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Perspective

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adam111777

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Perspective
« on: February 16, 2015, 02:55:03 AM »
I am curious as to many things that FE'ers believe. I am certain that the Earth is in fact round but I am also curious as to hear reasons otherwise.

I believe that FE'ers believe that the moon and the sun are relatively short distances from the Earth (a couple thousand miles away). So surely if a telescope can see them, what is to stop me from seeing the Burj Khalifa or Mount Everest with a powerful telescope if the world is in fact flat?
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sceptimatic

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2015, 04:38:55 AM »
The atmosphere in your horizontal view is much thicker than your vertical. The atmosphere gets less dense the higher it goes.

Think of it like this. Imagine you're looking through thick glass sheets along the horizontal path. One after the other, all the same thickness. Soon it will become translucent and then opaque to your vision.

Now imagine glass stacked vertically but this time the stack is a thick sheet follwed by a slightly less thick sheet and so on and so on until it's a paper thin sheet of glass.
 
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Mainframes

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 04:51:06 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on February 16, 2015, 04:38:55 AM
The atmosphere in your horizontal view is much thicker than your vertical. The atmosphere gets less dense the higher it goes.

Think of it like this. Imagine you're looking through thick glass sheets along the horizontal path. One after the other, all the same thickness. Soon it will become translucent and then opaque to your vision.

Now imagine glass stacked vertically but this time the stack is a thick sheet follwed by a slightly less thick sheet and so on and so on until it's a paper thin sheet of glass.

If this is the case then we would see large distant objects disappearing into a haze, but what we actually see is large distant objects actually disappearing below the horizon. Why is this?

(edited to please forum police)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 09:07:55 AM by Mainframes »
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2015, 05:20:51 AM »
Quote from: Mainframes on February 16, 2015, 04:51:06 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on February 16, 2015, 04:38:55 AM
The atmosphere in your horizontal view is much thicker than your vertical. The atmosphere gets less dense the higher it goes.

Think of it like this. Imagine you're looking through thick glass sheets along the horizontal path. One after the other, all the same thickness. Soon it will become translucent and then opaque to your vision.

Now imagine glass stacked vertically but this time the stack is a thick sheet follwed by a slightly less thick sheet and so on and so on until it's a paper thin sheet of glass.

If this is the case then we would see large distant objects disappearing into a haze, but what we actually see is large distant objects actually disappearing below the horizon.

Then, why do large distant objects disappear into a haze?  Also, this is not a debate forum.  Stay out of Q&A if you do not have a flat Earth Question or Answer.  Thanks. 
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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2015, 07:53:17 AM »
Quote from: adam111777 on February 16, 2015, 02:55:03 AM
I am curious as to many things that FE'ers believe. I am certain that the Earth is in fact round but I am also curious as to hear reasons otherwise.

I believe that FE'ers believe that the moon and the sun are relatively short distances from the Earth (a couple thousand miles away). So surely if a telescope can see them, what is to stop me from seeing the Burj Khalifa or Mount Everest with a powerful telescope if the world is in fact flat?
have you even tried using a telescope to verify that? think for yourself.

the moon and the sun are much bigger, and provide their own light. the mountains do not.
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kman

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2015, 08:38:46 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 07:53:17 AM
and provide their own light. the mountains do not.

Please explain to us how the moon provides it's own light
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robintex

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 10:13:01 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on February 16, 2015, 04:38:55 AM
The atmosphere in your horizontal view is much thicker than your vertical. The atmosphere gets less dense the higher it goes.

Think of it like this. Imagine you're looking through thick glass sheets along the horizontal path. One after the other, all the same thickness. Soon it will become translucent and then opaque to your vision.

Now imagine glass stacked vertically but this time the stack is a thick sheet follwed by a slightly less thick sheet and so on and so on until it's a paper thin sheet of glass.

There are means to penetrate haze such as infra-red film and filters.

Also it is possible to see stars rising and setting on the horizon on a clear night.
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robintex

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2015, 10:13:59 AM »
Quote from: kman on February 16, 2015, 08:38:46 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 07:53:17 AM
and provide their own light. the mountains do not.

Please explain to us how the moon provides it's own light


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http://www.battlefieldheroes.com/en/forum/showthread.php?tid=234658
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 10:18:50 AM by Googleotomy »
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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 10:35:18 AM »
Quote from: kman on February 16, 2015, 08:38:46 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 07:53:17 AM
and provide their own light. the mountains do not.

Please explain to us how the moon provides it's own light
it... provides... light
are you kidding with these questions? it's not what bs scientists say it is. we can see the moon provides light. rock doesn't reflect.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2015, 10:46:29 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
rock doesn't reflect.
Really?  So rocks absorb 100% of any light that hits them?  That's quite a claim.  An insane claim to be specific.
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robintex

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2015, 10:56:51 AM »
Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on February 16, 2015, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
rock doesn't reflect.
Really?  So rocks absorb 100% of any light that hits them?  That's quite a claim.  An insane claim to be specific.

Here is a simple experiment. Put some kind of a shade in front of a rock to block the light. That would be like an eclipse of the moon. See how much light is reflected from the rock. Then remove the shade and see how much light is reflected from the rock. That would be like a full moon. See how much light is absorbed and reflected  by the rock. Maybe more is absorbed and less reflected for a dull black rock than a shiny white rock, but not 100% absorbed .The surface of the moon is about a midway gray so it reflects the light of the sun.

Where in the world does some of the insanity you see on this website come from ?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 08:45:44 PM by Googleotomy »
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And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

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markjo

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2015, 11:35:10 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
rock doesn't reflect.
Do you even understand how light and vision work?
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kman

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2015, 07:46:56 PM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: kman on February 16, 2015, 08:38:46 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 07:53:17 AM
and provide their own light. the mountains do not.

Please explain to us how the moon provides it's own light
it... provides... light


How? The moon is a big chunk of rock. Rocks don't glow. They don't produce light. Please explain how this works instead of just repeating your original bullshit claim. And maybe take a sec to consider the fact that you might not be a smarter then everyone.
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robintex

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2015, 08:19:54 PM »
Here is another bit of true life history disproving the myth of a flat earth.

The survivors of the Titanic disaster were in lifeboats and were close to the level of the sea. Due to their low height, the distance to the horizon would be just a few miles. Some of those persons reported they could see stars rising and setting on the horizon. if the earth was flat, the horizon would be where the ice dome meets the ice ring and thousands of miles distant from the lifeboats.

They did not sight the Carpathia until it appeared on the horizon.

If the earth was flat, they would have seen the lights of the Carpathia much earlier because there would have been no curvature of the earth preventing them from seeing the ship.

Likewise, the distance from the Carpathia to the Titanic was about 58 miles. The night was reportedly unusually clear. The lights of the Titanic would have been seen in the distance if the earth was flat.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 08:49:37 PM by Googleotomy »
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And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
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Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !
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robintex

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2015, 08:33:29 PM »
Quote from: jroa on February 16, 2015, 05:20:51 AM
Quote from: Mainframes on February 16, 2015, 04:51:06 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on February 16, 2015, 04:38:55 AM
The atmosphere in your horizontal view is much thicker than your vertical. The atmosphere gets less dense the higher it goes.

Think of it like this. Imagine you're looking through thick glass sheets along the horizontal path. One after the other, all the same thickness. Soon it will become translucent and then opaque to your vision.

Now imagine glass stacked vertically but this time the stack is a thick sheet follwed by a slightly less thick sheet and so on and so on until it's a paper thin sheet of glass.

If this is the case then we would see large distant objects disappearing into a haze, but what we actually see is large distant objects actually disappearing below the horizon.

Then, why do large distant objects disappear into a haze?  Also, this is not a debate forum.  Stay out of Q&A if you do not have a flat Earth Question or Answer.  Thanks.

There is no Flat Earth Answer. The Round Earth answer is simply that large distant objects such as the shoreline dissappear from view before they disappear from view into a haze. The lower the vantage point of the observer is, the sooner they begin to disappear from view. Then the view of the coast begins to disappear...first the shore line then the tops of the mountains as the ship proceeds from the coast. The view then repeats as the ship nears another port...first the tops of the mountains and finally the shore line. This is just the way it is in actuality. Ask anyone who has ever been to the sea. There are days at sea when the atmosphere is very clear and there is virtually no haze.(Of course it's not the "atmoplane", that is. LOL)

The distance that an observer can see depends on the height of the observer. It would make no difference on a flat earth. If the earth was flat, why would there be any need for crow's nests for lookouts on ships ?

Reality seems to be a lost cause for the FE's.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 08:52:20 PM by Googleotomy »
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Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !
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hoppy

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2015, 09:09:00 PM »
Quote from: Mainframes on February 16, 2015, 04:51:06 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on February 16, 2015, 04:38:55 AM
The atmosphere in your horizontal view is much thicker than your vertical. The atmosphere gets less dense the higher it goes.

Think of it like this. Imagine you're looking through thick glass sheets along the horizontal path. One after the other, all the same thickness. Soon it will become translucent and then opaque to your vision.

Now imagine glass stacked vertically but this time the stack is a thick sheet follwed by a slightly less thick sheet and so on and so on until it's a paper thin sheet of glass.
You can see airplanes disappear while they are far above the horizon. Visual accuity is lost over distance. The same thing happens to mountains and countries over distance.

If this is the case then we would see large distant objects disappearing into a haze, but what we actually see is large distant objects actually disappearing below the horizon. Why is this?

(edited to please forum police)
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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2015, 05:52:45 AM »
Quote from: kman on February 16, 2015, 07:46:56 PM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: kman on February 16, 2015, 08:38:46 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 07:53:17 AM
and provide their own light. the mountains do not.

Please explain to us how the moon provides it's own light
it... provides... light


How? The moon is a big chunk of rock. Rocks don't glow. They don't produce light. Please explain how this works instead of just repeating your original bullshit claim. And maybe take a sec to consider the fact that you might not be a smarter then everyone.
think for yourself, the moon is not what the liars at nasa have told you. it's like the sun.
you're right, rocks don't glow. shine a flashlight on a rock, it doesn't magically shine back.

maybe you should consider that scientists are out for money. why do you follow them blindly when common sense shows that they are wrong? rocks don't glow. the moon is not a rock.
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sceptimatic

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2015, 05:59:08 AM »
Why people think a cement like coloured rock can float about in space by magical gravity and actually reflect light like a beacon is beyond me.
They even messed it up on the fake moon landings by making their so called sun a spotlight, illuminating virtually nothing, yet go and look at the moon on a night. It's lit up like a beacon.

It's staggers me, seriously how so called rational people can believe this total and utter piffle, it really does.

Why? because science says so, is their answer. Astounding.
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kman

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2015, 07:26:01 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 17, 2015, 05:52:45 AM
Quote from: kman on February 16, 2015, 07:46:56 PM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: kman on February 16, 2015, 08:38:46 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2015, 07:53:17 AM
and provide their own light. the mountains do not.

Please explain to us how the moon provides it's own light
it... provides... light


How? The moon is a big chunk of rock. Rocks don't glow. They don't produce light. Please explain how this works instead of just repeating your original bullshit claim. And maybe take a sec to consider the fact that you might not be a smarter then everyone.
think for yourself, the moon is not what the liars at nasa have told you. it's like the sun.
you're right, rocks don't glow. shine a flashlight on a rock, it doesn't magically shine back.

maybe you should consider that scientists are out for money. why do you follow them blindly when common sense shows that they are wrong? rocks don't glow. the moon is not a rock.

We know what the sun is made of through spectroscopy. We can also tell that the moon is not a giant ball of gas like the sun through the same method.
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2015, 07:42:58 AM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 17, 2015, 05:52:45 AM
rocks don't glow. shine a flashlight on a rock, it doesn't magically shine back.

Can you see it because you're shining a flashlight on it? No magic needed, just reflected light. Are you getting wrapped around the axle over the rather vague term "shine"? Among other definitions, it means "to be bright with reflected light".

Quote
maybe you should consider that scientists are out for money. why do you follow them blindly when common sense shows that they are wrong? rocks don't glow.

Most of us follow science because it actually works and can be used to produce useful techniques and things as well as explain everyday occurrences (like sunrise) and allow us to predict what is likely to happen (like roads getting icy in some conditions but not others).

Many scientists earn their salary by applying specialized knowledge to solve problems or discover new principles that can be put to use. The idea, popular here, that scientists are paid to "parrot what they've been told" is simply preposterous; radar wasn't invented by boffins sitting around a conference table saying "f = ma" and proclaiming Snell's Law and Ohm's Law. Get a grip.

Sometimes scientists are found to be wrong by other scientists producing convincing data that disproves an earlier idea. Plate tectonics completely overtaking previous tectonic models and revolutionizing geology is an excellent example from the last half of the 20th century. This is a strength of science, not a weakness.

Quote
the moon is not a rock.

Even if you're thoroughly convinced of this and say it here doesn't make it true. The Moon doesn't care what you think it is.
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ausGeoff

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2015, 07:51:29 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on February 16, 2015, 04:38:55 AM
The atmosphere in your horizontal view is much thicker than your vertical. The atmosphere gets less dense the higher it goes.

Q1:  What is the density of air at ground level versus its density at 50km altitude?

Q2:  What percentage of the original light source's photons are lost (do not reach your eyes) as the light travels through a 1km thickness of air?

Q3:  Assuming that they are lost (as you claim) are they absorbed by colliding with air molecules, or deflected and/or scattered by them?
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2015, 08:07:19 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on February 17, 2015, 05:59:08 AM
Why people think a cement like coloured rock can float about in space by magical gravity and actually reflect light like a beacon is beyond me.

Are you saying something the color of cement can't reflect light? Haven't you actually seen cement?

Gravity seems to explain very well why the Moon follows the path it does. No magic required. "Aethereal eddies", especially since there's no actual evidence that "the aether" exists at all or what its properties are, is better? Reflections off a dome has many problems. Both of these ideas fail when they need to explain why the Moon appears where it can be seen in the sky from different places at the same time.

Quote
They even messed it up on the fake moon landings by making their so called sun a spotlight, illuminating virtually nothing, yet go and look at the moon on a night. It's lit up like a beacon.

"Spotlight"? "Illuminating virtually nothing"? ???

Quote
It's staggers me, seriously how so called rational people can believe this total and utter piffle, it really does.

Why? because science says so, is their answer. Astounding.

You keep saying that. Rational people don't believe things because "science says so", they believe things that are useful and explanations that are shown to work, like sunrises. The ideas you bring here don't work. How's that scale model of the Ice Dome coming, by the way?
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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2015, 11:12:15 AM »
Quote from: Alpha2Omega on February 17, 2015, 07:42:58 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 17, 2015, 05:52:45 AM
rocks don't glow. shine a flashlight on a rock, it doesn't magically shine back.

Can you see it because you're shining a flashlight on it? No magic needed, just reflected light. Are you getting wrapped around the axle over the rather vague term "shine"? Among other definitions, it means "to be bright with reflected light".

Quote
maybe you should consider that scientists are out for money. why do you follow them blindly when common sense shows that they are wrong? rocks don't glow.

Most of us follow science because it actually works and can be used to produce useful techniques and things as well as explain everyday occurrences (like sunrise) and allow us to predict what is likely to happen (like roads getting icy in some conditions but not others).

Many scientists earn their salary by applying specialized knowledge to solve problems or discover new principles that can be put to use. The idea, popular here, that scientists are paid to "parrot what they've been told" is simply preposterous; radar wasn't invented by boffins sitting around a conference table saying "f = ma" and proclaiming Snell's Law and Ohm's Law. Get a grip.

Sometimes scientists are found to be wrong by other scientists producing convincing data that disproves an earlier idea. Plate tectonics completely overtaking previous tectonic models and revolutionizing geology is an excellent example from the last half of the 20th century. This is a strength of science, not a weakness.

Quote
the moon is not a rock.

Even if you're thoroughly convinced of this and say it here doesn't make it true. The Moon doesn't care what you think it is.
rocks. do. not. glow.
rocks can be visible. they do not glow.
appealing to science which changes all the time and is made up for cash shows you can't even think for yourself. do you seriously think rocks glow?
truth doesn't care what you believe, or what liars you appeal to.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2015, 11:25:01 AM »
Quote
rocks. do. not. glow.
Errm, you are the one claiming the moons glows.  Everyone else is just claiming it reflects light.  Make up your mind.
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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2015, 01:47:18 PM »
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on February 17, 2015, 11:12:15 AM
rocks. do. not. glow.
You can't categorically make this statement [well, you just did, so I guess you can, but you'd be wrong]. Many minerals (as in, constituents of rocks) fluoresce (that is, emit visible light, as in "glow") under UV radiation. Rocks can also glow if heated sufficiently. I recognize that you're questioning the Moon reflecting sunlight and quibbling about words, but your assertion above as a general principle

is. just. wrong.

Quote
rocks can be visible. they do not glow.
Before you asserted that shining a flashlight on a rock you couldn't see it because it didn't "shine back", that is, reflect light. This is wrong, too. See the definition for "shine" earlier. I forgot the attribution for that - it's definition number 2 here. Sorry about that.

Quote
appealing to science which changes all the time and is made up for cash shows you can't even think for yourself.
You're the one who claims science is "made up". I'm the one who uses it because it works and allows me to accomplish things. Science doesn't "change all the time", but new data will cause previously-accepted explanations to be revised or replaced if a new explanation better fits the new (and old) data. You make it sound like this is a bad thing.

Using a process that works to solve problems is not "thinking for myself"? I suggest others do the same because using something that works (like science and math) is better than using something (like superstition or idle conjecture that doesn't fit what we already know) that doesn't; don't you agree? If science were really "made up", don't you think the development of things like the computer you're using would be exceedingly unlikely?

Quote
do you seriously think rocks glow?
They can. I've seen it happen. See the first part of this post for some examples. But you really need to stop using less suitable words like "glow" and "shine" when "reflect light" is better.

Quote
truth doesn't care what you believe
That's why I use what's known to work, from what have been proven to be reliable sources, and/or verify things, if possible, before relying on them in critical situations. I recommend you (and everyone else) do the same.

Quote
or what liars you appeal to.
Newton, Kepler, Einstein, and their ilk have been pretty reliable so far. Sometimes their work is found not to be entirely correct when later data comes along (Newtonian vs Relativistic Mechanics, for instance), but that doesn't mean, say, Newton was "lying", nor does it mean that Classical (Newtonian) Mechanics is not perfectly useful for everyday-scale problems.  Most of the ideas from the actual liars and/or incompetents, like Mr. Rowbotham, get exposed and weeded out pretty quickly; avoid those.
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Vauxhall

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2015, 01:54:41 PM »
Certain rocks do glow, depending on what they're composed of. Calctie, for example. Which is what the moon is made of.
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kman

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2015, 02:07:12 PM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on February 17, 2015, 01:54:41 PM
Certain rocks do glow, depending on what they're composed of. Calctie, for example. Which is what the moon is made of.
you still haven't provided evidence to support your calcite moon hypothesis. Calcite only glows under UV light, so unless there's a big uv flashlight behind the moon, calcite is probably not responsible for its "glowing"
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mikeman7918

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2015, 04:07:57 PM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on February 17, 2015, 05:59:08 AM
Why people think a cement like coloured rock can float about in space by magical gravity and actually reflect light like a beacon is beyond me.
They even messed it up on the fake moon landings by making their so called sun a spotlight, illuminating virtually nothing, yet go and look at the moon on a night. It's lit up like a beacon.

It's staggers me, seriously how so called rational people can believe this total and utter piffle, it really does.

Why? because science says so, is their answer. Astounding.

The Moon reflects light just like every other object, if you hold a round rock in the sunlight then half of it gets illuminated by the Sun and if you look at it from different angles the rock can have phases, so if an ordinary rock can do it then why can't the Moon?  It does seem pretty bright but compare that to the brightness of the Sun and it doesn't seem so bright by comparison, you can even do math to determine the exact reflectivity of Moon rock and it turns out that it's not much more reflective then most rocks here on Earth.
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Vauxhall

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2015, 04:41:18 PM »
Quote from: kman on February 17, 2015, 02:07:12 PM
Quote from: Vauxhall on February 17, 2015, 01:54:41 PM
Certain rocks do glow, depending on what they're composed of. Calctie, for example. Which is what the moon is made of.
you still haven't provided evidence to support your calcite moon hypothesis. Calcite only glows under UV light, so unless there's a big uv flashlight behind the moon, calcite is probably not responsible for its "glowing"

Aether has UV properties, which is why the Moon appears glows at night.
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Dinosaur Neil

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Re: Perspective
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2015, 05:03:52 PM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on February 17, 2015, 04:41:18 PM
Quote from: kman on February 17, 2015, 02:07:12 PM
Quote from: Vauxhall on February 17, 2015, 01:54:41 PM
Certain rocks do glow, depending on what they're composed of. Calctie, for example. Which is what the moon is made of.
you still haven't provided evidence to support your calcite moon hypothesis. Calcite only glows under UV light, so unless there's a big uv flashlight behind the moon, calcite is probably not responsible for its "glowing"

Aether has UV properties, which is why the Moon appears glows at night.

Citation needed.
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