Conflicting rate of curvature?

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sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2013, 11:10:32 PM »
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">LightHouse Rosslare. Panasonic HC-V520 Zoom Test.

Explain how this could happen on a round earth.

tappet:

Thank you!  You saved me all the time it would have taken to find and post that video.  It is perfect proof that The Earth Is Not A Globe!

I wish we knew the distances on those telescopic shots, then calculate curvature from the RET.  It would be so simple to ask the RE believers:  Where Is Your Globe?  Where Is Your Convex Earth?  Where Is Your "Fall"?

Thank's again tappet!


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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2013, 12:03:06 AM »
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">LightHouse Rosslare. Panasonic HC-V520 Zoom Test.

Explain how this could happen on a round earth.

With ease. As I pointed out before, due to the fact that the lighthouse and observer are both stationary, this video only serves to show how inability to see an object because of angular resolution can be overcome with magnification. It does not prove or disprove either a round or flat earth.

BTW, I notice you did not post your other video, the one of the yacht. Pity, as it shows something else which can only happen on a round earth: an object (perhaps I should call it a reference point) which, close up, appears well below the horizon, yet far away appears above the horizon, from the same vantage point. A physical impossibility on a flat earth.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 12:22:42 AM by Scintific Method »
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2013, 12:11:46 AM »
scintific method:

Your video of the ship sailing away over the curvature of the Earth was disproved over 100 years ago.  This is an optical illusion that is EASILY disproved with use of a telescope. 

The ship the sailed "over the hill" was not falling off a slope, it was disappearing from naked eyesight and only APPEARED to sail off down-hill. 

If the ship were at it's maximum distance and had seemed to disappear down the hill, it would return immediately in FULL VIEW if you looked at it through a telescope. 

Did it pick up speed when it started going down hill?  Did the Captain need to apply the brakes?

I think now would be a good time to read some introductory facts, FAQ's and critical documents to FET.  For example if you had read "100 Proofs Earth Is Not A Globe", you would NEVER have tried to prove the Earth was a globe using a video whose premise was proven false before 1900 a.d.

tappet's video is PROOF the Earth can NOT be a globe.  According to the long distance views through those telescopic lenses, there is NO convex angles or fall to the water. 

tappet's video disproves your video.

Your arguments serve only to display your ignorance. I have discussed Rowbotham's 'perspective' and "100 proofs..." previously, and the conclusion was that they were both worthless due to their inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

That video is quite clearly done using a substantial amount of magnification, so the claim that a telescope can restore the hull to view once it has been obscured by the horizon is clearly false. Please bring a better argument next time.

Oh, and I notice you have had nothing to say (yet) regarding my gradients explanation, why is that?

PS. please read my comment on tappet's video.

PPS. You still seem to be confused about which way gravity pulls an object, an opinion I have come to after you wrote this: "Did it pick up speed when it started going down hill?  Did the Captain need to apply the brakes?" I suggest you give some more thought to the meaning of "toward the centre of the earth".
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 12:18:06 AM by Scintific Method »
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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tappet

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2013, 12:33:58 AM »
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">LightHouse Rosslare. Panasonic HC-V520 Zoom Test.

Explain how this could happen on a round earth.

With ease. As I pointed out before, due to the fact that the lighthouse and observer are both stationary, this video only serves to show how inability to see an object because of angular resolution can be overcome with magnification. It does not prove or disprove either a round or flat earth.

As I have asked before show me "sinking ship on flat and glassy sea with no swell " any surf board rider with years of experience would know ships are tiny dots on the horizon when its flat sea's and as the swell increases ships start sinking closer to shore, at this point you will notice you can easily see the ship with your eyes no magnification needed. The bigger the swell the closer the ships are sinking to the shore line. Your video has plenty of swell just check out the bobbing sea birds, check out the lumpy horizon. Why is the film constantly  cut? , how high is the observer, is the observer stationary, to many variables and not "scintific" enough to be of any value.

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tappet

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2013, 12:45:04 AM »
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">LightHouse Rosslare. Panasonic HC-V520 Zoom Test.

Explain how this could happen on a round earth.

tappet:

Thank you!  You saved me all the time it would have taken to find and post that video.  It is perfect proof that The Earth Is Not A Globe!

I wish we knew the distances on those telescopic shots, then calculate curvature from the RET.  It would be so simple to ask the RE believers:  Where Is Your Globe?  Where Is Your Convex Earth?  Where Is Your "Fall"?

Thank's again tappet!



Sixstringthing you might enjoy these.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Panasonic SDR-H40.Zoom test Ship

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Nikon Coolpix P510 zoom test (ship at the sea)

Sixstringthing, when you see a ship sinking on the horizon you do not need magnification they will be very close. When the sea is flat the ship will be so far away you cannot see it with the naked eye you need magnification to bring it into view.

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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2013, 01:24:42 AM »
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">LightHouse Rosslare. Panasonic HC-V520 Zoom Test.

Explain how this could happen on a round earth.

With ease. As I pointed out before, due to the fact that the lighthouse and observer are both stationary, this video only serves to show how inability to see an object because of angular resolution can be overcome with magnification. It does not prove or disprove either a round or flat earth.

As I have asked before show me "sinking ship on flat and glassy sea with no swell " any surf board rider with years of experience would know ships are tiny dots on the horizon when its flat sea's and as the swell increases ships start sinking closer to shore, at this point you will notice you can easily see the ship with your eyes no magnification needed. The bigger the swell the closer the ships are sinking to the shore line. Your video has plenty of swell just check out the bobbing sea birds, check out the lumpy horizon. Why is the film constantly  cut? , how high is the observer, is the observer stationary, to many variables and not "scintific" enough to be of any value.

And as I responded, a 2-4ft swell will not hide a 50ft ship from an observer 20ft+ above the water level. I can understand how you would have the impression of the ships going out of sight closer when the sea is rougher; sitting on a surf board is a very low vantage point, from which it would be easy for a swell to hide a ship. Also a good place to take advantage of favourable refractive effects (such as experienced by Rowbotham at the Bedford Level) when the sea is calm. This has all been discussed elsewhere, but it is worth repeating.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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tappet

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2013, 01:30:03 AM »
I feel I should have asked this earlier. In real life with your eyes have you seen a sinking ship?

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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2013, 01:45:56 AM »
I feel I should have asked this earlier. In real life with your eyes have you seen a sinking ship?

Not a ship, but an oil (gas?) rig. On descent after a very enjoyable flight, I watched as it appeared to approach the horizon (even though my line-of-sight distance to it never changed), 'crest' the horizon, and then sink out of sight behind it. Perhaps a better way to word that would be to say that the horizon appeared to come closer as I descended.

If you can convince me, leaving no doubt in my mind, that this is possible on a flat earth, you might just earn a convert! (maybe ;) )

Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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tappet

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2013, 02:05:21 AM »
I feel I should have asked this earlier. In real life with your eyes have you seen a sinking ship?

Not a ship, but an oil (gas?) rig. On descent after a very enjoyable flight, I watched as it appeared to approach the horizon (even though my line-of-sight distance to it never changed), 'crest' the horizon, and then sink out of sight behind it. Perhaps a better way to word that would be to say that the horizon appeared to come closer as I descended.

If you can convince me, leaving no doubt in my mind, that this is possible on a flat earth, you might just earn a convert! (maybe ;) )



Thanks for being honest.
You misunderstand me. I am not trying to convince you the earth is flat, I honestly have no idea what shape this earth is. I only lurk on this site to learn from flat and round earthers. But if you can find somebody you trust that has seen sinking ship ask them if they needed a scope or just used their eyes. My guess is they will say just with their naked eyes because sinking ships are very easy to see. Once this has been established ask yourself how it could be possible to need to zoom the ships or lighthouse in the video's I posted.

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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2013, 02:44:06 AM »
Apologies for the misunderstanding! I came to this site to see if there was a credible alternative explanation for many of the things that a round earth would account for, such as the 'sinking ship effect'. So far there has been nothing convincing. I have also conducted a number of experiments and observations of my own, and given much thought to the possibility of a flat earth. I even started to formulate my own "flat earth theory"! All that I have achieved in all of this is to become more certain that what we are told is true: the earth is round, not perfectly round, but very close to it.

Go to the lighthouse video, pause it at 9 seconds, then again at 10 seconds. At 9 seconds, the lighthouse is not visible. At 10 seconds, it is visible, 1 pixel wide and about 3-4 pixels high (at the resolution of the posted video, and at the point I paused). If you keep playing until the lighthouse is well zoomed in, you'll see that the lighthouse is about 4 times higher than it is wide. What does this tell me? That the lighthouse has not been obscured in any way, it's just too small to see without magnification. Before the 10 second mark, the lighthouse is less than 1 pixel wide, so it doesn't show. This is equivalent to not being able to see a single human hair beyond a few metres: the angular resolution is less than the human-perceivable minimum at that distance. Does this make sense?

Keeping that in mind, pop back to the video of the tall ship going over the horizon. It only disappears from view after most of it has already been obscured by the horizon. What does this tell you? Please, also keep in mind that the prevailing swell would be physically incapable of hiding any more than a few boards of the hull, just above the waterline, given the vantage point of the observer.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

?

tappet

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2013, 03:12:13 AM »
I don't think that you are understanding how close and how big sinking ships are when you see them. It makes no difference whether you stand in the water or are 50ft above they still look big. When a container ship appears to sink you can make out a single container with clarity using only your eyes, its possible to see only the bridge and a container on the bow with clarity but no hull whatsoever with no magnification or zoom needed. So if you see a sinking ship that is what you will see.
Remember you do not need zoom to see sinking ship it is always way to big to need it.

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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2013, 03:37:21 AM »
I don't think that you are understanding how close and how big sinking ships are when you see them. It makes no difference whether you stand in the water or are 50ft above they still look big. When a container ship appears to sink you can make out a single container with clarity using only your eyes, its possible to see only the bridge and a container on the bow with clarity but no hull whatsoever with no magnification or zoom needed. So if you see a sinking ship that is what you will see.
Remember you do not need zoom to see sinking ship it is always way to big to need it.

Okay, I have never seen one that close! Please though, keep in mind, when sitting on a surfboard on the water, a 4ft swell will be higher than your eye line and will easily block your view, but when you are 20ft above the water, a 4ft swell will block no more than 4ft of what is behind it, most of the time much less.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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Spank86

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2013, 04:12:51 AM »
Water can not possibly be anything other than flat and seeking it's own level at ALL times.

put a small drop of water on a flat surface.

Spank86:

Ha!  That is an excellent argument except for one thing, we are not discussing a single drop of water.  We are discussing oceans, lakes and rivers. 

I could say in response to you:  OK, pour one cup (a very small amount obviously) of water on a ball.  Does it seek it's own level?  Yes.  Pour one cup of water on the slightest grade on earth.  RET says that "gravity" will hold that water in place and it will not run down the slight gradient to seek it's own level.

WHY doesn't "gravity" hold that one cup of water on a slight gradient when it allegedly holds oceans of water in place with it's "magical" strength of attraction?

Gravity says nothing of the sort, it will seek it's own level but that level is based on what you perceive as flat actually being curved over an incredibly large distance. Gravity pulls towards the center of the earth at all times, A basketball doesn't have enough mass to hold water to it and the experiment is even more flawed when conducted within an even greater gravity field (on the earth).


I think with regard to gradients what the others are saying is that the rate of fall on a curve depends greatly on the distance you're measuring. So measuring over 1 mile will give a lesser rate of drop than over 2 miles, than over 3... and so on and so forth. This is because the curve is curving away all the time.

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sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2013, 12:05:02 PM »
Scintific Mind: You said:

"Please, also keep in mind that the prevailing swell would be physically incapable of hiding any more than a few boards of the hull, just above the waterline, given the vantage point of the observer."

Forget your swells arguments and other complications of a simple argument.  They are IRRELEVANT.  This is a simple truth we seek.

HERE IS THE SOLUTION TO THE SHIPS SAILING OVER THE HORIZON AND DROPPING:

Let us take a LOCOMOTIVE train, one big unit.  Let's run it over Flat Earth, say the "Bonneville Salt Flats" or the state of Kansas in the USA.   

Keep in mind that railroad tracks are made perfectly straight, and when they "lay" tracks over any long FLAT distance, anywhere on Earth, the engineers NEVER EVER COMPENSATE FOR CURVATURE OF THE EARTH.

THAT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO CURVATURE OF THE EARTH.

The same reason Engineers NEVER EVER compensate for curvature of the Earth when making long tunnels and canals.

Watch the train disappear or "drop over the horizon" (as you want to imagine), on perfectly engineered railroad tracks and please, tell me sir...  how do you account for this?  Is there magically appearing CURVATURE In the steel tracks?

Scintific Method:  You should call all of the Railroad Engineers, Canal Engineers and Tunnel Engineers and tell them they are making a HUGE MISTAKE! 

Tell them they have somehow forgotten to take into consideration the CURVATURE of the Earth when they Engineered and built their incredibly FLAT engineering marvels!  They should never design anything FLAT on a Round Earth!
Tell them to go back and have another look at their mathematics and calculations and find the error of their ways!

THERE IS NO WAY THE EARTH IS A GLOBE.

Please stop trying to justify that NONSENSE with outdated arguments about "swells" and ships falling over the horizon, and water NOT seeking it's own level, and all the other nonsense you are trying to peddle.




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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2013, 12:31:33 PM »
How can you say that rails are perfectly straight? That's a ridiculous claim! There is more undulation in 100m of track than there is curvature, because the rate of curvature is less than 0.0009° over that distance! Again, your ignorance is showing through.

EDIT: I may have been a little overzealous in my initial posting; there is, in fact, a 3km long section of absolutely, perfectly straight track near where I live. If you were to measure it with a laser (done), there would be almost no deviation from a straight line at all. The interesting thing is, if you place a spirit level at either end (done), it will indicate a gentle slope toward the middle! I doubt you would understand the reason for that, but please, make an effort to.

How long is the longest tunnel on earth? (154.3km) Is it perfectly straight? (No) Another useless argument that proves nothing!

What is the datum that canal engineers use? (sea level, which follows the curve of the earth) How long is any single surveyed segment of the canal? (this is just a guess, but my passing familiarity with surveying equipment suggests the limit is 500m, over which distance the error created by the earth's curve is only 2cm, or 0.004°) Another useless argument that proves nothing!

Improve your knowledge of round earth physics before attacking it, because you are looking awfully foolish right now.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 12:49:32 PM by Scintific Method »
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

?

sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2013, 02:31:56 PM »
How can you say that rails are perfectly straight? That's a ridiculous claim! There is more undulation in 100m of track than there is curvature, because the rate of curvature is less than 0.0009° over that distance! Again, your ignorance is showing through.

EDIT: I may have been a little overzealous in my initial posting; there is, in fact, a 3km long section of absolutely, perfectly straight track near where I live. If you were to measure it with a laser (done), there would be almost no deviation from a straight line at all. The interesting thing is, if you place a spirit level at either end (done), it will indicate a gentle slope toward the middle! I doubt you would understand the reason for that, but please, make an effort to.

How long is the longest tunnel on earth? (154.3km) Is it perfectly straight? (No) Another useless argument that proves nothing!

What is the datum that canal engineers use? (sea level, which follows the curve of the earth) How long is any single surveyed segment of the canal? (this is just a guess, but my passing familiarity with surveying equipment suggests the limit is 500m, over which distance the error created by the earth's curve is only 2cm, or 0.004°) Another useless argument that proves nothing!

Improve your knowledge of round earth physics before attacking it, because you are looking awfully foolish right now.

Perfect!  You say 154 Km tunnel is not perfectly straight?  (Once AGAIN you confuse the question with fuzzy BS that means absolutely nothing.  You are becoming adept at obfuscation.)  "Is the tunnel straight?" - is NOT the question!  WHERE IS THE CURVATURE/FALL CALCULATIONS that would be required by the Engineers to keep the tunnel level over 154 Km? 

You insist on calling me ignorant (name calling:  obvious lack of subject knowledge) while you PERSIST with trying to deviate from simple, straightforward uncomplicated questions with drawings and cartoons and bullsh*t "data" that has absolutely no value to the consideration at hand.

You must be paid to try to derail the momentum of Flat Earth truth.  Why else would someone argue so bitterly using illogical nonsense?




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Spank86

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2013, 03:05:17 PM »
Perfect!  You say 154 Km tunnel is not perfectly straight?  (Once AGAIN you confuse the question with fuzzy BS that means absolutely nothing.  You are becoming adept at obfuscation.)  "Is the tunnel straight?" - is NOT the question!  WHERE IS THE CURVATURE/FALL CALCULATIONS that would be required by the Engineers to keep the tunnel level over 154 Km? 

For a start the tunnel isn't level and doesn't need to be level.

For second If the earth curves due to gravity, and water curves for the same reason then everything made straight within that gravity will curve too (assuming it's made with a spirit level). Plus any height measurements would be taken from sea level... A sea level that would be curved on a round earth so boring a tunnel from both ends would still meet despite the curvature even if one end was longer than the other.

The simple facts are that this can't prove a round or a curved earth by itself although a comparison between a laser level and a spirit level over a long distance could (or could at least prove something odd was going on) if you could get the tolerances close enough.

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Spank86

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2013, 03:06:12 PM »
Perfect!  You say 154 Km tunnel is not perfectly straight?  (Once AGAIN you confuse the question with fuzzy BS that means absolutely nothing.  You are becoming adept at obfuscation.)  "Is the tunnel straight?" - is NOT the question!  WHERE IS THE CURVATURE/FALL CALCULATIONS that would be required by the Engineers to keep the tunnel level over 154 Km? 

For a start the tunnel isn't level and doesn't need to be level so there would be no need for such calculations whatever the shape of the earth.

For second If the earth curves due to gravity, and water curves for the same reason then everything made straight within that gravity will curve too (assuming it's made with a spirit level). Plus any height measurements would be taken from sea level... A sea level that would be curved on a round earth so boring a tunnel from both ends would still meet despite the curvature even if one end was longer than the other.

The simple facts are that this can't prove a round or a curved earth by itself although a comparison between a laser level and a spirit level over a long distance could (or could at least prove something odd was going on) if you could get the tolerances close enough.

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sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2013, 03:46:06 PM »
Perfect!  You say 154 Km tunnel is not perfectly straight?  (Once AGAIN you confuse the question with fuzzy BS that means absolutely nothing.  You are becoming adept at obfuscation.)  "Is the tunnel straight?" - is NOT the question!  WHERE IS THE CURVATURE/FALL CALCULATIONS that would be required by the Engineers to keep the tunnel level over 154 Km? 

For a start the tunnel isn't level and doesn't need to be level.

For second If the earth curves due to gravity, and water curves for the same reason then everything made straight within that gravity will curve too (assuming it's made with a spirit level). Plus any height measurements would be taken from sea level... A sea level that would be curved on a round earth so boring a tunnel from both ends would still meet despite the curvature even if one end was longer than the other.

The simple facts are that this can't prove a round or a curved earth by itself although a comparison between a laser level and a spirit level over a long distance could (or could at least prove something odd was going on) if you could get the tolerances close enough.

Engineers don't calculate long spans of ANY type to include curvature of the Earth.   That's because there is none.

If there WERE curvature of the Earth (think of the ship sailing away), Engineers would have to design a hell of a Drop into any Railroad track that was the length as the same distance as the distance away that ship is when it "sails over the horizon".

FOR EXAMPLE:  Let's say that ship disappears at 7 miles out (whatever the distance is, doesn't matter for this analogy), and Engineers build a Railroad track 7 miles long.

Let's say for example that the ship is 70' tall (top of mast to bottom of hull).

That means that the Railroad track would be 70' lower when it is 7 miles away, just like the ship which sailed "over the horizon on the curvature of the Earth").

HOW would the Railroad Engineers design 70' of fall into this stretch of track when they are using (virtually straight) steel Railroad tracks?

Do you say the tracks aren't perfectly straight from the steel mill?  OK, how much are they off?  It must be an incredibly small amount.

The Earth is NOT a globe.  It's just simple logic.

 


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Spank86

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2013, 03:52:48 PM »
Do you say the tracks aren't perfectly straight from the steel mill?  OK, how much are they off?  It must be an incredibly small amount.

They are off by exactly the curvature off the earth of course. That's the very point of Round earth theory.

Gravity pulls to the center of the round earth so when anything made with a spirit level it minutely follows the curvature.

Plus individual rails wouldn't need to be curved anyway, think of the joins between the rail, what are the tolerances there? easily enough to allow a curvature.

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Spank86

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2013, 03:56:01 PM »
FOR EXAMPLE:  Let's say that ship disappears at 7 miles out (whatever the distance is, doesn't matter for this analogy), and Engineers build a Railroad track 7 miles long.
It kinda does matter if your entire argument is to show that the curvature isn't small enough to be difficult to notice.

I still don't understand why you think railroad engineers ever bother about making flat tracks anyway, they try to grade hills and bore relatively straight but it's just not important to them if stuff goes up and down a bit and if you bore from two ends at once well you're both off by the same amount.

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sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2013, 04:05:15 PM »
Do you say the tracks aren't perfectly straight from the steel mill?  OK, how much are they off?  It must be an incredibly small amount.

They are off by exactly the curvature off the earth of course. That's the very point of Round earth theory.

Gravity pulls to the center of the round earth so when anything made with a spirit level it minutely follows the curvature.

Plus individual rails wouldn't need to be curved anyway, think of the joins between the rail, what are the tolerances there? easily enough to allow a curvature.

Spank:

So you are saying that "gravity" pulls the steel railroad tracks onto the curvature of the Earth and if that doesn't work then the tolerances in the joints will allow for 70' or fall?

If the Earth was shaped like a Basketball and you laid 100 miles of virtually straight steel Railroad Track out, the track would stick up in the AIR after a few miles!

I do NOT think "gravity" is going to pull the steel Railroad track down to conform with the "curvature" of the "Basketball", do you?

I do NOT think the critical tolerances in the joints of Railroad tracks are enough to keep the Railroad track from sticking up in the air after a few miles traveling along the curvature of the "Basketball".

So you think virtually perfectly straight Railroad tracks will be pulled down to meet the curvature of the "Basketball".

Wow, amazing.


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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2013, 05:46:57 PM »
sixstringthing, I call you ignorant because everything you say displays ignorance of the subject being discussed. I have tried my best to rectify this ignorance, by providing diagrams, examples, and explanations, in as clear a format as I can manage, but have been met by yet more ignorance. You clearly do not understand the subject at hand, and seem also to have no desire to. For this reason, I pity you. That said, I have not given up yet! Please, read on, and try to pay attention this time!

So you are saying that "gravity" pulls the steel railroad tracks onto the curvature of the Earth and if that doesn't work then the tolerances in the joints will allow for 70' or fall?

That's exactly what happens. The required amount of flex for a rail to match the curve of the earth is minimal. Do the engineers use bent sections of track to go over a hill? No, because the track flexes enough to follow the curve of the hill (which, you must admit, is far greater than that of the earth). Do they use bent sections around corners? No, because the track has enough flexibility in it to simply be bent as it is laid.

If the Earth was shaped like a Basketball and you laid 100 miles of virtually straight steel Railroad Track out, the track would stick up in the AIR after a few miles!

You must have missed my remark about the 3km section of perfectly straight track near my home. To refresh you, a spirit level placed on the track at either end indicates a gentle slop toward the middle, yet the track is exactly straight! Please, give some thought to the reason for that.

Engineers don't calculate long spans of ANY type to include curvature of the Earth.   That's because there is none.

Really? Never? Can you prove that there has never been a long man-made structure that included calculations of curvature?

If there WERE curvature of the Earth (think of the ship sailing away), Engineers would have to design a hell of a Drop into any Railroad track that was the length as the same distance as the distance away that ship is when it "sails over the horizon".

No. Please read the above comments on railroads. And for pity's sake, learn something about the subject, and give it some careful thought, before trying to argue it!
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2013, 08:25:39 PM »
Scintific Method:

You said:  "Really? Never? Can you prove that there has never been a long man-made structure that included calculations of curvature?"

When you get nowhere by name calling you get down to your last, most desperate hope at smearing the obvious with your fanciful imagery.  You want me to prove a negative?

You want ME to prove there has never been something?  Anything?  LOL.  Silly boy.  Don't you know it's the act of desperation to ask your opponent to prove a negative?

UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU, that turns the tables!

It is YOU who MUST prove a positive (or admit defeat... which you will!).

So... PROVE there HAS been a man-made structure that took into account the "curvature" of the Basketball (Earth).

Go ahead sir, prove it.  Find one.  JUST ONE!  Of all the miracles created by man and huge distances spanned by tunnels, bridges, Railroads, Highways and Canals across the entire world, please fine me JUST ONE that took into consideration the "curvature" of your Basketball-shaped Earth.

When you can NOT find JUST ONE example, please return immediate with an appropriate apology for your confusion over such simple matters.

If, however, you DO find JUST ONE EXAMPLE of an Engineering Calculation (of any type structure, anywhere on Earth) that takes into consideration the "curvature" of your Basketball-shaped Earth, I will glad apologize for the "ignorance" you have repeatedly claimed I have.

I eagerly await your response:

PROVE IT!!!

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hewholikespie

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2013, 08:49:42 PM »
There have been countless, Sixstring.

None of them are on the scale you think of, because there's no structure with a singular component long enough and also inflexible enough to require being machined to the curvature of the earth.

But there are quite a number of structures that require the curvature to function.

They whiz over us all the time. Wouldn't work without the curvature, you see.

But for a terrestrial example, the Danyang–Kunshan Grand Bridge in China, a 102 mile bridge, Bang Na expressway in Thailand, at 34 miles, and the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway in southern Louisiana, which is 23.83 miles entirely over water. All have to take the curvature of the earth into account, not for individual pieces, but for how they join together to form a coherent whole.

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sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2013, 09:00:22 PM »
There have been countless, Sixstring.

None of them are on the scale you think of, because there's no structure with a singular component long enough and also inflexible enough to require being machined to the curvature of the earth.

But there are quite a number of structures that require the curvature to function.

They whiz over us all the time. Wouldn't work without the curvature, you see.

But for a terrestrial example, the Danyang–Kunshan Grand Bridge in China, a 102 mile bridge, Bang Na expressway in Thailand, at 34 miles, and the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway in southern Louisiana, which is 23.83 miles entirely over water. All have to take the curvature of the earth into account, not for individual pieces, but for how they join together to form a coherent whole.
[/quot

Countless?  Awesome!

It should be an exceptionally easy task to show me JUST ONE example of the mathematics or Engineering plans from JUST ONE of these "countless" Engineering marvels that require Calculations for negotiating the "curvature" of the Basketball-shaped Earth.

I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE YOUR EXAMPLE!

PLEASE DO HURRY BACK WITH IT.

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Scintific Method

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2013, 09:06:45 PM »
I was indirectly asking you to back up this statement:

Engineers don't calculate long spans of ANY type to include curvature of the Earth.

Since you seem to want to put the onus on me to disprove your statement instead, here you go:

The Australia Telescope Compact Array is made up of multiple radio telescopes. These require a suitable and consistent reference point for synchronised observations, thus the track they run on had to be constructed in such a way that it would be perfectly straight for it's entire 3km length. Due to the curvature of the earth, this required that each end of the 3km track go "uphill" relative to the local pull of gravity, in order to maintain an exactly straight line from one end to the other. How do I know about this? I grew up virtually right next to it, and have had the opportunity to see this remarkable piece of engineering with my own eyes.

Is that good enough, or do you need to see the plans? They might be a little hard to get hold of, I honestly wouldn't know where to start looking...
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

?

sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2013, 09:19:10 PM »
I was indirectly asking you to back up this statement:

Engineers don't calculate long spans of ANY type to include curvature of the Earth.

Since you seem to want to put the onus on me to disprove your statement instead, here you go:

The Australia Telescope Compact Array is made up of multiple radio telescopes. These require a suitable and consistent reference point for synchronised observations, thus the track they run on had to be constructed in such a way that it would be perfectly straight for it's entire 3km length. Due to the curvature of the earth, this required that each end of the 3km track go "uphill" relative to the local pull of gravity, in order to maintain an exactly straight line from one end to the other. How do I know about this? I grew up virtually right next to it, and have had the opportunity to see this remarkable piece of engineering with my own eyes.

Is that good enough, or do you need to see the plans? They might be a little hard to get hold of, I honestly wouldn't know where to start looking...

Please cite the source of your reference so that I may have a look.  Thank you.

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Rama Set

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2013, 09:19:38 PM »
I was indirectly asking you to back up this statement:

Engineers don't calculate long spans of ANY type to include curvature of the Earth.

Since you seem to want to put the onus on me to disprove your statement instead, here you go:

The Australia Telescope Compact Array is made up of multiple radio telescopes. These require a suitable and consistent reference point for synchronised observations, thus the track they run on had to be constructed in such a way that it would be perfectly straight for it's entire 3km length. Due to the curvature of the earth, this required that each end of the 3km track go "uphill" relative to the local pull of gravity, in order to maintain an exactly straight line from one end to the other. How do I know about this? I grew up virtually right next to it, and have had the opportunity to see this remarkable piece of engineering with my own eyes.

Is that good enough, or do you need to see the plans? They might be a little hard to get hold of, I honestly wouldn't know where to start looking...
Some construction plan would have to be filed with the local municipality or county maybe?
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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sixstringthing

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Re: Conflicting rate of curvature?
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2013, 09:24:44 PM »
I was indirectly asking you to back up this statement:

Engineers don't calculate long spans of ANY type to include curvature of the Earth.

Since you seem to want to put the onus on me to disprove your statement instead, here you go:

The Australia Telescope Compact Array is made up of multiple radio telescopes. These require a suitable and consistent reference point for synchronised observations, thus the track they run on had to be constructed in such a way that it would be perfectly straight for it's entire 3km length. Due to the curvature of the earth, this required that each end of the 3km track go "uphill" relative to the local pull of gravity, in order to maintain an exactly straight line from one end to the other. How do I know about this? I grew up virtually right next to it, and have had the opportunity to see this remarkable piece of engineering with my own eyes.

Is that good enough, or do you need to see the plans? They might be a little hard to get hold of, I honestly wouldn't know where to start looking...

Where did you get the following quote?  Please cite this source.

"The Australia Telescope Compact Array is made up of multiple radio telescopes. These require a suitable and consistent reference point for synchronised observations, thus the track they run on had to be constructed in such a way that it would be perfectly straight for it's entire 3km length. Due to the curvature of the earth, this required that each end of the 3km track go "uphill" relative to the local pull of gravity, in order to maintain an exactly straight line from one end to the other."