Designing a Flat Earth Map

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Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2015, 11:29:25 AM »
Verbosity is no replacement for the scientific method.
That is why I explained the method using 'verbosity'. It is very hard to explain something without using words.
I am testing the FE hypothesis: what must be true in order for it to hold? What is wrong with that?
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

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Master_Evar

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Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2015, 12:45:17 PM »
Verbosity is no replacement for the scientific method.
That is why I explained the method using 'verbosity'. It is very hard to explain something without using words.
I am testing the FE hypothesis: what must be true in order for it to hold? What is wrong with that?

What is wrong is that you assume that everything that would disprove your theory is caused by and unknown phenomenon. This creates and endless loop where everything that disproves the theory gets explained by another theory, which either can't be proved or leads to a new theory to make that one work and so on.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2015, 01:02:24 PM »
What is wrong is that you assume that everything that would disprove your theory is caused by and unknown phenomenon. This creates and endless loop where everything that disproves the theory gets explained by another theory, which either can't be proved or leads to a new theory to make that one work and so on.
I do not use explanations that cannot be proved. I do not seek out proofs immediately because they may be inconsistent with what is required to make the rest of the model work (in which case I will reject it) or may be flawed in a way I did not notice, in which case I will also reject it (as I have done). This does not mean they cannot be tested.
The idea is to gauge what is required for an FE model. If I end up with a mess of proposed explanations with no evidence, it is still reasonable so long as I test and confirm each before declaring the model as any more than a hypothesis. I'm not interested in infinite regresses or unfalsifiable hypotheses.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

?

Master_Evar

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Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2015, 01:50:39 PM »
What is wrong is that you assume that everything that would disprove your theory is caused by and unknown phenomenon. This creates and endless loop where everything that disproves the theory gets explained by another theory, which either can't be proved or leads to a new theory to make that one work and so on.
I do not use explanations that cannot be proved. I do not seek out proofs immediately because they may be inconsistent with what is required to make the rest of the model work (in which case I will reject it) or may be flawed in a way I did not notice, in which case I will also reject it (as I have done). This does not mean they cannot be tested.
The idea is to gauge what is required for an FE model. If I end up with a mess of proposed explanations with no evidence, it is still reasonable so long as I test and confirm each before declaring the model as any more than a hypothesis. I'm not interested in infinite regresses or unfalsifiable hypotheses.

But your hypothesis is pretty much built on yet-to-be-proven theories. Before you make your hypothesis you should check if your theories are actually viable and able to be scientifically proven. You are basing guesses on more guesses. First, you should make proper theories about major phenomenons that are detected, and how they would work on a flat earth, and if it can be scientifically proven to work that way. When you have a few of these hypothesis you should join them together to form a model. Make new theories as necessary. Base new theories on observations and make hypothesis for how they work. Experiment to see if your theory works. Add to the flat earth model. That's how you should work.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2015, 02:21:23 AM »
* Ask a Question.
* Do Background Research.
* Construct a Hypothesis.
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment.
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion.
* Communicate Your Results.
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2015, 02:31:52 AM »
* Ask a Question.
* Do Background Research.
* Construct a Hypothesis.
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment.
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion.
* Communicate Your Results.

He is *kinda* asking

What would happen if the earth was flat?
and is now doing research.

which is a more constructive way of going forward.

But he has stated that he is starting with a hypothesis, but I have no idea what his hypothesis is based on.
Cart before the Horse
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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Master_Evar

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Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2015, 02:39:32 AM »
* Ask a Question.
* Do Background Research.
* Construct a Hypothesis.
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment.
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion.
* Communicate Your Results.

He is *kinda* asking

What would happen if the earth was flat?
and is now doing research.

which is a more constructive way of going forward.

But he has stated that he is starting with a hypothesis, but I have no idea what his hypothesis is based on.
Cart before the Horse

She is basing her hypothesis on other hypothesis which are based on the original hypothesis. For earth to be round x has to be true, and if earth is true then x has to be true.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2015, 03:52:12 AM »
Quote from: Evar
But your hypothesis is pretty much built on yet-to-be-proven theories. Before you make your hypothesis you should check if your theories are actually viable and able to be scientifically proven. You are basing guesses on more guesses. First, you should make proper theories about major phenomenons that are detected, and how they would work on a flat earth, and if it can be scientifically proven to work that way. When you have a few of these hypothesis you should join them together to form a model. Make new theories as necessary. Base new theories on observations and make hypothesis for how they work. Experiment to see if your theory works. Add to the flat earth model. That's how you should work.
That's only a useful practise in small-scale experiments. When it comes to testing and validating an entire model, it's very hard to predict what we should observe without knowing what else to take into account. There's going to be overlap in effects: for example, take the RE model of gravity. It doesn't work on a large scale: should that knowledge be used to reject the model, or is there another aspect of the model (dark matter) which exists to provide an answer?

Quote from: Jimmy
* Ask a Question.
Is the Earth flat?
Quote
* Do Background Research.
If the Earth is flat, then what would govern these observations that we can find?
Quote
* Construct a Hypothesis.
The complete model, if/when it is done.
Quote
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment.
To be performed.

Quote
But he has stated that he is starting with a hypothesis, but I have no idea what his hypothesis is based on.
Cart before the Horse
Starting with constructing a hypothesis. I would be interested to know what science you are aware of that has an earlier step.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

?

Master_Evar

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Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2015, 04:02:28 AM »
Quote from: Evar
But your hypothesis is pretty much built on yet-to-be-proven theories. Before you make your hypothesis you should check if your theories are actually viable and able to be scientifically proven. You are basing guesses on more guesses. First, you should make proper theories about major phenomenons that are detected, and how they would work on a flat earth, and if it can be scientifically proven to work that way. When you have a few of these hypothesis you should join them together to form a model. Make new theories as necessary. Base new theories on observations and make hypothesis for how they work. Experiment to see if your theory works. Add to the flat earth model. That's how you should work.
That's only a useful practise in small-scale experiments. When it comes to testing and validating an entire model, it's very hard to predict what we should observe without knowing what else to take into account. There's going to be overlap in effects: for example, take the RE model of gravity. It doesn't work on a large scale: should that knowledge be used to reject the model, or is there another aspect of the model (dark matter) which exists to provide an answer?
Gravity works on a large scale. But some large scale objects require some research into how gravity affects them. That's two different things. And what I said is more useful on a large model than a small one. Because there are so many factors to consider you have to first do research on all these factors and check their connections before you can put them together into a model. Otherwise you'd have to redo the model every time you found a new connection or have to change a hypothesis.

Quote from: Jimmy
* Ask a Question.
Is the Earth flat?
Sure

Quote
* Do Background Research.
If the Earth is flat, then what would govern these observations that we can find?
That's not research. That's another question.

Quote
* Construct a Hypothesis.
The complete model, if/when it is done.
Sure

Quote
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment.
To be performed.
Sure

What you lack is background research, i.e. observations and supported models and theories. That's why we call your work pseudoscience, it doesn't have any connections with reality.

Quote
But he has stated that he is starting with a hypothesis, but I have no idea what his hypothesis is based on.
Cart before the Horse
Starting with constructing a hypothesis. I would be interested to know what science you are aware of that has an earlier step.
[/quote]
Making observations. Hypothesis's are made to explain an observation we make in reality.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2015, 04:41:55 AM »

Quote from: Jimmy
* Ask a Question.
Is the Earth flat?


Wouldn't a better question to start off with be, "What shape is the Earth?"
I'm no rocket scientist, but at least I know the Earth is round, Man went to the Moon, and air exists.

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Carl Sagan

*

MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Designing a Flat Earth Map
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2015, 04:44:43 AM »
You need to start with your known facts before you can have a hypothesis.
What do you know for sure? If you cant pin that down then no hypothesis can carry any weight, its all fun and games guess work.
The problem with a FE hypothesis is you have to question so many known facts that you are down to questioning if anything is real.

Are the following real?
Geometry
Straight lines
Time/ the measure of time
Distance
Reality
Other humans
ext.
ext.
ext.

If you accept these as real your hypothesis will have to account for them.
You could save yourself lot of time by posing simpler questions such as.

               What geometric shape/s would allow for the known distances between airports on earth?

Then you can follow with different hypothesis of possible shapes.
From that derive experiments and tests to eliminate and confirm some hypothesis over others.

What facts are your hypothesis based off of?
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat