Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth

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Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« on: September 14, 2015, 12:08:05 PM »
Hello, I am a new member to this page. I learned about this community through a youtube channel called Vsauce. I am a man of science but I like to have a critical angulation to every subject.

I have a lot of questions that I am sure we will have a great time debating, but those are due another time. For now I will simply stay with this one:

I think i should first tell you that I am an agnostic, I'm not an atheist. Hope you know what this means.

My question is, since this debate is about the shape of the earth, does your religious values have anything to do with your believes on the earth's shape?

I want everyone to answer, please inform me if this thread belongs in a different cathegory. Happy debate and be nice!
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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sircool

  • 426
  • flat, round, whatever throats your goat
Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2015, 12:47:01 PM »
I am an atheist, I relate to science and I love nature and the universe. To say that atheism is a religion is just as absurd as to say thet german is a good mathematical theorem. for sake of the discussion we will consider atheism to be a "religius" point of view, which is that earth is a sphere, there is no doubt in science. My reasoning is to look at both models RE and FE, and examine which model requires less assumptions.
If it's flat, that would be very interesting for science

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2015, 04:52:19 PM »

Does your username come from the German name for ball lightening, "kugleblitz"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz_%28astrophysics%29

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2015, 05:18:26 PM »
I'm a scientologist, but that has nothing to do with my beliefs on the Earth's shape: that's something I consider simply with logic and science. Currently I'm developing a hypothesis to confirm or deny the theory.
My religious beliefs and Earth-shape beliefs aren't necessarily completely independent, in that I arrive at both with scientific inquiry and consideration, but neither one caused or inspired the other.

I believe the Earth is flat. However, a lot of people with my views do seem to have a particularly religious basis for saying so.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2015, 06:00:19 PM »
Well I believe in God. I place no faith in the spherical world of the zombie.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don'tů:

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2015, 06:10:49 PM »
You can come at me with all your lies & all your greed .You can come at me with knifes guns & misery.
And you can tell me that I'm am not a living Man ,but you will never take my pride my soul or my land.
For I will never back down never back  down, l will never back down.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don'tů:

Religion???
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2015, 06:12:22 PM »
I want everyone to answer,
Yeah....... right.  Okee dokee.  I get it. 

Folks, 
This OP is obviously a data collection survey and a rorschach test at best. 


---- 


The fact of the matter is that the concept of "religion" is a man-made fiction in and of itself.  The definition of "religion" is non-limiting and purely arbitrary.  There is no objective definition of "religion" that can exclude ANY scientient man. 

A "religion" is any vague set of beliefs --- be they seemingly organized or not --- for which the man in question does not question nor seek to prove to himself.  Believing that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning is a religion. 

Man is by his very nature religious because it is impossible for man to know everything.  By necessity, man must venture out into the unknown to survive.  He must take a gamble while assuming/believing he knows what is unknowable to him.  Minimally, man must assume that the sun will return tomorrow and it is a good assumption ---- he does not need to prove it to be true and frankly, every effort he makes to convince himself of such certainty is wasted effort. 

Democracy is a form of religion. 

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 03:57:43 AM »

Does your username come from the German name for ball lightening, "kugleblitz"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz_%28astrophysics%29

Yes, a kugelblitz is a black hole that is fueled by superheated gas and dust getting swallowed by the black hole. I think it's one of the brightest objects in the known universe.

I want everyone to answer,
Yeah....... right.  Okee dokee.  I get it. 

Folks, 
This OP is obviously a data collection survey and a rorschach test at best. 


---- 


The fact of the matter is that the concept of "religion" is a man-made fiction in and of itself.  The definition of "religion" is non-limiting and purely arbitrary.  There is no objective definition of "religion" that can exclude ANY scientient man. 

A "religion" is any vague set of beliefs --- be they seemingly organized or not --- for which the man in question does not question nor seek to prove to himself.  Believing that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning is a religion. 

Man is by his very nature religious because it is impossible for man to know everything.  By necessity, man must venture out into the unknown to survive.  He must take a gamble while assuming/believing he knows what is unknowable to him.  Minimally, man must assume that the sun will return tomorrow and it is a good assumption ---- he does not need to prove it to be true and frankly, every effort he makes to convince himself of such certainty is wasted effort. 

Democracy is a form of religion. 

I'm not that familiar with the terms you are using. I am looking to get insigth on the subject of science and religion. I am sorry you do not have to answer if you do not want to, of course.

I must say I disagree with you on what religion is. In my opinion, many people need superstitious believes, and many people do not. Personally I do not need religion in my life, I think that moral and ethical values are programmed in our brain by millions of years of selective evolution to benefit individuals with morality for friendship and teamwork to survive. Because for me religion is a guide in life choices generally. And I am perfectly fine with not knowing everything, I am sure mankind never will know everything either. It is the search for knowledge that is my purpose, and not settling for simplified explanations. Example: if the bible said the earth was 6000 years old, I would not beileve it for fact. I think we know more now than we did 2000 years ago.
I do not think democracy is a religion, it is an ideology and form of government.
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 04:33:03 AM »
Well I believe in God. I place no faith in the spherical world of the zombie.

But is god less fictional than zombies?
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

*

sircool

  • 426
  • flat, round, whatever throats your goat
Re: Religion???
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 10:28:45 AM »
Believing that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning is a religion.

Nope, but we can study the horizon every morning. Conclusion: it will most probably rise again tomorrow.
If it's flat, that would be very interesting for science

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 10:35:00 AM »
I am looking to get insigth on the subject of science and religion. I am sorry you do not have to answer if you do not want to, of course.

I must say I disagree with you on what religion is.
Then stop trawling and define your terms. 

I bet you can not define the word "religion" in any intelligent non-circular manner. 

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 10:55:44 AM »
Far be it from me to offer any content whatsoever, but I think Charming Anarchist should go fuck himself, and Kogelblitz should probably join him because flouncing in and announcing in your first fucking post "Hey guys, I'm an atheist!" just makes you look like the most arrogant little penguin that are the scum of any movement, from atheism to theism alike.

Also, FEScientist, if you're a scientologist, you can go fuck yourself too.

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 02:10:32 PM »
Bitter you are, small penis perhaps?

Read you must, before answer you do.
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 04:36:17 PM »

I was a fundamentalist Christian until I was 18, when both my political and my scientific beliefs just made it harder and harder to believe in my religion. Of course, I'm probably the poster child for some of the paranoid Flat Earthers who believe that science is all a conspiracy to make us all atheists.

And I don't believe that the Earth is round.

Because belief is based on faith, but *facts* tell us that the Earth is round. Hell, I am an Army Brattleboro and I've been up in airplanes and *seen* the curve of the Earth for myself.

I have noticed from watching a lot of Flat Earth videos on Youtube that a lot of Flat Earthers - not all, but a lot - seem to be fundamentalist Biblical ultra-literalists nd Young Earth Creationists who base their belief in a Flat Earth on their ultra-literal interpretation of the Bible.FEEL actually seems to be the end point of a journey that starts with Intelligent Design, then proceeds to Young Earth Creationism, then proceeds to deny the Copernican Principle and embrace Geocentrism, then finally ends up in a belief that the Earth itself is flat. It's acrually pretty much an exact reverse of the progression of modern Western scientific thought - running down the path backwards and ending up exactly where science started, all those centuries and millennia ago.

Which is why it's such a great irony that so many Flat Earth science denialists use the internet, the very product of all of those centuries of scientific thought and progress, to deny the very thing that gave them the platform that they are using for that denial.

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Serulian

  • 142
  • Flat Earthian
Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 04:47:49 PM »
I have seen a great deal of Flat Earth theory which seems to be based loosely on biblical interpretations and traditions. My own views are not.

I believe there is or at least was a Creator for the simple reason that everything comes from something. A big bang looks fine on paper, but where did the stuff come from before the bang? It stands to reason that the Creator might also have had a Creator, and that the Creator who made our universe may have made another though he may be dead now.

I am not sure if the Creator had a hand in shaping our Earth.   

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2015, 08:44:05 PM »
You can come at me with all your lies & all your greed .You can come at me with knifes guns & misery.
And you can tell me that I'm am not a living Man ,but you will never take my pride my soul or my land.
For I will never back down never back  down, l will never back down.

Good for you.  You're still wrong.

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2015, 09:08:36 PM »
You can come at me with all your lies & all your greed .You can come at me with knifes guns & misery.
And you can tell me that I'm am not a living Man ,but you will never take my pride my soul or my land.
For I will never back down never back  down, l will never back down.

"Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand,
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me!
Take me out, to the black, tell 'em I ain't comin' back.
Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me!"

Sorry, just felt the need to sing The Ballad of Serenity after that rising speech by charles.

Oh wait, you people think that the sky is a hologram...or something...

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2015, 04:37:38 AM »
I am looking to get insigth on the subject of science and religion. I am sorry you do not have to answer if you do not want to, of course.

I must say I disagree with you on what religion is.
Then stop trawling and define your terms. 

I bet you can not define the word "religion" in any intelligent non-circular manner.

There is by definition no single definition on religion.
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

*

sircool

  • 426
  • flat, round, whatever throats your goat
Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2015, 07:31:44 AM »
I am looking to get insigth on the subject of science and religion. I am sorry you do not have to answer if you do not want to, of course.

I must say I disagree with you on what religion is.
Then stop trawling and define your terms. 

I bet you can not define the word "religion" in any intelligent non-circular manner.

There is by definition no single definition on religion.

There is no such thing as religion, its a fictional concept developed by the human brain to indemnify cruel actions.
If it's flat, that would be very interesting for science

Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2015, 10:39:18 AM »
Which is why it's such a great irony that so many Flat Earth science denialists use the internet, the very product of all of those centuries of scientific thought and progress, to deny the very thing that gave them the platform that they are using for that denial.
Irony?  Your premise is foolish. 
Just because you see1 person inventing something, you believe there is a force of nature that physically stops every other man, present and future, from being able to invent that same thing. 

A "scientist" told me that if you get an infinite number of monkeys hacking away at an infinite number of type-writers eventually 1 of them will churn out the complete works of Shakespeare. 

One of my "science" teachers told me that the calculus games devised by Newton were also devised independently by Leibniz only a few years later. 

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sircool

  • 426
  • flat, round, whatever throats your goat
Re: Critical Thinking and Religion on a Flat Earth
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2015, 10:53:14 AM »
Which is why it's such a great irony that so many Flat Earth science denialists use the internet, the very product of all of those centuries of scientific thought and progress, to deny the very thing that gave them the platform that they are using for that denial.
Irony?  Your premise is foolish. 
Just because you see1 person inventing something, you believe there is a force of nature that physically stops every other man, present and future, from being able to invent that same thing. 


A "scientist" told me that if you get an infinite number of monkeys hacking away at an infinite number of type-writers eventually 1 of them will churn out the complete works of Shakespeare. 

One of my "science" teachers told me that the calculus games devised by Newton were also devised independently by Leibniz only a few years later. 

Interesting, a christian munk actually erased some of archimedes work to write some religious bullcrap. In later examination what was erased seems to have layed out the basics of calculus a 2000 years before newton. Imagine where we would be technologicaly whitout this munk.

Also there is something called the infinite monkey paradox, when random events happen over a very very long time, everything that can happen will happen, can also be thought of as murphys law.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 11:10:47 AM by sircool »
If it's flat, that would be very interesting for science