Could there be NO flat Earth...NO Round Earth ...just the BIG DREAM

Lets assume an position of Life is just a dream.

When we are in bed sleeping, we dream of existing in land much like this, yet in the dream we are not aware we are dreaming.

Why can't Earth be the same?

After all, this dream sure appears to be just as fucked up ...as dreamland 

Therefore, to answer the Round Earth vs Flat Earth riddle.

Neither is true.

It's all a dream ...created by some master dream weaver ....and we are just along for the experiential ride.

Plus....to add drama to the movie plot, everyone is quite insane and suffering from the delusion that they are sane.
 

I don't always know when I am dreaming, but I know when I'm not.  And I know that my life is not a dream, and everything was not put here just to trick me into thinking reality exists.  It would be nice if everyone could be right.  Then FET could be kind of the 'Special Olympics' of science.  Let's call it Special Science.  Everyone if FE gets a gold ribbon for every dribble they come up with.  But it doesn't mean a thing.  The earth is still round, and the real science will continue without them.  And if you are dreaming, why the heck would you dream about reading this stupid post?  Don't you have better things to dream about?  Dream about sex, that's an order!

If its a dream unique to each of us then its meaningless to question what it means for reality. Our own realities are reality.

This goes down the same road of "I don't know that anyone besides me thinks or actually exists outside my head, so I must assume only I exist."

Also,



INCEPTION! WE NEED LADDERS TO GO DEEPER INTO THE DREAM!

I don't always know when I am dreaming, but I know when I'm not.

While most of us generally think when we wake up each morning, the dream ends, however the dream itself can be used as a clue.

While in that dream, we walk on land, we eat, we chat/ communicate with other people and we manipulate objects. In all aspects we appear in our dreams to be living in a real place and having real experiences.
However, we are unable to use our mental faculties to generally compute that we are dreaming.

Now consider this, the world in which we play in during our dreams does not really exist, does it?

If you were to consider rather the Earth was round or flat inside the dream, it would be neither simply because it all is an illusion.

My suggestion here actually should make sense.

Most believe in the BIG BANG

Out of absolutely nothing...came something. (naturally)

Out of that something....it all self organized (naturally)
Out of that parts that became self organized we have consciousness 

and here we are floating on a ball in the middle of nowhere 

There appears to be a holographic theory that tends to support that everything is just a kind of illusion.
My Big Toe, by Tom Campbell does a wonderful job of explaining it.


However, for some reason this site appears to me to forgo all other data and proclaim the world is flat without considering....that ....the world is a holographic simulation which has certain aspects that are modeled flat and certain models that are round.

Otherwise, this site  is an exercise in balanced insanity. RET vs FET

For one can not move forward if one is determined to stand still 

The thing about dreams is that although you can't always tell if you are in a dream you can control everything once you realize that it's a dream.  If what we think of as reality is really a dream and you knew it then you could summon a portal gun out of thin air and make bacon healthy, but that is not the case so naturally we can assume that this is not a dream.

Well I hope its not, that would mean I'm trapped in a perpetuated nightmare.

The thing about dreams is that although you can't always tell if you are in a dream you can control everything once you realize that it's a dream.  If what we think of as reality is really a dream and you knew it then you could summon a portal gun out of thin air and make bacon healthy, but that is not the case so naturally we can assume that this is not a dream.

Let us imagine the possibility that we entered a very special kind of dream.

Before we arrived we agreed that our powers of control would be very limited to a particular rule set.

Those being

Rule #1

The player must forget who they really are ( a player ) and believe they are something else instead. – at the extremes , for example that they are their body. Hereafter called their avatar.


Rule 2
The player must believe their holographic experiences are real  and what they are perceiving with their 5 senses is actually happening out there. In some objective and independent reality.

Rule 3

The players must believe what they encounter out there has power over them. And the power to affect their lives.

Rule 4

The player must believe in the judgments of  good and bad, right and wrong, better and worse, good and evil.

Rule 5

The players must believe there is something wrong  with the reality they see out there and needs to be changed, fixed or improved.

Rule 6

The players must believe they have a power to create a different reality than what they are experiencing and therefore feel defective and deficient ( more limited) when they fail.

Rule 7

The player must believe they can think their way out of the first part of the human game by using their mind, or love their way out of it by using their heart.

Rule 8

They players must believe they can make something happen, and when they fail,  blame themselves for not being smarter or better at working harder.

Rule 9

The players must believe there are goals to be reached or agendas to be satisfied, or lessons to be learned.

Rule 10

The players must believe they, and they alone, are responsible for meeting their own needs and wants for which they have to fight for.

Rule 11

Fear and resistance are the foundations of the first part of the human game and judgments and their resulting beliefs are the glue that keeps the illusion together.

Rule 12

These illusions must never break down, or the players will see through the game, and it would be over.

That's just last thursdayism. Maybe the world was made last Thursday, and all of our memories from before that are fake.

It's possible, but it's also unprovable, so it doesn't really add to our understanding of the world.

Occam's razor, kman. It also disproves FE.

It's possible, but it's also unprovable, so it doesn't really add to our understanding of the world.

Does your statement not qualify as  a narrow minded statement?



In one search for truth, narrow-mindedness would tend to hinders ones progress don't you think?


My goal is not to force my opinion, on others, but rather to offer a new direction in consideration.
Thinking of the big picture rather than just a puzzle piece. 

Quote from: kman on March 01, 2015, 05:28:14 PM

It's possible, but it's also unprovable, so it doesn't really add to our understanding of the world.

Does your statement not qualify as  a narrow minded statement?



In one search for truth, narrow-mindedness would tend to hinders ones progress don't you think?


My goal is not to force my opinion, on others, but rather to offer a new direction in consideration.
Thinking of the big picture rather than just a puzzle piece. 

Well, maybe we are all pineapples, and we just think we are humans. Or maybe tomorrow we will all grow another head. Or maybe bunnies actually run the world.

Non of these are any more legitimate, reasonable, or provable then your theory.

Well, maybe we are all pineapples, and we just think we are humans. Or maybe tomorrow we will all grow another head. Or maybe bunnies actually run the world.

Non of these are any more legitimate, reasonable, or provable then your theory.

Well my friend, seeing as how you appear interested in offering your thoughts.

Please share with me briefly your outlook or theory of how we come to find ourselves "here" in;

-an objective universe with planets, stars, galaxies, etc;

and

further explain your "theory" of how humans got here?

I would actually be quite impressed if you could actually in a sincere and honest manor express your insight.
 

Please share with me briefly your outlook or theory of how we come to find ourselves "here" in;

-an objective universe with planets, stars, galaxies, etc;

and

further explain your "theory" of how humans got here?

I would actually be quite impressed if you could actually in a sincere and honest manor express your insight.
 

I agree with the conclusions that have been reached by the scientific community.

Our universe is made up of billions of galaxies. We are in one called the Milky Way. Our solar system consists of a few planets and a medium sized star. Our planet is round (like all of the others)

Humans evolved roughly 200,000 years in Africa. We have been spreading throughout the planet since then.

I agree with the conclusions that have been reached by the scientific community.

Our universe is made up of billions of galaxies. We are in one called the Milky Way. Our solar system consists of a few planets and a medium sized star. Our planet is round (like all of the others)

Humans evolved roughly 200,000 years in Africa. We have been spreading throughout the planet since then.

Ok

So what I can state than is that in a way you are a kind of Border Control Guard for an official State sanctioned stamped reality.

thank you.

Quote from: kman on March 01, 2015, 06:57:04 PM

I agree with the conclusions that have been reached by the scientific community.

Our universe is made up of billions of galaxies. We are in one called the Milky Way. Our solar system consists of a few planets and a medium sized star. Our planet is round (like all of the others)

Humans evolved roughly 200,000 years in Africa. We have been spreading throughout the planet since then.

Ok

So what I can state than is that in a way you are a kind of Border Control Guard for an official State sanctioned stamped reality.

thank you.

Is not arrogant and condescending to assume my beliefs are only as a result of indoctrination? I'm a free thinker too, I just came to a different conclusion then you did.

What do you think is wrong with evolution?

One common proof that the universe is not virtual is irrational numbers like PI, the square root of 2, the golden proportion, and e.  These numbers just keep on going forever and they never repeat themselves as far as we know, so how would this be possible if the universe were in any way virtual?  Either someone would have to program them in or you would have to come up with them yourself and either way that's impossible because they have infinite numbers after the decimal.

Is not arrogant and condescending to assume my beliefs are only as a result of indoctrination?

To debate beliefs would be an exercise in futility.
Beliefs, like I have stated before, have absolutely nothing to do with Truths.

I have absolutely no clue how the universe came to be.

However, I consider that it very unlikely that something came out of nothing, and then self organized.
Hence, the Big Bang.

There is ample evidence to suggest that the universe is indeed holographic.

My premise for this thread is simply to consider that;

There could be another explanation for what "here" is 

One common proof that the universe is not virtual is irrational numbers like PI, the square root of 2, the golden proportion, and e.  These numbers just keep on going forever and they never repeat themselves as far as we know, so how would this be possible if the universe were in any way virtual?  Either someone would have to program them in or you would have to come up with them yourself and either way that's impossible because they have infinite numbers after the decimal.

The scientific empirical evidence actually supports the theory of a virtual universe.
More and more scientist within the scientific community are coming to terms with these conclusions.
The evidence is hidden in plain sight, and self evident.

I often make the statement to folks.

Which is easier for GOD to do.

Make a universe out of matter, or make the illusion of a universe out of dreams?

Most agree the illusion is easier to create.

Works that way in the movie and video game industry as well. 

The scientific empirical evidence actually supports the theory of a virtual universe.

More and more scientist within the scientific community are coming to terms with these conclusions.

The evidence is hidden in plain sight, and self evident.

If nothing else, there is at least one thing which can assure you that the universe is not virtual at all : human stupidity (naivety) which is infinite!

However, I consider that it very unlikely that something came out of nothing, and then self organized.

That would be very unlikely.
Good thing that that's not the premise of the big bang.

What exactly do you mean by self organized?

Quote from: Vitalux on March 02, 2015, 02:50:02 AM

The scientific empirical evidence actually supports the theory of a virtual universe.

The evidence is hidden in plain sight, and self evident.

Go do some research like I did. There is ample information out there to study.
It would be pointless for me to post the information, you would probably not read it, and more than likely argue against it.

First place I suggest you start is if you wish to educated  yourself is;
Tom Campbells "My Big Toe"
http://www.my-big-toe.com/uploads/TMIKeynoteSlidesV3.pdf

It is a free pdf downloand.

read it

Otherwise, if you wish to have an intellectual dance with me, please know how to dance, I am not here to teach you. It is not my responsibility to educate the ignorant. I seek those that wish to learn and grow, not defend their ignorance.

Google in your friend. 

Quote from: Vitalux on March 02, 2015, 02:41:13 AM

However, I consider that it very unlikely that something came out of nothing, and then self organized.

That would be very unlikely.
Good thing that that's not the premise of the big bang.

What exactly do you mean by self organized?

Entropy

One of the ideas involved in the concept of entropy is that nature tends from order to disorder in isolated systems.



Evolution would tend to be an example of a system losing Entropy.
loss of entropy equals more order : increase in entropy equal less order.

Quote from: kman on March 02, 2015, 12:33:19 PM

Quote from: Vitalux on March 02, 2015, 02:41:13 AM

However, I consider that it very unlikely that something came out of nothing, and then self organized.

That would be very unlikely.
Good thing that that's not the premise of the big bang.

What exactly do you mean by self organized?

Entropy

One of the ideas involved in the concept of entropy is that nature tends from order to disorder in isolated systems.



Evolution would tend to be an example of a system losing Entropy.
loss of entropy equals more order : increase in entropy equal less order.

The key word is 'isolated'. The Earth is not an isolated system here; it receives a vast amount of energy from the Sun. The entropy of the Sun-Earth system is increasing.

The key word is 'isolated'. The Earth is not an isolated system here; it receives a vast amount of energy from the Sun. The entropy of the Sun-Earth system is increasing.

Well...
let us start at the beginning. 

Please explain where all the energy (or mass)  first originated from to cause the Big Bang.
Let us start with absolutely Nothing.
A BIG ZERO

Explain how you can suddenly create something out of nothing. 

Explain how you can suddenly create something out of nothing. 

You can't.

The universe started as singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density.

If you don't even understand the basics of the Big Bang Theory, why are you attempting to debate it?

You are the one saying how you should know the basics of a theory before attempting to debate it.

if you wish to have an intellectual dance with me, please know how to dance, I am not here to teach you. It is not my responsibility to educate the ignorant. I seek those that wish to learn and grow, not defend their ignorance.

Google in your friend. 

You can't.

The universe started as singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density.

If you don't like the Big Bang idea, why is everything accelerating from a central point? And how do you explain the cosmic microwave background?

Where did the singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density come from?

 


My point in all of this....

a kind of paradox exists.

One would consider that you can not create something out of nothing.


Therefore, one who has a belief in the Big Bang, for the most part, is completely ignoring the basic fact that it would be illogical to assume one can create something out of absolutely nothing.

So, just as when I put the question to you, you played "here we go around the mulberry bush " as you kept avoiding the common sense fact that something can't be created out of something.
So we have to start with the premise there was something,,,, which avoids the whole dilemma  of " I have no clue how something came from 

Quote from: kman on March 02, 2015, 05:37:47 PM

You can't.

The universe started as singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density.

If you don't like the Big Bang idea, why is everything accelerating from a central point? And how do you explain the cosmic microwave background?

Where did the singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density come from?

 

We don't know.
As all of space and time are thought to have originated in this singularity, that question may not be answerable within the limits of our universe.

Even though we can't fully explain it, there is abundant evidence for it.
I quote from here http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

"First of all, we are reasonably certain that the universe had a beginning.

Second, galaxies appear to be moving away from us at speeds proportional to their distance. This is called "Hubble's Law," named after Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) who discovered this phenomenon in 1929. This observation supports the expansion of the universe and suggests that the universe was once compacted.

Third, if the universe was initially very, very hot as the Big Bang suggests, we should be able to find some remnant of this heat. In 1965, Radioastronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin (-454.765 degree Fahrenheit, -270.425 degree Celsius) Cosmic Microwave Background radiation (CMB) which pervades the observable universe. This is thought to be the remnant which scientists were looking for. Penzias and Wilson shared in the 1978 Nobel Prize for Physics for their discovery.

Finally, the abundance of the "light elements" Hydrogen and Helium found in the observable universe are thought to support the Big Bang model of origins."

More recently, sceintists have discovered gas clouds that are nearly as old as the universe that have the composition of elements that the big bang theory predicts.


It is pretty clear you don't understand the basics of the Big Bang Theory

You are the one saying how you should know the basics of a theory before attempting to debate it.

if you wish to have an intellectual dance with me, please know how to dance, I am not here to teach you. It is not my responsibility to educate the ignorant. I seek those that wish to learn and grow, not defend their ignorance.

Google in your friend. 

Quote from: Vitalux on March 02, 2015, 05:43:48 PM

Quote from: kman on March 02, 2015, 05:37:47 PM

You can't.

The universe started as singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density.

If you don't like the Big Bang idea, why is everything accelerating from a central point? And how do you explain the cosmic microwave background?

Where did the singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density come from?

 

We don't know.

That is the most important point in your post.

I have already studied and have familiarity with all general aspects of the things you mention. 
Those were my initial things I learned in my studies a few decades ago and long ago used as a bases for consideration.

For example, in Tom Cambells Book my Big Toe (which means "my big theory of everything") he discusses his theory of how the entire universe is a holographic simulation.
It is not that difficult to grasp.

If you have not familiarized yourself with the book, I urge you to at least watch a few of his many videos on youtube.


After all, he is a scientist with a Phd, so I would assume he would know something about what he is talking about.

My goal in this thread is to offer folks an alternative insight.

Otherwise, to actually believe we exist on  a flat planet floating in the cosmos, one would have to be a complete imbecile.
It would be an exercise in complete stupidity.
Simply because we have the devices to prove it, and they would be simply ignoring the evidence because it is an inconvenience. 

That being said, perhaps there are some very good points the Flat Earthers do make as observations.
My guess, is that they are just failing to connect all the dots to finalize their theory.

Quote from: kman on March 02, 2015, 05:48:33 PM

Quote from: Vitalux on March 02, 2015, 05:43:48 PM

Quote from: kman on March 02, 2015, 05:37:47 PM

You can't.

The universe started as singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density.

If you don't like the Big Bang idea, why is everything accelerating from a central point? And how do you explain the cosmic microwave background?

Where did the singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density come from?

 

We don't know.

That is the most important point in your post.

I have already studied and have familiarity with all general aspects of the things you mention. 
Those were my initial things I learned in my studies a few decades ago and long ago used as a bases for consideration.

For example, in Tom Cambells Book my Big Toe (which means "my big theory of everything") he discusses his theory of how the entire universe is a holographic simulation.
It is not that difficult to grasp.

If you have not familiarized yourself with the book, I urge you to at least watch a few of his many videos on youtube.


After all, he is a scientist with a Phd, so I would assume he would know something about what he is talking about.

My goal in this thread is to offer folks an alternative insight.

Otherwise, to actually believe we exist on  a flat planet floating in the cosmos, one would have to be a complete imbecile.
It would be an exercise in complete stupidity.
Simply because we have the devices to prove it, and they would be simply ignoring the evidence because it is an inconvenience. 

If you had indeed familiarized yourself with the Big Bang Theory you wouldn't be talking about how something can't come from nothing.
The notion that we are living on a flat plane is ridiculous. I agree.
And you still haven't disproved the Big Bang Theory.