For the sake of humanity, please...

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on April 10, 2014, 09:26:56 AM

I'll stop when you RE'ers stop with your "99.999% of the world thinks it's round".
I went Flat Earth when I came to my senses.
jroa doesn't pay me, what a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
Why would you assume there is lying involved?

When you become a flat earther, do you have to get some kind of passive-aggressive training first?

Anyway, I know for a fact that jroa pays you 3p per post.

You're right.

I pay th3rm0m3t3r0 out of the tee-shirt money.  Your money goes to good use. 

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I don't think it's about teaching them one side or the other. What you should teach them, is to open their own mind and explore other avenues, then let them see which avenue opens up a more logical reality.

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I don't think it's about teaching them one side or the other. What you should teach them, is to open their own mind and explore other avenues, then let them see which avenue opens up a more logical reality.

The child just discovered that the tooth fairy, Santa Clause and the Easter bunny does not exist. Let them grow up before saying they can think by themselves.

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

That's an interesting take on it. Though I'd argue that the concept of deducing the shape and size of earth would be an excellent topic to introduce concepts of scientific observation, experimentation, deduction, and hypothesis testing. The youngest of children love to ask how we know the information we're teaching them is correct, how we got from one view of the natural world to another.

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

That's an interesting take on it. Though I'd argue that the concept of deducing the shape and size of earth would be an excellent topic to introduce concepts of scientific observation, experimentation, deduction, and hypothesis testing. The youngest of children love to ask how we know the information we're teaching them is correct, how we got from one view of the natural world to another.

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

Why don't you  just teach the children the truth?  It should be easy enough. 

Why don't you  just teach the children the truth?  It should be easy enough.

The truth is that all the other children will learn that the earth is round and that is the truth. Either way you don't represent the truth. If the parent would browse sites for racialism and terrorism that would say it is the truth also. Keep kids out of extreme ideas.

The child just discovered that the tooth fairy, Santa Clause and the Easter bunny does not exist. Let them grow up before saying they can think by themselves.

They are under obligation by law not to think for themselves as children. It's called mainstream schooling. The parents of those children were schooled in the same way, so in the main, those childrens lives are already mapped out for them.
Those who go against that obligatory system, are punished, because exam results require answers to questions based on misinformation and best guesses, which must be answered by the same system of answers that the schools have before them.

Questions to school kids on examination sheet.

1: What shape is the Earth?
Indoctrinate: A globe.
Free thinker: Flat.
School protocol= Indoctrinate 1...free thinker 0

2. Is Earth spinning?
Indoctrinate: Yes.
Free thinker: No.
School protocol= indoctrinate 2...free thinker 0

3. Give reasons as to why you think the way you do.

Indoctrinate: Books and tutoring has taught me that the Earth rotates at 1038 mph at the equator and pictures of Earth seem from space craft show a globe, so this must be the correct shape.
Free thinker: No direct evidence has proven the Earth to be a globe nor spinning. I look up at the sky and see the sun, stars and other things moving whilst my own body does not tell me that I am in any way moving. My balance would indicate that I am moving, which it does not. The horizon looks flat and level, which tells me that we cannot be living on a globe.

School protocol= Indoctrinate 3 free thinker 0.

Indoctrinate scores top marks ensuring the next step of college to university to a life of whatever choosing, in whatever direction that protocol allows.
Free thinker scores zero and is known as a weirdo who is probably a rebel to the system or just simply suffering from ADHD or some other similar type deficit of their mind. A rogue to the system with potential to become dangerous or disruptive to the ongoing developement of the scientific world. Destined to potentially spend time in mental institutions or jail, fall into drugs.

It doesn't pay to tell your child to go against protocol. It does pay to tell them to follow the protocol route but keep in their own mind a thought to actually do some thinking for themselves. That's all that's needed to be said.
The scientific world and people on here tell you that scientists are always going against theories. You can clearly see in life that this is not the case. You follow protocol or you're a nutter. It's as simple as that.

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:54:37 AM

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

That's an interesting take on it. Though I'd argue that the concept of deducing the shape and size of earth would be an excellent topic to introduce concepts of scientific observation, experimentation, deduction, and hypothesis testing. The youngest of children love to ask how we know the information we're teaching them is correct, how we got from one view of the natural world to another.

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

Sorry, I should have clarified what age group I'm I envisioning here, I'm thinking about 6th grade or so, 11 or 12 years old. At this age, kids in most public schools are already exposed to geometry, algebra, astronomy, and concepts of classical physics even. Depending on the school, they may have already had exposure to these subjects and the surly some level of scientific investigation at even younger ages.

Scepti... These ideas are to confusing for a child. You should know better. It is like giving kids guns and tell them it is ok to think for themselves.

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 05:03:42 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:54:37 AM

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

That's an interesting take on it. Though I'd argue that the concept of deducing the shape and size of earth would be an excellent topic to introduce concepts of scientific observation, experimentation, deduction, and hypothesis testing. The youngest of children love to ask how we know the information we're teaching them is correct, how we got from one view of the natural world to another.

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

Sorry, I should have clarified what age group I'm I envisioning here, I'm thinking about 6th grade or so, 11 or 12 years old. At this age, kids in most public schools are already exposed to geometry, algebra, astronomy, and concepts of classical physics even. Depending on the school, they may have already had exposure to these subjects and the surly some level of scientific investigation at even younger ages.

At that age don't confuse them that what they have learned is wrong because it is not. The concept of a flat earth is very complicate for them to understand. You would have to explain gravity does not exist and the flat earth is acceleration at 1 g to the 99.9999% to speed of light and never reach it. Also the south pole is a big wall of ice and if you go there your will die. Does that make sense to a 12 year old.

Let them continue gathering knowledge in a healthy way.

Scepti... These ideas are to confusing for a child. You should know better. It is like giving kids guns and tell them it is ok to think for themselves.

Kids used to play cowboys and Indians and Japs and Commandoes, etc, with toy guns. They didn't go looking for a real gun or get a kitchen knife to go and stab some one to death in case their gun ran out of mouthed noise bullets. They always allowed the dead person to count to ten after doing a spectacular fall after being rat a tatt tatted.

If it was a sword fight, it was done with little twigs or something that wasn't dangerous. They didn't run in ther homes and drag a sword from the shield hanging on the wall. You had the chance to think for yourself. You made up many scenarios. You were aware of hurting each other. It was mutual.

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 05:18:41 AM

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 05:03:42 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:54:37 AM

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

That's an interesting take on it. Though I'd argue that the concept of deducing the shape and size of earth would be an excellent topic to introduce concepts of scientific observation, experimentation, deduction, and hypothesis testing. The youngest of children love to ask how we know the information we're teaching them is correct, how we got from one view of the natural world to another.

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

Sorry, I should have clarified what age group I'm I envisioning here, I'm thinking about 6th grade or so, 11 or 12 years old. At this age, kids in most public schools are already exposed to geometry, algebra, astronomy, and concepts of classical physics even. Depending on the school, they may have already had exposure to these subjects and the surly some level of scientific investigation at even younger ages.

At that age don't confuse them that what they have learned is wrong because it is not. The concept of a flat earth is very complicate for them to understand. You would have to explain gravity does not exist and the flat earth is acceleration at 1 g to the 99.9999% to speed of light and never reach it. Also the south pole is a big wall of ice and if you go there your will die. Does that make sense to a 12 year old.

Let them continue gathering knowledge in a healthy way.

If they weren't told the Earth was a rotating globe to start with and had choices, then things would be different. We would be at the truth by now if it was done that way.
Instead, it's a globe or you're a stark raving dangerous lunatic. It's pathetic.

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 05:18:41 AM

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 05:03:42 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:54:37 AM

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

That's an interesting take on it. Though I'd argue that the concept of deducing the shape and size of earth would be an excellent topic to introduce concepts of scientific observation, experimentation, deduction, and hypothesis testing. The youngest of children love to ask how we know the information we're teaching them is correct, how we got from one view of the natural world to another.

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

Sorry, I should have clarified what age group I'm I envisioning here, I'm thinking about 6th grade or so, 11 or 12 years old. At this age, kids in most public schools are already exposed to geometry, algebra, astronomy, and concepts of classical physics even. Depending on the school, they may have already had exposure to these subjects and the surly some level of scientific investigation at even younger ages.

At that age don't confuse them that what they have learned is wrong because it is not. The concept of a flat earth is very complicate for them to understand. You would have to explain gravity does not exist and the flat earth is acceleration at 1 g to the 99.9999% to speed of light and never reach it. Also the south pole is a big wall of ice and if you go there your will die. Does that make sense to a 12 year old.

Let them continue gathering knowledge in a healthy way.

I think you might be taking the concept to an extreme - what I'm suggesting for these hypothetical 6th graders is an introduction to the topic of scientific observation, hypothesis testing, and deduction and using the investigation of earth's shape and size as a vehicle for this.

For instance, I think an excellent place to start is with the concept of the null hypothesis (i.e. establishing that neither FE or RE is the null hypothesis, and that the burden of proof is on the one asserting any model of earth, not just one model vs another - that's where things get complicated, fitting data to multiple models).

From there, Eratosthene's research into differences in the lengths of shadows cast at different points on the earth on the same day at the same time would serve as a good example of literature research and forming a hypothesis, and his experiments to determine the diameter of the earth serves as a great example of hypothesis testing through experimentation.

12 year olds can grasp this stuff, these were the earliest experiments that systematically examined the nature of earth's shape, so they tend to also be the simplest.

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:54:37 AM

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

That's an interesting take on it. Though I'd argue that the concept of deducing the shape and size of earth would be an excellent topic to introduce concepts of scientific observation, experimentation, deduction, and hypothesis testing. The youngest of children love to ask how we know the information we're teaching them is correct, how we got from one view of the natural world to another.

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

I completely disagree with you. Kids aren't as stupid as you make them sound.

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 05:03:42 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:54:37 AM

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: TheodorusOfSamos on April 13, 2014, 04:30:13 AM

Hi, I may be a newbie on this forum, but I've been reading through the current topics and many of the older discussions to help me get an insight into how people from different backgrounds and prospectives understand the process of science, how they interpret the meaning of the scientific method, and how well people understand how the scientific community has constructed our understanding of the natural world. The OP and the early responses to the post caught my eye for a different reason and I'd like to expand on it:

>>>>>If you were a parent, how would you react if your child (whether they are young or adult now) one day professes that they believe that the shape of earth is different from your view of it. And what would you do if they intend to teach their belief in a FE or RE to their own children? This applies to FE and RE alike.<<<<<

I'm really interested to hear how people from both sides feel about this.

Cheers!

I would definitely would not confuse a child to even introduce the idea the earth is flat. In school the child will be introduced to geography and some science. Let the school system do their job of educating our children. The idea that the earth is flat a very extreme concept. Not a place for kids.

That's an interesting take on it. Though I'd argue that the concept of deducing the shape and size of earth would be an excellent topic to introduce concepts of scientific observation, experimentation, deduction, and hypothesis testing. The youngest of children love to ask how we know the information we're teaching them is correct, how we got from one view of the natural world to another.

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

I completely disagree with you. Kids aren't as stupid as you make them sound.

There are adults here that can't understand why the earth is round and now you want to confuse kids with the concept that the FES has proof it is flat. I don't see the idea of asking kids to think in terms of proving reality exist or we could be living in flat world. Yes they are smart but not wise. They are still not mature enough to think in believing about things they have not seen. Instead of teaching why the earth could be flat why not teach them why some people "think" why it is. Either way it is not my kid and it will not be my problem.

Why don't you just teach them to think for themselves? 

Why don't you just teach them to think for themselves?

We do. We also teach them facts and the fact is that the earth is a sphere.

Humanity is a society and the our progressive efforts are a collective affair. Science and technology progress because we don't need to keep reinventing the wheel.

Quote from: jroa on April 13, 2014, 06:03:10 AM

Why don't you just teach them to think for themselves?

We do. We also teach them facts and the fact is that the earth is a sphere.

Humanity is a society and the our progressive efforts are a collective affair. Science and technology progress because we don't need to keep reinventing the wheel.

How do you teach Geography without a map of the world?

Quote from: rottingroom on April 13, 2014, 06:07:41 AM

Quote from: jroa on April 13, 2014, 06:03:10 AM

Why don't you just teach them to think for themselves?

We do. We also teach them facts and the fact is that the earth is a sphere.

Humanity is a society and the our progressive efforts are a collective affair. Science and technology progress because we don't need to keep reinventing the wheel.

How do you teach Geography without a map of the world?

You must sharing a drink with Jroa.

Would anyone care to comment on my response to Starman? I've pasted the truncated thread below:

......
 

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 05:26:10 AM

At that age don't confuse them that what they have learned is wrong because it is not. The concept of a flat earth is very complicate for them to understand. You would have to explain gravity does not exist and the flat earth is acceleration at 1 g to the 99.9999% to speed of light and never reach it. Also the south pole is a big wall of ice and if you go there your will die. Does that make sense to a 12 year old.

Let them continue gathering knowledge in a healthy way.

I think you might be taking the concept to an extreme - what I'm suggesting for these hypothetical 6th graders is an introduction to the topic of scientific observation, hypothesis testing, and deduction and using the investigation of earth's shape and size as a vehicle for this.

For instance, I think an excellent place to start is with the concept of the null hypothesis (i.e. establishing that neither FE or RE is the null hypothesis, and that the burden of proof is on the one asserting any model of earth, not just one model vs another - that's where things get complicated, fitting data to multiple models).

From there, Eratosthene's research into differences in the lengths of shadows cast at different points on the earth on the same day at the same time would serve as a good example of literature research and forming a hypothesis, and his experiments to determine the diameter of the earth serves as a great example of hypothesis testing through experimentation.

12 year olds can grasp this stuff, these were the earliest experiments that systematically examined the nature of earth's shape, so they tend to also be the simplest.

Why don't you just teach them to think for themselves?

You can but they still need guidance. If a kid see violence, people high on drugs or pornography on the internet they will think it is normal and it is the way the should be. Some kids will not learn morals in the right way. You just can't let kids grown up with no guidance.

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

Exactly why they shouldn't be teaching them about the Earth at such a young age.  Most kids don't question ANY of that until they are older.  They are putting ideas into very impreshionable minds!

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 05:03:42 AM

I don't know what age you are talking about but a child can only understand things to a certain amount. You can't describe gravity and why it keeps us in orbit the sun to a child. The concept is beyond their understanding. Also the child will be with other children and if extreme ideas are introduce the child will be made fun of.

Exactly why they shouldn't be teaching them about the Earth at such a young age.  Most kids don't question ANY of that until they are older.  They are putting ideas into very impreshionable minds!

That idea is like: "lets teach kids what drugs is all about by giving them some and that can decide for themselves it if for them or not." How about sex. Tell them they are too young for sex but they should try it and they can decide for themselves if it is for them.

They are under obligation by law not to think for themselves as children. It's called mainstream schooling. The parents of those children were schooled in the same way, so in the main, those childrens lives are already mapped out for them.
Those who go against that obligatory system, are punished, because exam results require answers to questions based on misinformation and best guesses, which must be answered by the same system of answers that the schools have before them.

Questions to school kids on examination sheet.

1: What shape is the Earth?
Indoctrinate: A globe.
Free thinker: Flat.
School protocol= Indoctrinate 1...free thinker 0

2. Is Earth spinning?
Indoctrinate: Yes.
Free thinker: No.
School protocol= indoctrinate 2...free thinker 0

3. Give reasons as to why you think the way you do.

Indoctrinate: Books and tutoring has taught me that the Earth rotates at 1038 mph at the equator and pictures of Earth seem from space craft show a globe, so this must be the correct shape.
Free thinker: No direct evidence has proven the Earth to be a globe nor spinning. I look up at the sky and see the sun, stars and other things moving whilst my own body does not tell me that I am in any way moving. My balance would indicate that I am moving, which it does not. The horizon looks flat and level, which tells me that we cannot be living on a globe.

School protocol= Indoctrinate 3 free thinker 0.

Indoctrinate scores top marks ensuring the next step of college to university to a life of whatever choosing, in whatever direction that protocol allows.
Free thinker scores zero and is known as a weirdo who is probably a rebel to the system or just simply suffering from ADHD or some other similar type deficit of their mind. A rogue to the system with potential to become dangerous or disruptive to the ongoing developement of the scientific world. Destined to potentially spend time in mental institutions or jail, fall into drugs.

It doesn't pay to tell your child to go against protocol. It does pay to tell them to follow the protocol route but keep in their own mind a thought to actually do some thinking for themselves. That's all that's needed to be said.
The scientific world and people on here tell you that scientists are always going against theories. You can clearly see in life that this is not the case. You follow protocol or you're a nutter. It's as simple as that.

WELL SAID!

Scepti... These ideas are to confusing for a child. You should know better. It is like giving kids guns and tell them it is ok to think for themselves.

But men do give their kids guns in elementary school.  I know a 9 year old who got a rifle for Christmas.  AND his family actually ENCOURAGES him to join the military when he's older.  Pretty messed up if you ask me.

Quote from: Starman on April 13, 2014, 04:46:38 AM

The child just discovered that the tooth fairy, Santa Clause and the Easter bunny does not exist. Let them grow up before saying they can think by themselves.

They are under obligation by law not to think for themselves as children. It's called mainstream schooling. The parents of those children were schooled in the same way, so in the main, those childrens lives are already mapped out for them.
Those who go against that obligatory system, are punished, because exam results require answers to questions based on misinformation and best guesses, which must be answered by the same system of answers that the schools have before them.

Questions to school kids on examination sheet.

1: What shape is the Earth?
Indoctrinate: A globe.
Free thinker: Flat.
School protocol= Indoctrinate 1...free thinker 0

2. Is Earth spinning?
Indoctrinate: Yes.
Free thinker: No.
School protocol= indoctrinate 2...free thinker 0

3. Give reasons as to why you think the way you do.

Indoctrinate: Books and tutoring has taught me that the Earth rotates at 1038 mph at the equator and pictures of Earth seem from space craft show a globe, so this must be the correct shape.
Free thinker: No direct evidence has proven the Earth to be a globe nor spinning. I look up at the sky and see the sun, stars and other things moving whilst my own body does not tell me that I am in any way moving. My balance would indicate that I am moving, which it does not. The horizon looks flat and level, which tells me that we cannot be living on a globe.

School protocol= Indoctrinate 3 free thinker 0.

Indoctrinate scores top marks ensuring the next step of college to university to a life of whatever choosing, in whatever direction that protocol allows.
Free thinker scores zero and is known as a weirdo who is probably a rebel to the system or just simply suffering from ADHD or some other similar type deficit of their mind. A rogue to the system with potential to become dangerous or disruptive to the ongoing developement of the scientific world. Destined to potentially spend time in mental institutions or jail, fall into drugs.

It doesn't pay to tell your child to go against protocol. It does pay to tell them to follow the protocol route but keep in their own mind a thought to actually do some thinking for themselves. That's all that's needed to be said.
The scientific world and people on here tell you that scientists are always going against theories. You can clearly see in life that this is not the case. You follow protocol or you're a nutter. It's as simple as that.

One who think the world is flat is not a free thinker. It's just a moron. Nothing more.

Why do you waste your time writing this incoherent garbage?