Denpressure fails again.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 11, 2014, 04:09:39 AM

Quote from: Jer9999 on April 11, 2014, 04:07:25 AM

Since there aren't many American bands there, can we get the Great Leader to come to our gigs?

I'm not that powerful. If he takes a liking to your music he could summon you to his place and have you play for him on special occasions.

Yes, I understand sometime he get's #ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">so ronery that he needs to have a few friends round.

He's actually never ronery, he always has frends around, unless he goes to the toilet, then he likes to be alone, or when he's in the bath sometimes.

but there's pressure under my arm too. But ok, then why doesn't my whole body feel like it's being squeezed all day long?

Your body does. You just don't appreciate that it does because your mind and body are geared to using it to survive. It becomes part of you. You are equalised to it in the main until you use an action against it, as in taking a breath (action) and your are squeezed to exhale (reaction).
Your body is working against it all the time. Everything in your body is under action/reaction pressure.
Your heart is under it and you feel it as a beat. It fills with blood which expands it and it's crushed back, it's a fight on fight like everything on Earth.

Sure man. I would love to come. Are you going to spread the FET doctrine over there? Does The Great Leader approve of it?

No, I'll leave that up to the people to decide. It's not my deal to alter their thinking. I am classed as an outsider even though I'm still regarded as a citizen, so I am under rules as well as any foreigner who comes in. I will be assigned a guide, usually female. She's not there to order me about, she will be there to accompany us to make sure we do not attempt to break strict rules over certain things.
It's not as bad as you imagine and there's no animousity. They are very humble people in the main and do know how to have fun and laugh.
Pay no attention to the aggressive way she talks to you whilst pointing her Tommy gun at you. It's just used as a pointing stick.
Just kidding.

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 11, 2014, 05:14:21 AM

but there's pressure under my arm too. But ok, then why doesn't my whole body feel like it's being squeezed all day long?

Your body does. You just don't appreciate that it does because your mind and body are geared to using it to survive. It becomes part of you. You are equalised to it in the main until you use an action against it, as in taking a breath (action) and your are squeezed to exhale (reaction).
Your body is working against it all the time. Everything in your body is under action/reaction pressure.
Your heart is under it and you feel it as a beat. It fills with blood which expands it and it's crushed back, it's a fight on fight like everything on Earth.

So, my brain and body are geared to account for the pressure when doing something nominal like breathing, but when doing something equally nominal, like holding an arm up, it isn't?

Shouldn't everyone have the same blood pressure in a given area, if it's a result of air pressure around us?

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 11, 2014, 05:20:19 AM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 11, 2014, 05:14:21 AM

but there's pressure under my arm too. But ok, then why doesn't my whole body feel like it's being squeezed all day long?

Your body does. You just don't appreciate that it does because your mind and body are geared to using it to survive. It becomes part of you. You are equalised to it in the main until you use an action against it, as in taking a breath (action) and your are squeezed to exhale (reaction).
Your body is working against it all the time. Everything in your body is under action/reaction pressure.
Your heart is under it and you feel it as a beat. It fills with blood which expands it and it's crushed back, it's a fight on fight like everything on Earth.

So, my brain and body are geared to account for the pressure when doing something nominal like breathing, but when doing something equally nominal, like holding an arm up, it isn't?

Shouldn't everyone have the same blood pressure in a given area, if it's a result of air pressure around us?

Most people do have similar blood pressure in the same places. In other places it will be different, depending on altitude.
Smaller people and larger people can differ slightly.
As for your brain. Your brain is protected by a thick skull.
You talk about something nominal like breathing. It's only nominal to you because your body is stronger than you imagine. It's geared to working in that pressure.
If you and live at a higher altitude your body will go into a struggling mode because it's used to the pressure it was under and you now have to accimatise it to the lesser pressure acting upon it.

Quote from: Jer9999 on April 11, 2014, 05:14:29 AM

Sure man. I would love to come. Are you going to spread the FET doctrine over there? Does The Great Leader approve of it?

No, I'll leave that up to the people to decide. It's not my deal to alter their thinking. I am classed as an outsider even though I'm still regarded as a citizen, so I am under rules as well as any foreigner who comes in. I will be assigned a guide, usually female. She's not there to order me about, she will be there to accompany us to make sure we do not attempt to break strict rules over certain things.
It's not as bad as you imagine and there's no animousity. They are very humble people in the main and do know how to have fun and laugh.
Pay no attention to the aggressive way she talks to you whilst pointing her Tommy gun at you. It's just used as a pointing stick.
Just kidding.

I really would love to go. I told you I sent 4.5 years in China where I met the ministry of postage there for North Korea. No joke. I really want to go to n Korea.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 11, 2014, 05:27:07 AM

Quote from: Jer9999 on April 11, 2014, 05:14:29 AM

Sure man. I would love to come. Are you going to spread the FET doctrine over there? Does The Great Leader approve of it?

No, I'll leave that up to the people to decide. It's not my deal to alter their thinking. I am classed as an outsider even though I'm still regarded as a citizen, so I am under rules as well as any foreigner who comes in. I will be assigned a guide, usually female. She's not there to order me about, she will be there to accompany us to make sure we do not attempt to break strict rules over certain things.
It's not as bad as you imagine and there's no animousity. They are very humble people in the main and do know how to have fun and laugh.
Pay no attention to the aggressive way she talks to you whilst pointing her Tommy gun at you. It's just used as a pointing stick.
Just kidding.

I really would love to go. I told you I sent 4.5 years in China where I met the ministry of postage there for North Korea. No joke. I really want to go to n Korea.

I'll do my best to help you. If it all works out then you can at least tell these people that I am what I am and who I said I was, plus it's an experience you will likely never get again.

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 11, 2014, 05:29:21 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 11, 2014, 05:20:19 AM

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 11, 2014, 05:14:21 AM

but there's pressure under my arm too. But ok, then why doesn't my whole body feel like it's being squeezed all day long?

Your body does. You just don't appreciate that it does because your mind and body are geared to using it to survive. It becomes part of you. You are equalised to it in the main until you use an action against it, as in taking a breath (action) and your are squeezed to exhale (reaction).
Your body is working against it all the time. Everything in your body is under action/reaction pressure.
Your heart is under it and you feel it as a beat. It fills with blood which expands it and it's crushed back, it's a fight on fight like everything on Earth.

So, my brain and body are geared to account for the pressure when doing something nominal like breathing, but when doing something equally nominal, like holding an arm up, it isn't?

Shouldn't everyone have the same blood pressure in a given area, if it's a result of air pressure around us?

Most people do have similar blood pressure in the same places. In other places it will be different, depending on altitude.
Smaller people and larger people can differ slightly.
As for your brain. Your brain is protected by a thick skull.
You talk about something nominal like breathing. It's only nominal to you because your body is stronger than you imagine. It's geared to working in that pressure.
If you and live at a higher altitude your body will go into a struggling mode because it's used to the pressure it was under and you now have to accimatise it to the lesser pressure acting upon it.

Well, my arm is part of my body, and my body is used to doing it, then my arm shouldn't get tired. Also, since there is LESS pressure at higher elevations, shouldnt it be EASIER to do things, not more difficult/strenuous?

Well, my arm is part of my body, and my body is used to doing it, then my arm shouldn't get tired. Also, since there is LESS pressure at higher elevations, shouldnt it be EASIER to do things, not more difficult/strenuous?

Your arms normal position when at rest are hanging down your sides. To do work you have to move them against pressure. If you raise your arm you are pushing gainst that pressure which will try and push your arm back down to your side. Only your energy/force can stop that happening until you start to lose some of it, in which case the pressure will win and force it down.

At higher elevations, it's still action/reaction and your body requires more energy to raise your arm against the lesser pressure because it has to take in more air to keep your arm energy up against the less pressure. Your body is build and geared for your environment. If that changes, then your body has to do more work to equalise it. That's why you feel weaker at higher alititudes, so the change is negated.

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 11, 2014, 05:56:16 AM

Well, my arm is part of my body, and my body is used to doing it, then my arm shouldn't get tired. Also, since there is LESS pressure at higher elevations, shouldnt it be EASIER to do things, not more difficult/strenuous?

Your arms normal position when at rest are hanging down your sides. To do work you have to move them against pressure. If you raise your arm you are pushing gainst that pressure which will try and push your arm back down to your side. Only your energy/force can stop that happening until you start to lose some of it, in which case the pressure will win and force it down.

At higher elevations, it's still action/reaction and your body requires more energy to raise your arm against the lesser pressure because it has to take in more air to keep your arm energy up against the less pressure. Your body is build and geared for your environment. If that changes, then your body has to do more work to equalise it. That's why you feel weaker at higher alititudes, so the change is negated.

Why would my body require more energy, to do the same action, under less pressure? Also, if my arms are moving as part of any other normal movement,they never get tired, say with like, walking. I've never heard of a sprinter complain that their arms are tired

When a flying bird takes a shit, its shit drops to the ground.

Please explain why a falling birds shit likes dropping on the ground.

Lets suppose that this bird was flying at 15,000 FT before lowering its altitude to about 5000 FT just before it took its creamy shit.

Why would my body require more energy, to do the same action, under less pressure? Also, if my arms are moving as part of any other normal movement,they never get tired, say with like, walking. I've never heard of a sprinter complain that their arms are tired

Your body has to use more energy to process the thinner air it's taking in, so to do that it will start to shut you down to a workable point where your body acclimatises to it.
It's like your car. If you start to block the air intake, your car starts to splutter and it gets weaker under acceleration. Your body is no different in terms of outcome, just the means.

When you're walking you are hardly bending your things, so basically you are not kneeing the pressure away from you as much as you would be when running.
Your arms if you notice when walking, are down your sides most of the time and swng very little so naturally it will be a long time before they tire, as opposed to your legs, because your  feet are carrying all the pressure against the solid ground.

When you run, you will notice that you run by balancing your arms with your running stride so you have them bent at the elbow but also you are fisting the air on each stroke which is more easily overcome due to your fist size as opposed to your things which have a lot more air to displace, not to mention your feet being slammed into the surface with every stride, which uses up all your muscles.

When a flying bird takes a shit, its shit drops to the ground.

Please explain why a falling birds shit likes dropping on the ground.

Lets suppose that this bird was flying at 15,000 FT before lowering its altitude to about 5000 FT just before it took its creamy shit.

The birds energy took that denser than air crap up there and crapped it out, so that crap displaces the air it's in and creates a push against the air above which pushes down against the air below and through the air at the sides. Because the crap is not using any energy to fight against thet downward pressure it's pushed all the way to the ground as its density overcomes the weaker resistance.

Quote from: rottingroom on April 11, 2014, 06:09:09 AM

When a flying bird takes a shit, its shit drops to the ground.

Please explain why a falling birds shit likes dropping on the ground.

Lets suppose that this bird was flying at 15,000 FT before lowering its altitude to about 5000 FT just before it took its creamy shit.

The birds energy took that denser than air crap up there and crapped it out, so that crap displaces the air it's in and creates a push against the air above which pushes down against the air below and through the air at the sides. Because the crap is not using any energy to fight against thet downward pressure it's pushed all the way to the ground as its density overcomes the weaker resistance.

1) Why does a bird require energy to get "up there"? Why would it require less energy to go back. Or, to make you less nit-picky, why would it require less energy to fly from a perch on a cliff to the base of the cliff.

2) No air was displaced below the bird or the crap. The bird flew from 15,000 FT to 5000 FT. The only air that was displaced was air above and behind the bird.

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 11, 2014, 06:08:19 AM

Why would my body require more energy, to do the same action, under less pressure? Also, if my arms are moving as part of any other normal movement,they never get tired, say with like, walking. I've never heard of a sprinter complain that their arms are tired

Your body has to use more energy to process the thinner air it's taking in, so to do that it will start to shut you down to a workable point where your body acclimatises to it.
It's like your car. If you start to block the air intake, your car starts to splutter and it gets weaker under acceleration. Your body is no different in terms of outcome, just the means.

When you're walking you are hardly bending your things, so basically you are not kneeing the pressure away from you as much as you would be when running.
Your arms if you notice when walking, are down your sides most of the time and swng very little so naturally it will be a long time before they tire, as opposed to your legs, because your  feet are carrying all the pressure against the solid ground.

When you run, you will notice that you run by balancing your arms with your running stride so you have them bent at the elbow but also you are fisting the air on each stroke which is more easily overcome due to your fist size as opposed to your things which have a lot more air to displace, not to mention your feet being slammed into the surface with every stride, which uses up all your muscles.

So it's not the PRESSURE that's making it more difficult, it's my body's inability to process the lower level of oxygen that's in the air surrounding me

edit: and true correct form for running appears to be an open hand, rotating at the shoulders, not a closed "fisting the air" motion

1) Why does a bird require energy to get "up there"?

To get up there a bird has to overcome the pressure with its own density. Because it has big wings, it can spread them our against the air pressure underneath and push lots of it out of the way which forces it up against the air above. It does this by closing its wings and straightening it's beak to look like a missile so it can overcome the pressure and friction from above. The second that friction slows it, it's wings come back out like an oar on a rowing boat where the wing twists to slice through the above air pressure, then twists again to make it's volume larger for the next push, as so on.
The smaller winged birds do the same only extremely fast.

1)  Why would it require less energy to go back. Or, to make you less nit-picky, why would it require less energy to fly from a perch on a cliff to the base of the cliff.

The opposite of what I said about flying upwards. The bird can parachute down by holding its wings out and spreading its feathers, then it can use the force of the air against it by gliding down slowly by the same twisting motion using the friction under its own density with the pressure above it to play one against the other to create a lift then fall and lift then fall, or it can use any wind against it to create a lift and hover. It depends on many variations.
If it wanted to simply get to the bottom quick, it just slices it's wings through the air resistance below it by folding them back until it wants to land, then opens them right up to prachute down to the bottom.
A sky diver  with a parachute will do the same thing in a fashion, except a sky diver is much denser. If he/she wants to go faster downwards, the fold their arms down their sides and point their heads down to create less resistance against their mass.

2) No air was displaced below the bird or the crap. The bird flew from 15,000 FT to 5000 FT. The only air that was displaced was air above and behind the bird.

The bird and the crap displaced the air. Once you pick up any object and put it into the atmosphere, that object displaces air. If you use energy to put something into the air, the air will push it back, always, because you made it unequal, you put an action into force which requires a reaction. That reaction is against the object and you, until you release that object, then the reaction is against that object, always.

Quote from: hewholikespie on April 10, 2014, 01:11:44 PM

I did the first time. You immediately responded by attempting to beg out of answering them due to a perceived attitude problem on my part. My questions are straightforward, don't involve the numbers you are afraid of, and are relevant to your Denpressure hypothesis.

I asked you to put your questions to me in a civil manner. How you answer is different...but I expect you to put them to me without trying to be clever to impress all your weak internet friends.

If you want to put the questions to me without all the childish silliness, then I'll be happy to answer them. If not, then there's nothing else to say on the matter.

There was no childish silliness. Just you reading motive into a simple question to avoid answering some direct, simple questions. Because you have no answer. Because your hypothesis is meaningless.

I mean, come on, at least make your trolling entertaining for the rest of us.

I'm amazed that you went ahead and said all that without addressing the flaw in your argument. You seem to have different reasons for how things go up and how things go down without recognizing the fact that your theory doesn't imply any reason for there to be a difference.

So it's not the PRESSURE that's making it more difficult, it's my body's inability to process the lower level of oxygen that's in the air surrounding me

Your body will do what it needs to survive. It will shut you down if it doesn't get it's required dose of atmospheric pressure at the pressure it's used to.
If it gets less, it will shut the parts of your body down that uses up much of it, which means your muscles will be weakened to cope. If it's too little, then your body will shut you down completely only leaving its vital organs to take in what is needed, leaving your muscles and part of your brain on stand by. This gives your body time to adjust so it can have you running against the change, so as long as you stay in that environment, you will become weaker than you were but you won't notice it after a while because everything at that altitude will also be different. Sounds crazy I know but it's true.
It's why things weigh lighter at altitude than down at sea level. The weight is onlt relevant to the pressure acting upon the density measured as weight. Can you see what I'm saying.

Put your mind to it, I promise you I'm right about this.

There was no childish silliness. Just you reading motive into a simple question to avoid answering some direct, simple questions. Because you have no answer. Because your hypothesis is meaningless.

I mean, come on, at least make your trolling entertaining for the rest of us.

Take part or don't. I don't care which decision you make. Either put the questions to me in a civil manner or stop going on about them and just sit back and watch. Your choice.

I'm amazed that you went ahead and said all that without addressing the flaw in your argument. You seem to have different reasons for how things go up and how things go down without recognizing the fact that your theory doesn't imply any reason for there to be a difference.

You will have to seriously elaborate on what you're saying. Show me the flaw?

There are no flaws because I'm 100% correct in what I'm saying. Your gravity is a big con. It cannot be explained rationally and mine can.
The most shocking part is why people who are supposedly clued up can hang onto something that can't be explained and scoff at the perfect answer to why things on Earth all work. It beggars belief, it really does.

Quote from: RandomREalist on April 11, 2014, 06:50:23 AM

So it's not the PRESSURE that's making it more difficult, it's my body's inability to process the lower level of oxygen that's in the air surrounding me

Your body will do what it needs to survive. It will shut you down if it doesn't get it's required dose of atmospheric pressure at the pressure it's used to.
If it gets less, it will shut the parts of your body down that uses up much of it, which means your muscles will be weakened to cope. If it's too little, then your body will shut you down completely only leaving its vital organs to take in what is needed, leaving your muscles and part of your brain on stand by. This gives your body time to adjust so it can have you running against the change, so as long as you stay in that environment, you will become weaker than you were but you won't notice it after a while because everything at that altitude will also be different. Sounds crazy I know but it's true.
It's why things weigh lighter at altitude than down at sea level. The weight is onlt relevant to the pressure acting upon the density measured as weight. Can you see what I'm saying.

Put your mind to it, I promise you I'm right about this.

So, people that move to denver, from the ocean, just shut down, completely, until they've "adjusted"? You don't know anything scepti, which is why this is so fun to me. Your body doesn't require pressure to survive, it requires oxygen. Give someone an mask of oxygen, they'll live just fine. Change that mask to co² they'll be dead very quickly, no matter what the pressure is around them.

We don't put athletes in hyperbaric chambers when they're struggling at high altitude, we give them oxygen. The oxygen goes to their lungs, which spreads it through the bloodstream.

Quote from: rottingroom on April 11, 2014, 07:09:33 AM

I'm amazed that you went ahead and said all that without addressing the flaw in your argument. You seem to have different reasons for how things go up and how things go down without recognizing the fact that your theory doesn't imply any reason for there to be a difference.

You will have to seriously elaborate on what you're saying. Show me the flaw?

There are no flaws because I'm 100% correct in what I'm saying. Your gravity is a big con. It cannot be explained rationally and mine can.
The most shocking part is why people who are supposedly clued up can hang onto something that can't be explained and scoff at the perfect answer to why things on Earth all work. It beggars belief, it really does.

You keep saying that it can be explained rationally but it can't. I'm sorry that you don't understand simple things let alone your own crappy theories. Your debpressure makes no sense. I'm 100% sure of this because I am right.

Please forgive my use of your own crappy logic with my last sentence there.

So, people that move to denver, from the ocean, just shut down, completely, until they've "adjusted"? You don't know anything scepti, which is why this is so fun to me. Your body doesn't require pressure to survive, it requires oxygen. Give someone an mask of oxygen, they'll live just fine. Change that mask to co² they'll be dead very quickly, no matter what the pressure is around them.

Oh for crying out loud. Are you seriously saying this after all I've said. So it's simply just a joke to you? What do you think the oxygen is under when it's given to people? I'm simply wasting my time with you.

We don't put athletes in hyperbaric chambers when they're struggling at high altitude, we give them oxygen. The oxygen goes to their lungs, which spreads it through the bloodstream.

I'll tell you what. I'm not going to waste anotehr post on you. Either get real or you will not be replied to, simple as that. No need to reply to this unless you start to use your brain.

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 11, 2014, 07:18:13 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on April 11, 2014, 07:09:33 AM

I'm amazed that you went ahead and said all that without addressing the flaw in your argument. You seem to have different reasons for how things go up and how things go down without recognizing the fact that your theory doesn't imply any reason for there to be a difference.

You will have to seriously elaborate on what you're saying. Show me the flaw?

There are no flaws because I'm 100% correct in what I'm saying. Your gravity is a big con. It cannot be explained rationally and mine can.
The most shocking part is why people who are supposedly clued up can hang onto something that can't be explained and scoff at the perfect answer to why things on Earth all work. It beggars belief, it really does.

You keep saying that it can be explained rationally but it can't. I'm sorry that you don't understand simple things let alone your own crappy theories. Your debpressure makes no sense. I'm 100% sure of this because I am right.

Please forgive my use of your own crappy logic with my last sentence there.

Ok then, have it your way. I'll talk to people who actually can grasp stuff. None of you even try. No need to reply, I'm done with you.

Quote from: rottingroom on April 11, 2014, 07:25:00 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on April 11, 2014, 07:18:13 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on April 11, 2014, 07:09:33 AM

I'm amazed that you went ahead and said all that without addressing the flaw in your argument. You seem to have different reasons for how things go up and how things go down without recognizing the fact that your theory doesn't imply any reason for there to be a difference.

You will have to seriously elaborate on what you're saying. Show me the flaw?

There are no flaws because I'm 100% correct in what I'm saying. Your gravity is a big con. It cannot be explained rationally and mine can.
The most shocking part is why people who are supposedly clued up can hang onto something that can't be explained and scoff at the perfect answer to why things on Earth all work. It beggars belief, it really does.

You keep saying that it can be explained rationally but it can't. I'm sorry that you don't understand simple things let alone your own crappy theories. Your debpressure makes no sense. I'm 100% sure of this because I am right.

Please forgive my use of your own crappy logic with my last sentence there.

Ok then, have it your way. I'll talk to people who actually can grasp stuff. None of you even try. No need to reply, I'm done with you.

Like you said you don't believe in the FE model. You use your own so why would you think you have supporters?

Awe. Poor baby.

In the words of Radiohead's Thom Yorke, "Gravity Always Wins".

Take part or don't. I don't care which decision you make. Either put the questions to me in a civil manner or stop going on about them and just sit back and watch. Your choice.

I know you care quite a bit, Scepti, but just because I'm feeling generous, here are the questions, in a civil manner.

if all elements attempt to find their place, if I dig a hole, and I find a tuber while digging, and I put it at the bottom of the hole after digging, deeper than where I found it, why does the tuber not rise to the level I found it at? Why does the natural state of all things seem to be at the bottom, regardless of its weight/ density/ whatever?

I also have a small experiment for you to weigh in on (pun unavoidable). I have two spring scales. One hangs vertically, the other horizontally. Attached to both are identical cables whose weight is known. The cable hangs over a simple pulley with no notable resistance, so that the end of the cable hangs down.  In both cases, two object of identical shape and weight are hung from each scale, and show the same weight.

Both weights and scales are inside an evacuation chamber, which is then evacuated. How does this evacuation affect both spring scales, one hanging vertically, one horizontally?

Like you said you don't believe in the FE model. You use your own so why would you think you have supporters?

As long as people looking in are using their minds and grasping stuff, then that's all that counts. You and your buddies are nothing.
Anyone on here who decides to use their common sense I have time for. You are not one of them.

Awe. Poor baby.

In the words of Radiohead's Thom Yorke, "Gravity Always Wins".

No such thing as gravity Rotty, No such thing. You've been duped and you ate it all and asked for seconds.