The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars

  • 89 Replies
  • 27486 Views
?

herewegoround

  • 286
  • +0/-0
The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« on: March 04, 2015, 04:19:29 AM »
Imagine an observer in a space with a series of point like objects randomly scattered through it. Now suppose that the points are rotating around an axis that the observer is positioned on, let’s call the observer’s position O. Suppose the position of a given point is P. There will be a line from P to the axis of rotation that is perpendicular to the axis of rotation. Suppose the point that this line meets the axis of rotation at is called A. P moves in a circle with centre A and radius AP. There will be an angle between OA and OP, let’s call it x°; this angle determines how the motion of P is perceived by the observer. If x°= 0°, P would be on the axis of rotation and would not be seen to move by the observer at O. If x°= 180°, P would also be on the axis and wouldn’t appear to move but it would be in the opposite direction. If x° = 90°, P would be seen to move in a giant circle around O. Suppose for x between 0° and 90° P moves in an anti-clockwise circle, then for x between 90° and 180° P will move in a clockwise circle. Imagine you are floating in the middle of a spinning room, if the ceiling is spinning anticlockwise the floor will be spinning clockwise. The points that have x° close to either 0° or 180° will appear to the observer to rotate around a centre of rotation. There will be two different centres of rotation at 0° and 180°.

If the observer only saw points which had x° between 0° and 90° then they would see all the points rotating anti-clockwise and there would only be one visible centre of rotation. This could be the case if say the observer was standing on a disc which obscured the points with x° between 90° and 180° or if there were no points with x° in this range.

If the observer was standing on a large sphere then what they saw would depend on what part of the sphere they were standing on. If they were close to one of the two points on the surface which the axis of rotation passes through (the poles), they would see the points either rotate clockwise or anticlockwise depending on what side of the sphere they were on. They would only see one centre of rotation directly above the pole. If they were close to the plane that the points with x°=90 rotate around (the equator), they would see these points and rise and set. They would also just manage to see the two centres of rotations at 0° and 180°.

The model which most closely fits what we see on Earth is the sphere with the points as stars. The only difference being it’s the Earth that rotates. This is geometrically equivalent although physically distinguishable to the stars rotating. We see circumpolar stars in both the Northern and Southern hemisphere, in the North they rotate anti-clockwise and in the South they rotate clockwise. We see stars near the equator rise and set.

On a flat Earth all the stars would be at an angle of between 0° and 90°. Either because there are no stars below the Earth or there are but we can’t see them. On a flat disc Earth we would not expect to see two sets of circumpolar stars even when we are close the edge of the disc. If there were stars below the Earth, with x° between 90° and 180°, the only way we could see them was if we could visit the other side of the disc. Then we would see the other circumpolar stars. If there were only stars above a flat disc Earth then we would only ever see one centre of rotation. There is no reason at all why we would see stars rise and set near the equator on a flat Earth.


« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 04:39:49 AM by herewegoround »

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2015, 05:26:05 AM »
are you really still beating this dead horse?

move on. change the record.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

herewegoround

  • 286
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2015, 05:32:57 AM »
are you really still beating this dead horse?

move on. change the record.

I wouldn't have to if it wasn't for halfwits like you who need the blindingly obvious explained to them. You were the one who said I hadn't argued the point properly, well now I have. Explain why I am wrong, admit you can't or go fuck yourself. I don't mind which to be perfectly honest.

*

ausGeoff

  • 6091
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2015, 05:36:11 AM »
are you really still beating this dead horse?

LOL... yet another typical "response" from JRoweSkeptic.  No substance; off-topic; veiled insult; unscientific; irrelevant etc.

If you don't mind JRoweSkeptic, why don't you leave it to the flat earthers who actually have the intelligence to address this scenario?  Why waste your time further confirming what we already know—that you're little more than a persistent troll intent on disrupting every thread you infest with your inconsequential drivel.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 05:43:47 AM »
are you really still beating this dead horse?

move on. change the record.

I wouldn't have to if it wasn't for halfwits like you who need the blindingly obvious explained to them. You were the one who said I hadn't argued the point properly, well now I have. Explain why I am wrong, admit you can't or go fuck yourself. I don't mind which to be perfectly honest.

i'm not the one who needs the obvious explained. i have provided a diagram, evidence, and your assertion "There is no reason at all why we would see stars rise and set near the equator on a flat Earth," means nothing. variation in distance from the central pole settles this, and is already expected from how the sun must move to maintain the seasons.

you seem to be struggling with the fact that a disc is a two dimensional object, while a sphere has three. leave the flat earth alone, for a moment. engage in some simple mathematical modelling. take a balloon, inflate to a sphere, mark the paths star take, around a pole at the top, and the bottom. pop the balloon at one pole. flatten it out. guess what? now everything is going around the other pole. simple math.
whether the earth is flat or round, you are going to get the same star paths. are you finished?

geoff, get a life. i explain my views clearly, your inability to provide any basis for your claims renders your posts far more like drivel than mine. just because you're clinging to a round earth fantasy does not mean you get to dismiss everyone else.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

herewegoround

  • 286
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 06:21:08 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic link=topic=62998.msg1666500#msg1666500

i'm not the one who needs the obvious explained. i have provided a diagram, evidence, and your assertion "There is no reason at all why we would see stars rise and set near the equator on a flat Earth," means nothing. variation in distance from the central pole settles this, and is already expected from how the sun must move to maintain the seasons.


Variation in central poles? What the fuck are you talking about? What diagram?

you seem to be struggling with the fact that a disc is a two dimensional object, while a sphere has three. leave the flat earth alone, for a moment. engage in some simple mathematical modelling. take a balloon, inflate to a sphere, mark the paths star take, around a pole at the top, and the bottom. pop the balloon at one pole. flatten it out. guess what? now everything is going around the other pole. simple math.
whether the earth is flat or round, you are going to get the same star paths. are you finished?


What are you trying to say? That the universe is 2 dimensional? This what you do in every discussion you engage in. You say things that don't mean anything. It's because you have nothing to add. I took the time to make a proper argument. If you can't address it, fuck off.

Why don't you admit you are troll and do us all a favour.




*

ausGeoff

  • 6091
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 07:04:48 AM »
I have provided a diagram, evidence...
I'm afraid I must've missed it.  Link please.

Quote
Geoff, get a life. i explain my views clearly, your inability to provide any basis for your claims renders your posts far more like drivel than mine. just because you're clinging to a round earth fantasy does not mean you get to dismiss everyone else.

So... if you claim me and 6,000,000 scientists worldwide are "clinging to a round earth fantasy", can you name me 6 scientists who accept that the earth is allegedly flat?

I'm betting you can't, as I've asked this same question several times to other flat earthers, and they've failed to do so.  Would you like to take up my simple little challenge, or will you too weasel your way out of it?

Now, those six scientists are......?

*

Mikey T.

  • 3546
  • +0/-1
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 07:41:14 AM »
the aether accelerates the world upwards. it parts around the world, and meets above, and as it joins, it becomes a whirlpool. at the center, it is thicker, and so slower: it will be faster the further out you are, explaining speed.

i even have a diagram for how the stars rotate.



if you contract the wall to a point, you can see that the star paths are functionally identical. this is what you asked for.

there is no test of aether (in general. i have personal theories, but they are not relevant) that can be done from earth. this is entirely reasonable: the whirlpool of relevant is not on or near earth. if we could go up that high, it would be obvious, however.
a fact which would falsify this is a star that is able to go against the flow.
if the earth is flat, then something must be accelerating the world upwards. that should be all the evidence you need for something. aether is what we call it.


Here ya go, JROWE's post about how the southern south pole stars work.  Just figured I would help him out a but since he is rather busy listening to the aether tell him how it wants to be whole again.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 08:03:41 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic link=topic=62998.msg1666500#msg1666500

i'm not the one who needs the obvious explained. i have provided a diagram, evidence, and your assertion "There is no reason at all why we would see stars rise and set near the equator on a flat Earth," means nothing. variation in distance from the central pole settles this, and is already expected from how the sun must move to maintain the seasons.


Variation in central poles? What the fuck are you talking about? What diagram?

you seem to be struggling with the fact that a disc is a two dimensional object, while a sphere has three. leave the flat earth alone, for a moment. engage in some simple mathematical modelling. take a balloon, inflate to a sphere, mark the paths star take, around a pole at the top, and the bottom. pop the balloon at one pole. flatten it out. guess what? now everything is going around the other pole. simple math.
whether the earth is flat or round, you are going to get the same star paths. are you finished?


What are you trying to say? That the universe is 2 dimensional? This what you do in every discussion you engage in. You say things that don't mean anything. It's because you have nothing to add. I took the time to make a proper argument. If you can't address it, fuck off.

Why don't you admit you are troll and do us all a favour.

admit you're a troll. there's no other excuse for deliberately ignoring what's obvious.
the stars vary in their distance from the central pole. this explains seasons, and is basic flat earth theory. that's why they seem to cross the equator.
the stars as seen from the earth (which is what we're talking about, unless you're changing the subject), look the same when observed from a flat or round earth.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

herewegoround

  • 286
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 08:18:26 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic link=topic=62998.msg1666500#msg1666500

i'm not the one who needs the obvious explained. i have provided a diagram, evidence, and your assertion "There is no reason at all why we would see stars rise and set near the equator on a flat Earth," means nothing. variation in distance from the central pole settles this, and is already expected from how the sun must move to maintain the seasons.


Variation in central poles? What the fuck are you talking about? What diagram?

you seem to be struggling with the fact that a disc is a two dimensional object, while a sphere has three. leave the flat earth alone, for a moment. engage in some simple mathematical modelling. take a balloon, inflate to a sphere, mark the paths star take, around a pole at the top, and the bottom. pop the balloon at one pole. flatten it out. guess what? now everything is going around the other pole. simple math.
whether the earth is flat or round, you are going to get the same star paths. are you finished?


What are you trying to say? That the universe is 2 dimensional? This what you do in every discussion you engage in. You say things that don't mean anything. It's because you have nothing to add. I took the time to make a proper argument. If you can't address it, fuck off.

Why don't you admit you are troll and do us all a favour.

admit you're a troll. there's no other excuse for deliberately ignoring what's obvious.
the stars vary in their distance from the central pole. this explains seasons, and is basic flat earth theory. that's why they seem to cross the equator.
the stars as seen from the earth (which is what we're talking about, unless you're changing the subject), look the same when observed from a flat or round earth.

If you were on a disc with stars above rotating around an axis directly above the North pole. Explain precisely the following.

The stars rising and setting at the equator following a 180 degree arc from horizon to horizon.

The fact the stars at the equator are only visible at certain times of year, i.e. when they aren't obscured by the sun.

The fact that there are circumpolar stars in the Southern hemisphere with a centre of rotation which is due south at any given location. If Antarctica is a circle of ice with stars moving above it in a circle centred at the North pole then you would just see stars moving overhead, not rotating.

The fact that the sun is visible for months at a time in Antarctica while it is dark in the Arctic. If the sun was moving in a giant circle above a flat disc Earth how could it be shining everywhere in Antarctica while not shining on the Arctic?

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 08:23:42 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic link=topic=62998.msg1666500#msg1666500

i'm not the one who needs the obvious explained. i have provided a diagram, evidence, and your assertion "There is no reason at all why we would see stars rise and set near the equator on a flat Earth," means nothing. variation in distance from the central pole settles this, and is already expected from how the sun must move to maintain the seasons.


Variation in central poles? What the fuck are you talking about? What diagram?

you seem to be struggling with the fact that a disc is a two dimensional object, while a sphere has three. leave the flat earth alone, for a moment. engage in some simple mathematical modelling. take a balloon, inflate to a sphere, mark the paths star take, around a pole at the top, and the bottom. pop the balloon at one pole. flatten it out. guess what? now everything is going around the other pole. simple math.
whether the earth is flat or round, you are going to get the same star paths. are you finished?


What are you trying to say? That the universe is 2 dimensional? This what you do in every discussion you engage in. You say things that don't mean anything. It's because you have nothing to add. I took the time to make a proper argument. If you can't address it, fuck off.

Why don't you admit you are troll and do us all a favour.

admit you're a troll. there's no other excuse for deliberately ignoring what's obvious.
the stars vary in their distance from the central pole. this explains seasons, and is basic flat earth theory. that's why they seem to cross the equator.
the stars as seen from the earth (which is what we're talking about, unless you're changing the subject), look the same when observed from a flat or round earth.

If you were on a disc with stars above rotating around an axis directly above the North pole. Explain precisely the following.

The stars rising and setting at the equator following a 180 degree arc from horizon to horizon.

The fact the stars at the equator are only visible at certain times of year, i.e. when they aren't obscured by the sun.

The fact that there are circumpolar stars in the Southern hemisphere with a centre of rotation which is due south at any given location. If Antarctica is a circle of ice with stars moving above it in a circle centred at the North pole then you would just see stars moving overhead, not rotating.

The fact that the sun is visible for months at a time in Antarctica while it is dark in the Arctic. If the sun was moving in a giant circle above a flat disc Earth how could it be shining everywhere in Antarctica while not shining on the Arctic?

1. perspective, people can only see so far. the same as how the sun sets.
2. provide evidence this happens, and a round earth explanation, and i will answer. i don't know what you're saying.
3. this is everything i have been explaining. don't cling to the round earth. they rotate parallel to the ice wall, which would look identical no matter which would you stand on. what you're asking here is the same as 'but this globe says the world is flat!'
4. distance, again. the sun is closer to the rim than the center at some points, and further from the rim at others, and isn't visible from too far away. that's what night is.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

herewegoround

  • 286
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 08:42:08 AM »

If you were on a disc with stars above rotating around an axis directly above the North pole. Explain precisely the following.

The stars rising and setting at the equator following a 180 degree arc from horizon to horizon.

The fact the stars at the equator are only visible at certain times of year, i.e. when they aren't obscured by the sun.

The fact that there are circumpolar stars in the Southern hemisphere with a centre of rotation which is due south at any given location. If Antarctica is a circle of ice with stars moving above it in a circle centred at the North pole then you would just see stars moving overhead, not rotating.

The fact that the sun is visible for months at a time in Antarctica while it is dark in the Arctic. If the sun was moving in a giant circle above a flat disc Earth how could it be shining everywhere in Antarctica while not shining on the Arctic?

1. perspective, people can only see so far. the same as how the sun sets.
2. provide evidence this happens, and a round earth explanation, and i will answer. i don't know what you're saying.
3. this is everything i have been explaining. don't cling to the round earth. they rotate parallel to the ice wall, which would look identical no matter which would you stand on. what you're asking here is the same as 'but this globe says the world is flat!'
4. distance, again. the sun is closer to the rim than the center at some points, and further from the rim at others, and isn't visible from too far away. that's what night is.

1. That doesn't even begin to explain the sun setting for a start. If it was due to perspective the angular size of the sun would change significantly over the course of a day. It doesn't because the sun is a long way away. If the stars were moving in a giant circle then they would be seen to be doing so. They wouldn't cross the sky in an arc in exactly the way you would expect them to on a round Earth. Do you even understand what the issue is? In the North there are stars which never go below the horizon and rotate around a point which is always due North. These are called circumpolar stars. In the South there is the same thing. In between there are stars which set and rise like the sun. You would not see this if the Earth was a flat disc with stars rotating above it. Do you genuinely not understand that?

2. The stars which set and rise near the equator are not visible all year round. I'm not providing evidence for elementary well known astronomical phenomenon. If you don't know something like that then you have no business contributing to these discussions.

3. You haven't explained anything. I have given a full account of the circumpolar stars and why they are overwhelming evidence for a round Earth. Unless the geometry of the whole universe is completely whacky there is no other explanation. If they rotated parallel to the ice wall, whatever that means, they wouldn't be seen to rotate around a point. Do you really not get that or are you just being obtuse? If you have a model you need to show some diagrams or even an animation which shows how you could have two sets of circumpolar stars above a flat Earth. What you have said is meaningless.

4. If the sun was at a point on its journey around the flat Earth; how could it be shining at a point on the Antarctic ice wall on the other side of the Earth and not shining on the Arctic which is directly between the sun and the place where its shining in the Antarctic? How is that possible?

*

Dinosaur Neil

  • 3177
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 12:19:26 PM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic link=topic=62998.msg1666500#msg1666500

i'm not the one who needs the obvious explained. i have provided a diagram, evidence, and your assertion "There is no reason at all why we would see stars rise and set near the equator on a flat Earth," means nothing. variation in distance from the central pole settles this, and is already expected from how the sun must move to maintain the seasons.


Variation in central poles? What the fuck are you talking about? What diagram?

you seem to be struggling with the fact that a disc is a two dimensional object, while a sphere has three. leave the flat earth alone, for a moment. engage in some simple mathematical modelling. take a balloon, inflate to a sphere, mark the paths star take, around a pole at the top, and the bottom. pop the balloon at one pole. flatten it out. guess what? now everything is going around the other pole. simple math.
whether the earth is flat or round, you are going to get the same star paths. are you finished?


What are you trying to say? That the universe is 2 dimensional? This what you do in every discussion you engage in. You say things that don't mean anything. It's because you have nothing to add. I took the time to make a proper argument. If you can't address it, fuck off.

Why don't you admit you are troll scepti in disguise and do us all a favour.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 12:32:06 PM »

If you were on a disc with stars above rotating around an axis directly above the North pole. Explain precisely the following.

The stars rising and setting at the equator following a 180 degree arc from horizon to horizon.

The fact the stars at the equator are only visible at certain times of year, i.e. when they aren't obscured by the sun.

The fact that there are circumpolar stars in the Southern hemisphere with a centre of rotation which is due south at any given location. If Antarctica is a circle of ice with stars moving above it in a circle centred at the North pole then you would just see stars moving overhead, not rotating.

The fact that the sun is visible for months at a time in Antarctica while it is dark in the Arctic. If the sun was moving in a giant circle above a flat disc Earth how could it be shining everywhere in Antarctica while not shining on the Arctic?

1. perspective, people can only see so far. the same as how the sun sets.
2. provide evidence this happens, and a round earth explanation, and i will answer. i don't know what you're saying.
3. this is everything i have been explaining. don't cling to the round earth. they rotate parallel to the ice wall, which would look identical no matter which would you stand on. what you're asking here is the same as 'but this globe says the world is flat!'
4. distance, again. the sun is closer to the rim than the center at some points, and further from the rim at others, and isn't visible from too far away. that's what night is.

1. That doesn't even begin to explain the sun setting for a start. If it was due to perspective the angular size of the sun would change significantly over the course of a day. It doesn't because the sun is a long way away. If the stars were moving in a giant circle then they would be seen to be doing so. They wouldn't cross the sky in an arc in exactly the way you would expect them to on a round Earth. Do you even understand what the issue is? In the North there are stars which never go below the horizon and rotate around a point which is always due North. These are called circumpolar stars. In the South there is the same thing. In between there are stars which set and rise like the sun. You would not see this if the Earth was a flat disc with stars rotating above it. Do you genuinely not understand that?

2. The stars which set and rise near the equator are not visible all year round. I'm not providing evidence for elementary well known astronomical phenomenon. If you don't know something like that then you have no business contributing to these discussions.

3. You haven't explained anything. I have given a full account of the circumpolar stars and why they are overwhelming evidence for a round Earth. Unless the geometry of the whole universe is completely whacky there is no other explanation. If they rotated parallel to the ice wall, whatever that means, they wouldn't be seen to rotate around a point. Do you really not get that or are you just being obtuse? If you have a model you need to show some diagrams or even an animation which shows how you could have two sets of circumpolar stars above a flat Earth. What you have said is meaningless.

4. If the sun was at a point on its journey around the flat Earth; how could it be shining at a point on the Antarctic ice wall on the other side of the Earth and not shining on the Arctic which is directly between the sun and the place where its shining in the Antarctic? How is that possible?

1.  you've changed the question. stars rise and set because they rotate into and out of view. they follow an arc because that's what rotation is.

2. again, "provide evidence this happens, and a round earth explanation, and i will answer. i don't know what you're saying." i don't doubt it may be true, i just don't understand what you're trying to say or what phenomenon you're referring to. if you could link to an example of what you're talking about at the very least, i'd be able to reply.

3. this was another case where you were very unclear with what you were asking. i did not fully understand the question because you made what you meant obscure. i am speaking with someone else on the topic, when i understand what it is you're trying to propose i will reply.

4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

Dinosaur Neil

  • 3177
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 12:48:04 PM »
4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.

What you mean is "I choose not to believe them because they undermine FET like a bitch".
Cherry picking is a logical fallacy, you know.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 12:50:01 PM »
4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.

What you mean is "I choose not to believe them because they undermine FET like a bitch".
Cherry picking is a logical fallacy, you know.

we know the earth is flat for separate reasons, we know governments lie, we know scientists are interested in money, we know it is possible to spend a few weeks in alaska and declare you've just come back from the antarctic. all this is perfectly logical.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 12:53:05 PM by JRoweSkeptic »
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

Mikey T.

  • 3546
  • +0/-1
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 12:52:07 PM »
pssst, you forgot not round there.  Just letting you know you put a typo there before one of my fellow shills hits you for a Freudian slip.

*

Mikey T.

  • 3546
  • +0/-1
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 12:55:29 PM »
There ya go, flat.  better than my suggestion of not round.

*

Dinosaur Neil

  • 3177
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2015, 12:58:02 PM »
4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.

What you mean is "I choose not to believe them because they undermine FET like a bitch".
Cherry picking is a logical fallacy, you know.

we know the earth is flat for separate reasons, most of which are wrong. we know governments lie, not about everything, we know scientists are interested in money, but then who isn't, we know it is possible to spend a few weeks in alaska and declare you've just come back from the antarctic, and the same is true of anywhere else but not for 100% of everyone who goes there. all this is perfectly logical except for the parts which aren't.

Huge amount of cherry picking again. Obviously your fallacy of choice.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 01:00:49 PM »
4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.
i can change quotes ooh look at me i'm so clever worship me also the earth is a ducking donut

we know the earth is flat for separate reasons, most of which are wrong. we know governments lie, not about everything, we know scientists are interested in money, but then who isn't, we know it is possible to spend a few weeks in alaska and declare you've just come back from the antarctic, and the same is true of anywhere else but not for 100% of everyone who goes there. all this is perfectly logical except for the parts which aren't.

Huge amount of cherry picking again. Obviously your fallacy of choice.

and your tactic of choice, along with most round earthers, seems to be assertion and no evidence.

try harder, later.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

Dinosaur Neil

  • 3177
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2015, 01:04:40 PM »
4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.
i can change quotes ooh look at me i'm so clever worship me also the earth is a ducking donut

we know the earth is flat for separate reasons, most of which are wrong. we know governments lie, not about everything, we know scientists are interested in money, but then who isn't, we know it is possible to spend a few weeks in alaska and declare you've just come back from the antarctic, and the same is true of anywhere else but not for 100% of everyone who goes there. all this is perfectly logical except for the parts which aren't.

Huge amount of cherry picking again. Obviously your fallacy of choice.

and your tactic of choice, along with most round earthers, seems to be assertion and no evidence.

try harder, later.

You want evidence? You think I have no evidence earth is a torus? You're wrong.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2015, 01:06:53 PM »
4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.
i can change quotes ooh look at me i'm so clever worship me also the earth is a ducking donut

we know the earth is flat for separate reasons, most of which are wrong. we know governments lie, not about everything, we know scientists are interested in money, but then who isn't, we know it is possible to spend a few weeks in alaska and declare you've just come back from the antarctic, and the same is true of anywhere else but not for 100% of everyone who goes there. all this is perfectly logical except for the parts which aren't.

Huge amount of cherry picking again. Obviously your fallacy of choice.

and your tactic of choice, along with most round earthers, seems to be assertion and no evidence.

try harder, later.

You want evidence? You think I have no evidence earth is a torus? You're wrong.

i'll wait for you to supply anything.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

Dinosaur Neil

  • 3177
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2015, 01:27:47 PM »
4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.
i can change quotes ooh look at me i'm so clever worship me also the earth is a ducking donut

we know the earth is flat for separate reasons, most of which are wrong. we know governments lie, not about everything, we know scientists are interested in money, but then who isn't, we know it is possible to spend a few weeks in alaska and declare you've just come back from the antarctic, and the same is true of anywhere else but not for 100% of everyone who goes there. all this is perfectly logical except for the parts which aren't.

Huge amount of cherry picking again. Obviously your fallacy of choice.

and your tactic of choice, along with most round earthers, seems to be assertion and no evidence.

try harder, later.

You want evidence? You think I have no evidence earth is a torus? You're wrong.

i'll wait for you to supply anything.

1. On a toroidal earth, one would expect to see a horizon a few miles distant, which would obscure the sun as it set and ships would appear to sink over it. This is indeed what is observed: therefore, evidence.
2. On a toroidal earth, the force of gravity would act to pull objects and structures on the outer edge towards the centre of mass, in a direction perpendicular to the surface. This is indeed what is observed: therefore, evidence.
3. As the torus rotates, one would expect to see stars appear to rotate about two points in the night sky at 180 degrees to each other. This is what we see: therefore, evidence.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

*

ausGeoff

  • 6091
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2015, 03:30:49 PM »
I'll wait for you to supply anything.

And while you're waiting, you might like to address my earlier question, which you seem to have ignored thus far for some reason:

Can you name 6 scientists who accept the flat earth theory—from the worldwide pool of 6,000,000?

?

herewegoround

  • 286
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2015, 12:31:26 AM »
Once again a discussion has been derailed by the vapid antics and disingenuous tactics of a flat brainer. I'm not responding to JRowe. He's proved beyond doubt he is either a troll or a halfwit.

?

sevenhills

  • 219
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2015, 12:54:07 AM »
Once again a discussion has been derailed by the vapid antics and disingenuous tactics of a flat brainer. I'm not responding to JRowe. He's proved beyond doubt he is either a troll or a halfwit.

I don't think he is a Troll...I do think there is something genuinely wrong with him though.

?

tappet

  • 2162
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2015, 01:08:14 AM »
I'll wait for you to supply anything.

And while you're waiting, you might like to address my earlier question, which you seem to have ignored thus far for some reason:

Can you name 6 scientists who accept the flat earth theory—from the worldwide pool of 6,000,000?
What a silly request, you would have to personally ask each one of this 6,000,000 individually to find out if they believe flat earth theory. They might do as I do, I  keep my mouth shut while I roam amongst the loons.
As far as the loons go they think I am also a ball earther.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2015, 03:19:27 AM »
Once again a discussion has been derailed by the vapid antics and disingenuous tactics of a flat brainer. I'm not responding to JRowe. He's proved beyond doubt he is either a troll or a halfwit.

i suggest you read the thread. i stayed on topic, answered the question, neil dragged it off course and started blabbing about donuts. round earths are at fault here, refusing to admit that speaks only about you.

geoff, i'm glad you're no longer responding to me, please carry that behavior over to other threads as you never have anything to add beyond a foul temper and assertion.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

herewegoround

  • 286
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2015, 04:34:20 AM »
Once again a discussion has been derailed by the vapid antics and disingenuous tactics of a flat brainer. I'm not responding to JRowe. He's proved beyond doubt he is either a troll or a halfwit.

i suggest you read the thread. i stayed on topic, answered the question, neil dragged it off course and started blabbing about donuts. round earths are at fault here, refusing to admit that speaks only about you.

geoff, i'm glad you're no longer responding to me, please carry that behavior over to other threads as you never have anything to add beyond a foul temper and assertion.

This the last thing I am going to say to you because you are a waste of time. I took the time to post a thorough explanation of why you wouldn't see circumpolar stars on a flat Earth. You're immediate response was to be an obnoxious asshole. You then made some utterly meaningless remarks, as I have said before I can't explain why a meaningless statement is wrong. The fact that there are circumpolar stars annihilates flat Earth theory. You also completely failed to explain who the sun can be shining everywhere in Antarctica while not shining in the Arctic.

Flat Earth promoters I have encountered broadly fall into two categories. Those who simply withdraw from the discussion when they know they don't have an answer and those, like you, who just keep going with every more random and irrelevant statements. I have encountered a few like you and your tactics are profoundly dishonest. You make up the rules as you go along and have the audacity to claim that others are doing that to you. I can't even imagine what is going on in your head. I know I have been honest and I know I have stuck as much as possible to both logic and well established facts. You just throw mud and behave like a child. You get the same response eventually from almost everyone you talk to in here.

Are you genuinely proud of how you behave? I think you should seriously think about that. I say this with all seriousness, you have the behavioural profile of a psychological abuser. That stands whether you are a troll or not. You have major problems.

*

Mainframes

  • 2088
  • +0/-0
Re: The Geometry of Circumpolar Stars
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2015, 04:38:08 AM »
4. it is a simple observation that reports of the antarctic are unreliable on a flat earth.
i can change quotes ooh look at me i'm so clever worship me also the earth is a ducking donut

we know the earth is flat for separate reasons, most of which are wrong. we know governments lie, not about everything, we know scientists are interested in money, but then who isn't, we know it is possible to spend a few weeks in alaska and declare you've just come back from the antarctic, and the same is true of anywhere else but not for 100% of everyone who goes there. all this is perfectly logical except for the parts which aren't.

Huge amount of cherry picking again. Obviously your fallacy of choice.

and your tactic of choice, along with most round earthers, seems to be assertion and no evidence.

try harder, later.

You want evidence? You think I have no evidence earth is a torus? You're wrong.

i'll wait for you to supply anything.

1. On a toroidal earth, one would expect to see a horizon a few miles distant, which would obscure the sun as it set and ships would appear to sink over it. This is indeed what is observed: therefore, evidence.
2. On a toroidal earth, the force of gravity would act to pull objects and structures on the outer edge towards the centre of mass, in a direction perpendicular to the surface. This is indeed what is observed: therefore, evidence.
3. As the torus rotates, one would expect to see stars appear to rotate about two points in the night sky at 180 degrees to each other. This is what we see: therefore, evidence.

Also evidence for a spherical Earth. What evidence do you have that differentiates a toroid from a sphere?
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.