Gravity = Air Pressure

  • 501 Replies
  • 125609 Views
*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 12330
  • +1/-1
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #450 on: February 26, 2015, 05:37:10 AM »
Ok no problem. I tried but I can see you resisting. We'll leave it at that. Fair enough for trying.
I'm not going to accept something as possible when it contradicts what we can test and observe.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #451 on: February 26, 2015, 05:40:00 AM »
Ok no problem. I tried but I can see you resisting. We'll leave it at that. Fair enough for trying.
I'm not going to accept something as possible when it contradicts what we can test and observe.
That's the beauty. You don't observe anything. You only observe what you're told in text books with pictures as back up.

I'll give you your due. You did attempt to try but the last post you gave me told me it was pointless carrying on explaining to you.
It's hard for a person who's had their heads rammed into science books to accept basic explanations. I accept that. Let's just leave it at that and you go your way and I'll go mine.

?

Ofthefree

  • 16
  • +0/-0
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #452 on: February 26, 2015, 05:41:06 AM »
Hey, some theory about gravity in a flat earth came to my mind this days, mixing all with Scripture information, and imagination.

The earth is like inside of a "bubble" (firmament).
The Creator is spirit, His throne is out and right in the top of this bubble... He is Light, He is the real Sun.
Spirit don't mix with matter, like water don't mix with oil.(That's why there's a battle with the flesh).
He is a radianting Spirit, so His energy repells and destroys matter all "around" Him.
Matter goes in the direction of darkness, the void or the abyss (the denser a object is, more quickly he goes to the abyss).
So He made His creation like this, He made a "bubble" structure (firmament) and manipulated the matter inside, creating enviroment and life (Life as we know, material bodys can not survive in His presence out of the firmament).
As His Spirit goes inside and across everything, He holds this "heavy bubble" close to him so it won't "fall" to the great abyss.
Inside of the "bubble" His reppeling forces continues to exist, and thats why the denser things goes to the bottom of the firmament and the less dense material things stay in the high altitudes. (The rocks, the water, the bodys and the gases)It's like a degradee of densitys.
So our bodys are not pulled into the ground as we thought, but we are being pushed from above. So the force we call gravity, is in reality a force that comes straight from Heaven. And that force indicates what is up or down.
The Creator is the One who says what is up or down to us.
"Up" is where His Throne is placed, and He is the source of a literal strong repelling force of material things.
Gravity is directly related to the Creator, and that's why material science has problems with it. 

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #453 on: February 26, 2015, 05:44:41 AM »
Hey, some theory about gravity in a flat earth came to my mind this days, mixing all with Scripture information, and imagination.

The earth is like inside of a "bubble" (firmament).
The Creator is spirit, His throne is out and right in the top of this bubble... He is Light, He is the real Sun.
Spirit don't mix with matter, like water don't mix with oil.(That's why there's a battle with the flesh).
He is a radianting Spirit, so His energy repells and destroys matter all "around" Him.
Matter goes in the direction of darkness, the void or the abyss (the denser a object is, more quickly he goes to the abyss).
So He made His creation like this, He made a "bubble" structure (firmament) and manipulated the matter inside, creating enviroment and life (Life as we know, material bodys can not survive in His presence out of the firmament).
As His Spirit goes inside and across everything, He holds this "heavy bubble" close to him so it won't "fall" to the great abyss.
Inside of the "bubble" His reppeling forces continues to exist, and thats why the denser things goes to the bottom of the firmament and the less dense material things stay in the high altitudes. (The rocks, the water, the bodys and the gases)It's like a degradee of densitys.
So our bodys are not pulled into the ground as we thought, but we are being pushed from above. So the force we call gravity, is in reality a force that comes straight from Heaven. And that force indicates what is up or down.
The Creator is the One who says what is up or down to us.
"Up" is where His Throne is placed, and He is the source of a literal strong repelling force of material things.
Gravity is directly related to the Creator, and that's why material science has problems with it.
I respect your thoughts on your god. I personally want to reason this  without that aid.
Having said that. At least you are getting the fact that there is no pulling force and it is all push against density.

?

inquisitive

  • 5108
  • +0/-0
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #454 on: February 26, 2015, 05:49:33 AM »
This means the weight of an object varies depending on the atmospheric pressure.
Of course.
Atmospheric pressure keeps changing, why not the weight of a bag of sugar?
I'm also wasting my time explaining anything to you, also.
Explain. Pressure changes. Fact. Weight does not. Fact.

Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #455 on: February 26, 2015, 05:58:21 AM »
Ok no problem. I tried but I can see you resisting. We'll leave it at that. Fair enough for trying.
I'm not going to accept something as possible when it contradicts what we can test and observe.
That's the beauty. You don't observe anything. You only observe what you're told in text books with pictures as back up.

I'll give you your due. You did attempt to try but the last post you gave me told me it was pointless carrying on explaining to you.
It's hard for a person who's had their heads rammed into science books to accept basic explanations. I accept that. Let's just leave it at that and you go your way and I'll go mine.

I too have been trying to work out Denpressure and fair doo's to BiJane, she's continued to try and deep dive into Denpressure. I've enjoyed following the thread but, to sum it all up, the above comment means you don't have an explanation for why, air rushes it around you when moving in a horizontal plane, but doesn't in a vertical plane. What applies in one should apply in the other. So what force / mechanism of Denpressure means air will rush around you in the horizontal, but not in the vertical.

You say compression above pushes you back down and basically, because you're not taking another step, there's a lack on energy to continue the upward motion so you return to earth. So why does this not translate to the walk up the wall analogy? I'd be able to take another step and transfer more energy.

* I think that's a fair summary of where we are at.


*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #456 on: February 26, 2015, 06:08:52 AM »
This means the weight of an object varies depending on the atmospheric pressure.
Of course.
Atmospheric pressure keeps changing, why not the weight of a bag of sugar?
I'm also wasting my time explaining anything to you, also.
Explain. Pressure changes. Fact. Weight does not. Fact.
You probably just think it all faces south. I can't explain anything to you, seriously.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #457 on: February 26, 2015, 06:11:50 AM »
Ok no problem. I tried but I can see you resisting. We'll leave it at that. Fair enough for trying.
I'm not going to accept something as possible when it contradicts what we can test and observe.
That's the beauty. You don't observe anything. You only observe what you're told in text books with pictures as back up.

I'll give you your due. You did attempt to try but the last post you gave me told me it was pointless carrying on explaining to you.
It's hard for a person who's had their heads rammed into science books to accept basic explanations. I accept that. Let's just leave it at that and you go your way and I'll go mine.

I too have been trying to work out Denpressure and fair doo's to BiJane, she's continued to try and deep dive into Denpressure. I've enjoyed following the thread but, to sum it all up, the above comment means you don't have an explanation for why, air rushes it around you when moving in a horizontal plane, but doesn't in a vertical plane. What applies in one should apply in the other. So what force / mechanism of Denpressure means air will rush around you in the horizontal, but not in the vertical.

You say compression above pushes you back down and basically, because you're not taking another step, there's a lack on energy to continue the upward motion so you return to earth. So why does this not translate to the walk up the wall analogy? I'd be able to take another step and transfer more energy.

* I think that's a fair summary of where we are at.
The only fair summary is you have not grasped what I've just spent a lot of time explaining. You can't seem to understand that I've explained all of what you're going on about. You simply cannot see it or deliberately choose not to.

Your previous post shows me what you're all about.

Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #458 on: February 26, 2015, 06:15:25 AM »
Ok no problem. I tried but I can see you resisting. We'll leave it at that. Fair enough for trying.
I'm not going to accept something as possible when it contradicts what we can test and observe.
That's the beauty. You don't observe anything. You only observe what you're told in text books with pictures as back up.

I'll give you your due. You did attempt to try but the last post you gave me told me it was pointless carrying on explaining to you.
It's hard for a person who's had their heads rammed into science books to accept basic explanations. I accept that. Let's just leave it at that and you go your way and I'll go mine.

I too have been trying to work out Denpressure and fair doo's to BiJane, she's continued to try and deep dive into Denpressure. I've enjoyed following the thread but, to sum it all up, the above comment means you don't have an explanation for why, air rushes it around you when moving in a horizontal plane, but doesn't in a vertical plane. What applies in one should apply in the other. So what force / mechanism of Denpressure means air will rush around you in the horizontal, but not in the vertical.

You say compression above pushes you back down and basically, because you're not taking another step, there's a lack on energy to continue the upward motion so you return to earth. So why does this not translate to the walk up the wall analogy? I'd be able to take another step and transfer more energy.

* I think that's a fair summary of where we are at.
The only fair summary is you have not grasped what I've just spent a lot of time explaining. You can't seem to understand that I've explained all of what you're going on about. You simply cannot see it or deliberately choose not to.

Your previous post shows me what you're all about.


And again, I ask, why can I not transfer energy in the vertical and therefore walk up walls? Why does Denpressure not allow this. What property of Denpressure means that it will continue to allow me to transfer energy from ground to air in the horizontal, but not from wall to air in the vertical? This is the only thing I am missing from your theory. I'm on the cusp of enlightenment.

editted for typo's

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #459 on: February 26, 2015, 06:17:05 AM »
Ok no problem. I tried but I can see you resisting. We'll leave it at that. Fair enough for trying.
I'm not going to accept something as possible when it contradicts what we can test and observe.
That's the beauty. You don't observe anything. You only observe what you're told in text books with pictures as back up.

I'll give you your due. You did attempt to try but the last post you gave me told me it was pointless carrying on explaining to you.
It's hard for a person who's had their heads rammed into science books to accept basic explanations. I accept that. Let's just leave it at that and you go your way and I'll go mine.

I too have been trying to work out Denpressure and fair doo's to BiJane, she's continued to try and deep dive into Denpressure. I've enjoyed following the thread but, to sum it all up, the above comment means you don't have an explanation for why, air rushes it around you when moving in a horizontal plane, but doesn't in a vertical plane. What applies in one should apply in the other. So what force / mechanism of Denpressure means air will rush around you in the horizontal, but not in the vertical.

You say compression above pushes you back down and basically, because you're not taking another step, there's a lack on energy to continue the upward motion so you return to earth. So why does this not translate to the walk up the wall analogy? I'd be able to take another step and transfer more energy.

* I think that's a fair summary of where we are at.
The only fair summary is you have not grasped what I've just spent a lot of time explaining. You can't seem to understand that I've explained all of what you're going on about. You simply cannot see it or deliberately choose not to.

Your previous post shows me what you're all about.


And again, I ask, why can I not transfer energy in the vertical and therefore walk up walls? Why does Denpressure not allow this. What propertyof Denpressure mean that it will continue to allow me to transfer energy from ground to air in the horizontal, but not from wall to air in the vertical? This is the only thing I am missing from your theory. I'm on the cusp of enlightenment.
I suggest you re-read and absorb what I've said. I'm not going to explain it to you again.

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 12330
  • +1/-1
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #460 on: February 26, 2015, 06:20:27 AM »
I suggest you re-read and absorb what I've said. I'm not going to explain it to you again.
Here's the thing: you haven't explained it once. The fact more than one of us is asking the same question seems evidence of that. I read your posts slowly, genuinely tried to understand just what you were saying, and the only explanations you've given for how pressure can tell the difference between vertical and horizontal motion is either grounded in a downwards force, or presupposition.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #461 on: February 26, 2015, 06:23:03 AM »
Ok no problem. I tried but I can see you resisting. We'll leave it at that. Fair enough for trying.
I'm not going to accept something as possible when it contradicts what we can test and observe.
That's the beauty. You don't observe anything. You only observe what you're told in text books with pictures as back up.

I'll give you your due. You did attempt to try but the last post you gave me told me it was pointless carrying on explaining to you.
It's hard for a person who's had their heads rammed into science books to accept basic explanations. I accept that. Let's just leave it at that and you go your way and I'll go mine.

I too have been trying to work out Denpressure and fair doo's to BiJane, she's continued to try and deep dive into Denpressure. I've enjoyed following the thread but, to sum it all up, the above comment means you don't have an explanation for why, air rushes it around you when moving in a horizontal plane, but doesn't in a vertical plane. What applies in one should apply in the other. So what force / mechanism of Denpressure means air will rush around you in the horizontal, but not in the vertical.

You say compression above pushes you back down and basically, because you're not taking another step, there's a lack on energy to continue the upward motion so you return to earth. So why does this not translate to the walk up the wall analogy? I'd be able to take another step and transfer more energy.

* I think that's a fair summary of where we are at.
The only fair summary is you have not grasped what I've just spent a lot of time explaining. You can't seem to understand that I've explained all of what you're going on about. You simply cannot see it or deliberately choose not to.

Your previous post shows me what you're all about.


And again, I ask, why can I not transfer energy in the vertical and therefore walk up walls? Why does Denpressure not allow this. What propertyof Denpressure mean that it will continue to allow me to transfer energy from ground to air in the horizontal, but not from wall to air in the vertical? This is the only thing I am missing from your theory. I'm on the cusp of enlightenment.
I suggest you re-read and absorb what I've said. I'm not going to explain it to you again.

You've failed to explain it though. Simply put, there's several people here all waiting for an answer to this one point. So I ask again, what property of Denpressure signifies down and therefore stops transfer of energy in the vertical?

I get the bit about jumping, compressing, no more energy left so compression pushes me back down. I get that. I'm happy with that.
I get that I can walk without being pushed back because as I walk I transfer energy from the group so instead of being pushed back, air simply moves around me and pushes me along.
What I don't understand is why I can't flip this on it's side and walk up a wall. I will walk, energy will transfer from wall to air around me and the air should rush around me a push me along or, in this case, up.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #462 on: February 26, 2015, 06:28:46 AM »
I suggest you re-read and absorb what I've said. I'm not going to explain it to you again.
Here's the thing: you haven't explained it once. The fact more than one of us is asking the same question seems evidence of that. I read your posts slowly, genuinely tried to understand just what you were saying, and the only explanations you've given for how pressure can tell the difference between vertical and horizontal motion is either grounded in a downwards force, or presupposition.
Just tell me what you don't get about a stacked atmosphere and a dense mass pushing into it.

?

inquisitive

  • 5108
  • +0/-0
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #463 on: February 26, 2015, 06:35:39 AM »
This means the weight of an object varies depending on the atmospheric pressure.
Of course.
Atmospheric pressure keeps changing, why not the weight of a bag of sugar?
I'm also wasting my time explaining anything to you, also.
Explain. Pressure changes. Fact. Weight does not. Fact.
You probably just think it all faces south. I can't explain anything to you, seriously.
True, you can't explain anything.  Try again to explain why weight varies with pressure.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #464 on: February 26, 2015, 06:37:53 AM »
What I don't understand is why I can't flip this on it's side and walk up a wall. I will walk, energy will transfer from wall to air around me and the air should rush around me a push me along or, in this case, up.
You wall is vertical. Your wall s under pressure in exactly the same way you are, at rest. It's balanced by pushing into the atmosphere and forcing that atmosphere down each side of it to grip it in a balanced state. I'm sure you understand this given what you've just said.

Ok, you also understand that you as a person are stood upright. Your mass is pushing vertically and compressing the air above you, like the wall is.
The only way you can push into that atmosphere and keep resistant to it is by using your feet as a barrier to the ground and the ground as a stronger barrier to your whole dense mass.

If you try to walk up a wall, you change your whole balance against that atmosphere. You have to angle back and in doing so you change the whole balance of atmosphere acting on your body so it now pushes back onto your body in an angled motion, meaning you are going to be compressed down to the floor by having no floor leverage until you are flat on your back.

As I said before. It's not about the atmosphere knowing when to do anything. It's reliant on any mass and density of that mass pushing into it.

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 12330
  • +1/-1
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #465 on: February 26, 2015, 06:43:51 AM »
Just tell me what you don't get about a stacked atmosphere and a dense mass pushing into it.
Why does it only stack vertically? It's as simple as that. There is no difference between up and down and left and forwards under your proposal, air should stack just as much against vertical walls than up from the horizontal ground.
Vertical and horizontal movement should have comparable levels of difficulty, with your proposed stack and compression. Whether this means we can walk up walls, or that we can't walk along the ground, doesn't matter: neither occurs.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #466 on: February 26, 2015, 06:49:35 AM »
Just tell me what you don't get about a stacked atmosphere and a dense mass pushing into it.
Why does it only stack vertically? It's as simple as that. There is no difference between up and down and left and forwards under your proposal, air should stack just as much against vertical walls than up from the horizontal ground.
Vertical and horizontal movement should have comparable levels of difficulty, with your proposed stack and compression. Whether this means we can walk up walls, or that we can't walk along the ground, doesn't matter: neither occurs.
If I draw you a simplistic diagram in paint, will you look at it as an analogy of the basic and try to understand what I'm saying or will you immediately go into ignorant mode. I need to know this before I waste a bit of time.

*

Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • +0/-0
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #467 on: February 26, 2015, 07:26:56 AM »
Just tell me what you don't get about a stacked atmosphere and a dense mass pushing into it.
Why does it only stack vertically? It's as simple as that. There is no difference between up and down and left and forwards under your proposal, air should stack just as much against vertical walls than up from the horizontal ground.
Vertical and horizontal movement should have comparable levels of difficulty, with your proposed stack and compression. Whether this means we can walk up walls, or that we can't walk along the ground, doesn't matter: neither occurs.
If I draw you a simplistic diagram in paint, will you look at it as an analogy of the basic and try to understand what I'm saying or will you immediately go into ignorant mode. I need to know this before I waste a bit of time.

Will you accept constructive criticism as part of "try[ing] to understand what you are saying"? Or when we point out the inevitable errors of your theory will you throw a hissy fit and stomp off?
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

?

BJ1234

  • 1931
  • +0/-0
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #468 on: February 26, 2015, 07:45:55 AM »
What I don't understand is why I can't flip this on it's side and walk up a wall. I will walk, energy will transfer from wall to air around me and the air should rush around me a push me along or, in this case, up.
You wall is vertical. Your wall s under pressure in exactly the same way you are, at rest. It's balanced by pushing into the atmosphere and forcing that atmosphere down each side of it to grip it in a balanced state. I'm sure you understand this given what you've just said.

Ok, you also understand that you as a person are stood upright. Your mass is pushing vertically and compressing the air above you, like the wall is.
The only way you can push into that atmosphere and keep resistant to it is by using your feet as a barrier to the ground and the ground as a stronger barrier to your whole dense mass.

If you try to walk up a wall, you change your whole balance against that atmosphere. You have to angle back and in doing so you change the whole balance of atmosphere acting on your body so it now pushes back onto your body in an angled motion, meaning you are going to be compressed down to the floor by having no floor leverage until you are flat on your back.

As I said before. It's not about the atmosphere knowing when to do anything. It's reliant on any mass and density of that mass pushing into it.
But if I am perpendicular to the wall, feet on the wall, would not then be pushing into the atmosphere horizontally?  Why does this only work when I am pushing into the atmosphere vertically?  How does the atmosphere know?

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 12330
  • +1/-1
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #469 on: February 26, 2015, 08:11:22 AM »
If I draw you a simplistic diagram in paint, will you look at it as an analogy of the basic and try to understand what I'm saying or will you immediately go into ignorant mode. I need to know this before I waste a bit of time.
I'd be happy to. My only issues with the analogies you're using are that they rely on my perceptions of the real world: which either means you've presupposed your pressure is a valid explanation, or appealed to a downwards force. That's an entirely reasonable issue to have. I've been happy with every other illustration you've made.

The other note would be that you can't just say "This is how things are," and draw a vertical stack, without giving a reason why the stack is only vertical, and not horizontal. That's the main thing I'm asking, after all.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #470 on: February 26, 2015, 08:23:12 AM »
If I draw you a simplistic diagram in paint, will you look at it as an analogy of the basic and try to understand what I'm saying or will you immediately go into ignorant mode. I need to know this before I waste a bit of time.
I'd be happy to. My only issues with the analogies you're using are that they rely on my perceptions of the real world: which either means you've presupposed your pressure is a valid explanation, or appealed to a downwards force. That's an entirely reasonable issue to have. I've been happy with every other illustration you've made.

The other note would be that you can't just say "This is how things are," and draw a vertical stack, without giving a reason why the stack is only vertical, and not horizontal. That's the main thing I'm asking, after all.
I'm going to make this easier for you. I'll start asking you questions.

A bell jar and pump. You lift off the jar no problem, right?

Ok now you place it back down and evacuate air from it. Tell me why you can't pick that jar up. What clamps that jar to the base?

*

Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • +0/-0
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #471 on: February 26, 2015, 08:28:48 AM »
I'll admit, I'm intrigued.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 12330
  • +1/-1
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #472 on: February 26, 2015, 08:37:43 AM »
A bell jar and pump. You lift off the jar no problem, right?

Ok now you place it back down and evacuate air from it. Tell me why you can't pick that jar up. What clamps that jar to the base?
Suction. My understanding is that as matter seeks to travel into a vacuum, so too is the base drawn up: while it obviously can't fit into the jar, it's drawn towards it, so they stay clamped together. It's been several years since I've done physics, however, so particulars are likely wrong.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #473 on: February 26, 2015, 08:44:00 AM »
A bell jar and pump. You lift off the jar no problem, right?

Ok now you place it back down and evacuate air from it. Tell me why you can't pick that jar up. What clamps that jar to the base?
Suction. My understanding is that as matter seeks to travel into a vacuum, so too is the base drawn up: while it obviously can't fit into the jar, it's drawn towards it, so they stay clamped together. It's been several years since I've done physics, however, so particulars are likely wrong.
Ok, here's what I'm going to propose. You cast all of your learning aside from mainstream, just for now and think of what I say. This isn't a dig - it's just so you can see my side and allow yourself to understand everything I'm about to tell you in a no frills basic manner.

Now there is no such thing as suction. There is no pull and nothing sucks. Can you accept this for the minute before I explain what's happening with the scenario I put to you?

?

MattiNasa

  • 23
  • +0/-0
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #474 on: February 26, 2015, 08:45:42 AM »
Few cents to the topic. Scepti can ignore this since he does not value mainstream physics anyways but this is what physics has to say in regards of acceleration, pressure and such. Indeed acceleration and pressure has relation and it's called Variation of Pressure with Depth. It is laid out:

difference in pressure = density * acceleration * depth

so in 5 C temperature at sea level would calculate 1.2690 kg/m^3 * 9.8 m/s^2 * 1 m and gives 12.436 Pa which is what barometer would measure as difference at one meter height above the ground. It does not actually matter what is the cause of acceleration whether it is the gravity, engine of a car or denpressure.

Now if Scepti would go with the car and barometer experiment, in theory he could actually pull it off. Probably air conditioning and leakage of air through windows and doors are going to cause the test to fail though.

Physics predicts that the difference in pressure is caused by acceleration and acceleration is caused by gravity. For what I can understand of denpressure the acceleration is caused by differences in pressure. Scepti has reversed causal relation there. But I actually agree about the pressure layers observed in zero G flights and such. If Scepti actually came up with the idea without knowing mainstream physics and using math, then I'am quite impressed.

But to the experiment with vacuum chamber. There pressure was dropped and the differences of pressure or the stacks was also dropped. No 12.436 Pa/m stacking but nevertheless the scale still weighed the object same as outside the chamber. Gas and fluid physics don't predict changes in acceleration because of pressure stacks so one point for physics and zero for denpressure.

As a side note the difference of pressure in the chamber floor and bottom was in scale of billion in comparison to normal sea level so any difference in weight or acceleration would have been measurable for sure and calibration of scales would not have made any difference. If using a scale was a problem then measure the acceleration in low pressure condition by dropping an object and measure the time it hits the bottom. A clock would need no calibration as we are not talking about time dilatation or anything like that.

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 12330
  • +1/-1
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #475 on: February 26, 2015, 08:47:05 AM »
Ok, here's what I'm going to propose. You cast all of your learning aside from mainstream, just for now and think of what I say. This isn't a dig - it's just so you can see my side and allow yourself to understand everything I'm about to tell you in a no frills basic manner.

Now there is no such thing as suction. There is no pull and nothing sucks. Can you accept this for the minute before I explain what's happening with the scenario I put to you?
I'm happy to: currently I'm only interested in understanding what you propose at how it matches what we see.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #476 on: February 26, 2015, 09:06:45 AM »
you're all being gullible fools. gravity is obviously not to blame, it's the push of aether on the disc of the earth that keeps us down. low density aether causes several odd effects at different altitudes, causing the seeming decrease with height, i've explained my theory more in other threads, suffice to say that's explained.

we can be sure air pressure is not the cause however because there is no such thing as air. open your eyes. i mean that literally, does it really feel like millions of specks are hitting your eyes? walk into a sandstorm. think for yourself.
you can't see it, you can't touch it, you can only take scientists' word for it. it makes no sense to think some invisible substance is everywhere.
air resistance is aether. humans breathe only to keep a cycle going, and to keep ourselves warm, but we do not breathe in air. we die only when we inhale a poison, such as too thick aether at higher altitudes (explained away by nonsense like thinner air. so it's thinner than 'too small to be seen or felt' now?), or the particles in so-called vacuum environments, which are just specks from the walls of, say, a scuba tank.

i applaud sceptimatic for the thought he has put into his theory, but it requires something that simply doesn't exist. upward acceleration by aether (which also explains the origin and design of the universe) is a far more reasonable explanation, as anyone who opens their minds will see.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

Lemmiwinks

  • 2161
  • +0/-0
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #477 on: February 26, 2015, 09:18:32 AM »
I don't know who to believe.

Scepti, why is JRowe saying this? I mean what he is saying makes sense, can you please elaborate why you are right and he is wrong?
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #478 on: February 26, 2015, 09:26:26 AM »
Ok, here's what I'm going to propose. You cast all of your learning aside from mainstream, just for now and think of what I say. This isn't a dig - it's just so you can see my side and allow yourself to understand everything I'm about to tell you in a no frills basic manner.

Now there is no such thing as suction. There is no pull and nothing sucks. Can you accept this for the minute before I explain what's happening with the scenario I put to you?
I'm happy to: currently I'm only interested in understanding what you propose at how it matches what we see.
Ok, think deeply about what I'm about to tell you.

The bell jar sat on it's base is in an equal environment of pressure, inside and outside.
The only repelling of that is the actual glass bell jar itself. Basically the overall thickness of it which is resisting pressure from outside and also inside. Basically equal pressure pushing on each side of the glass.
I know you understand this so don't think I'm trying to be funny with this. I just feel it's better to add it all in.

Ok, now if you pick that bell jar up, you feel that weight or you feel it's density/mass and anyone can assume it's gravity pulling it down by text book. You can't because your text books do not exist for now.

Now because we pick that bell jar up, we are only picking it up under equal pressure inside of it and outside, except we change that by pushing it into the atmosphere and compressing it from the deck, so instead of the base holding that pressure, it's transferred to your arm and hand and shoulder all the way to your feet.


Ok, so now we place the bell jar back down on the base and evacuate air from it. We push air out of it, not suck.
The air that the bell jar was holding in equal part as outside has now changed balance.
The air inside is now pushed into the atmosphere and compressed that amount of evacuated air back onto the bell jar, clamping it to the base.

You changed the balance only by the air you evacuated and that is all that is exerting pressure against that jar, which is a lot considering what it was equalised with for it's size in psi.
This tells you that the atmosphere is literally clamping down on it so much that a pump cannot gain enough strength to push any more air into the atmosphere. If you were to get a bigger, stronger pump, then you can push a little more out - but - you would find that the bell jar would implode due to the enormous outside pressure upon that jar with very little inside pressure to resist it due to you adding it to the outside.

Now bearing this in mind, it's easy to see that atmospheric pressure plays it's full part in keeping a mass on the ground by that mass displacing it's own density  against that pressure.
The thing is, we can't clamp ourselves to the deck with any more pressure than what is upon us because we would have to expel air. Now we could do this by blowing as hard as we could to expel it from our lungs but your own mind would not understand what's happening as regards adding to the pressure outside - but if you think about it and do it right now, you will feel heavier and in discomfort.
That's because that little air you added to the atmosphere has just added a small crush against you, just like when you take a deep breath and expand your chest. You feel like your head is going to pop because the atmosphere is crushing you back to equalise the pressure and can't until you release it.

Ok so how do we now tell that there's no other magical force in play that could be pulling stuff down instead of pushing?

The easiest way to know this is to remember the simple experiment I gave a little while ago with the glass and playing card.
Fill the glass nearly full and place the card over it then tip it upside down. The card stays on the glass of water.

Now people think air pressure holds it back but don't understand why. Because, as we know, water is more dense than air and can overcome it by air rushing into the glass to push it out if there wasn't a card covering that glass. So how does the water stay in?

The answer is in the atmospheric pressure difference inside the glass itself. That small pocket of air that is trapped in the upturned glass is against the glass bottom and the atmospheric pressure cannot push down on it due to the glass bottom creating a barrier.
It can't get in at the other end because the card creates a barrier and the atmospheric pressure clamps the card to the rim of the glass.
The very small pocket of air is no match for the larger atmospheric air outside pushing in, so the card stays clamped until the card is removed.
Now the amount of water in the glass is no match for the atmospheric pressure pushing up against it because it doesn't have the aid of very much pushing it back against it. It's just too low a pressure.

The force that keeps everything on Earth as we see it and perceive it, is atmospheric pressure upon any dense object. That pressure is denpressure.


*

JimmyTheCrab

  • 10340
  • +0/-5
Re: Gravity = Air Pressure
« Reply #479 on: February 26, 2015, 09:34:08 AM »
I don't know who to believe.

Scepti, why is JRowe saying this? I mean what he is saying makes sense, can you please elaborate why you are right and he is wrong?
Isn't idiot baiting against the law?
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.