Gravity = Air Pressure

Quote from: ocha on November 28, 2014, 04:10:13 PM

I will help you with that: if you take all of the air out of a chamber (at sea level), there will just be a force of 1kg/cm2 crushing it. Internal force: 0 External force: 1 (kg/cm2)
If we take a tire with a manometric pressure of 1 bar, the force will be THE SAME, 2 internal - 1 internal, but it will tend to expand it, not compress it. The total force experienced by the chamber is just the difference between the internal and external

That chamber before evacuation has around 15 psi of pressure acting upon the top of it. It also has that pressure from the top of it pushed inside of it toequalise the pressure between the thin glass jar (vacuum chamber).
When you evacuate the air from it, you are now adding to the pressure upon the chamber by pushing the air inside it back into the atmosphere above it which the glass itself has to try and stop. If only a certain amount of evacuated, the bell jar will hold but will be under extreme pressure. Try and take too much out and that jar will implode, no doubt about it.
It's all about stable equalisation at the start as a push on push of air. Once you change that push, you create an uneven air pressure.
This has to happen in life or we die. Action/reaction at all times.

Scepti please. Pressure doesn't work like that. We are not talking about something we can't prove like gravity, this is simple. If yu take all of the air out of a chamber, it doesn't necessarily have to implode. It is not difficult to make a chamber which can resist a pressure difference of 1 kg/cm2
And as I told you, if we put a tire with an absolute pressure of 2 bar (bar=kg/cm2) in space, it would have the same pressure it would down on earth, and if atmospheric pressure was 3 bar, for example we could put a 5 bar pressure in and it would have again the same relative pressure.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 03:52:19 AM

Quote from: ocha on November 28, 2014, 04:10:13 PM

I will help you with that: if you take all of the air out of a chamber (at sea level), there will just be a force of 1kg/cm2 crushing it. Internal force: 0 External force: 1 (kg/cm2)
If we take a tire with a manometric pressure of 1 bar, the force will be THE SAME, 2 internal - 1 internal, but it will tend to expand it, not compress it. The total force experienced by the chamber is just the difference between the internal and external

That chamber before evacuation has around 15 psi of pressure acting upon the top of it. It also has that pressure from the top of it pushed inside of it toequalise the pressure between the thin glass jar (vacuum chamber).
When you evacuate the air from it, you are now adding to the pressure upon the chamber by pushing the air inside it back into the atmosphere above it which the glass itself has to try and stop. If only a certain amount of evacuated, the bell jar will hold but will be under extreme pressure. Try and take too much out and that jar will implode, no doubt about it.
It's all about stable equalisation at the start as a push on push of air. Once you change that push, you create an uneven air pressure.
This has to happen in life or we die. Action/reaction at all times.

Scepti please. Pressure doesn't work like that. We are not talking about something we can't prove like gravity, this is simple. If yu take all of the air out of a chamber, it doesn't necessarily have to implode. It is not difficult to make a chamber which can resist a pressure difference of 1 kg/cm2
And as I told you, if we put a tire with an absolute pressure of 2 bar (bar=kg/cm2) in space, it would have the same pressure it would down on earth, and if atmospheric pressure was 3 bar, for example we could put a 5 bar pressure in and it would have again the same relative pressure.

You can't put a tyre in your space, inflated to any pressure. It will simply expand and blow apart. It would do this well before that, anyway.

Think about it.
Try putting that tyre into a vaccum chamber and keep pushing the air out. That tyre will pop, no doubt about it.
It's called free expansion. What does free expansion mean?

Well think of it like this.
 When you inflate a tyre, you compress the air in that tyre and to compensate for this, the tyre expands into the atmosphere to cater for the air you took out of it. The atmosphere is pushing back onto that tyre to stop the rubber pushing through it easily.

If you were to lower the atmospheric pressure outside, very low - that tyre has nothing of any pressure to exert against it so it allows the compressed molecules inside of it to expand, with only the wall of the tyre as the holding force, which is now easily overcome by being stretched. In other words, the tyre has no helping hand to stop it from simply expanding so it has to bulge out to try and equalise the pressure but can't because it's as near as damn it up against no pressure which means it's free to expand into the atmosphere under no reactive pressure force. BANG. (except we wouldn't hear it)
That's the only way it can equalise the atmosphere is to give up it's air, leaving the lower pressure to act evenly on the rubber type from all sides by now.

If the pressure was super low as in so close to a real vacuum, then the tyre integrity would also be lost because the denser material of the tyre alone without air, will start to expand and be literally taken apart, leaving nothing.

Once nothing is left, it means that you now have a TRUE vacuum where no matter of any description, is.
You can call this a place of suspended animation if you like, as there would be no up, down, horizontal or anything of movement freely within it and nothing to see in it as it's basically non existent to our eyes.

In fantasy world it exists as space with somehow scattered matter and photons and such like, we are told. It's nonsense, it really is.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 28, 2014, 12:49:43 PM

People believe a  vacuum will make things fall faster on Earth but then they go and tell you that they float in space. Can you see the con?
The con is gravity.

Why is it that you don't know anything about gravity, as shown in this statement, yet you deny it?
Why are you misleading Yendor, and a lot of other people?

No scientist, no NASA scientist, no modern scientist has ever claimed that in space there is no gravity. That is what you are claiming by "float in space" right? If not, disregard this. But you have just treaded onto the path of a Kerbal Space Program fanatic, and you will not get away with it.

In movies, they often depict space travel from Earth with a gravity cutoff, where all of a sudden, after they reach a certain altitude, all gravity goes away. This is not true, and it's clear Sceptimatic hasn't done any research on the subject. The gravity of Earth actually extends much further than the even the moon. The gravity of Earth on the International Space Station is virtually the same that it is on the ground. So, how can this be? Why do people float in space? Well, as someone else has pointed out, the moon, and the ISS are in orbit. All spacecraft in space are. Their lateral velocity is actually just high enough to essentially "miss" the Earth as they fall. Think about throwing a ball on the moon (no air resistance in this scenario, makes things a bit easier). You throw the ball with not much force, and it falls a few hundred feet away. Every time you throw the ball, you add more force and it goes further. Now, you throw the ball with so much force, that its velocity is high enough to circle the entire moon, and it will continue doing so, until something stops it (a human does not actually have the strength to propel a ball to the velocity required to achieve orbit on the moon at just 2 meters in altitude, this is just an example).

The only reason astronauts "float" in space, is, humorously, because they are falling with their spacecraft. They both have the same velocity, so it just looks like they are floating. In reality, both the ISS and the astronauts inside are moving a nice smooth 7.66 kilometers per second around the world.

Quote from: Yendor on November 28, 2014, 01:10:40 PM

Where does the lateral velocity come from?

If you've ever watched a rocket launch, never do the rockets go straight up. They slowly swing off to the north, west, east, south, or anything in between, depending on what their trajectory calls for. Eventually, rockets end up thrusting parallel to the Earth, pointing around towards the horizon. This all increases their lateral velocity to establish orbit, or else they would fall right back down to Earth, no matter what altitude they are in. The lateral velocity comes from the boosting of the rocket, simply, laterally.

I understand what you are saying. While the astronauts are in the craft I can see where they are traveling along at the same speed as the craft. However, during space walks, all the videos I see show where they simply open the hatch and float out makes no sense to me. I would think all of a sudden their force and the crafts would not be the same and I would expect to see some kind of reaction. I don't, they just float out as if nothing happened. Also, when a rocket enters space to undock a satellite, what keeps the rocket from simply orbiting the Earth like the satellite. What slows it down so gravity can pull it back to Earth. I would think the same momentum that keeps the satellite in space would keep the rocket in space too. I have many more questions like this.

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

If it was so easy to fake space then you would think that scientists wouldn't have had such a hey day picking apart the movie gravity in the scene where george clooney died. In that scene clooney was being drifted away from the spacecraft for no apparent reason and was only attached by a cord. In space he would have been able to just tug on the cord and bring himself back so this scene was erroneous. You'd think that if it was so easy to fake space then the movie would have gotten this right and that we would see more glaring problems like this in videos of the iss. But we don't and scientists and regular joes were quick to point out problems like this in a movie.

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

The evidence that is available shows otherwise.

I understand what you are saying. While the astronauts are in the craft I can see where they are traveling along at the same speed as the craft. However, during space walks, all the videos I see show where they simply open the hatch and float out makes no sense to me. I would think all of a sudden their force and the crafts would not be the same

Why do you think that? 

and I would expect to see some kind of reaction. I don't, they just float out as if nothing happened.

Nothing has happened.

Also, when a rocket enters space to undock a satellite, what keeps the rocket from simply orbiting the Earth like the satellite. What slows it down so gravity can pull it back to Earth. I would think the same momentum that keeps the satellite in space would keep the rocket in space too. I have many more questions like this.

I think a basic grasp of Newton's laws of motion would answer these questions and many more.  Seriously.

The Lord says in 2 Esdras 6:1-6

"I made this decision before I created the world: before the gates of the world were standing; before the winds were brought together to blow, or the lightning flashed, or the thunder rolled; before the foundations of Paradise were laid, or the beautiful flowers appeared; before the powers that move the stars were established, or the armies of angels assembled; before the air was piled up high, or the divisions of the heavens given their names; before I chose Mount Zion as my footstool; before the present age was planned, or the scheming of its sinners was rejected, or my seal was placed on those who obeyed the Law and laid up a treasure of faithfulness. Even then, I decided that since I, and I alone, had created the world, I, and I alone, would bring it to an end."

The Lord says in 2 Esdras 6:1-6

"I made this decision before I created the world: before the gates of the world were standing; before the winds were brought together to blow, or the lightning flashed, or the thunder rolled; before the foundations of Paradise were laid, or the beautiful flowers appeared; before the powers that move the stars were established, or the armies of angels assembled; before the air was piled up high, or the divisions of the heavens given their names; before I chose Mount Zion as my footstool; before the present age was planned, or the scheming of its sinners was rejected, or my seal was placed on those who obeyed the Law and laid up a treasure of faithfulness. Even then, I decided that since I, and I alone, had created the world, I, and I alone, would bring it to an end."

Nobody has said that air is not stacked. The disagreement is about what's causes the stack. RErs say gravity. Some FErs say UA. Denpressure advocates say "no comment".

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 06:32:11 AM

I understand what you are saying. While the astronauts are in the craft I can see where they are traveling along at the same speed as the craft. However, during space walks, all the videos I see show where they simply open the hatch and float out makes no sense to me. I would think all of a sudden their force and the crafts would not be the same

Why do you think that? 

Quote

and I would expect to see some kind of reaction. I don't, they just float out as if nothing happened.

Nothing has happened.

Quote

Also, when a rocket enters space to undock a satellite, what keeps the rocket from simply orbiting the Earth like the satellite. What slows it down so gravity can pull it back to Earth. I would think the same momentum that keeps the satellite in space would keep the rocket in space too. I have many more questions like this.

I think a basic grasp of Newton's laws of motion would answer these questions and many more.  Seriously.

You mean like - a rocket in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by some outside force?

what would be the outside force slowing down an 18,000 mph rocket. Maybe reverse thrusters?

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

It is true that there is some air resistance in the altitude of the ISS, but it's definitely not enough to feel it. If that were the case then the iss would have to constantly boost itself into orbit, which it only has to do every few months.

Don't listen up sceptimatic in this respect. He still thinks we claim there is a gravity cutoff and still uses it as an argument. A strawman argument.

I think this video might help you a bit. It's the ISS conducting a small burn of a few m/s with astronauts inside.
[ISS] Station Re-boost From Inside Station: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The iss itself is boosting forward, while the astronauts inside are not holding on to anything, so they are going to be left behind, regardless of whether they are in an enclosed space or not.

As for how rockets get out of orbit, they simply turn around and boost  'retrograde' or in the opposite direction of their forward velocity vector. This slows then down, minute by minute, until their trajectory no longer competes a full orbit.

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 07:30:16 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

It is true that there is some air resistance in the altitude of the ISS, but it's definitely not enough to feel it. If that were the case then the iss would have to constantly boost itself into orbit, which it only has to do every few months.

Don't listen up sceptimatic in this respect. He still thinks we claim there is a gravity cutoff and still uses it as an argument. A strawman argument.

I think this video might help you a bit. It's the ISS conducting a small burn of a few m/s with astronauts inside.
[ISS] Station Re-boost From Inside Station: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The iss itself is boosting forward, while the astronauts inside are not holding on to anything, so they are going to be left behind, regardless of whether they are in an enclosed space or not.

As for how rockets get out of orbit, they simply turn around and boost  'retrograde' or in the opposite direction of their forward velocity vector. This slows then down, minute by minute, until their trajectory no longer competes a full orbit.

okay, I've seen all the iss videos and I get your point. I'm just not convinced there really is an iss. I've seen too many videos that are blatantly fake.

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 08:29:06 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 07:30:16 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

It is true that there is some air resistance in the altitude of the ISS, but it's definitely not enough to feel it. If that were the case then the iss would have to constantly boost itself into orbit, which it only has to do every few months.

Don't listen up sceptimatic in this respect. He still thinks we claim there is a gravity cutoff and still uses it as an argument. A strawman argument.

I think this video might help you a bit. It's the ISS conducting a small burn of a few m/s with astronauts inside.
[ISS] Station Re-boost From Inside Station: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The iss itself is boosting forward, while the astronauts inside are not holding on to anything, so they are going to be left behind, regardless of whether they are in an enclosed space or not.

As for how rockets get out of orbit, they simply turn around and boost  'retrograde' or in the opposite direction of their forward velocity vector. This slows then down, minute by minute, until their trajectory no longer competes a full orbit.

okay, I've seen all the iss videos and I get your point. I'm just not convinced there really is an iss. I've seen too many videos that are blatantly fake.

I kinda understand your scepticism, but I have seen the ISS myself using a friend's telescope, you can do it with almost any telescope, doesn't have to be and expensive one. You can clearly see its shape, not with great detail, but it is clearly the ISS.
It comes out when the NASA webpage says it will, and all the data are pretty consistent

okay, I've seen all the iss videos and I get your point. I'm just not convinced there really is an iss. I've seen too many videos that are blatantly fake.

Do you ever think it's strange that none of the world's video, CGI and special effect experts never call these fake, yet you can spot em every time?

What specialist skills and knowledge do you have that allow you to see through their cheap illusions, where the experts spot nothing?

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 08:29:06 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 07:30:16 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

It is true that there is some air resistance in the altitude of the ISS, but it's definitely not enough to feel it. If that were the case then the iss would have to constantly boost itself into orbit, which it only has to do every few months.

Don't listen up sceptimatic in this respect. He still thinks we claim there is a gravity cutoff and still uses it as an argument. A strawman argument.

I think this video might help you a bit. It's the ISS conducting a small burn of a few m/s with astronauts inside.
[ISS] Station Re-boost From Inside Station: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The iss itself is boosting forward, while the astronauts inside are not holding on to anything, so they are going to be left behind, regardless of whether they are in an enclosed space or not.

As for how rockets get out of orbit, they simply turn around and boost  'retrograde' or in the opposite direction of their forward velocity vector. This slows then down, minute by minute, until their trajectory no longer competes a full orbit.

okay, I've seen all the iss videos and I get your point. I'm just not convinced there really is an iss. I've seen too many videos that are blatantly fake.

As ocha said, anybody can see the ISS and its general shape with a cheap telescope setup. I had a Celestron Newtonian telescope and a Canon T3 DSLR which was around $600, I got images a lot like these:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> (1:06 is where the images are)

And anybody can do this, as long as you have a clear night. You can even track the Soyuz or the Shuttle(not anymore as the shuttle was decommissioned unfortunately) docking with the ISS, and even, with obviously a much more powerful telescope, see astronauts during spacewalks. Anybody can do this. You cannot outright deny it. Sceptimatic can't deny it, you can't deny it, no one can, because anybody can buy a decent telescope and see it for themselves, as I have. The ISS/Space Shuttle/Soyuz is real, and you cannot deny it.

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 09:04:01 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 08:29:06 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 07:30:16 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

It is true that there is some air resistance in the altitude of the ISS, but it's definitely not enough to feel it. If that were the case then the iss would have to constantly boost itself into orbit, which it only has to do every few months.

Don't listen up sceptimatic in this respect. He still thinks we claim there is a gravity cutoff and still uses it as an argument. A strawman argument.

I think this video might help you a bit. It's the ISS conducting a small burn of a few m/s with astronauts inside.
[ISS] Station Re-boost From Inside Station: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The iss itself is boosting forward, while the astronauts inside are not holding on to anything, so they are going to be left behind, regardless of whether they are in an enclosed space or not.

As for how rockets get out of orbit, they simply turn around and boost  'retrograde' or in the opposite direction of their forward velocity vector. This slows then down, minute by minute, until their trajectory no longer competes a full orbit.

okay, I've seen all the iss videos and I get your point. I'm just not convinced there really is an iss. I've seen too many videos that are blatantly fake.

As ocha said, anybody can see the ISS and its general shape with a cheap telescope setup. I had a Celestron Newtonian telescope and a Canon T3 DSLR which was around $600, I got images a lot like these:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> (1:06 is where the images are)

And anybody can do this, as long as you have a clear night. You can even track the Soyuz or the Shuttle(not anymore as the shuttle was decommissioned unfortunately) docking with the ISS, and even, with obviously a much more powerful telescope, see astronauts during spacewalks. Anybody can do this. You cannot outright deny it. Sceptimatic can't deny it, you can't deny it, no one can, because anybody can buy a decent telescope and see it for themselves, as I have. The ISS/Space Shuttle/Soyuz is real, and you cannot deny it.

Will you kindly share the pictures you took with me? I'd love to see the ones you took. Look, I want to believe the things are as they say they are, but I have my doubts. I'm old enough to have witnessed the entire space program and I have worked in technology my whole life. The things I've read and seen have convinced me it may not be as we are told.

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 09:57:20 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 09:04:01 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 08:29:06 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 07:30:16 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

It is true that there is some air resistance in the altitude of the ISS, but it's definitely not enough to feel it. If that were the case then the iss would have to constantly boost itself into orbit, which it only has to do every few months.

Don't listen up sceptimatic in this respect. He still thinks we claim there is a gravity cutoff and still uses it as an argument. A strawman argument.

I think this video might help you a bit. It's the ISS conducting a small burn of a few m/s with astronauts inside.
[ISS] Station Re-boost From Inside Station: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The iss itself is boosting forward, while the astronauts inside are not holding on to anything, so they are going to be left behind, regardless of whether they are in an enclosed space or not.

As for how rockets get out of orbit, they simply turn around and boost  'retrograde' or in the opposite direction of their forward velocity vector. This slows then down, minute by minute, until their trajectory no longer competes a full orbit.

okay, I've seen all the iss videos and I get your point. I'm just not convinced there really is an iss. I've seen too many videos that are blatantly fake.

As ocha said, anybody can see the ISS and its general shape with a cheap telescope setup. I had a Celestron Newtonian telescope and a Canon T3 DSLR which was around $600, I got images a lot like these:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> (1:06 is where the images are)

And anybody can do this, as long as you have a clear night. You can even track the Soyuz or the Shuttle(not anymore as the shuttle was decommissioned unfortunately) docking with the ISS, and even, with obviously a much more powerful telescope, see astronauts during spacewalks. Anybody can do this. You cannot outright deny it. Sceptimatic can't deny it, you can't deny it, no one can, because anybody can buy a decent telescope and see it for themselves, as I have. The ISS/Space Shuttle/Soyuz is real, and you cannot deny it.

Will you kindly share the pictures you took with me? I'd love to see the ones you took. Look, I want to believe the things are as they say they are, but I have my doubts. I'm old enough to have witnessed the entire space program and I have worked in technology my whole life. The things I've read and seen have convinced me it may not be as we are told.

My friend and I took this one around a year ago with a Meade 2080B 8" Schmidt Cassegrain telescope, and a DSLR.
http://i.imgur.com/hF0e9b2.jpg

Pictures like these are made by amateurs all over the internet if you want to see yourself. I'm stressing though that you must try it yourself before outright denying it. If you think pictures are fabricated, and we are all part of the conspiracy, you still cannot deny the ISS until you see it yourself, or else you're being dishonest and unreasonable.

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 10:28:35 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 09:57:20 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 09:04:01 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 08:29:06 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 07:30:16 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

It is true that there is some air resistance in the altitude of the ISS, but it's definitely not enough to feel it. If that were the case then the iss would have to constantly boost itself into orbit, which it only has to do every few months.

Don't listen up sceptimatic in this respect. He still thinks we claim there is a gravity cutoff and still uses it as an argument. A strawman argument.

I think this video might help you a bit. It's the ISS conducting a small burn of a few m/s with astronauts inside.
[ISS] Station Re-boost From Inside Station: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The iss itself is boosting forward, while the astronauts inside are not holding on to anything, so they are going to be left behind, regardless of whether they are in an enclosed space or not.

As for how rockets get out of orbit, they simply turn around and boost  'retrograde' or in the opposite direction of their forward velocity vector. This slows then down, minute by minute, until their trajectory no longer competes a full orbit.

okay, I've seen all the iss videos and I get your point. I'm just not convinced there really is an iss. I've seen too many videos that are blatantly fake.

As ocha said, anybody can see the ISS and its general shape with a cheap telescope setup. I had a Celestron Newtonian telescope and a Canon T3 DSLR which was around $600, I got images a lot like these:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> (1:06 is where the images are)

And anybody can do this, as long as you have a clear night. You can even track the Soyuz or the Shuttle(not anymore as the shuttle was decommissioned unfortunately) docking with the ISS, and even, with obviously a much more powerful telescope, see astronauts during spacewalks. Anybody can do this. You cannot outright deny it. Sceptimatic can't deny it, you can't deny it, no one can, because anybody can buy a decent telescope and see it for themselves, as I have. The ISS/Space Shuttle/Soyuz is real, and you cannot deny it.

Will you kindly share the pictures you took with me? I'd love to see the ones you took. Look, I want to believe the things are as they say they are, but I have my doubts. I'm old enough to have witnessed the entire space program and I have worked in technology my whole life. The things I've read and seen have convinced me it may not be as we are told.

My friend and I took this one around a year ago with a Meade 2080B 8" Schmidt Cassegrain telescope, and a DSLR.
http://i.imgur.com/hF0e9b2.jpg

Pictures like these are made by amateurs all over the internet if you want to see yourself. I'm stressing though that you must try it yourself before outright denying it. If you think pictures are fabricated, and we are all part of the conspiracy, you still cannot deny the ISS until you see it yourself, or else you're being dishonest and unreasonable.

Thank you, your picture looks very nice. You did to good to capture such a fine picture like that in a short amount of time. And by this picture, you are convinced there are people on board?

The ISS is supposed to be travelling at 17,000 mph and can do something like 16 orbits a day and these clever amateurs manage to capture it clearly as a shape of light.
Does anyone seriously believe something like this, illuminated by the so called sun, travlling at 17,000 mph would show up in a telescope like this from a distance of 230 supposed miles.

For all those scpetics looking in, please don't fall for this clap trap.

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 10:36:19 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 10:28:35 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 09:57:20 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 09:04:01 AM

Quote from: Jet Fission on November 29, 2014, 08:29:06 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 07:30:16 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on November 29, 2014, 06:52:37 AM

The astronauts are going at the same speed as the spacecraft.  Because there is very little, if any, air resistance in orbit, they stay going at the same speed as the spacecraft when they are exiting.  Therefore, they appear to float out of the hatch.  The spacecraft is stationary relative to the astronaut.

A simple experiment you can do is to drop a ball in a moving vehicle.  The ball does not fly backwards at 50 mph when you release it.  It just drops straight down.

However, there is some air resistance in space and traveling at 18,000 mph I think you would feel the effect.

It is true that there is some air resistance in the altitude of the ISS, but it's definitely not enough to feel it. If that were the case then the iss would have to constantly boost itself into orbit, which it only has to do every few months.

Don't listen up sceptimatic in this respect. He still thinks we claim there is a gravity cutoff and still uses it as an argument. A strawman argument.

I think this video might help you a bit. It's the ISS conducting a small burn of a few m/s with astronauts inside.
[ISS] Station Re-boost From Inside Station: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The iss itself is boosting forward, while the astronauts inside are not holding on to anything, so they are going to be left behind, regardless of whether they are in an enclosed space or not.

As for how rockets get out of orbit, they simply turn around and boost  'retrograde' or in the opposite direction of their forward velocity vector. This slows then down, minute by minute, until their trajectory no longer competes a full orbit.

okay, I've seen all the iss videos and I get your point. I'm just not convinced there really is an iss. I've seen too many videos that are blatantly fake.

As ocha said, anybody can see the ISS and its general shape with a cheap telescope setup. I had a Celestron Newtonian telescope and a Canon T3 DSLR which was around $600, I got images a lot like these:
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> (1:06 is where the images are)

And anybody can do this, as long as you have a clear night. You can even track the Soyuz or the Shuttle(not anymore as the shuttle was decommissioned unfortunately) docking with the ISS, and even, with obviously a much more powerful telescope, see astronauts during spacewalks. Anybody can do this. You cannot outright deny it. Sceptimatic can't deny it, you can't deny it, no one can, because anybody can buy a decent telescope and see it for themselves, as I have. The ISS/Space Shuttle/Soyuz is real, and you cannot deny it.

Will you kindly share the pictures you took with me? I'd love to see the ones you took. Look, I want to believe the things are as they say they are, but I have my doubts. I'm old enough to have witnessed the entire space program and I have worked in technology my whole life. The things I've read and seen have convinced me it may not be as we are told.

My friend and I took this one around a year ago with a Meade 2080B 8" Schmidt Cassegrain telescope, and a DSLR.
http://i.imgur.com/hF0e9b2.jpg

Pictures like these are made by amateurs all over the internet if you want to see yourself. I'm stressing though that you must try it yourself before outright denying it. If you think pictures are fabricated, and we are all part of the conspiracy, you still cannot deny the ISS until you see it yourself, or else you're being dishonest and unreasonable.

Thank you, your picture looks very nice. You did to good to capture such a fine picture like that in a short amount of time. And by this picture, you are convinced there are people on board?

Well considering that the plain existence of a space station demonstrably traveling 7.66 km/s already disproves most of FET, and considering the fact that I witnessed a Shuttle launch, and that the docking of the shuttle or Soyuz to the ISS can be and has been photographed from the ground by an amateur, and the fact that there are dozens of videos of people floating in the ISS for hours; Yes.

The ISS is supposed to be travelling at 17,000 mph and can do something like 16 orbits a day and these clever amateurs manage to capture it clearly as a shape of light.
Does anyone seriously believe something like this, illuminated by the so called sun, travlling at 17,000 mph would show up in a telescope like this from a distance of 230 supposed miles.

For all those scpetics looking in, please don't fall for this clap trap.

I have no reason to lie to you. You think I'm in the conspiracy or something? I know you can't lock on the ISS manually, that's why most telescopes have tracking device

Gosh Scepti...they have all this evidence against us, they must be right.

The ISS is supposed to be travelling at 17,000 mph and can do something like 16 orbits a day and these clever amateurs manage to capture it clearly as a shape of light.
Does anyone seriously believe something like this, illuminated by the so called sun, travlling at 17,000 mph would show up in a telescope like this from a distance of 230 supposed miles.

For all those scpetics looking in, please don't fall for this clap trap.

Seriously? Have you ever operated a camera? Have you ever TRIED seeing the ISS at night? Ugh. This makes me sick. This isn't even an argument. You're just rewording certain details to make them sound laughable, only making yourself sound laughable, because you clearly haven't tried imaging the ISS, because of your faith that it doesn't exist. But it does. And if you point a $200 telescope at it one clear night, you will see it. Until then, you are just spouting nonsense.

I hope you realize, sceptimatic, that shutter speeds upwards of 1/4000 of a second were used. And I hope you realize, that over 500 images were taken, and this was the only one that wasn't completely blurry. I also hope you realize, that there is something called a Star Tracker Mount. You're not convincing anyone but yourself.

The ISS is supposed to be travelling at 17,000 mph and can do something like 16 orbits a day and these clever amateurs manage to capture it clearly as a shape of light.
Does anyone seriously believe something like this, illuminated by the so called sun, travlling at 17,000 mph would show up in a telescope like this from a distance of 230 supposed miles.

For all those scpetics looking in, please don't fall for this clap trap.

Obviously, the last thing that any member of this "Zetetic" society would do is go have a look themselves.

Making up cr@p is the easy option.

Gosh Scepti...they have all this evidence against us, they must be right.

Yep, they are all accomplished astronomers now and can actually see astronauts repairing the space station and everything. It's so ludicrous it makes me giggle like a kid.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 11:14:34 AM

The ISS is supposed to be travelling at 17,000 mph and can do something like 16 orbits a day and these clever amateurs manage to capture it clearly as a shape of light.
Does anyone seriously believe something like this, illuminated by the so called sun, travlling at 17,000 mph would show up in a telescope like this from a distance of 230 supposed miles.

For all those scpetics looking in, please don't fall for this clap trap.

Seriously? Have you ever operated a camera? Have you ever TRIED seeing the ISS at night? Ugh. This makes me sick. This isn't even an argument. You're just rewording certain details to make them sound laughable, only making yourself sound laughable, because you clearly haven't tried imaging the ISS, because of your faith that it doesn't exist. But it does. And if you point a $200 telescope at it one clear night, you will see it. Until then, you are just spouting nonsense.

I hope you realize, sceptimatic, that shutter speeds upwards of 1/4000 of a second were used. And I hope you realize, that over 500 images were taken, and this was the only one that wasn't completely blurry. I also hope you realize, that there is something called a Star Tracker Mount. You're not convincing anyone but yourself.

I'm not after convincing anyone. You're trying to convince me of your bullshit and I'm just sat here amused at your desperate attempts to sell what should be clear to anyone with a brain, is clear and utter bullshit.

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 11:24:40 AM

Gosh Scepti...they have all this evidence against us, they must be right.

Yep, they are all accomplished astronomers now and can actually see astronauts repairing the space station and everything. It's so ludicrous it makes me giggle like a kid.

I'm not after convincing anyone. You're trying to convince me of your bullshit and I'm just sat here amused at your desperate attempts to sell what should be clear to anyone with a brain, is clear and utter bullshit.

This is what he does when he gets cornered. He fails to refute any of our points, and he resorts to giggling and not confirming anything himself like he so often pleas us to do.

Let me do what you do to me: saying it's bullshit does not make it so.

Quote from: LuggerSailor on November 29, 2014, 11:38:10 AM

Obviously, the last thing that any member of this "Zetetic" society would do is go have a look themselves.

Making up cr@p is the easy option.

A look where?

And with this failure at comprehending the English language, he attempts to derail the entire argument.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 11:14:34 AM

The ISS is supposed to be travelling at 17,000 mph and can do something like 16 orbits a day and these clever amateurs manage to capture it clearly as a shape of light.
Does anyone seriously believe something like this, illuminated by the so called sun, travlling at 17,000 mph would show up in a telescope like this from a distance of 230 supposed miles.

For all those scpetics looking in, please don't fall for this clap trap.

Obviously, the last thing that any member of this "Zetetic" society would do is go have a look themselves.

Making up cr@p is the easy option.

A look where?

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 11:42:41 AM

Quote from: Yendor on November 29, 2014, 11:24:40 AM

Gosh Scepti...they have all this evidence against us, they must be right.

Yep, they are all accomplished astronomers now and can actually see astronauts repairing the space station and everything. It's so ludicrous it makes me giggle like a kid.

Quote from: sceptimatic on November 29, 2014, 11:46:22 AM

I'm not after convincing anyone. You're trying to convince me of your bullshit and I'm just sat here amused at your desperate attempts to sell what should be clear to anyone with a brain, is clear and utter bullshit.

This is what he does when he gets cornered. He fails to refute any of our points, and he resorts to giggling and not confirming anything himself like he so often pleas us to do.

Let me do what you do to me: saying it's bullshit does not make it so.

Cornered? I'm encircled and still standing upright, because none of you can refute what I'm saying, except to try desperately to hang on.