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Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core

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Constellator

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Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« on: September 18, 2015, 08:36:04 PM »
On a Flat Earth, why is it that when earthquakes occur, seismologists can detect tremors all around the world, but not in places where it would be obstructed by the Earth's core on a Round Earth? And why does the strength of these tremors vary, from location to location, with the same patterns as a Round Earth model would have predicted?
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XaeXae

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2015, 06:41:57 AM »
Sismic waves have been used for decades to study Earth's interior composition. And, in a few years, the same thing will be done on Mars (oh yeah some of you still think it's a conspiracy, even if it was one the evidence on Earth is enough to prove RE model...). Don't tell all of this is a conspiracy, you can go, buy your own sismometer, dissect it to see what's inside, and test it. I think that except if we consider that Earth's core is also implied in the conspiracy, Flat Earh has been disproved by all of this.

You fat-earther can choose the model you want for Earth's interior composition, make your experiments, and compare the results ;)
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Serulian

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2015, 03:29:44 PM »
Quote from: Constellator on September 18, 2015, 08:36:04 PM
On a Flat Earth, why is it that when earthquakes occur, seismologists can detect tremors all around the world, but not in places where it would be obstructed by the Earth's core on a Round Earth? And why does the strength of these tremors vary, from location to location, with the same patterns as a Round Earth model would have predicted?


   It sounds to me like this is more an issue with the limits of the technology rather than the Earth's shape.
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Flopsinator

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2015, 04:08:49 PM »
If an earthquake happened to a flat earth, would it not break the entire earth like one of them "end of the world" movies?
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Constellator

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2015, 02:26:39 PM »
Quote from: Serulian on September 19, 2015, 03:29:44 PM
It sounds to me like this is more an issue with the limits of the technology rather than the Earth's shape.
I would agree with you, but these observations have repeated themselves many, many times. True, seismographs are somewhat crude, but all of the measurements taken with them demonstrate a very strong trend. It's like how Creationists argue that radiometric dating has too much margin for error and thus cannot be trusted. Nevertheless, approximate measurements repeated sufficiently makes solid scientific evidence.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 02:32:11 PM by Constellator »
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Misero

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2015, 02:31:20 PM »
Yes, but why is it perfectly lined up towards a RE prediction?
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Serulian

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2015, 05:27:24 PM »
If the readings would be obstructed by the core in RE theory, then the readings should be the exact same for the Flat Earth model. Why wouldn't they be?
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Charming Anarchist

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2015, 05:34:41 PM »
Quote from: Constellator on September 18, 2015, 08:36:04 PM
but not in places where it would be obstructed by the Earth's core on a Round Earth?
Citation? 
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Constellator

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2015, 07:00:32 PM »
Quote from: Charming Anarchist on September 20, 2015, 05:34:41 PM
Quote from: Constellator on September 18, 2015, 08:36:04 PM
but not in places where it would be obstructed by the Earth's core on a Round Earth?
Citation? 
It's called a seismic shadow zone. A quick Google search should get you plenty of sources. It's widespread knowledge. Seismic waves are also reflected, diffracted, and refracted by the Earth's core.

Quote from: Serulian on September 20, 2015, 05:27:24 PM
If the readings would be obstructed by the core in RE theory, then the readings should be the exact same for the Flat Earth model. Why wouldn't they be?

If the Earth were flat, seismic waves would simply radiate away from the point of the disturbance and slowly diminish, like a lightbulb in a dusty room. On a Round Earth, the patterns of seismic waves can be traced across paths that go on chords through the mantle, and are redirected and absorbed by some inner parts of the Earth. The effect is much different and much more complex than a simple diminishing of energy with distance away from the original disturbance. Even if seismic waves were incapable of traveling beneath the crust of the Earth and diminished constantly with distance, the effect would still be different from a Flat Earth, because the waves would travel around Antarctica and be detectable in places that would be on the other side of the world if the Earth were flat.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 07:04:54 PM by Constellator »
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Serulian

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2015, 09:19:06 AM »
There are other factors science ignores, such as conditions or substance below that we can not detect that may amplify or diminish seismic waves. Most of this argument ties into the theory of plate tectonics, which I do not agree with. I believe the expanding Earth theory makes more sense in my opinion.

Until we are able to delve deeper underground we can not be certain of the technology. To me that is the same as trying to identify the contents of a building using only X-rays.
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Swiftly Tilting Planet

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2015, 02:08:53 PM »
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Constellator

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2015, 04:01:32 PM »
Quote from: Serulian on September 21, 2015, 09:19:06 AM
There are other factors science ignores, such as conditions or substance below that we can not detect that may amplify or diminish seismic waves. Most of this argument ties into the theory of plate tectonics, which I do not agree with. I believe the expanding Earth theory makes more sense in my opinion.

Until we are able to delve deeper underground we can not be certain of the technology. To me that is the same as trying to identify the contents of a building using only X-rays.

No matter what causes earthquakes, they undeniably do create tremors that can travel to other parts of the world, in the form of waves. The source of the tremors matters not, only the pattern that they follow, which fits much better with a Round Earth (with a liquid and solid core) than with a Flat Earth. And until you can find some reason why these patterns would occur on a Flat Earth (other than "Something else must be at play, I just have no clue what"), Round Earth wins this round.

Tsk tsk, STP. Our daddies told us not to cite Wikipedia.
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Swiftly Tilting Planet

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2015, 05:23:24 PM »
Quote from: Constellator on September 21, 2015, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Serulian on September 21, 2015, 09:19:06 AM
There are other factors science ignores, such as conditions or substance below that we can not detect that may amplify or diminish seismic waves. Most of this argument ties into the theory of plate tectonics, which I do not agree with. I believe the expanding Earth theory makes more sense in my opinion.

Until we are able to delve deeper underground we can not be certain of the technology. To me that is the same as trying to identify the contents of a building using only X-rays.

No matter what causes earthquakes, they undeniably do create tremors that can travel to other parts of the world, in the form of waves. The source of the tremors matters not, only the pattern that they follow, which fits much better with a Round Earth (with a liquid and solid core) than with a Flat Earth. And until you can find some reason why these patterns would occur on a Flat Earth (other than "Something else must be at play, I just have no clue what"), Round Earth wins this round.

Tsk tsk, STP. Our daddies told us not to cite Wikipedia.

Sorry, but Wikipedia is often an excellent source for science articles.

But okay, I cite the USGS instead. (I know, I know, the USGS is controlled by the Illuminati...)

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/glossary/?termID=170&alpha=S
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Serulian

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2015, 06:15:39 PM »
I still think these readings line up just fine on a Flat Earth map. The waves could be happening at different points with varying intensity and still form a spider web like pattern. We have no idea what is below the Earth where we can not see, and what conditions might case a shadow zone.
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2015, 06:37:10 PM »
Quote from: Serulian on September 21, 2015, 09:19:06 AM
There are other factors science ignores, such as conditions or substance below that we can not detect that may amplify or diminish seismic waves. Most of this argument ties into the theory of plate tectonics, which I do not agree with. I believe the expanding Earth theory makes more sense in my opinion.

How would we get compressional features like folded strata and reverse faults on an expanding earth? Why would Honolulu be getting closer to Okinawa by a dozen cm per year if the Earth is expanding? Shouldn't they be getting further apart, or at least maintaining separation?

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Until we are able to delve deeper underground we can not be certain of the technology. To me that is the same as trying to identify the contents of a building using only X-rays.

The contents of luggage taken aboard airliners are routinely inspected using only X-rays. They're also used to identify (or rule out) broken bones and dental problems. They're really quite effective for a lot of non-invasive diagnostics while being simple and relatively cheap. But investigation of the internal structure of the Earth using seismic waves is more akin to tomography - that's the 'T' in "CAT scan", and CAT scans are better than X-rays for a lot of diagnoses.
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2015, 06:55:18 PM »
Quote from: Serulian on September 21, 2015, 06:15:39 PM
I still think these readings line up just fine on a Flat Earth map.

Do they? Since there isn't an accepted "flat-earth map" even among the flat-earth community, how could this be? Can we see the reasoning, including diagrams, behind your belief? Even more important, can we see the flat-earth map this lines up on?

Quote
The waves could be happening at different points with varying intensity and still form a spider web like pattern.

"Could be happening", "spider web like pattern". What does this even mean? This looks just like nothing more than handwaving.

Quote
We have no idea what is below the Earth where we can not see, and what conditions might case a shadow zone.

Yes, we do. See STP's embedded (and linked, if you don't like Wikipedia) illustrations.

Let's see your flat-earth explanation for the p-wave shadow. It'll also need to match the observed S-wave shadow and explain why that happens the way it does. If it reveals a workable flat-earth map as a byproduct, then we're really making progress.

So show us why you think this "lines up just fine on a flat-earth map". Have you actually studied this, or were you just making empty claims? Again.
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Charming Anarchist

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2015, 10:50:39 AM »
Quote from: Constellator on September 20, 2015, 07:00:32 PM
Quote from: Charming Anarchist on September 20, 2015, 05:34:41 PM
Quote from: Constellator on September 18, 2015, 08:36:04 PM
but not in places where it would be obstructed by the Earth's core on a Round Earth?
Citation? 
It's called a seismic shadow zone. A quick Google search should get you plenty of sources. It's widespread knowledge. Seismic waves are also reflected, diffracted, and refracted by the Earth's core.
I am not asking for a cartoon.  I can get those for free every Saturday morning. 

I am asking you for evidence. 

Provide your sentient reader an example of a real earthquake/tremor that happened ---- location and time, please.  Then, provide evidence of that exact earthquake/tremor being detected EVERYWHERE ON EARTH as "predicted" by the popular Hollyweird model.  Finally, provide evidence that earthquake/tremors were NEVER detected within your Hollyweird/Shadow zones as predicted by your fantasy model. 

« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 10:53:09 AM by Charming Anarchist »
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Swiftly Tilting Planet

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2015, 01:03:45 PM »
Quote from: Charming Anarchist on September 22, 2015, 10:50:39 AM
Quote from: Constellator on September 20, 2015, 07:00:32 PM
Quote from: Charming Anarchist on September 20, 2015, 05:34:41 PM
Quote from: Constellator on September 18, 2015, 08:36:04 PM
but not in places where it would be obstructed by the Earth's core on a Round Earth?
Citation? 
It's called a seismic shadow zone. A quick Google search should get you plenty of sources. It's widespread knowledge. Seismic waves are also reflected, diffracted, and refracted by the Earth's core.
I am not asking for a cartoon.  I can get those for free every Saturday morning. 

I am asking you for evidence. 

Provide your sentient reader an example of a real earthquake/tremor that happened ---- location and time, please.  Then, provide evidence of that exact earthquake/tremor being detected EVERYWHERE ON EARTH as "predicted" by the popular Hollyweird model.  Finally, provide evidence that earthquake/tremors were NEVER detected within your Hollyweird/Shadow zones as predicted by your fantasy model.

It's not the Hollywood model. It's the standard model used by all geologists and seismologists. Every time there is a major earthquake, the model is used to better pinpoint the epicenter. This is the standard model taught in basic college geology and planetary science classes. This is information that you can learn in any geology textbook or popular science book written for laymen, and most any Natural History museum or science museum or even kid's science museum with a section on Earth Sciences will have an exhibit were you can learn about this. The Sonora Desert Museum here in Tucson has such an exhibit. The only reason that you know nothing about it, it because you have chosen to remain willfully ignorant of basic scientific fact, facts that any high-school kid learns about. If you choose not to learn about it yourself before dismissing it, that is your own problem.
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Charming Anarchist

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2015, 04:14:36 PM »
Quote from: Swiftly Tilting Planet on September 22, 2015, 01:03:45 PM
It's not the Hollywood model. It's the standard model used by all geologists and seismologists. Every time there is a major earthquake, the model is used to better pinpoint the epicenter.
Fine.  I am asking you for evidence. 

Can you provide a citation with even the pretense of recorded data?? 
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Testify

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2015, 04:19:42 AM »
Hell is what exists beneath the Earth, the darkness (Matthew 8:12) outside of God's light. The Sun does not reach there, and the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14) burns beneath the Earth. Our sinful nature pulls us to it always, but God gives us a chance. Accept His son and you shall be saved.
Earthquakes are vibrations caused by the tortures of Hell, and the demons therein. They make the pillars of the Earth tremble in their war with God. So-called predictions made by mortals come from what demons whisper, to make us doubt God.
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Isaiah 40:22: "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in"
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XaeXae

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2015, 04:56:29 AM »
Quote from: Charming Anarchist on September 22, 2015, 04:14:36 PM
Quote from: Swiftly Tilting Planet on September 22, 2015, 01:03:45 PM
It's not the Hollywood model. It's the standard model used by all geologists and seismologists. Every time there is a major earthquake, the model is used to better pinpoint the epicenter.
Fine.  I am asking you for evidence. 

Can you provide a citation with even the pretense of recorded data??

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/EarthSci/people/lidunka/GEOL2014/Revised%20Course/Detailed%20Lecture%20Notes/LECTURE7.PDF ;)
http://eqinfo.ucsd.edu/faq/shadow_zone.php :D
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 05:00:09 AM by XaeXae »
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Jadyyn

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2015, 10:49:42 AM »
My 2 cents ... to increase discussion ...

His stuff fits better (" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">)
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Dog

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Re: Earthquake tremors and the Earth's core
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2015, 05:05:10 PM »
Quote from: Charming Anarchist on September 22, 2015, 04:14:36 PM
Quote from: Swiftly Tilting Planet on September 22, 2015, 01:03:45 PM
It's not the Hollywood model. It's the standard model used by all geologists and seismologists. Every time there is a major earthquake, the model is used to better pinpoint the epicenter.
Fine.  I am asking you for evidence. 

Can you provide a citation with even the pretense of recorded data??

1. Click the wikipedia link they provided
2. Scroll down to the citations
3. ???
4. You will find multiple references to pieces of academic research supporting the phenomenon.
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