Gravity = Air Pressure

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #480 on: February 26, 2015, 09:40:09 AM »
Wait, wait. I am sure Jane will have a more clear response but you say this,

Quote
Now because we pick that bell jar up, we are only picking it up under equal pressure inside of it and outside, except we change that by pushing it into the atmosphere and compressing it from the deck, so instead of the base holding that pressure, it's transferred to your arm and hand and shoulder all the way to your feet.

why then if I were to rotate my torso, therefore swinging the arm with the jar, don't I feel the same pressure on the jar moving laterally?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 09:50:07 AM by Lemmiwinks »
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #481 on: February 26, 2015, 09:45:45 AM »
I don't know who to believe.

Scepti, why is JRowe saying this? I mean what he is saying makes sense, can you please elaborate why you are right and he is wrong?
Isn't idiot baiting against the law?
It would be if he did it properly. The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #482 on: February 26, 2015, 09:49:26 AM »
I don't know who to believe.

Scepti, why is JRowe saying this? I mean what he is saying makes sense, can you please elaborate why you are right and he is wrong?
Isn't idiot baiting against the law?
It would be if he did it properly. The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.

Oh, so you can't explain why his views are not correct and yours are?
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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Slemon

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #483 on: February 26, 2015, 09:51:09 AM »
The force that keeps everything on Earth as we see it and perceive it, is atmospheric pressure upon any dense object. That pressure is denpressure.

How does that even touch the question I asked, of why the resistance is primarily vertical and not horizontal?

Most of it you've said before, and I understand the principle. And I assume that, if the bell jar was placed sideways against something before the air was pushed out, you hold it would still remain stuck where it is?
You still haven't addressed my question, of why vertical and horizontal pressure differs the way it does.

The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.
Also, he said air doesn't exist. That's not thinking. Inflate a balloon, put it on scales, it's heavier than a deflated balloon. That's not opinion, that's willful ignorance.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #484 on: February 26, 2015, 09:52:07 AM »
Wait, wait. I am sure Jane will have a more clear response but you say this,

Quote
Now because we pick that bell jar up, we are only picking it up under equal pressure inside of it and outside, except we change that by pushing it into the atmosphere and compressing it from the deck, so instead of the base holding that pressure, it's transferred to your arm and hand and shoulder all the way to your feet.

why then if I were to rotate my torso, there fore swinging the arm with the jar, don't I feel the same pressure on the jar moving laterally?
Because fallacious corruption calms an effect by baring chasms which knock on wood and absord channels of programming which negates a mix of keline and casarene, rendering the top more middle than the nbottom piece.

Spinning on a valve deflector can only enhance the weight of a gerbil trapped inside a one sided box of no walls.
Basically tap water with flouride would be more than less of no taps at all if taps were not part of the whole vacuum type nothingness of no space in atmosphere.

When added together and subtracting the times of dividing, we get the square root of tree.
Basically try harder with your bullshit you clown. ;D

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #485 on: February 26, 2015, 09:56:34 AM »
The force that keeps everything on Earth as we see it and perceive it, is atmospheric pressure upon any dense object. That pressure is denpressure.

How does that even touch the question I asked, of why the resistance is primarily vertical and not horizontal?

Most of it you've said before, and I understand the principle. And I assume that, if the bell jar was placed sideways against something before the air was pushed out, you hold it would still remain stuck where it is?
You still haven't addressed my question, of why vertical and horizontal pressure differs the way it does.

The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.
Also, he said air doesn't exist. That's not thinking. Inflate a balloon, put it on scales, it's heavier than a deflated balloon. That's not opinion, that's willful ignorance.

think for yourself. if the weight of air that could be put into a tiny balloon could be measured we would be crushed by how huge you pretend the atmosphere is. leaves couldn't perk up, have you seen how delicate they are?
i notice you haven't responded to my actual argument either. obvious desperation.

when a balloon is inflated, more surface area presses down on the scale, so more of a reading is taken. it's a common flaw. plus, a little of human internals is put into the balloon when we blow, specks of what is inside our body, fluids and cells. they increase weight a little.
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On the sister site if you want to talk.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #486 on: February 26, 2015, 09:56:57 AM »
The force that keeps everything on Earth as we see it and perceive it, is atmospheric pressure upon any dense object. That pressure is denpressure.

How does that even touch the question I asked, of why the resistance is primarily vertical and not horizontal?

Most of it you've said before, and I understand the principle. And I assume that, if the bell jar was placed sideways against something before the air was pushed out, you hold it would still remain stuck where it is?
You still haven't addressed my question, of why vertical and horizontal pressure differs the way it does.

The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.
Also, he said air doesn't exist. That's not thinking. Inflate a balloon, put it on scales, it's heavier than a deflated balloon. That's not opinion, that's willful ignorance.
Ok Jane, that'll do for now. Nice chatting with you. We will call it a day on this. I can see where it's going. Trust is a major issue on here, you lost mine.

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Slemon

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #487 on: February 26, 2015, 09:58:01 AM »
Ok Jane, that'll do for now. Nice chatting with you. We will call it a day on this. I can see where it's going. Trust is a major issue on here, you lost mine.
Likewise. Have fun evading.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #488 on: February 26, 2015, 09:58:30 AM »
Wait, wait. I am sure Jane will have a more clear response but you say this,

Quote
Now because we pick that bell jar up, we are only picking it up under equal pressure inside of it and outside, except we change that by pushing it into the atmosphere and compressing it from the deck, so instead of the base holding that pressure, it's transferred to your arm and hand and shoulder all the way to your feet.

why then if I were to rotate my torso, there fore swinging the arm with the jar, don't I feel the same pressure on the jar moving laterally?
Because fallacious corruption calms an effect by baring chasms which knock on wood and absord channels of programming which negates a mix of keline and casarene, rendering the top more middle than the nbottom piece.

Spinning on a valve deflector can only enhance the weight of a gerbil trapped inside a one sided box of no walls.
Basically tap water with flouride would be more than less of no taps at all if taps were not part of the whole vacuum type nothingness of no space in atmosphere.

When added together and subtracting the times of dividing, we get the square root of tree.
Basically try harder with your bullshit you clown. ;D

But, that was a legitimate question, is it just that you can't answer it within your theory that you then treated me like that?
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #489 on: February 26, 2015, 10:00:21 AM »
Wait, wait. I am sure Jane will have a more clear response but you say this,

Quote
Now because we pick that bell jar up, we are only picking it up under equal pressure inside of it and outside, except we change that by pushing it into the atmosphere and compressing it from the deck, so instead of the base holding that pressure, it's transferred to your arm and hand and shoulder all the way to your feet.

why then if I were to rotate my torso, there fore swinging the arm with the jar, don't I feel the same pressure on the jar moving laterally?
Because fallacious corruption calms an effect by baring chasms which knock on wood and absord channels of programming which negates a mix of keline and casarene, rendering the top more middle than the nbottom piece.

Spinning on a valve deflector can only enhance the weight of a gerbil trapped inside a one sided box of no walls.
Basically tap water with flouride would be more than less of no taps at all if taps were not part of the whole vacuum type nothingness of no space in atmosphere.

When added together and subtracting the times of dividing, we get the square root of tree.
Basically try harder with your bullshit you clown. ;D

But, that was a legitimate question, is it just that you can't answer it within your theory that you then treated me like that?
No, not at all. I treat you like that because I think you're an internet prick. I basically have no time for people like you. You're a complete and total bell end and as thick as shit. ;)

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MattiNasa

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #490 on: February 26, 2015, 10:06:12 AM »
I don't know who to believe.

Scepti, why is JRowe saying this? I mean what he is saying makes sense, can you please elaborate why you are right and he is wrong?
Isn't idiot baiting against the law?
It would be if he did it properly. The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.

Just out of the curiosity, have you actually get to know or read any of those mainstream books you are so keen to abandon? Shouldn't you've been poking holes to theories that you think that sucks and are no good. Prove them wrong. Collapse the foundations of elementary physics and it's guaranteed that you will get to meet King of Sweden, receive a gold medal and million bucks.

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Lemmiwinks

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #491 on: February 26, 2015, 10:07:50 AM »
Wait, wait. I am sure Jane will have a more clear response but you say this,

Quote
Now because we pick that bell jar up, we are only picking it up under equal pressure inside of it and outside, except we change that by pushing it into the atmosphere and compressing it from the deck, so instead of the base holding that pressure, it's transferred to your arm and hand and shoulder all the way to your feet.

why then if I were to rotate my torso, there fore swinging the arm with the jar, don't I feel the same pressure on the jar moving laterally?
Because fallacious corruption calms an effect by baring chasms which knock on wood and absord channels of programming which negates a mix of keline and casarene, rendering the top more middle than the nbottom piece.

Spinning on a valve deflector can only enhance the weight of a gerbil trapped inside a one sided box of no walls.
Basically tap water with flouride would be more than less of no taps at all if taps were not part of the whole vacuum type nothingness of no space in atmosphere.

When added together and subtracting the times of dividing, we get the square root of tree.
Basically try harder with your bullshit you clown. ;D

But, that was a legitimate question, is it just that you can't answer it within your theory that you then treated me like that?
No, not at all. I treat you like that because I think you're an internet prick. I basically have no time for people like you. You're a complete and total bell end and as thick as shit. ;)

So, you didn't answer because you can't. Gotcha.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #492 on: February 26, 2015, 10:09:19 AM »
I don't know who to believe.

Scepti, why is JRowe saying this? I mean what he is saying makes sense, can you please elaborate why you are right and he is wrong?
Isn't idiot baiting against the law?
It would be if he did it properly. The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.

Just out of the curiosity, have you actually get to know or read any of those mainstream books you are so keen to abandon? Shouldn't you've been poking holes to theories that you think that sucks and are no good. Prove them wrong. Collapse the foundations of elementary physics and it's guaranteed that you will get to meet King of Sweden, receive a gold medal and million bucks.
You tell me what gravity is and I'll start listening.

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neimoka

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #493 on: February 26, 2015, 11:26:03 AM »
I'm pretty sure you never explained exactly how it was flawed. It had a weight on a scale in a vacuum chamber and the reading didn't change as you had predicted and that was the end of it. If you saw something in there going wrong you should have just said what it is.

Air pressure measurements in general are something I could do, I have access to such instruments. You have previously shown zero cooperation for proposed measurements of denpressure, what's with the change of heart? You know I could still measure how much more pressure there is by the the surface of different objects, to see how it changes by how much they weigh. Or how much more fluid a 10cc piece of steel displaces than a 10cc piece of aluminium. I'm extremely skeptical  of if there's any point in doing these tests though, having seen how well you received the vacuum chamber test.
Don't do it for me. Do it for yourself. Surely you want to find the truth don't you?
You don't need me for that. I'm just aiding you in doing it. If like Sokarul you are dishonest then you are only being dishonest with yourself.
Do the experiments for you and see how many you can perform that nails it one way or the other for you.
I have handled these instruments so much over the years that I have no need to prove these things for my self, from my experience I already know what the results are and they are not in favor of denpressure. I would only have been doing the experiments for added entertainment on these 'debates'.  Seeing that testing how your 'theory' matches with reality is of no interest to you, there's little point.

I also notice that you have not expanded on exactly how the vacuum chamber experiment was flawed.

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mikeman7918

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #494 on: February 26, 2015, 11:31:08 AM »
I don't know who to believe.

Scepti, why is JRowe saying this? I mean what he is saying makes sense, can you please elaborate why you are right and he is wrong?
Isn't idiot baiting against the law?
It would be if he did it properly. The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.

Just out of the curiosity, have you actually get to know or read any of those mainstream books you are so keen to abandon? Shouldn't you've been poking holes to theories that you think that sucks and are no good. Prove them wrong. Collapse the foundations of elementary physics and it's guaranteed that you will get to meet King of Sweden, receive a gold medal and million bucks.
You tell me what gravity is and I'll start listening.

There is also no explenation for why we need to sleep and what magnetism is, are those things fake too?
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #495 on: February 26, 2015, 12:01:55 PM »
I don't know who to believe.

Scepti, why is JRowe saying this? I mean what he is saying makes sense, can you please elaborate why you are right and he is wrong?
Isn't idiot baiting against the law?
It would be if he did it properly. The mere fact is, skeptic is entitled to his opinion just as everyone is. I might not agree with it but at least he's thinking and not working from mainstream text books.

Just out of the curiosity, have you actually get to know or read any of those mainstream books you are so keen to abandon? Shouldn't you've been poking holes to theories that you think that sucks and are no good. Prove them wrong. Collapse the foundations of elementary physics and it's guaranteed that you will get to meet King of Sweden, receive a gold medal and million bucks.
You tell me what gravity is and I'll start listening.

There is also no explenation for why we need to sleep and what magnetism is, are those things fake too?
Wait a minute. You asked me for my explanations. I gave them. They don't cut it with you people. Fair enough. So my turn to ask what gravity is.
Now the best you can come up with is there is no explanation.

Seriously?
"It's gravity it's gravity, it's gravity, we can measure it, we know planets work by it, we see mass attracting mass." we hear them shout. "So what is it?" I shout.

"We don't know what it is - it just is and that's all you need to know." Is their answer.

Well let me tell you something. If you people rely on something that cannot be explained, then who are the real losers. A clue, it's not those that question this shit.

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Slemon

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #496 on: February 26, 2015, 12:28:04 PM »
"It's gravity it's gravity, it's gravity, we can measure it, we know planets work by it, we see mass attracting mass." we hear them shout. "So what is it?" I shout.

"We don't know what it is - it just is and that's all you need to know." Is their answer.

Well let me tell you something. If you people rely on something that cannot be explained, then who are the real losers. A clue, it's not those that question this shit.

Do you know something that's learnt by children? It's that asking 'why' enough times eventually ends up with 'it just is' as an answer. It has to, that's just how explanations work. Eventually you get to questioning something so fundamental that you can only respond with "That's just how things are!"
Try it. Why does denpressure exist? Compression of air molecules? Why do air molecules exist? Why did that happen? Why did...

Further, every detail of something does not need to be known, for it to be known that something exists. Case in point: magnetism. Are you going to deny that exists, and suppose some denattraction that draws certain substances towards each other, or do you accept that the evidence is undeniable?
We know gravity exists. Cavendish, for example, is evidence. Your alternative proposal has, not only no evidence in support of it, but is riddled with inconsistencies that you persistently refuse to explain: when they're brought up, you end the conversation. And your only argument against gravity is "But no pull!"
At best that's a semantic argument. At worst, a dramatic oversimplification: as you yourself have stated, we don't know every detail of how gravity works, why do you assume that the one thing we know for certain is that it's a pull? 'Pull' is an entirely valid description of what happens as far as comprehension goes, the same way 'attracted' is to describe magnetism: but that doesn't mean it's physically true, no one proposes magnets feel randy. So not only are you wildly contradictory on yet another count, but you have nothing in support of anything you've said.
Even if your argument against pull-forces is true (something you've offered nothing in support of, save insistence), you can't apply it to gravity until you concede that we know some rather fundamental facts about it: such as the very 'what' you're saying we don't know.

Take, for example, your bell jar case. You say a pump pushes air out. How, exactly, can that be modeled as a push? Does the pump reach out to hug the air molecules, and push from the other side? Does it whisper to get more distant molecules to come closer, and push more that way? Even if we suppose your expanding bubble-air, how exactly can something be drawn closer without going to the other side and pushing?
You don't even need a bell jar. Purse your lips and breathe in. Real impressive 'pushing' of air then.

The real losers are those who are so arrogant to assume that they, and they alone, are able to part the veil and see everything clearly enough to do away with centuries of progress and corroboration and testing overnight.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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mikeman7918

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #497 on: February 26, 2015, 02:51:26 PM »
Take, for example, your bell jar case. You say a pump pushes air out. How, exactly, can that be modeled as a push? Does the pump reach out to hug the air molecules, and push from the other side? Does it whisper to get more distant molecules to come closer, and push more that way? Even if we suppose your expanding bubble-air, how exactly can something be drawn closer without going to the other side and pushing?

Well technically scepti is right about this.  A pump just maintains a low pressure environment inside of it by constantly pumping air out and then because of how molecules bounce around like they do there are less molecules hitting from the low pressure side then from the high pressure side and so the molecules feel a net force in the direction of the lower pressure area.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Slemon

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #498 on: February 26, 2015, 02:59:04 PM »
Take, for example, your bell jar case. You say a pump pushes air out. How, exactly, can that be modeled as a push? Does the pump reach out to hug the air molecules, and push from the other side? Does it whisper to get more distant molecules to come closer, and push more that way? Even if we suppose your expanding bubble-air, how exactly can something be drawn closer without going to the other side and pushing?

Well technically scepti is right about this.  A pump just maintains a low pressure environment inside of it by constantly pumping air out and then because of how molecules bounce around like they do there are less molecules hitting from the low pressure side then from the high pressure side and so the molecules feel a net force in the direction of the lower pressure area.
True, but I gave another analogy: the main point of the pump case was to show how very semantics-based the pull/push argument is. The movement is towards a certain thing, because of said thing: which is very much like a pull, yet the motion can be treated as a push because...
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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mikeman7918

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #499 on: February 26, 2015, 03:07:23 PM »
Take, for example, your bell jar case. You say a pump pushes air out. How, exactly, can that be modeled as a push? Does the pump reach out to hug the air molecules, and push from the other side? Does it whisper to get more distant molecules to come closer, and push more that way? Even if we suppose your expanding bubble-air, how exactly can something be drawn closer without going to the other side and pushing?

Well technically scepti is right about this.  A pump just maintains a low pressure environment inside of it by constantly pumping air out and then because of how molecules bounce around like they do there are less molecules hitting from the low pressure side then from the high pressure side and so the molecules feel a net force in the direction of the lower pressure area.
True, but I gave another analogy: the main point of the pump case was to show how very semantics-based the pull/push argument is. The movement is towards a certain thing, because of said thing: which is very much like a pull, yet the motion can be treated as a push because...

Good point.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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FETlolcakes

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #500 on: February 26, 2015, 06:00:57 PM »
You're a complete and total bell end and as thick as shit. ;)

Now now, Scepti, remember what I said about projecting?  :D :D :-*

i notice you haven't responded to my actual argument either. obvious desperation.

The reason no one has responded to your, err, argument is because it contained nothing substantive at all. Your jabbering amounts to nothing more than circular reasoning which, funnily enough, is exactly the same garbage scepti shovels out.

I wonder if you realise that declarative statements don't actually constitute evidence of any kind? You seem to think that, just because you declare something as true and declare the accepted model as false, that it somehow constitutes an argument. It doesn't. You haven't shifted the burden of proof. You haven't challenged the status quo. You haven't even made a rebuttal of anything.

The same applies to you, scepti.

You tell me what gravity is and I'll start listening.

It doesn't work that way, see above.

Secondly, gravity has been to explained to you, dozens of times in dozens of different ways and yet you still come back to this same old question. Once again, something that is measurable and mathematically predictable doesn't require your understanding of it to be true. It's completely independent of that. That seems axiomatic to everyone but you because you seem to think that, if I don't understand something, it cannot be true. Frankly, that is a whole new level of narcissism there.

Both of you clowns seem to think that throwing out hundreds (if not thousands) of years of scientific advancement and understanding is essential to be 'open minded'. Needless to say but it doesn't. It just makes you laughably idiotic.

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ausGeoff

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Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #501 on: February 27, 2015, 10:45:39 PM »
I treat you like that because I think you're an internet prick. I basically have no time for people like you. You're a complete and total bell end and as thick as shit.

Just as well sceptimatic is a favourite of the moderators LOL.

A series of comments like this that he posts in response to every second post goes totally unremarked upon by any moderator.  Were a round earther to post this sort of off-topic, low content, insulting drivel then he'd be slapped with a warning quicker than you can say jroa or Pongo.

This is another example—of the numerous—ineffective moderation standards applied (or not applied) to members of these forums.  Flat earthers can say anything that tickles their fancy, but if a round earther treads where angels fear to tread, then it's an instant slap on the wrist... or worse.

And there's no point posting any complaints in the Suggestions & Concerns forum;  if you're a round earther you'll simply be put off with some inconsequential non-answer, or a thinly-veiled insult for daring to question anything.

And it's no surprise that this thread has been allowed to drift waaay off topic over the course of numerous posts, with sceptimatic obviously being the main offender.

His very last comment here?  "Well let me tell you something. If you people rely on something that cannot be explained, then who are the real losers. A clue, it's not those that question this shit".

I rest my case.   ::)