Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?

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Tommy4798

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Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« on: June 25, 2015, 10:55:01 PM »
Hi, I'm a new inquirer towards this debate after watching some youtube videos around it.

Can you guys give me a summarizing on what currently each side of the debate currently thinks?

I.E. -

What side is currently 'winning'?

How do FE's compensate for the edge of a FE model?

Which side currently has more unanswered questions? Whats more widely accepted?

And my most curious question:  If the earth is flat, why would anybody want to hide it?  Why fake a spherical model?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 11:55:35 PM »
The FE side has been winning for many years.  The shills are paid to come here to argue with us, but I don't understand why so few of them get fired.  Perhaps the Satanists at NASA are really desperate?  I don't know. 

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Rayzor

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2015, 12:01:30 AM »
The answer as to whether the earth is flat or round depends on who you ask. 

If you ask me,  it's round.   The existence of the horizon is proof.  The distance to the horizon increases as you climb higher.  That's not possible on a flat earth.

If you ask a flat earther,  then it's flat,  but moreover you then have to not only accept that the earth is flat,  but you also have to disavow everything that proves the earth is round,  just off the top of my head that includes.

1.  Pictures from Space must be faked.   
2.  Space travel is impossible.
3.  Satellites don't exist,  that includes GPS and Satellite TV
4.  Gravity doesn't exist.
5.  The Sun is 32 miles in diameter and 3000 miles away.
6. The Moon is either a flat disk,  or a transparent luminous body.
7.  Lunar eclipses are caused by an invisible shadow object.
8.  The south pole doesn't exist.
9.  The South Celestial Pole doesn't exist or is an illusion.

.. and on it goes..   the list is endless...

Oh, and jroa just reminded me, you also have to believe in a global conspiracy to hide all these things,  and anyone who says otherwise is a paid satanic NASA shill,  despite the fact that NASA hasn't paid me for weeks,  if the payroll dept doesn't get their act together I might swap sides..  ;D

« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 12:03:51 AM by Rayzor »
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2015, 12:13:03 AM »
We would love to have you on our side, although the benefits are shit, especially the dental coverage.  However, you would at least get to put those snotty @$$ roundries in their places.  Also, you seem like a semi-inteligent person, and I am sure you would enjoy the challenge of debunking the round Eart myth. 

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Mainframes

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2015, 12:20:08 AM »
Hi, I'm a new inquirer towards this debate after watching some youtube videos around it.

Can you guys give me a summarizing on what currently each side of the debate currently thinks?

I.E. -

What side is currently 'winning'?

How do FE's compensate for the edge of a FE model?

Which side currently has more unanswered questions? Whats more widely accepted?

And my most curious question:  If the earth is flat, why would anybody want to hide it?  Why fake a spherical model?

The answer to which side is winning is categorically the Round Earth, as this is how all navigation, astronomy, space exploration, meteorology, ballistics and many other branches of science and engineering are based.

Flat earth has all its questions unanswered as there is no evidence to back any flat earth assertions,

And to your final question. No-one is hiding the flat earth as it is a ludicrous model that has no basis in reality.
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Tommy4798

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 01:24:30 PM »
If FE's have all these unanswered assertions, why do they continue preaching their believes?

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Tommy4798

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2015, 01:27:12 PM »
Also, why do people like jroa have thousands of posts and continue to follow
this debate if they're certain of one model?

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modestman

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2015, 01:37:33 PM »
Also, why do people like jroa have thousands of posts and continue to follow
this debate if they're certain of one model?
Because we know there are evil people like mikeman and bijane who have interest to hide things, they call it science, they million and biliions and trilions of money to cover up the secret and they have the agenda to control over people, if people discover the earth was flat their entire life will be changed and they have a lot of money and the agenda to hide from us the levelness of earth and the existence of god.

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Rayzor

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2015, 05:34:41 PM »
Also, why do people like jroa have thousands of posts and continue to follow
this debate if they're certain of one model?
Because we know there are evil people like mikeman and bijane who have interest to hide things, they call it science, they million and biliions and trilions of money to cover up the secret and they have the agenda to control over people, if people discover the earth was flat their entire life will be changed and they have a lot of money and the agenda to hide from us the levelness of earth and the existence of god.

God prefers the harmony of the spheres,  he doesn't like edges.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Ski

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2015, 07:21:55 PM »
I'm not sure if you're making a joke or not, but globularism clearly has its roots in the Pythagorean number cult.
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robintex

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2015, 08:23:41 PM »
Since there is no question about the shape of the earth being a globe, there are some of us who wonder if this website is - this isn't just my opinion - but a well known quote."It is either one big joke or one big hoax." I am of the opinion that the moderators and other so-called "flat earthers" just pretend to believe in a flat earth just for the sake of debating flat earth ideas. As listed in one of the previous posts by Rayzor.

Just one more flat earth  item is that the horizon is at an infinite distance and just fades away in the distance instead of being distinct and at a distance that depends on the height of the observer.

"Flat Earthers" can't seem to agree on a "Flat Earth Map Of The World." Some say no map has been made so far. Others claim the earth is the shape of a copy of the well known Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the globe. The center of the earth is the North Pole . The edge of the world is Antarctica, a 150 feet high wall of ice which encircles the earth and keeps the oceans from spilling over the edge.

Also they do not believe in science. All scientists and engineers are evil persons and liars . NASA is composed of satanic persons and liars.

You can form your own opinions not long after being on the forums.

Depends on whether you prefer "round earth" reality or "flat earth" fantasy. This is an interesting website on both points. It is a lot of fun if you don't take  the so-called "flat earth believers" seriously.

I think my signature line pretty well sums up the situation.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 08:41:25 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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Ski

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2015, 09:24:23 PM »
Also they do not believe in science.
This is not true. I love science. Studied it intently when I was younger, and continue to this day. I simply don't believe in bowing at the altar of Orthodoxy.

Quote
All scientists and engineers are evil persons and liars .
Also ridiculous  ::)

Quote
NASA is composed of satanic persons and liars.
Only slightly less ridiculous, though the link between NASA/JPL and the occult is fairly well documented.

"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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robintex

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2015, 09:59:21 PM »
Also they do not believe in science.
This is not true. I love science. Studied it intently when I was younger, and continue to this day. I simply don't believe in bowing at the altar of Orthodoxy.

Quote
All scientists and engineers are evil persons and liars .
Also ridiculous  ::)

Quote
NASA is composed of satanic persons and liars.
Only slightly less ridiculous, though the link between NASA/JPL and the occult is fairly well documented.

Maybe you don't believe this. I hope so.

But maybe I should have said that "some" flat earthers believe in the evil scientists, satanic NASA, etc. I was just mentioning that was what I have heard from "some" flat earthers. "Some" flat earthers seem to think that NASA is to blame for the belief of a round earth. Of course in any group such as The Flat Earth Society there will be those who disagree on many subjects.

I have seen that again - "some" - flat earthers deny that the speed of light or the speed of radio waves is 186,00 miles per second . If this was so in the case of radio waves, radar would not work.

Flat earthers can do all the denying they want, but the undeniable fact is :
The earth is a round globe. It is not some flat disc. Period.

What are your views and opinions on Rayzor's list ?
The horizon ?
The map ?

We would like to hear the flat earth answers from their point of view.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 10:20:45 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2015, 03:39:49 AM »
The FE side has been winning for many years.  The shills are paid to come here to argue with us, but I don't understand why so few of them get fired.  Perhaps the Satanists at NASA are really desperate?  I don't know.
As a Satanist, I can confirm this is true.

What jroa doesn't tell you, is that he works for The Conspiracy as well: his terrible posting and debating skills are here to undermine the flat earth movement - and he's doing a great job.
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Mainframes

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2015, 03:58:23 AM »

I simply don't believe in bowing at the altar of Orthodoxy.


Orthodoxy? You mean what is repeat lay provn to be correct?

Does 2+2=4?
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neutral22

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2015, 04:30:05 AM »
Where flat earth is winning:
If you view far objects at far distances (ie, lighthouses 100 miles away) distances, this seems to point to earth being flat. Round earth counter-argues this with light refraction argument - I don't buy this argument, because light refraction is only caused when light enters a new medium such as from air to water. I do not understand optics/physics/mathematics well enough to represent the round earth side in this debate.

Where round earth is winning:
Astronomical charting of constellations has existed in mainstream since time of 200BC with Ptolemy having mapped 99% of skies, and in 1600 an obscure german astronomer added the few last unrecorded constellations at the southern axis to astronomical map. The astronomical maps of Ptolemy are spherical, where in a flat earth they should be merely a dome shape. Also, a test can be done to time lapse a video to show that the southern hemisphere is spinning around south axis/pole. You can observe far-southern constellations from southern hemisphere, and far-northern constellations from northern hemisphere. It is just that most recent advanced society has existed in northern hemisphere that folklore is centered on the northern hemisphere's constellations - however, if you lived in far-southern hemisphere you would not see them. To present flat earth counter argument to this: they say that you can in fact see north star even from far southern hemisphere. However, we have Rayzor in forum who says this claim is false. We are waiting for flat earther to refute Rayzor, but nobody has stepped up yet to be able to do so. others will bring counter argument that time lapsed videos of south pole are manipulated. There are thousands of such citizens who have made photos such as these, and any ordinary citizen can go to Chile to prove existance of south pole by viewing sky, and proof earth round (at least from astronomic perspective).



also, these are the red herrings:
* we would "fall off" if earth was sphere. Incorrect! you should say, we would would fall off if earth was spinning. however you can construct a model where earth is spinning or stationary! If you say  that you would fall off spinning sphere, then why not also mention that you would fall off a 2 dimensional spinning disc? It seems both sides of debate often cherry pick...
* satellites: also a red herring.. it's plausible that if stuff can hang over in a sphere, that stuff could also hang over on a circle as well.
* moon landing, ISS, etc: also possible plausible in both scenarios.


guilt by association "cointelpro" arguments:
i use this term with sarcasm.. whether deliberately or accidentally, often debaters will play devil's advocate of other side of debate, and attach red herrings or other logical fallicies to opponents side of arguments to "disprove" them, when really they are just discrediting themselves and derailing debate. I have seen round earthers use this tactic by associating creationism (a negative connotation in today's society) to flat earthers while attaching creationism/bigbangism to round earth (a positive connotation, depending on viewpoint).. Or, from flat earth perspective, they often attach red herrings to round earth such as centrifical force, satellites, Nasa stuff, etc..
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 05:44:15 AM by neutral22 »

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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2015, 05:42:45 AM »
in my opinion, the flat earth is winning on zetetic observation,
How so?  All you have to do is observe a sunset and a flat earth is falsified.  Ditto for a sharp horizon.
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neutral22

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2015, 06:10:42 AM »
in my opinion, the flat earth is winning on zetetic observation,
How so?  All you have to do is observe a sunset and a flat earth is falsified.  Ditto for a sharp horizon.

How can it be possible to view long distances such as seeing light house from 100 miles away or seeing opposite shorline 20 miles away? There must exist a great explanation, but nobody has given one yet. Light refraction is the accepted counter-argument, but this seems bad counter-argument to me. Light refraction is only caused when passing into a different medium, ie air to water.

As for sunset, I agree that this points to round earth. The counter-argument flat earthers make about it being trick of perspective is lame.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 06:16:57 AM by neutral22 »

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Misero

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2015, 06:27:04 AM »
It is changing mediums. Space to air.
I am the worst moderator ever.

Sometimes I wonder: "Why am  I on this site?"
Then I look at threads about clouds not existing and I go back to posting and lurking. Lurk moar.

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robintex

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2015, 11:22:57 AM »
The FE side has been winning for many years.  The shills are paid to come here to argue with us, but I don't understand why so few of them get fired.  Perhaps the Satanists at NASA are really desperate?  I don't know.
As a Satanist, I can confirm this is true.

What jroa doesn't tell you, is that he works for The Conspiracy as well: his terrible posting and debating skills are here to undermine the flat earth movement - and he's doing a great job.

Could it be that both Jimmy and jroa are both paid shills ? I agree with Jimmy that jroa is the better one at doing a great job than Jimmy.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

mikeman7918

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2015, 01:46:32 PM »
Flat earthers are forced to ignore mountains of evidence to maintain the illusion that they are winning.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Ski

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 04:27:14 PM »
It is changing mediums. Space to air.

Light is traveling through space and air between lighthouses and observers now?    :-\
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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The Ellimist

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 04:29:55 PM »
If FE's have all these unanswered assertions, why do they continue preaching their believes?
Because most of them are trolling and the others are just nut jobs.
Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

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Misero

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2015, 06:31:23 PM »
I apologize, I misinterpreted the situation.
I am the worst moderator ever.

Sometimes I wonder: "Why am  I on this site?"
Then I look at threads about clouds not existing and I go back to posting and lurking. Lurk moar.

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robintex

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2015, 07:03:26 PM »
If FE's have all these unanswered assertions, why do they continue preaching their believes?
Because most of them are trolling and the others are just nut jobs.

I don't think some of them are nut jobs. I think some of them are quite clever and like to post the most ludicrous ideas just to get a rise from some of us so-called "Round Earthers." Of course there is the possibility they might be nut jobs, but to believe that what they say is what they believe is a bit hard to believe .
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

Dinosaur Neil

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2015, 02:25:15 PM »
If FE's have all these unanswered assertions, why do they continue preaching their believes?
Because most of them are trolling and the others are just nut jobs.

I don't think some of them are nut jobs. I think some of them are quite clever and like to post the most ludicrous ideas just to get a rise from some of us so-called "Round Earthers." Of course there is the possibility they might be nut jobs, but to believe that what they say is what they believe is a bit hard to believe .

The demonstration of an understanding of complex science and mathematics by some of them is good evidence that they are faking the flat earth belief.
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Rayzor

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2015, 07:41:12 PM »
in my opinion, the flat earth is winning on zetetic observation,
How so?  All you have to do is observe a sunset and a flat earth is falsified.  Ditto for a sharp horizon.

How can it be possible to view long distances such as seeing light house from 100 miles away or seeing opposite shorline 20 miles away? There must exist a great explanation, but nobody has given one yet. Light refraction is the accepted counter-argument, but this seems bad counter-argument to me. Light refraction is only caused when passing into a different medium, ie air to water.

As for sunset, I agree that this points to round earth. The counter-argument flat earthers make about it being trick of perspective is lame.

The lighthouse distances make sense if you calculate them properly.    Plus it's worth keeping in mind that a vertical temperature gradient of 0.1 degrees per meter will curve light (refraction) sufficient to follow the earth's curvature,  so long distance tests over water where you are guaranteed to have a temperature gradient over the water will give false results.

From the time of Rowbotham, the flat earth believers quote chapter and verse on the distances to lighthouses, claiming they are visible much further out to sea than what curvature calculations predict.

Here is a plot of lighthouse visibility versus height of the light above sea level,   taking into account standard correction for refraction and a bridge height of 30 ft above the water line.



The formula for calculating distance to the horizon, including refraction correction for standard atmosphere  is  D =  3.86 * sqrt ( h )    h = height in meters,  D = distance in km.


The Planier lighthouse  is   66 meters asl,   and is visible for 43 km,   calculated distance is 43 km,   Flat Earthers claim the calculated value is 29 km
The Jeddah lighthouse      is 113 meters asl,  and is visible for 46 km,   calculated distance is 53 km,   Flat Earthers claim the calculated value is 38 km
The Ile Vierge lighthouse  is   82.5 meters asl,   and is visible for 50 km,   calculated distance is 47 km,   Flat Earthers claim the calculated value is 33 km
The Genoa lighthouse  is 76 meters asl,  and is visible for 46 km,   calculated distance is 45 km,   Flat Earthers claim the calculated value is 31 km

The conclusion is that if you do the calculations properly,  the flat earth argument,  falls flat on its face ( once again )

For details of the formula derivation go to ... 
http://web.archive.org/web/20131717132700/http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/atmos_refr/horizon.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon
Calculation of ducting effects. 
http://web.archive.org/web/20131717125400/http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/atmos_refr/bending.html
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2015, 03:12:48 AM »
If FE's have all these unanswered assertions, why do they continue preaching their believes?

Personally I think this video answers your pondering: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

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Bill_the_Pretender

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2015, 03:36:20 PM »
A flat Earth would not have an atmosphere or a moving horizon.

Checkmate FEers.
I'd be an FE believer, but I'm not stupid. I have Internets.

Proof the Earth is round, not flat: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63853.new#new
Debunking Flat Earth Theory completely: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Whats the current standing on FE / RE and other things?
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2015, 10:54:52 AM »
Why would a flat Earth not have an atmoplane?  Would you please substantiate your claims?