If I jump in the air why doesn't the ground move @ 1000MPH?

When you do the experiments how will you measure the pressure?

When you do the experiments how will you measure the pressure?

Barometers.

I'm going to use 2 barometers and two sets of small digital scales with the plate faces, facing the front of the car.
The scales alone should prove it but just to make it thorough, I'll get two of each.

Quote from: inquisitive on January 12, 2014, 10:50:29 AM

When you do the experiments how will you measure the pressure?

Barometers.

The barometers will measure a pressure difference during acceleration. This was established by the video. Too bad its only enough to move something as light as a helium balloon and its too bad it works in the opposite direction that you want it to.

It's all explained in the topic. Anymore of this and you go the way of Carol and spank.

I believe that's classed as a win.

When even scepti has to admit he cannot back up or even begin to explain his theory.

Quote from: TPMS on January 12, 2014, 09:54:01 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 12, 2014, 09:35:30 AM

If anyone claims it is all about air pressure then they should do some real tests to prove it.

Agreed. Also, I've read through all 78 pages of this thread, but I'm not sure if the following question has been answered yet.

Let's go back to the bus example. Scepti, if the reason that people are pushed into their seats upon acceleration of the bus is due to the air from the front moving to the back because of air pressure, why do we not feel a rush of air hit us upon acceleration? If the air was truly rushing toward the back of the bus fast enough to push us into the seats, then we'd feel a rush of air hit us.

Because the air is compressed against you. It's in a container (the bus).
It is not blown against you as is passing you by as if you were on top of the bus.

Okay, if it's pressed against you, why do we not feel any compression in the front of our bodies? Surely if the pressure is enough to push us back against the seat, we'd feel the air being compressed against our bodies.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 12, 2014, 10:15:20 AM

Quote from: TPMS on January 12, 2014, 09:54:01 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 12, 2014, 09:35:30 AM

If anyone claims it is all about air pressure then they should do some real tests to prove it.

Agreed. Also, I've read through all 78 pages of this thread, but I'm not sure if the following question has been answered yet.

Let's go back to the bus example. Scepti, if the reason that people are pushed into their seats upon acceleration of the bus is due to the air from the front moving to the back because of air pressure, why do we not feel a rush of air hit us upon acceleration? If the air was truly rushing toward the back of the bus fast enough to push us into the seats, then we'd feel a rush of air hit us.

Because the air is compressed against you. It's in a container (the bus).
It is not blown against you as is passing you by as if you were on top of the bus.

Okay, if it's pressed against you, why do we not feel any compression in the front of our bodies? Surely if the pressure is enough to push us back against the seat, we'd feel the air being compressed against our bodies.

Have you ever been on one of these?
#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">#

If you have, you will notice that the pressure on you feels mild, but it's enough to make you stick to the wall when the floor drops.
This is very similar to when you travel in a vehicle that gradually gains speed. It's a gained pressure that simply pushes against your full body.
On a bus, you do not feel it on your body to the point of really noticing but take the head rest away and you will feel it on your neck muscles.
If there's a sharp acceleration, then there will be a sharp jerk of air onto you in COMPRESSED state, not as wind, like you would feel if the wind blew on you, because that wind can pass around you and over you which you feel as it's pouring friction all around your body by deflecting the pressure directly at you, around your body. The opposite effect is if you were riding a motorbike into that air friction.
Once that outside air hits you, it can do only two things. It can knock you off your bike , except that you have hold of the handle bars....or hit you and pass around you, so you feel that force by your body and the friction of it as it's deflecting around you, stretching your face, clothes and whatever.

In A bus, it's like you are put into a compressed air cylinder  before being filled, knowing that it's at equal pressure.
It's then as though someone is adding pressure but as a build up that cannot pass around you because the back of the cylinder is closed, so it simply compresses the air and you towards the back of the cylinder.
At low speed, you barely notice it in motion of slow acceleration, except for the IMMEDIATE start off, which your body is not ready for, which you feel as a kick back...and as the acceleration builds up, your body is geared for it and you are reacting to it naturally, because that's how your body is geared to react to anything...it just isn't geared to react to SUDDEN movement.

It's like walking up a hill. You know what's coming as you walk, so your body changes angle to balance the forces.
Our bodies are equipped for the pressure we live under, or are born under and growing under, so we are equalized to that pressure and think it's nothing, It's anything BUT nothing. it's extremely strong which can be seen if you unbalance that force by creating a higher or lower pressure by whichever means you want to.
You can make a 10 foot flask of which you know that some of the air is evacuated from it. If you were to whack a hole into that flask, you would be pushed into it, because the atmosphere would immediately want to equalize the low pressure inside that flask and to get in, it would have to get past you, forcing you into it as well.
It's an extreme example but it would be a real scenario.
Then you have a compressed air cylinder that is under higher pressure than the air outside...so the air inside if the cylinder was whacked with a hole, would be explosive decompression of that and I think you've seen what that can do.

Can you see what I'm getting at?

Have you ever been on one of these?
#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">#

If you have, you will notice that the pressure on you feels mild, but it's enough to make you stick to the wall when the floor drops.
This is very similar to when you travel in a vehicle that gradually gains speed. It's a gained pressure that simply pushes against your full body.
On a bus, you do not feel it on your body to the point of really noticing but take the head rest away and you will feel it on your neck muscles.
If there's a sharp acceleration, then there will be a sharp jerk of air onto you in COMPRESSED state, not as wind, like you would feel if the wind blew on you, because that wind can pass around you and over you which you feel as it's pouring friction all around your body by deflecting the pressure directly at you, around your body. The opposite effect is if you were riding a motorbike into that air friction.
Once that outside air hits you, it can do only two things. It can knock you off your bike , except that you have hold of the handle bars....or hit you and pass around you, so you feel that force by your body and the friction of it as it's deflecting around you, stretching your face, clothes and whatever.

In A bus, it's like you are put into a compressed air cylinder  before being filled, knowing that it's at equal pressure.
It's then as though someone is adding pressure but as a build up that cannot pass around you because the back of the cylinder is closed, so it simply compresses the air and you towards the back of the cylinder.
At low speed, you barely notice it in motion of slow acceleration, except for the IMMEDIATE start off, which your body is not ready for, which you feel as a kick back...and as the acceleration builds up, your body is geared for it and you are reacting to it naturally, because that's how your body is geared to react to anything...it just isn't geared to react to SUDDEN movement.

It's like walking up a hill. You know what's coming as you walk, so your body changes angle to balance the forces.
Our bodies are equipped for the pressure we live under, or are born under and growing under, so we are equalized to that pressure and think it's nothing, It's anything BUT nothing. it's extremely strong which can be seen if you unbalance that force by creating a higher or lower pressure by whichever means you want to.
You can make a 10 foot flask of which you know that some of the air is evacuated from it. If you were to whack a hole into that flask, you would be pushed into it, because the atmosphere would immediately want to equalize the low pressure inside that flask and to get in, it would have to get past you, forcing you into it as well.
It's an extreme example but it would be a real scenario.
Then you have a compressed air cylinder that is under higher pressure than the air outside...so the air inside if the cylinder was whacked with a hole, would be explosive decompression of that and I think you've seen what that can do.

Can you see what I'm getting at?

Yes, I've been on one of those before. I can see where you're coming from somewhat with certain parts of what you've said, but the reason you're pushed up against the outside of the ring on the ride is due to the lack of centripetal force, not air pressure.

EDIT: correction

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 12, 2014, 12:04:54 PM

Have you ever been on one of these?
#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">#

If you have, you will notice that the pressure on you feels mild, but it's enough to make you stick to the wall when the floor drops.
This is very similar to when you travel in a vehicle that gradually gains speed. It's a gained pressure that simply pushes against your full body.
On a bus, you do not feel it on your body to the point of really noticing but take the head rest away and you will feel it on your neck muscles.
If there's a sharp acceleration, then there will be a sharp jerk of air onto you in COMPRESSED state, not as wind, like you would feel if the wind blew on you, because that wind can pass around you and over you which you feel as it's pouring friction all around your body by deflecting the pressure directly at you, around your body. The opposite effect is if you were riding a motorbike into that air friction.
Once that outside air hits you, it can do only two things. It can knock you off your bike , except that you have hold of the handle bars....or hit you and pass around you, so you feel that force by your body and the friction of it as it's deflecting around you, stretching your face, clothes and whatever.

In A bus, it's like you are put into a compressed air cylinder  before being filled, knowing that it's at equal pressure.
It's then as though someone is adding pressure but as a build up that cannot pass around you because the back of the cylinder is closed, so it simply compresses the air and you towards the back of the cylinder.
At low speed, you barely notice it in motion of slow acceleration, except for the IMMEDIATE start off, which your body is not ready for, which you feel as a kick back...and as the acceleration builds up, your body is geared for it and you are reacting to it naturally, because that's how your body is geared to react to anything...it just isn't geared to react to SUDDEN movement.

It's like walking up a hill. You know what's coming as you walk, so your body changes angle to balance the forces.
Our bodies are equipped for the pressure we live under, or are born under and growing under, so we are equalized to that pressure and think it's nothing, It's anything BUT nothing. it's extremely strong which can be seen if you unbalance that force by creating a higher or lower pressure by whichever means you want to.
You can make a 10 foot flask of which you know that some of the air is evacuated from it. If you were to whack a hole into that flask, you would be pushed into it, because the atmosphere would immediately want to equalize the low pressure inside that flask and to get in, it would have to get past you, forcing you into it as well.
It's an extreme example but it would be a real scenario.
Then you have a compressed air cylinder that is under higher pressure than the air outside...so the air inside if the cylinder was whacked with a hole, would be explosive decompression of that and I think you've seen what that can do.

Can you see what I'm getting at?

Yes, I've been on one of those before. I can see where you're coming from somewhat with certain parts of what you've said, but the reason you're pushed up against the outside of the ring on the ride is due to centrifugal force, not air pressure.

EDIT: minor adjustment

I was on one a long time ago as well. I didn't see or feel a 100+mph wind that kept me on the wall. It is quite a terrible argument for him to post that video and claim it's air pressure holding them against the wall.

And on a bus with the windows closed and the door at the back?

Yes, I've been on one of those before. I can see where you're coming from somewhat with certain parts of what you've said, but the reason you're pushed against the outside of the ring is due to centrifugal force, not air pressure.

Yes, but that's the name we are brought up with but people assume it's gravity that's the cause of it and inertia without knowing how it works.
It's like, 2 oh this works because it wants to throw you off but the wall stops you being thrown off, yet they don't tell you what the force is that makes that happen and it's the same as the bus scenario inside , only this is doing it in a rotating motion.
I'll try and do both analogies side by side.
In the bus as rest, you are sat on your seat and everything is equal pressure.
In the rota, the very same thing happens as it's stationary. We can agree on this.

The bus accelerates and you feel yourself pushed back.
The rota starts off and you feel your body being pushed back to the wall.
In both cases, your body is not ready, so your natural balance is affected.

If the bus accelerates constantly, building up a great speed, you will feel more pinned back into your seat, because the bus is running into the air in front and compressing making it higher pressure it and that higher pressure has to be deflected behind to the lower pressure void that is always left because of the push of the front of the bus.
The same thing is happening inside the bus, except that the front of the bus goes faster than the air inside whilst the back sort of crashes into the air from the back... and it leaves a low pressure inside the front that is immediately filled by the high pressure created by the outside force of the front of the bus. It all works in unison but on acceleration, it will always build pressure...ALWAYS, until that acceleration becomes a constant speed, in which case,the pressure will equalize but will be much higher than it was at the start of the journey.
In the rota, it starts to rotate and as it does so, the rim of it creates friction inside and out along with the people in it...and that force of the inner and outer rim, plus people against the air, compresses it out of the way and makes it go over the bodies of the people which creates a high pressure which the now lower pressure inside the rota away from them tries to fill so pushes against the higher pressure, pinning the people more and more to the wall.
The faster it goes, the more the lower pressure in the rota tries to keep equalizing but it can't fully so it because every time it does, the rota is speeding up a little at a time till eventually the floor can drop and the people can stick to the wall.
It doesn't matter what's used on earth, it all boils down to the exact same scenario, it's just done in different ways, as I've explained.
The result is, gravity and inertia are misinformation and misdirection and atmospheric pressure is the very reason for anything that happens.....no other forces needed.

And on a bus with the windows closed and the door at the back?

Then you are in a ready to fill compressed air cylinder.

And on a bus with the windows closed and the door at the back?

No 100mph+ wind there either.

Quote from: TPMS on January 12, 2014, 12:19:03 PM

Yes, I've been on one of those before. I can see where you're coming from somewhat with certain parts of what you've said, but the reason you're pushed against the outside of the ring is due to centrifugal force, not air pressure.

Yes, but that's the name we are brought up with but people assume it's gravity that's the cause of it and inertia without knowing how it works.
It's like, 2 oh this works because it wants to throw you off but the wall stops you being thrown off, yet they don't tell you what the force is that makes that happen and it's the same as the bus scenario inside , only this is doing it in a rotating motion.
I'll try and do both analogies side by side.
In the bus as rest, you are sat on your seat and everything is equal pressure.
In the rota, the very same thing happens as it's stationary. We can agree on this.

The bus accelerates and you feel yourself pushed back.
The rota starts off and you feel your body being pushed back to the wall.
In both cases, your body is not ready, so your natural balance is affected.

If the bus accelerates constantly, building up a great speed, you will feel more pinned back into your seat, because the bus is running into the air in front and compressing making it higher pressure it and that higher pressure has to be deflected behind to the lower pressure void that is always left because of the push of the front of the bus.
The same thing is happening inside the bus, except that the front of the bus goes faster than the air inside whilst the back sort of crashes into the air from the back... and it leaves a low pressure inside the front that is immediately filled by the high pressure created by the outside force of the front of the bus. It all works in unison but on acceleration, it will always build pressure...ALWAYS, until that acceleration becomes a constant speed, in which case,the pressure will equalize but will be much higher than it was at the start of the journey.
In the rota, it starts to rotate and as it does so, the rim of it creates friction inside and out along with the people in it...and that force of the inner and outer rim, plus people against the air, compresses it out of the way and makes it go over the bodies of the people which creates a high pressure which the now lower pressure inside the rota away from them tries to fill so pushes against the higher pressure, pinning the people more and more to the wall.
The faster it goes, the more the lower pressure in the rota tries to keep equalizing but it can't fully so it because every time it does, the rota is speeding up a little at a time till eventually the floor can drop and the people can stick to the wall.
It doesn't matter what's used on earth, it all boils down to the exact same scenario, it's just done in different ways, as I've explained.
The result is, gravity and inertia are misinformation and misdirection and atmospheric pressure is the very reason for anything that happens.....no other forces needed.

You'll note that I made a minor correction to my previous post (I changed "centrifugal force" to "a lack of centripetal force"). The force that causes you to move toward the outside of the circle is explained: you're pushed to the outside of the wall because of no centrifugal force keeping you closer to the center of the circle. Here's a link that explains this: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/cf.html

You've provided no evidence that proves that gravity and inertia don't exist. You also haven't provided any evidence or experiments that prove that air pressure is the cause of everything that gravity and inertia already explain.

Quote from: inquisitive on January 12, 2014, 12:35:03 PM

And on a bus with the windows closed and the door at the back?

Then you are in a ready to fill compressed air cylinder.

You mean an empty cylinder with lots if holes.

the front of the bus goes faster than the air inside whilst the back sort of crashes into the air from the back

Why? Without inertia, the air would just move with the bus, no matter if the bus was speeding up, slowing down, or turning. So, in your world where inertia does not exist, why does the air crash into the back of the bus? In the 79 pages of this thread so far, this has not been explained to my satisfaction.

'The back sort of ...'  Very clear...  In a sealed or unsealed container the effect is the same.

Take it how you want to. It's no problem to me. Go with what's been bred into you. All it tells me is, none of you even want to question what's been told to you and some of you probably do know what's what but are into full on denial mode.
That's fine, I have no issue with that and I know that anything I say will just whizz straight past you.
As long as some people looking in are grasping it, then, like I said earlier, that'll do for me.

Take it how you want to. It's no problem to me. Go with what's been bred into you. All it tells me is, none of you even want to question what's been told to you and some of you probably do know what's what but are into full on denial mode.
That's fine, I have no issue with that and I know that anything I say will just whizz straight past you.
As long as some people looking in are grasping it, then, like I said earlier, that'll do for me.

We're just asking you to provide evidence for your claims.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 12, 2014, 03:20:47 PM

Take it how you want to. It's no problem to me. Go with what's been bred into you. All it tells me is, none of you even want to question what's been told to you and some of you probably do know what's what but are into full on denial mode.
That's fine, I have no issue with that and I know that anything I say will just whizz straight past you.
As long as some people looking in are grasping it, then, like I said earlier, that'll do for me.

We're just asking you to provide evidence for your claims.

Will some photos of speeding buses do? What evidence can I give you that would satisfy you 100%

Start with some pressure readings.

Start with some pressure readings.

Can you elaborate?
Tell me what would be total proof to you that gravity and inertia are not the reasons you believe them to be and would tell you they are bogus science?

Quote from: inquisitive on January 12, 2014, 03:57:53 PM

Start with some pressure readings.

Can you elaborate?
Tell me what would be total proof to you that gravity and inertia are not the reasons you believe them to be and would tell you they are bogus science?

Air pressure at the back and front of a bus having massive shifts at it pulls away might be a start.

Oh and then we're back to the why part of course. Why things happen is as much important as knowing what happens at each stage.

Tell me what would be total proof to you that gravity and inertia are not the reasons you believe them to be and would tell you they are bogus science?

It's not up to us round earthers to mount any defence to support the well-established theories of gravity and inertia that have been universally accepted by scientists all over the world.  At this point in time, there is not one single piece of evidence that you, or any of the other flat earthers could produce to alter my acceptance of both gravity and inertia.

You've yet to even suggest a viable alternative to the theory of gravity—other than just repeatedly claiming it doesn't exist.  This sort of non-reasoning just doesn't work in the real world of the 21st century.  You must provide us with an alternative theory as to why we all don't just fly off into space because of the centrifugal force acting on our bodies.

Quote from: inquisitive on January 12, 2014, 03:57:53 PM

Start with some pressure readings.

Can you elaborate?
Tell me what would be total proof to you that gravity and inertia are not the reasons you believe them to be and would tell you they are bogus science?

It's for you to show your theory is correct, by explanation and results of tests.

The effect on the bus passenger is the same if the container is sealed or unsealed.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 12, 2014, 04:02:57 PM

Tell me what would be total proof to you that gravity and inertia are not the reasons you believe them to be and would tell you they are bogus science?

It's not up to us round earthers to mount any defence to support the well-established theories of gravity and inertia that have been universally accepted by scientists all over the world.  At this point in time, there is not one single piece of evidence that you, or any of the other flat earthers could produce to alter my acceptance of both gravity and inertia.

You've yet to even suggest a viable alternative to the theory of gravity—other than just repeatedly claiming it doesn't exist.  This sort of non-reasoning just doesn't work in the real world of the 21st century.  You must provide us with an alternative theory as to why we all don't just fly off into space because of the centrifugal force acting on our bodies.

I've explained perfectly well and perfectly logical by a much better theory as to why all of that happens.
All you have is that gravity and inertia keep a globe ticking along nicely and yet have no clue as to what the actual force or reasoning is for both. It's rigged up nonsense and nothing more than that.
You cannot even describe to me what it is, except to say, "oh, it keeps planets in sync and rotating and us on earth whilst also pulling at the oceans."
It's so ludicrous, it really should be seen for what it is...but mass opinion is a strong intimidation of weak minds and most of the earth is filled with people with weak minds. Sad but true.

It's not down to me to prove anything to you. I give you the reasoning, which is as basic and as clear as can be. From that point, it's entirely up to you what you do with that info. Either flat out discard it and stick to the nonsense or open your mind to the alternative possibilities.
I have the advantage of not being brainwashed into my thoughts. I deduce what I think from piecing together the stuff that works with what we actually see in this earth.

You people trying to explain gravity is like someone saying that their head is pounding because they are being hit by invisible rocks...and yet people appear to simply say...oh yeah, invisible rocks, we studied them in science and I get hit by them too.
The logic and common sense thought should be..."hang on a minute.....what the hell are invisible rocks?...I've probably got a pulsating headache due to pressure drop/build up"...but no...this does not happen, because mass opinion wins the day.

Like I said before. Talk to an imaginary friend and you will be called a stark raving lunatic.
Have a mass of people kneel and pray to an imaginary person and they are known as nice, intelligent, well respected church goers.
Funny how life works, isn't it.

Common sense and logic is only welcome in this world if it benefits the elite. If it goes against the grain, then no matter how brilliant it could be, it will be ridiculed.
People are just grazing sheep, kept in line by the shepherd and dog and protected as long as they follow the direction of Shepherd and dog.
The strays, also known as black sheep or free thinkers are torn to bits by the wolf.

That's your earth workings as far as we go.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 12, 2014, 04:02:57 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 12, 2014, 03:57:53 PM

Start with some pressure readings.

Can you elaborate?
Tell me what would be total proof to you that gravity and inertia are not the reasons you believe them to be and would tell you they are bogus science?

It's for you to show your theory is correct, by explanation and results of tests.

The effect on the bus passenger is the same if the container is sealed or unsealed.

What do you mean, the effect is the same. Can you elaborate a little on this?

I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)

I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)

What are matchbox cars going to prove?

Quote from: Antonio on January 13, 2014, 04:20:42 AM

I will do some experiments with matchbox cars soon. But first, I need you to depict what your theory predicts.
Can you give an answer to my previous question? (remember, the kid on a skate into a starting bus)

What are matchbox cars going to prove?

I have no bus, nor a kid on a skateboard at my disposal to do these experiments, so I'll go with a reduced scale ones.
Care to answer please ?