Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth

  • 93 Replies
  • 25229 Views
?

muggsybogues1

  • 591
  • +0/-0
Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« on: January 11, 2013, 07:15:08 AM »
According to the RE models, the earth performs a dizzying dance, spinning and twirling around the sun as the moon goes around it and the apparent difference between night and day take place as the sun goes around it. This non-intuitive view, however, is made even more difficult in Joshua 10:13 which states:

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

So, if the FE theory is assumed to be true, not only was the earth simply stopped on its axis--the moon was also held in its place. This, of course, means that they would have to be "held" in place by some mystical force (I'm assuming the RE-ers will say "God") if you believe in the dark inverse energy known as gravity. Otherwise, the moon would go crashing into the earth followed by the Earth crashing into the Sun. So after being held in place for "almost" 24 hours, the spinning had to be started again and the wobble restored and both Earth and the moon "thrown" at the property to restore the earth to normal. Were it not so, cataclysmic changes would take place, which would have certainly been recorded.

Is it not simpler (and infinitely more intuitive) to explain using the FE model of the sun and moon being fixed in the canopy and the canopy simply stopping for a brief period of time? Presumably this periodically takes place throughout history on some unknown timescale.

Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 07:25:25 AM »
First of all, I'm a Christian.

Secondly, this is a really week argument, fraught with logical inconsistencies that shows a lack of understanding of both physics and the nature of God.

I'll start with the nature of God. Our understanding of God necessitates that he can step into our physical world and change/do anything he wants. This is commonly known as omnipotence. While we don't always understand how/why/what God does, the truth is that God must have superseded the laws of nature to make the sun and moon stand still. Just because he did doesn't mean the earth is flat.

In fact, I'm kind of tired of the people who say the Bible supports a flat earth. It does not.

Finally, its pretty dubious to take a passage of scripture that most people on this site would discount anyway and say it proves a flat earth. You can't even prove that this story happened. You may, like me, believe that it did, but that wont get you anywhere in science.


*

Tintagel

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 190
  • +0/-0
  • Full of Tinier Tintagels!
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 07:28:43 AM »
I appreciate the effort, but speaking personally, quotes from the Bible aren't proof of anything except for the insatiable gullibility of the human animal and its need to believe in something greater than itself.  You may find a few here who agree with you, but my beliefs are based upon reason and observation, not religious text.

?

muggsybogues1

  • 591
  • +0/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 07:59:52 AM »

Our understanding of God necessitates that he can step into our physical world and change/do anything he wants. This is commonly known as omnipotence. While we don't always understand how/why/what God does, the truth is that God must have superseded the laws of nature to make the sun and moon stand still. Just because he did doesn't mean the earth is flat.

This is the same RE concept of magical energy that spawned the creation of the myth of gravity. Because you can't explain something using simple observation, you invent a force which you can neither see nor understand to explain it.

?

muggsybogues1

  • 591
  • +0/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 08:01:11 AM »
my beliefs are based upon reason and observation.
Mine too, which makes the idea of RE impossible in my mind.

Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 08:42:32 AM »
my beliefs are based upon reason and observation.
Mine too, which makes the idea of RE impossible in my mind.

So far, you have yet to demonstrate this. You seem to be very conflicted in your mind. What reason and observation do you employ that causes you to believe the earth is not round?

?

muggsybogues1

  • 591
  • +0/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 09:06:11 AM »
All you have to do is go to a desert or the middle of the ocean to see that the horizon stretches out in front of you and is a flat line from horizon to horizon.

*

Pongo

  • 6752
  • +1/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 10:02:21 AM »
While I'm an atheist who does believe in a flat-earth, the point stands that if you think the "Bible" is the inerrant word of God then you must either believe the world is flat or have some serious reconciliation between yourself and what you consider truths.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 03:59:42 PM by Pongo »

?

muggsybogues1

  • 591
  • +0/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 11:10:24 AM »
Read my post. I was referring to the Bible as a historical document, not as a spiritual one. In fact, my understanding and my explanation was a purely secular one based on the obvious truth of our flat earth. Spiritual or not, I don't see how you should be forced to accept an obvious lie because it was uttered by some guy whose main qualification is to be the world's foremost expert in Latin.

*

Foxy

  • 3312
  • +0/-0
  • but it did happen
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 11:15:28 AM »
All you have to do is go to a desert or the middle of the ocean to see that the horizon stretches out in front of you and is a flat line from horizon to horizon.

And you expect to see some intense curvature? The Earth isn't just a few miles in diameter, so of course it appears flat from our perspective.

Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 11:21:13 AM »
While I'm an atheist who does believe in a flat-earth, the point stands that if you think the "Bible" is the inerrant word of God then you must either believe the world is flat or have some serious reconciliation between yourself with what you consider truths.

Care to actually back this up? I actually have advanced degrees in Biblical Studies and you are quite woefully ignorant on what the Bible says if you believe what you just said.

?

muggsybogues1

  • 591
  • +0/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 11:25:32 AM »
Of course the Earth appears flat from our perspective.

My point exactly. I do not know why RE is unwilling to accept such an obvious reality.

*

Foxy

  • 3312
  • +0/-0
  • but it did happen
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 11:38:41 AM »
Of course the Earth appears flat from our perspective.

My point exactly. I do not know why RE is unwilling to accept such an obvious reality.

There is a reason the bold word was included in the sentence. Don't try to twist what I'm saying. Thanks for ignoring the first part of the very sentence you quoted. That was not "your point exactly". I mean, did you not even read my post?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 11:40:31 AM by Berstram Jones »

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-114
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 11:56:36 AM »
Of course the Earth appears flat from our perspective.

My point exactly. I do not know why RE is unwilling to accept such an obvious reality.

Yet things are not always as they appear.  I do not know why FE'ers are unwilling to accept such an obvious reality.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Pongo

  • 6752
  • +1/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 03:40:32 PM »
While I'm an atheist who does believe in a flat-earth, the point stands that if you think the "Bible" is the inerrant word of God then you must either believe the world is flat or have some serious reconciliation between yourself with what you consider truths.

Care to actually back this up? I actually have advanced degrees in Biblical Studies and you are quite woefully ignorant on what the Bible says if you believe what you just said.

How exactly would you like me to back it up? Show you the verses that were quite clearly written by someone who thought the world was flat? I'm more than sure that you've already seen them and are chomping at the bit to regurgitate your rehearsed rhetoric. Well, I've seen the round-earth-Christian apologetics too and I am unimpressed.  In fact, I find it quite emberessing for all of humanity that an adult could take up such an indefensible stand point and delude themselves to the point of actually believing it. 

While the belligerent nomads that wrote most of the book had the shape of the earth right, this fact was not divinely gleaned. 

*

Spherically Round

  • 4
  • +0/-0
  • Flat Earth theory is all retarded nonsense.
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2013, 11:14:34 PM »
Because you can't explain something using simple observation, you invent a force which you can neither see nor understand to explain it.

Sounds a lot like religion if you ask me. And gravity isn't just a theory any more, there have been thousands of studies by physicists since Newton that have proved beyond reasonable doubt of the existence of gravity. It is NOT an "invented force", it has been PROVEN by observation and theory.
Flat earth theory? Not sure if trolling, or just stupid.

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6758
  • +0/-0
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2013, 08:11:52 AM »
Because you can't explain something using simple observation, you invent a force which you can neither see nor understand to explain it.

Sounds a lot like religion if you ask me. And gravity isn't just a theory any more, there have been thousands of studies by physicists since Newton that have proved beyond reasonable doubt of the existence of gravity. It is NOT an "invented force", it has been PROVEN by observation and theory.

No. There's been one experiment in history which has been capable of determining the difference between an acceleration and gravity, and it did not take static nor permeation into account. Also, your personal text is mean. I'm not going to pretend I'm offended, but why must you attempt to put us down in addition to being angry and noobish?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 08:14:05 AM by Tausami »

?

NotStupid

  • 3
  • +0/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 05:14:20 PM »
How is this debate still going on? Get an education.
" class="bbc_ftp new_win" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
How we know the earth is round, explained in a way a child could understand! How do I know? I am a child. You guys are idiots. Get an education.

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 26966
  • +0/-0
  • I'm the boss.
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2013, 06:34:37 PM »
How is this debate still going on? Get an education.
" class="bbc_ftp new_win" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
How we know the earth is round, explained in a way a child could understand! How do I know? I am a child. You guys are idiots. Get an education.

Please stop spamming the same link.  It doesn't help that you're the twentieth person to do so in the last couple weeks.  There is a thread on this video, please seek it out for clarification.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6758
  • +0/-0
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2013, 07:34:20 PM »
How is this debate still going on? Get an education.
" class="bbc_ftp new_win" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
How we know the earth is round, explained in a way a child could understand! How do I know? I am a child. You guys are idiots. Get an education.

Thank you for making this post. You literally changed my life today.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7272
  • +7/-27
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2013, 02:23:00 AM »
Absolute geological proofs that the Earth MUST have stopped from its diurnal rotation around its own axis in the past (official chronology),  a fact impossible to explain in the RE theory:

Velikovsky Earth in Upheaval

It is only in the context of the FE theory that the facts described in this work could have taken place.

Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2013, 08:04:10 AM »
While I'm an atheist who does believe in a flat-earth, the point stands that if you think the "Bible" is the inerrant word of God then you must either believe the world is flat or have some serious reconciliation between yourself with what you consider truths.

Care to actually back this up? I actually have advanced degrees in Biblical Studies and you are quite woefully ignorant on what the Bible says if you believe what you just said.

How exactly would you like me to back it up? Show you the verses that were quite clearly written by someone who thought the world was flat? I'm more than sure that you've already seen them and are chomping at the bit to regurgitate your rehearsed rhetoric. Well, I've seen the round-earth-Christian apologetics too and I am unimpressed.  In fact, I find it quite emberessing for all of humanity that an adult could take up such an indefensible stand point and delude themselves to the point of actually believing it. 

While the belligerent nomads that wrote most of the book had the shape of the earth right, this fact was not divinely gleaned.

Oh that's funny. Here's your argument: "I know I'm right! You want me to prove it to you? Oh, I already know how you're going to refute my arguments, so no (!) I won't prove it. After all, I'm right!"

Pretty typical of the FE.

*

Pongo

  • 6752
  • +1/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2013, 05:08:15 PM »
That's not remotely what I said and if you truly think it is then I fear that you may be suffering from a rather severe case of confirmation bias.

Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2013, 09:36:26 AM »
Quote

I'm more than sure that you've already seen them and are chomping at the bit to regurgitate your rehearsed rhetoric. Well, I've seen the round-earth-Christian apologetics too and I am unimpressed.

Oh that's funny. Here's your argument: "I know I'm right! You want me to prove it to you? Oh, I already know how you're going to refute my arguments, so no (!) I won't prove it. After all, I'm right!"

Pretty typical of the FE.

*

Pongo

  • 6752
  • +1/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 12:00:34 PM »
Let try and get this back on track.  What do you want from me?

Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 12:53:59 PM »
You maintain the Bible supports a FE. I insist that the Bible is not a scientific text book and does not care for the shape of the Earth since Earth's shape plays no part in seeking the God of the Bible.

I ask that you simply provide evidence that the Bible supports a FE. You already have guessed that I know the refutations to the evidence you will present. I'm curious why you would still insist the Bible supports a FE having already studied the answers to your evidence.

I think, this is still on topic because the OP uses Biblical evidence to attempt to prove a FE. Am I correct?

*

Pongo

  • 6752
  • +1/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 01:04:18 PM »
Yeah, discussing whether a book supports a flat earth is on topic especially since we would be refuting or supporting the OP's claims. 

I was hoping that you would save me the trouble of looking up the quotes and just jump into the refutations.  I guess I'll find them, I'm busy now but I should have some time this weekend.  I'll be using King James.

?

muggsybogues1

  • 591
  • +0/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 01:05:55 PM »
The event described was a worldwide phenomenon recorded by many cultures. Stop trying to create a straw man out of the fact that I gave the Bible reference.

*

kevinagain

  • 527
  • +0/-0
Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 07:36:06 PM »
here's one:

Rev_7:1  And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

technically, the flatness can only be inferred from the existence of corners.

could be metaphorical, of course, but there's no indication of that in the text itself.
true wisdom is always concise

Re: Historical Proof of the Impossibility of Round Earth
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2013, 11:15:26 AM »
Most Bible scholars view all of The Revelation of John to be metaphorical. The entire text is wrought with similes, allegory and metaphor. Consider Rev 8:10ff as an example:

"10 Then the third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from the sky, burning like a torch. It fell on one-third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11 The name of the star was Bitterness. It made one-third of the water bitter, and many people died from drinking the bitter water. 12 Then the fourth angel blew his trumpet, and one-third of the sun was struck, and one-third of the moon, and one-third of the stars, and they became dark. And one-third of the day was dark, and also one-third of the night."

And Pongo, I would caution you against using the KJV. It was translated in the 1600's and verbage does not always reflect how we use the words today. Apart from that, it is an accurate translation, but we have made many strides in translation and language since those days.