Impossible geometric requirements for a flat earth

Yes, I find that truly fascinating as well. One relevant and glaring example is homosexual rights, which the bible is comparatively blasé about (establishing literally only the act of sodomy as sin). Yet in the institutionalised christian religions it is one of those most strongly condemned acts. There are sufficient passages in the new testament to establish this view as hypocritical. As you said though, arguing that point is senseless, because it wasn't a logical course of reasoning that established these standards in the first place. The difference between those institutions and this place is that the former was constructed to support a political agenda, whereas this place was constructed for a crazy agenda. I'm not saying one is better than the other.

Something specifically related to this is that part of my goal when creating this thread was to present evidence that is very hard to "wriggle out of" or "explain away."  The problem with many other threads here is that it isn't too hard to come up with explanations that make a little bit of sense.  It doesn't matter if they don't hold up to rigorous analysis, they just have to make a little bit of sense and the entire thread accomplishes nothing.  For example, in GPS threads you might see people talking about how you could do the same thing with ground-based towers, i.e. you don't need satellites.  Upon rigorous examination, this explanation does not work, but it makes just enough sense for those peddling it to feel self-assured in their excusal of themselves from further serious comment.  I'm not yet convinced that such an easy explanation exists for the issue I've raised in this thread, however.  There very well could be, but I have yet to see it.

Well I'll stop taking this post off topic in case someone does come up with an answer, but my experience with posts that are difficult to answer is that people like Tom Bishop will just post a few half-hearted criticisms that don't withstand scrutiny or are factually incorrect, and will never return after that. Then you're just left with people like Sceptimatic and that new RUSpinning guy, neither of which are likely to produce anything substantial, and a few critics who are unlikely to post anything particularly insightful (Thork for example).

You could try formulating your question more succinctly, focusing on only a single point. This might illicit a sensible response / attempt.

Hi me again! One more try, ok?

Assume the ice ring model is the right one. Now consider, proximity to the edge of earth - which would also imply proximity to the aetherial stream of the UA - would cause a kind of time dilation (roughly comparable to the one in SR) that effects every movement with a vector perpendicular to the gradient of the aetherial field. Wouldn't that shorten the observed longitudinal distances for southern latitudes? Thus explaining the - as it seems - distorted forms of the continents on flat earth maps? It would also explain why so many otherwise clever people come to the false conclusion that earth is round, because it's that kind of phenomenon you really wouldn't expect easily.

Hi me again! One more try, ok?

Assume the ice ring model is the right one. Now consider, proximity to the edge of earth - which would also imply proximity to the aetherial stream of the UA - would cause a kind of time delation (roughly comparable to the one in SR) that effects every movement with a vector perpendicular to the gradient of the aetherial field. Wouldn't that shorten the observed longitudinal distances for southern latitudes? Thus explaining the - as it seems - distorted forms of the continents on flat earth maps? It would also explain why so many otherwise clever people come to the false conclusion that earth is round, because it's that kind of phenomenon you really wouldn't expect easily.

I don't really see how. From the reference frame of the earth the aether's velocity would likely not be relativistic. Even so, what makes you think that those effects would cause the perception of a round earth? Could you draw a diagram? I also don't follow what you mean by the gradient of the aetherial field.

Quote from: Homesick Martian on April 07, 2013, 05:48:55 PM

Hi me again! One more try, ok?

Assume the ice ring model is the right one. Now consider, proximity to the edge of earth - which would also imply proximity to the aetherial stream of the UA - would cause a kind of time delation (roughly comparable to the one in SR) that effects every movement with a vector perpendicular to the gradient of the aetherial field. Wouldn't that shorten the observed longitudinal distances for southern latitudes? Thus explaining the - as it seems - distorted forms of the continents on flat earth maps? It would also explain why so many otherwise clever people come to the false conclusion that earth is round, because it's that kind of phenomenon you really wouldn't expect easily.

I don't really see how. From the reference frame of the earth the aether's velocity would likely not be relativistic. Even so, what makes you think that those effects would cause the perception of a round earth? Could you draw a diagram? I also don't follow what you mean by the gradient of the aetherial field.

The delation is meant as a function of distance to the aether stream, its no relativistic effect, so I shouldn't have mentioned SR at all. You can see it this way: the aether stream causes an aetherial field that spreads out over the earth plane, causing a delation, that increases in direction of the potential of the field. I call it a field, because it mathematically resembles one. But it must have some peculiarities  different from every physical field we know.

What do you mean by delation? Assuming the aether is some earthly material then I still don't really see by what mechanism the perception of roundness would come about. Are you talking about refraction?

I mean dilation, sorry. What I say is: my "aetherial field" (maybe you find a better term?) causes time to slow down. That makes every distance seem shorter for every object P, that is moved along this distance. But, and this is one of the peculiarities of that field, it works only perpendicular to the gradient (the direction of the greatest rate of increase of the field's potential). As a result it effects only the vector of a movement, that is perpendicular to the line PN, where N is the north pole. Movements along this line remain unaffected. To remind you, that has nothing to do with the speed of light, only with the potential of the AF. 
Supposed my description is intelligible -wouldn't that cause the illusion of roundness?

I mean dilation, sorry. What I say is: my "aetherial field" (maybe you find a better term?) causes time to slow down. That makes every distance seem shorter for every object P, that is moved along this distance. But, and this is one of the peculiarities of that field, it works only perpendicular to the gradient (the direction of the greatest rate of increase of the field's potential). As a result it effects only the vector of a movement, that is perpendicular to the line PN, where N is the north pole. Movements along this line remain unaffected. To remind you, that has nothing to do with the speed of light, only with the potential of the AF. 
Supposed my description is intelligible -wouldn't that cause the illusion of roundness?

I don't know of any real or theoretical material that would cause time from within a reference frame to change without relativistic velocities.

If you're asking whether it would be possible for a hypothetical "time dilation field" to modify the perception of space and time near the edges; I suppose you could fudge up some numbers and make it work. But you would have to turn physics on its head to do so, and there would be no basis for it in observable phenomena.

It wouldn't be any worse than bendy light though, so I don't see why not!

I mean dilation, sorry. What I say is: my "aetherial field" (maybe you find a better term?) causes time to slow down. That makes every distance seem shorter for every object P, that is moved along this distance.

If I'm reading what you wrote correctly, if time slows down, it should effect both their speed and their perception of it.  To them, nothing has changed, and it's still taking them a lot longer than it should.

Quote from: Homesick Martian on April 07, 2013, 07:35:57 PM

I mean dilation, sorry. What I say is: my "aetherial field" (maybe you find a better term?) causes time to slow down. That makes every distance seem shorter for every object P, that is moved along this distance.

If I'm reading what you wrote correctly, if time slows down, it should effect both their speed and their perception of it.  To them, nothing has changed, and it's still taking them a lot longer than it should.

Good point. Care to clarify: Why should it effect our perception?

Good point. Care to clarify: Why should it effect our perception?

Because our perception is based on the firing of neurons, which slows down if time slows down.  In other words, if I pressed a button on a big machine that slowed down time for everyone on the earth, no one would notice any immediate effects.  Nothing would appear to be slower or faster.

Because our perception is based on the firing of neurons, which slows down if time slows down.  In other words, if I pressed a button on a big machine that slowed down time for everyone on the earth, no one would notice any immediate effects.  Nothing would appear to be slower or faster.

But the big machine we are talking about slows down time only for movements perpendicular to the line PN, for this is the line of the field gradient, or in other words, for movements concentric with the circles of latitude. Neurons fire in every direction, so I don't really see a the problem.

Quote from: Levi Dettwyler on April 07, 2013, 08:33:05 PM

Because our perception is based on the firing of neurons, which slows down if time slows down.  In other words, if I pressed a button on a big machine that slowed down time for everyone on the earth, no one would notice any immediate effects.  Nothing would appear to be slower or faster.

But the big machine we are talking about slows down time only for movements perpendicular to the line PN, for this is the line of the field gradient, or in other words, for movements concentric with the circles of latitude. Neurons fire in every direction, so I don't really see a the problem.

Now, I'm not a neuroscientist, but it would seem that randomly screwing with the timing of half the impulses in your brain would really screw with someone's thinking, especially when they turn their heads.  The brain is a very complicated organ, with each "connection" essentially establishing some dependency where time is a component.

Now, I'm not a neuroscientist, but it would seem that randomly screwing with the timing of half the impulses in your brain would really screw with someone's thinking

Well, given the known history of mankind, do you think we are sane?

I dunno; I was able to type this comment while constantly turning my head to the right and left, so I don't think my brain is getting that scrambled.

I dunno; I was able to type this comment while constantly turning my head to the right and left, so I don't think my brain is getting that scrambled.

If you wanna get clear in your mind you gotta stop whirling your head around. You must sit still, control your firing neurons - it's called meditation. I see now how my theory even explains the effectiveness of such practises.

Haha, you're onto something there!

No one else?  I'll give them a few more days before abandoning the forum.  Based on what I've found so far, there does not exist a flat earth representation of the continents that would allow for such perfect commercial air travel, the universal accelerator should have killed us all by now (if it is indeed a "stream"), NASA regularly fakes going to space by going to space, and Elon Musk is part of the conspiracy.  What an interesting several weeks.

Yeah I'm leaving soon as well, this place is pathetic.

I mean dilation, sorry. What I say is: my "aetherial field" (maybe you find a better term?) causes time to slow down. That makes every distance seem shorter for every object P, that is moved along this distance. But, and this is one of the peculiarities of that field, it works only perpendicular to the gradient (the direction of the greatest rate of increase of the field's potential). As a result it effects only the vector of a movement, that is perpendicular to the line PN, where N is the north pole. Movements along this line remain unaffected. To remind you, that has nothing to do with the speed of light, only with the potential of the AF. 
Supposed my description is intelligible -wouldn't that cause the illusion of roundness?

Time slows down the more you go south? So what will happen when a a traveler who goes to south calls his family who lives up north? Are you suggesting that the voice of the traveler will be slower than usual (lower pitch) from the perspective of his family and the other way around, the voice of his family is faster than usual (higher pitch) from his point of view?

I am sorry but that doesn't happen.

EDIT: it's even worse when the traveler decides to use video call, his family seems to move like in a fast forward video whereas, he seems to move in slow motion

Quote from: Homesick Martian on April 07, 2013, 07:35:57 PM

I mean dilation, sorry. What I say is: my "aetherial field" (maybe you find a better term?) causes time to slow down. That makes every distance seem shorter for every object P, that is moved along this distance. But, and this is one of the peculiarities of that field, it works only perpendicular to the gradient (the direction of the greatest rate of increase of the field's potential). As a result it effects only the vector of a movement, that is perpendicular to the line PN, where N is the north pole. Movements along this line remain unaffected. To remind you, that has nothing to do with the speed of light, only with the potential of the AF. 
Supposed my description is intelligible -wouldn't that cause the illusion of roundness?

Time slows down the more you go south? So what will happen when a a traveler who goes to south calls his family who lives up north? Are you suggesting that the voice of the traveler will be slower than usual (lower pitch) from the perspective of his family and the other way around, the voice of his family is faster than usual (higher pitch) from his point of view?

I am sorry but that doesn't happen.

EDIT: it's even worse when the traveler decides to use video call, his family seems to move like in a fast forward video whereas, he seems to move in slow motion

I suggested nothing like that. All I suggest is that any signal needs less time for any distance that is effected by the AF. It gets faster, not slower. If we allow the seconds to expand, it is the same as to say the meters do contract.

BTW I have the feeling that I derail the thread all the time, for the threadstarter would like to hear the arguments of some genuine FEs, which I'm not, I'm a Non-Earther.