just go and see.

Quote

It could b a bizarre coincidence

Nice explanation. If it's a coincidence, it would still mean that it's happening.

It's not happening. See my above post. At the same local time, the same constellations are apparent in the same positions relative to the horizons and cardinal directions, anywhere on earth. This is verifiable fact. The original poster is either wrong or was talking about different local times, in which case the explanation is obvious: the stars circle above the earth just like the sun does.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Quote from: "beast"

I'd like to see the apparent observations for myself before I believed that what you claims happens actually happens.

Why are you telling us? If you wanna see it for yourself, Just go and see.

Quote

It could b a bizarre coincidence

Nice explanation. If it's a coincidence, it would still mean that it's happening.

It's not happening. See my above post. At the same local time, the same constellations are apparent in the same positions relative to the horizons and cardinal directions, anywhere on earth. This is verifiable fact. The original poster is either wrong or was talking about different local times, in which case the explanation is obvious: the stars circle above the earth just like the sun does.

Who dropped you on your head?  At the SAME TIME, the stars are different in different places.  Like, two different places, yet both night.

Don't say they're lying or anything.  Stars don't spin one way for some people, and another for other people, AT THE SAME TIME.

Who dropped you on your head?  At the SAME TIME, the stars are different in different places.  Like, two different places, yet both night.

Don't say they're lying or anything.  Stars don't spin one way for some people, and another for other people, AT THE SAME TIME.

I said at the same local time. As in 10pm local time in New York, and 10pm local time in Bangkok. How else can you compare stars in Bangkok to stars in New York, since it's not night in both places at once?

If you want to know why stars rise and set, it's for the exact same reason as the sun: the stars are circling above our heads just like the sun.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Quote from: "beast"

I'd like to see the apparent observations for myself before I believed that what you claims happens actually happens.

Why are you telling us? If you wanna see it for yourself, Just go and see.

Quote

It could b a bizarre coincidence

Nice explanation. If it's a coincidence, it would still mean that it's happening.

It's not happening. See my above post. At the same local time, the same constellations are apparent in the same positions relative to the horizons and cardinal directions, anywhere on earth. This is verifiable fact. The original poster is either wrong or was talking about different local times, in which case the explanation is obvious: the stars circle above the earth just like the sun does.

What I meant is that by suggesting that it's a coincidence, he accepts that the phenomenon happens, reguardless of wether it's possile or not.

There are constellations in Japan which are invisible to us who live in Sweden. Explain this instead of declaring it a lie.

Edit:
And please. Stars do not spin. They do not "set" or "rise". Get a telescope and start studying instead of making up arguments as you go.

There are constellations in Japan which are invisible to us who live in Sweden. Explain this instead of declaring it a lie.

Japan is South of Sweden, so there are constellations visible over the southern hemisphere invisible in Sweden. If you were at some point at the same latitude as Sweden, then at the same (local) time of night, exactly the same constellations would be visible.

And please. Stars do not spin. They do not "set" or "rise". Get a telescope and start studying instead of making up arguments as you go.

This is a photograph of the night sky taken with a very long exposure. You can clearly see stars not only spinning, but also rising and setting.

You can google hundreds of similar photos all showing the same thing.
For extra fun, click the period.

This is a photograph of the night sky taken with a very long exposure. You can clearly see stars not only spinning, but also rising and setting.

Yes, thats because the Earth is spinning. :roll:

The stars are stationary.

EDIT: I thought you said that photos can't be used as proof as they are too easy to edit/fake?

It does look pretty fake...

Quote from: "skeptical scientist"

This is a photograph of the night sky taken with a very long exposure. You can clearly see stars not only spinning, but also rising and setting.

Yes, thats because the Earth is spinning. :roll:

Whether you believe the FE or RE explanation for the phenomena, it clearly exists, and Xargo was denying it happened at all.

EDIT: I thought you said that photos can't be used as proof as they are too easy to edit/fake?

Photos in and of themselves are not proof, but this photo illustrates a phenomena that is easily observed, and anyone with their own camera and tripod could take a similar image showing the same thing. So while the image itself doesn't constitute proof, it represents an example of an experiment which anyone could easily perform themselves, and they would get the same results.

It does look pretty fake...

Fine. Take your own time lapse photo of the night sky and try to prove it's a fake. You won't be able to. There are hundreds of photographers who have done the same thing, because it produces beautiful and interesting images. I have one set as my desktop background right now.

regardeless of whether that image is naturally occuring, i reckon I could fake fake an image like that using photoshop

regardeless of whether that image is naturally occuring, i reckon I could fake fake an image like that using photoshop

I'm sure you could. I never said the image couldn't have been faked. I simply said that you could create your own image by taking a time lapse photo of the night sky, and if you did so, you would know that image, at least, wasn't faked. And since it would show the exact same phenomenon, the phenomenon shown in this image must be real, whether or not the image itself is.

By the way, there are hundred of similar images throughout the internet. You can find many of them by putting "star trails" into google image search. The proliferation of them shows just how easy it is to take one with your own camera. There's even one on the Wikipedia page for "pole star". Do you honestly think they're all faked?

I don't doubt the photos legitimacy, but it still doesn't support Flat Earth Hypothesis at all.

I don't doubt the photos legitimacy, but it still doesn't support Flat Earth Hypothesis at all.

Well, it supports flat and round earth equally well. I didn't post it to support FE theory. I posted it because Xargo was objecting to FE theory based on something which does not happen, and his claims which contradicted FE theory were demonstrably false. Stars do rise and set, and circle overhead. You may argue about whether this is because the earth is spinning or because the stars are, but in either case, it is an observable fact.

In other words, I was responding to Xargo's request of an explanation for a given phenomenon with the correct response, whether you believe FE or RE theory: the phenomenon Xargo described simply does not exist, period.

The phenomenon Xargo described simply does not exist, period.

It's not a phenomenon, though. And it does exist.
Just have a look if you are to travel to the other side of the world sometime, and you will see the proof with your own eyes.

Many astronomers have documented this 'phenomena' before.

It's not a phenomenon, though. And it does exist.
Just have a look if you are to travel to the other side of the world sometime, and you will see the proof with your own eyes.

Many astronomers have documented this 'phenomena' before.

I have said it before and I will say it again: at the same local time, the exact same stars are visible at the same time everywhere on a given latitude. Do you agree with this statement?

That said, as the night passes, the stars do move, rise, and set. So at two points at the same latitude in different times zones, at one instant (i.e. different local times) different stars will be visible at the two locations. For example, at 1am local time in Washington D.C., it's only 10pm in San Francisco, so there are stars visible in Washington D.C. that won't be visible until three hours later in San Francisco.

This is easily explained by flat earth theory however: according to the FE model, the stars circle overhead just like the sun does, and therefore they appear to rise and set like the sun.

This is easily explained by flat earth theory however: according to the FE model, the stars circle overhead just like the sun does, and therefore they appear to rise and set like the sun.

They couldn't rise or set if they are merely following a circular path above a flat surface. You'd see them get farther, but they'd never set

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This is easily explained by flat earth theory however: according to the FE model, the stars circle overhead just like the sun does, and therefore they appear to rise and set like the sun.

They couldn't rise or set if they are merely following a circular path above a flat surface. You'd see them get farther, but they'd never set

I think this has been covered before. The FEers say it's a perspective effect. I have my doubts, but assuming FE can come up with an explanation for sunsets, the same explanation would also work for the rising and setting of stars.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Quote

This is easily explained by flat earth theory however: according to the FE model, the stars circle overhead just like the sun does, and therefore they appear to rise and set like the sun.

They couldn't rise or set if they are merely following a circular path above a flat surface. You'd see them get farther, but they'd never set

I think this has been covered before. The FEers say it's a perspective effect. I have my doubts, but assuming FE can come up with an explanation for sunsets, the same explanation would also work for the rising and setting of stars.

Well, honestly, it was more pushed under the rug than adressed. Just saying "it's a perspective effect" does little to answer the question. Why would 2 people see the same thing when viewing a sunset from difffferent angles if it's caused by a "spolight" sun? How does that perspective effect work? What creates it? Where can it be duplicated? How do  I negate it?

Well, honestly, it was more pushed under the rug than adressed. Just saying "it's a perspective effect" does little to answer the question. Why would 2 people see the same thing when viewing a sunset from difffferent angles if it's caused by a "spolight" sun? How does that perspective effect work? What creates it? Where can it be duplicated? How do  I negate it?

Fair enough. This is the one aspect of FE theory which seems thinnest to me. I have yet to see an explanation which is even close to satisfactory.