"There is no sunset"

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"There is no sunset"
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2015, 01:48:44 PM »
So what does my sun do to appear to set?

It's quite simple. It's a reflection and that reflection moves over the dome into the distance from  me and is reflected off that dome as the dome slowly curves down.
By that time the reflective sun is being obscured by the thick atmosphere over distance as well as moving down that dome, which you see as disappearing light at the bottom and bright half light to quarter light sinking into that.
Thank you for that concise explanation!  It ties up a lot of loose ends. 




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mikeman7918

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2015, 03:37:19 PM »
So what does my sun do to appear to set?

It's quite simple. It's a reflection and that reflection moves over the dome into the distance from  me and is reflected off that dome as the dome slowly curves down.
By that time the reflective sun is being obscured by the thick atmosphere over distance as well as moving down that dome, which you see as disappearing light at the bottom and bright half light to quarter light sinking into that.
Thank you for that concise explanation!  It ties up a lot of loose ends. 




Note to trolls, shills and liars: 
Thank you for making this thread so active.  I would have otherwise not noticed it!  Thank you!! Keep up the good work!

How does that explain time zones?  You can't deny that they exist, especially on a multinational forum.
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LuggerSailor

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2015, 03:49:20 PM »
It's quite simple. It's a reflection and that reflection moves over the dome into the distance from  me and is reflected off that dome as the dome slowly curves down.
By that time the reflective sun is being obscured by the thick atmosphere over distance as well as moving down that dome, which you see as disappearing light at the bottom and bright half light to quarter light sinking into that.


There's still no setting sun though. A setting sun is the wrong term.
I think I'll make up a new term because we need more reality.
So either the hot glowing thing which is reflected is moving or the dome is moving because I haven't moved and yet the thing I see in the sky has dropped down and below the western horizon.
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sceptimatic

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2015, 04:10:57 PM »
It's quite simple. It's a reflection and that reflection moves over the dome into the distance from  me and is reflected off that dome as the dome slowly curves down.
By that time the reflective sun is being obscured by the thick atmosphere over distance as well as moving down that dome, which you see as disappearing light at the bottom and bright half light to quarter light sinking into that.


There's still no setting sun though. A setting sun is the wrong term.
I think I'll make up a new term because we need more reality.
So either the hot glowing thing which is reflected is moving or the dome is moving because I haven't moved and yet the thing I see in the sky has dropped down and below the western horizon.
The reflection is moving.

Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2015, 05:14:41 PM »
The reflection is moving.
Thank you again.  I am convinced more and more that both the sun and the moon are as you describe.  The physics of light through parabolic reflection. 

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Bubble Glass Crystal
As the balls rotate, we clearly see the optical illusion whereby bubbles appear to rise and fall through rotation.  We are witnessing the same principles but from the inside out. 

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chtwrone

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2015, 07:57:24 PM »
The reflection is moving.
Thank you again.  I am convinced more and more that both the sun and the moon are as you describe.  The physics of light through parabolic reflection. 

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Bubble Glass Crystal
As the balls rotate, we clearly see the optical illusion whereby bubbles appear to rise and fall through rotation.  We are witnessing the same principles but from the inside out.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the sun is 93 million miles (on average) from the earth, therefore your flat earth theories are just pure fantasy - FACT.

If the sun does actually exist as you describe it, why do we never see both the sun AND its reflection at the same time? 
What is stopping this from happening?
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Son of Orospu

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2015, 08:01:11 PM »
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the sun is 93 million miles (on average) from the earth, therefore your flat earth theories are just pure fantasy - FACT.

When did you measure this distance in order to be so certain of it? 

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chtwrone

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2015, 08:11:34 PM »
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the sun is 93 million miles (on average) from the earth, therefore your flat earth theories are just pure fantasy - FACT.

When did you measure this distance in order to be so certain of it?
I did not measure the distance of the sun myself, but scientists (not evil Satanist NASA scientists) from countless scientific organisations around the world have conducted a thorough investigation of the sun and the distance of 93 million miles (average) has NEVER been disputed, excect by flat earth fantasists of course.

What is the distance of the flat earth sun from the earth's surface?  How was this distance arrived at?  Name one reputable expert who disputes the figure of 93 million miles, and agrees with the flat earth distance?
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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2015, 08:57:09 PM »
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the sun is 93 million miles (on average) from the earth, therefore your flat earth theories are just pure fantasy - FACT.
Irrelevent. 
We are not debating whether the dome is 93 bazillion miles (whatever) above the earth.  Mind you, it could possibly be that big but so what??? 

If the sun does actually exist as you describe it, why do we never see both the sun AND its reflection at the same time? 
---- because images in the mirror are closer than they appear. 

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Son of Orospu

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2015, 09:15:31 PM »
What is the distance of the flat earth sun from the earth's surface?  How was this distance arrived at?  Name one reputable expert who disputes the figure of 93 million miles, and agrees with the flat earth distance?

The sun has been mathematically calculated to be 3000 miles about the Earth's surface.   

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Flopsinator

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2015, 09:46:07 PM »
What is the distance of the flat earth sun from the earth's surface?  How was this distance arrived at?  Name one reputable expert who disputes the figure of 93 million miles, and agrees with the flat earth distance?

The sun has been mathematically calculated to be 3000 miles about the Earth's surface.

And how did YOU calculate that?
Just by looking at it and saying "Yes, that's 3000 miles"?

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chtwrone

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2015, 10:08:38 PM »
What is the distance of the flat earth sun from the earth's surface?  How was this distance arrived at?  Name one reputable expert who disputes the figure of 93 million miles, and agrees with the flat earth distance?

The sun has been mathematically calculated to be 3000 miles about the Earth's surface.

Yes jroa, the distance of 3000 miles was arrived at mathematically, but the figures used in this flat earth equation are wrong, therefore the answer to the equation is wrong. This figure of 3000 miles has been thoroughly debunked in other threads.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2015, 10:13:43 PM »
What is the distance of the flat earth sun from the earth's surface?  How was this distance arrived at?  Name one reputable expert who disputes the figure of 93 million miles, and agrees with the flat earth distance?

The sun has been mathematically calculated to be 3000 miles about the Earth's surface.

And how did YOU calculate that?
Just by looking at it and saying "Yes, that's 3000 miles"?

No, It was calculated by Wilbur Glenn Voliva and even published in a magazine.  You can even do the math for yourself...you do know how to do math, right?


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Rayzor

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2015, 10:57:08 PM »
You can't  use the Eratosthenes method to determine the distance to the sun,  or the diameter of the earth,    there are two equally valid solutions. 

You need another method to determine the distance to the sun,   this has been done many times over the centuries,  the transit of  Venus in 1769,  was a big deal in the scientific community, and led to expeditions all over the world, to observe the transit from different locations,   Captain Cook's discovery of Australia was one such expedition.

Once you have an independent measure of the distance to the sun,  then Eratosthenes method can be used to measure the diameter of the earth.
 
This is a good video, 

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">! No longer available


« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 11:00:16 PM by Rayzor »
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Pezevenk

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2015, 02:27:25 AM »
Just a quick thing before jroa says that the transit of Venus is fake, I have personally witnessed it myself from my home, using binoculars and a solar filter.
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geodetective

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2015, 02:50:35 AM »
Just one thing first. It would be easier to read the discussion if everyone would start with "I'm an FE-er" or "I'm an RE-er". And I'm an RE-er...

Interesting discussion... I read part of the thread, and actually I like the sentence "There is no sunset". This is true in the same sence as that the coriolis effect is not a real force. Or even a centrifugal force is technically not a real force. It all has to do with relativity and perspective.

Yes, we see the sunset everyday, but this quote of sceptimatic is actually correct:
So basically there is no sun SET. It's merely (by your indoctrinated universe and Earth/sun) your Earth spinning around a central sun.
It's called a sun set and sun rise which implies that the SUN is doing the work and yet we are to believe that the Earth is doing it all.

...

There's still no setting sun though. A setting sun is the wrong term.
I think I'll make up a new term because we need more reality.

Interestingly, a lot of people make another wrong claim by trying to fix this issue. They say "the sun looks like it sets because the earth is spinning around the sun". That is wrong. The earth spinning around the sun results in summer/winter cycles. It is the earth spinning around it's own axis, which makes the sun look to set and to rise. And we see that, because we are on the earth. But the sun stands still in the solar system (Even though it spins around the center of the Milky Way, but let's ignore that as it is confusing and not relevant). So the sun doesn't do anything in the rising and setting issue...

The correct term in stead of sunrise would be "we are turning towards the sun", and the correct term of sunset would be "we are turning away from the sun".


Another issue that is brought up here: 

The sun has been mathematically calculated to be 3000 miles about the Earth's surface.

And how did YOU calculate that?
Just by looking at it and saying "Yes, that's 3000 miles"?

No, It was calculated by Wilbur Glenn Voliva and even published in a magazine.  You can even do the math for yourself...you do know how to do math, right?


This works only for 2 points. Let's assume a flat earth, and the sun is at 3000 miles directly above you. The horizontal distance is then 0 miles, and the vertical distance is then 3000 miles. You can use this site to calculate the angle. https://www.functions-online.com/atan2.html
It's in radians though... to get degrees, the answer must be dived by pi, and then multiplied by 180 (or multiplied by 57.29577).

So when you fill in y = 3000, and x = 0, you get 90 degrees (= 1.5707963267948966 * 57.29577)
Then you'd move away for 3000 miles. y is still 3000, and then x = 3000 too... You'd get 45 degrees. (= 0.78539816339744828 * 57.29577)

But then a third point. When you walk away ANOTHER 3000 miles, y is still 3000, and x = 6000. Then the angle is about 26.5 degrees...
This does not confirm with observations. The real angle is 0 degrees: the sun is at the horizon. So the sun isn't 3000 miles away, and the earth is not flat.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #76 on: August 31, 2015, 05:39:31 AM »
The correct term in stead of sunrise would be "we are turning towards the sun", and the correct term of sunset would be "we are turning away from the sun".
Which can be shortened to "sunrise" and "sunset".  There is no such thing as "correct term" in this context - words have agreed meanings throughout the population that uses them - in this case everyone in the English speaking world knows what these two words mean.

In any case, even using your flawed logic, the sunrise refers to the period when the sun rises above the horizon and the sunset is when it sets below it.  Makes perfect sense.

Anyway, good luck the next time you'd like to romance a lady and you suggest you both go down to the beach to watch "the period where we are turning away from the sun". :-\
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Pezevenk

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #77 on: August 31, 2015, 05:50:23 AM »
The reflection is moving.
Thank you again.  I am convinced more and more that both the sun and the moon are as you describe.  The physics of light through parabolic reflection. 

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Bubble Glass Crystal
As the balls rotate, we clearly see the optical illusion whereby bubbles appear to rise and fall through rotation.  We are witnessing the same principles but from the inside out.

Do you actually think before you convince yourself that everything sceptimatic says is true? Or are you just a troll?
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #78 on: August 31, 2015, 05:54:57 AM »
He's an obvious troll.
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geodetective

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #79 on: August 31, 2015, 05:56:42 AM »
The correct term in stead of sunrise would be "we are turning towards the sun", and the correct term of sunset would be "we are turning away from the sun".
Which can be shortened to "sunrise" and "sunset".  There is no such thing as "correct term" in this context - words have agreed meanings throughout the population that uses them - in this case everyone in the English speaking world knows what these two words mean.

In any case, even using your flawed logic, the sunrise refers to the period when the sun rises above the horizon and the sunset is when it sets below it.  Makes perfect sense.


Yes, I do agree with that of course. All I tried to do is explain the phenomenon is a matter of perspective. The sun "sets" for us, who are on the earth. For those on a carousel throwing a ball, the coriolis effect is a coriolis force. But it ain't "real" as in "it isn't the sun that is moving".

Quote
Anyway, good luck the next time you'd like to romance a lady and you suggest you both go down to the beach to watch "the period where we are turning away from the sun". :-\
LOL! Yes, it isn't very poetic. My wife gets bored by these things all the time.  :P
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Rayzor

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #80 on: August 31, 2015, 06:22:40 AM »

This works only for 2 points. Let's assume a flat earth, and the sun is at 3000 miles directly above you. The horizontal distance is then 0 miles, and the vertical distance is then 3000 miles. You can use this site to calculate the angle. https://www.functions-online.com/atan2.html
It's in radians though... to get degrees, the answer must be dived by pi, and then multiplied by 180 (or multiplied by 57.29577).

So when you fill in y = 3000, and x = 0, you get 90 degrees (= 1.5707963267948966 * 57.29577)
Then you'd move away for 3000 miles. y is still 3000, and then x = 3000 too... You'd get 45 degrees. (= 0.78539816339744828 * 57.29577)

But then a third point. When you walk away ANOTHER 3000 miles, y is still 3000, and x = 6000. Then the angle is about 26.5 degrees...
This does not confirm with observations. The real angle is 0 degrees: the sun is at the horizon. So the sun isn't 3000 miles away, and the earth is not flat.

Here's another proof, that doesn't require maths  ( for those mathematically challenged flat earth brothers ).

At any time of any day, there is sunrise somewhere on earth and sunset somewhere else on earth.   Doesn't matter what the season is.  At each of these two places ( well actually they are lines around the globe called the terminator if you are interested in names)  the elevation angle to the sun is zero degrees,  the sun is exactly on the horizon in both places.   

Geometrically this is impossible on a flat earth, unless the sun is at ground level.   This is obviously not the case.    The only conclusion is that the earth is a globe, and the sun is 93 million miles away.   

The standard flat earth counter argument to this is going to involve bendy light or some kind of made up aetheric distortion...    whatever,   I think the truth will prevail over pseudo science.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 06:26:14 AM by Rayzor »
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #81 on: August 31, 2015, 07:39:20 AM »
Anyways....I wonder where scepti is with that promised diagram?  He seems to be posting on other threads, so he doesn't seem to be stuck in a ditch, as I feared.

I guess the dog ate his flat earth model.
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Pezevenk

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #82 on: August 31, 2015, 09:55:12 AM »
The correct term in stead of sunrise would be "we are turning towards the sun", and the correct term of sunset would be "we are turning away from the sun".
Which can be shortened to "sunrise" and "sunset".  There is no such thing as "correct term" in this context - words have agreed meanings throughout the population that uses them - in this case everyone in the English speaking world knows what these two words mean.

In any case, even using your flawed logic, the sunrise refers to the period when the sun rises above the horizon and the sunset is when it sets below it.  Makes perfect sense.


Yes, I do agree with that of course. All I tried to do is explain the phenomenon is a matter of perspective. The sun "sets" for us, who are on the earth. For those on a carousel throwing a ball, the coriolis effect is a coriolis force. But it ain't "real" as in "it isn't the sun that is moving".

Quote
Anyway, good luck the next time you'd like to romance a lady and you suggest you both go down to the beach to watch "the period where we are turning away from the sun". :-\
LOL! Yes, it isn't very poetic. My wife gets bored by these things all the time.  :P

Lol I'm trying to picture sceptimatic on a date:

"Come, honey, let's go and watch the reflection that the fireball above the north pole makes on the perfectly reflective ice dome that surrounds our planet move in some magical, pseudoscientific way far from our visibility range!"
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LuggerSailor

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #83 on: August 31, 2015, 02:53:20 PM »
It's quite simple. It's a reflection and that reflection moves over the dome into the distance from  me and is reflected off that dome as the dome slowly curves down.
By that time the reflective sun is being obscured by the thick atmosphere over distance as well as moving down that dome, which you see as disappearing light at the bottom and bright half light to quarter light sinking into that.


There's still no setting sun though. A setting sun is the wrong term.
I think I'll make up a new term because we need more reality.
So either the hot glowing thing which is reflected is moving or the dome is moving because I haven't moved and yet the thing I see in the sky has dropped down and below the western horizon.
The reflection is moving.
Go on, explain how that happens.
The object isn't moving, the reflector isn't moving and the observer isn't moving.
How the hell is the reflection moving?
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Pezevenk

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #84 on: September 01, 2015, 12:51:40 AM »
It's quite simple. It's a reflection and that reflection moves over the dome into the distance from  me and is reflected off that dome as the dome slowly curves down.
By that time the reflective sun is being obscured by the thick atmosphere over distance as well as moving down that dome, which you see as disappearing light at the bottom and bright half light to quarter light sinking into that.


There's still no setting sun though. A setting sun is the wrong term.
I think I'll make up a new term because we need more reality.
So either the hot glowing thing which is reflected is moving or the dome is moving because I haven't moved and yet the thing I see in the sky has dropped down and below the western horizon.
The reflection is moving.
Go on, explain how that happens.
The object isn't moving, the reflector isn't moving and the observer isn't moving.
How the hell is the reflection moving?

Sceptimagic.
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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #85 on: September 01, 2015, 12:10:10 PM »
Try to pick up the coin! 

From the University of Berkley at California Physics department under the heading:  (G)Astronomy and Perception -  G+55: Optical Illusions 

Clam shell mirrors: Floating coin illusion.






Thanks again to all of the shills, liars, trolls and other losers for keeping this thread active!   Keep up the great work!!!  You guys make the world go round!  Without you busy little bees, the truth would never spread so fast!   

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Pezevenk

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #86 on: September 01, 2015, 02:20:08 PM »
Try to pick up the coin! 

From the University of Berkley at California Physics department under the heading:  (G)Astronomy and Perception -  G+55: Optical Illusions 

Clam shell mirrors: Floating coin illusion.

I really don't know what this extremely well known illusion has to do with anything that is being discussed.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 01:45:38 AM by Definitely Not Official »
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BJ1234

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #87 on: September 01, 2015, 08:30:26 PM »
Anyways....I wonder where scepti is with that promised diagram?  He seems to be posting on other threads, so he doesn't seem to be stuck in a ditch, as I feared.

I guess the dog ate his flat earth model.

I would say that it is in the bin, just like the results of his ice lake project, and the model of the plexiglass dome he was almost done building.

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Pezevenk

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #88 on: September 02, 2015, 01:49:55 AM »
Anyways....I wonder where scepti is with that promised diagram?  He seems to be posting on other threads, so he doesn't seem to be stuck in a ditch, as I feared.

I guess the dog ate his flat earth model.

I would say that it is in the bin, just like the results of his ice lake project, and the model of the plexiglass dome he was almost done building.

I'm pretty sure that he hadn't realized that ordinary lasers will scatter ENORMOUSLY over such distance. I'm trying to picture him: "OK, let's use this laser to disprove those RE assholes... Ok, let's see... Oh. Oh wait. OH. Um... Let's just... Uh... Yeah, let's pretend that this never happened...".
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BJ1234

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Re: "There is no sunset"
« Reply #89 on: September 02, 2015, 03:10:22 PM »
Anyways....I wonder where scepti is with that promised diagram?  He seems to be posting on other threads, so he doesn't seem to be stuck in a ditch, as I feared.

I guess the dog ate his flat earth model.

I would say that it is in the bin, just like the results of his ice lake project, and the model of the plexiglass dome he was almost done building.

I'm pretty sure that he hadn't realized that ordinary lasers will scatter ENORMOUSLY over such distance. I'm trying to picture him: "OK, let's use this laser to disprove those RE assholes... Ok, let's see... Oh. Oh wait. OH. Um... Let's just... Uh... Yeah, let's pretend that this never happened...".
Oh no, he claimed to have undeniable proof.  But he would only share it with those who would only promise not to reveal the data and only send it via PM.