Flight time between Australia and Argentina

Time moves at the same speed on the ground, but at higher altitudes toward the south one travels at a different speed. There is no reason to have a watch which moves slower while in the air (although such a watch, properly adjusted,  WOULD tell you exactly when time was changing on the ground) because nobody is going to spend that much time in the air at once. Also, as you mentioned, there are time zone changes as well, so it's practical just to worry about what the time is on the ground once you are back on the ground not while still in the air.

Time moves at the same speed on the ground, but at higher altitudes toward the south one travels at a different speed. There is no reason to have a watch which moves slower while in the air (although such a watch, properly adjusted,  WOULD tell you exactly when time was changing on the ground) because nobody is going to spend that much time in the air at once. Also, as you mentioned, there are time zone changes as well, so it's practical just to worry about what the time is on the ground once you are back on the ground not while still in the air.

So what you're saying is that if someone travels between two locations in the south the person flying will experience time at a different rate than while they're in the air? That while they experience X hours passing it'll actually be some multiple of X?

When you go to buy plane tickets, what's referenced as the travel time is the difference in time between starting point and destination, corrected for time zone. I think if this alleged time were vastly different than what the passenger observes it'll be routinely noticed. For instance, anyone who plans to watch movies to take up the time, for a really obvious example.

It is routinely noticed. This thread started because someone mentioned it.

No, the thread was started to point out the flawed flat earth model.  he experiments done with time dilation usually have a time frame of months, and a time offset measured in nanoseconds after the experiment is completed.  These are done by space agencies though so probably can't quote them here.

It is routinely noticed. This thread started because someone mentioned it.

Can you link to an independent third party verification of this?

Quote from: Dino on October 05, 2012, 10:56:12 AM

It is routinely noticed. This thread started because someone mentioned it.

Can you link to an independent third party verification of this?

If you want to believe it takes 30 hours to fly from Sydney to Buenos Aires, go ahead. I don't think it does.

No, the thread was started to point out the flawed flat earth model.  he experiments done with time dilation usually have a time frame of months, and a time offset measured in nanoseconds after the experiment is completed.  These are done by space agencies though so probably can't quote them here.

Yes, the space agencies try to explain away the phenomenon by acknowledging it and then making it a minor issue. It's a typical: "Nothing to see here, people." tactic by the authorities.

Quote from: randomism on October 05, 2012, 12:01:53 PM

Quote from: Dino on October 05, 2012, 10:56:12 AM

It is routinely noticed. This thread started because someone mentioned it.

Can you link to an independent third party verification of this?

If you want to believe it takes 30 hours to fly from Sydney to Buenos Aires, go ahead. I don't think it does.

According to Quantas, it takes about 13 hours to fly non-stop from Sydney to Santiago on a 747-400.

Quote from: Dino on October 05, 2012, 12:37:09 PM

Quote from: randomism on October 05, 2012, 12:01:53 PM

Quote from: Dino on October 05, 2012, 10:56:12 AM

It is routinely noticed. This thread started because someone mentioned it.

Can you link to an independent third party verification of this?

If you want to believe it takes 30 hours to fly from Sydney to Buenos Aires, go ahead. I don't think it does.

According to Quantas, it takes about 13 hours to fly non-stop from Sydney to Santiago on a 747-400.

I thought it was something like that. So clearly something is going on in the skies of the south that allows air-travel to go "faster" than one would expect by just looking at the map.

I'm having a difficult time following your line of reasoning.

The flight tracking sites list the time the clocks will read in the airport when you launch, and the times the clocks will read in the airport when you land. The travel time is nothing more than the difference between the first departure time and final landing time, but corrected for difference in time zones. And it's these travel times that people are finding at odds with any presented flat earth maps. The perception one has of time while in the air doesn't even enter the equation - the listed times can be verified entirely by people observing the planes take off and land.

"And it's these travel times that people are finding at odds with any presented flat earth maps."

The times are at odds with the maps if you assume the plane is travelling approx 550mph RELATIVE TO THE GROUND, because in that case you would have a, say, 30 hour flight from Sydney to Santiago if you assumed by the map our distance is about 16,500 miles. But we know FROM THE TIMETABLES that a plane can travel from Sydney to Santiago in about 13 hours so it must in fact be travelling close to 1,300mph relative to the ground. But a commercial plane can't fly much faster than 600mph. The answer is that Time is passing at a slower rate on the ground than it is in the air, which is why one must readjust their watches to the minute upon landing and not merely adjust to the hour of the new time zone. 

Okay, I understand how you came to this conclusion now.

However, I must insist that it'd be far more convincing if you offered independent evidence, instead of merely saying that this must be the case because otherwise the flat earth maps don't work. In particular, I don't see how a flight that takes 13 hours in ground time but causes the passengers to feel like 30 hours have passed could ever possibly escape notice. This is no minor discrepancy.

@Dino:  Or you could just use the round earth model, realize that you can fly the opposite way and it's about 7092 mile flight and at about 550mph  equals 12.9 hours thus forgoing the strange anomaly of increasing time over two fold for the voyagers on the plane that nobody seems to realize happens.

You fail to understand the difference between measuring time and experiencing the flow of time.

You fail to understand the difference between measuring time and synchonization of time measurements accurate enough to validate varients in the flow of time that people experience. 

It has been repeatedly prooven that relative time slows down as you approach the speed of light.  We've gotten sufficiently accurate enough with time measurement to be able to synchronize two clocks...fly one about a bit and compare them when they come back to show the one that was moved lost time.  A ridiculously small amount...but enough to measure.

The sci-fi side of this is that it is technically possible to build a "time machine" to go forward only in time by making a space ship that could fly close to the speed of light.  Zip out, zip back and significantly more time would have passed for everyone else than what had passed for you.

Of course...the minor problem of space debree of size of a peanut utterly destroying your ship when flying at such speeds might be a hinderance...

But I digress...you will never find a 2d map of earth that will successfully explain actual travel times...and no, NASA does not own all airliners so they are not flying the jets in some intentional messed up way to fake longer or shorter flights.  The airlines litterally can not afford the extra jet fuel such efforts would require.

Time moves at the same speed on the ground, but at higher altitudes toward the south one travels at a different speed. There is no reason to have a watch which moves slower while in the air (although such a watch, properly adjusted,  WOULD tell you exactly when time was changing on the ground) because nobody is going to spend that much time in the air at once. Also, as you mentioned, there are time zone changes as well, so it's practical just to worry about what the time is on the ground once you are back on the ground not while still in the air.

This is called making up bullshit to justify the flat earth map distances. If I syncronise my watch with someone in Australia, then fly to South America,  call my friend upon landing, I bet our watches will show the same time.

Try it! The Zetetic method is about experimenting not speculating.

It has been Dino,

Hundreds of thousands of times.  Anyone who's flown any of these routes and not had to adjust their watches, computer clocks, etc. etc. that they carried with them for anything beyond time zone change proves that the time flux passing through those areas is insignificantly different than the time passing at their starting and ending locations.

Thus the passage of time for the people traveling the airplane can not have a significant difference on the total time passage experienced by said travelers.

It has been Dino,

Hundreds of thousands of times.  Anyone who's flown any of these routes and not had to adjust their watches, computer clocks, etc. etc.

How do you know they didn't have to change their watches? Sounds like a matter of blind faith for you that this didn't occur.

Quote from: Solmyre on October 07, 2012, 08:46:13 AM

It has been Dino,

Hundreds of thousands of times.  Anyone who's flown any of these routes and not had to adjust their watches, computer clocks, etc. etc.

How do you know they didn't have to change their watches? Sounds like a matter of blind faith for you that this didn't occur.

It sounds like it would be a matter of common knowledge if it did occur.

Right after we prove that watches don't have to be adjusted we're going to prove that the Twilight books are impossible. Disproving fantasies is just so much fun.

Quote from: Dino on October 07, 2012, 09:36:59 AM

Quote from: Solmyre on October 07, 2012, 08:46:13 AM

It has been Dino,

Hundreds of thousands of times.  Anyone who's flown any of these routes and not had to adjust their watches, computer clocks, etc. etc.

How do you know they didn't have to change their watches? Sounds like a matter of blind faith for you that this didn't occur.

It sounds like it would be a matter of common knowledge if it did occur.

I agree that it seems like it would be common knowledge among travelers in those parts, and who's to say it isn't? When we say "common knowledge" we usually, in fact, just mean local knowledge. Is the resurrection of Christ common knowledge in Bangladesh?

Well...having personally traveled quite a bit...and working for a company where many of us have to travel extensively...

I can personally say not I nor anyone else has had to adjust our watches to compensate for anything beyond time zones when traveling, additionally our computers have not lost synchronization with the core network back home regardless of our given position elsewhere (which would be a huge problem if emails suddenly took longer to reach you among other things).

The great thing about "common knowledge" in 2012 is that you can just set the bar to that which can easily be found online. If you can't find easily google something then it isn't common knowledge.

The implications of time moving at a substantially different rate at a certain altitude in the southern hemisphere are both fantastic and astounding. It'd be pretty routine for wealthy people to fly around on their private jets in order to gain more time to work on something that's due tomorrow. This plot device would probably become a cliche on TV shows.

I suspect psychological as well as cultural factors prevent many individuals from stepping forward and reporting that they've experienced something different than their world view tells them they should have on these flights.

There's plenty of psychological literature showing that people are extremely reluctant to report very unusual experiences to others for fear of castigation.

I take it you don't have enough money to buy the plane tickets to find out yourself? What would it cost, a couple thousand dollars at most if you time it well? If I were in your position I'm pretty sure I'd try it just out of curiosity. I'd even consider giving you the money to do this myself, if I thought you'd perform the experiment honestly and without preconceived bias...

If I tested it and reported back, then what? The deniers would just keep denying, wouldn't they?

Even if I were wrong about this, which I don't believe I am, it would only throw into doubt the map and the measurements of relativity. The shape of the Earth is my interest not flight times. The Earth has been shown to be flat by direct experiment. If speculations regarding other phenomena turn out to be inexact, fundamental Truth has not changed.

I reason deductively from first principles. We know that the Earth is flat due to direct evidence. The way scientists reason is from speculative theory to indirect confirmation of that speculative theory.
True, flat earthers may speculate and theorize and hypothesize from time to time, but the difference between zetetic flat earthers and scientists is that we reason a priori not inductively, speciously and stupidly.

Nonsense Dino,

Concrete evidence is concrete evidence. 

I believe you owe it to yourself to prove you own convictions one way or another.  Denial is not a valid argument regardless of what you believe proper scientific approach to be.

If something disproves your maps directly then the maps as they are currently envisioned are inherently flawed.  Since the maps are directly correlated to assumptions about the shape of the earth, then the flight times or driving time from one location to the other should in fact hold very high interest to you as it is a direct and viceral manner that you yourself can measure.

Still waiting on this...