Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?

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IDontbelive

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Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« on: January 27, 2012, 05:58:17 AM »
How come you guys believe that the earth is flat?

I am really confused....... ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

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Rushy

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2012, 06:00:34 AM »
The simplest answer would be... because it is flat.

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Sean

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2012, 06:05:28 AM »
How come you believe the Earth is round. Clearly, it is flat.
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iwanttobelieve

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2012, 06:25:27 AM »
doesn't matter if you look out your window, look  at the horizon over a large water, climb the tallest buliding, see the horizon in a plane, or even send up your own balloon to the edge of space with a camera and you will see that there is no sphere, just a straight horizon and a giant "lit" disc.

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Mizuki

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2012, 06:36:48 AM »
How come you guys believe that the earth is flat?

I am really confused....... ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Hello IDontbelive, welcome to the forum.

For myself, i am uncertain about the  physical dimensions of our planet earth. But if you look with an open mind, you will find that there really isn't a great deal of evidence that the earth is a globe.

Best wishes, Miuzuki x
"Earth is a maximal sphere in a cyclical space and its surface therefore a total plane, the equator plane of the Cosmos. The (total) plane, as well as the straight line and space as a whole, is flat, without curvature yet closed, running back on itself."

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hoppy

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2012, 09:57:52 AM »
How come you guys believe that the earth is flat?

I am really confused....... ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
I
Hello IDontbelive, welcome to the forum.

For myself, i am uncertain about the  physical dimensions of our planet earth. But if you look with an open mind, you will find that there really isn't a great deal of evidence that the earth is a globe.

Best wishes, Miuzuki x




Perhaps a slip of the tongue as the result of indoctrination, you indicatedthe earth is a planet. which denotes the earth as a sphere. I don't know if you really believe that or not.








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zarg

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2012, 10:54:12 AM »
Perhaps a slip of the tongue as the result of indoctrination, you indicatedthe earth is a planet. which denotes the earth as a sphere. I don't know if you really believe that or not.

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
  • the moon: the earth's natural satellite that shines by the sun's reflected light, revolves about the earth from west to east in about 291⁄2 days with reference to the sun or about 271⁄3 days with reference to the stars, and has a diameter of 2160 miles (3475 kilometers), a mean distance from the earth of about 238,900 miles (384,400 kilometers), and a mass about one eightieth that of the earth
  • the sun: the luminous celestial body around which the earth and other planets revolve, from which they receive heat and light, which is composed mainly of hydrogen and helium, and which has a mean distance from earth of about 93,000,000 miles (150,000,000 kilometers), a linear diameter of 864,000 miles (1,390,000 kilometers), and a mass 332,000 times greater than earth
Yet you call the moon "the moon" and the sun "the sun".

Since you guys have already redefined the words sun and moon -- along with spotlight, aether, dark energy, infinite, north, south, east, west, and conclusive -- why not just make up a new meaning for planet as well?
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Sean

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2012, 08:14:53 PM »
"The moon" and "the sun" are those things in the sky which we know as the moon and the sun. Just as the "earth" is the thing we live on. They're names. A planet, however doesn't refer to a specific object but to a type of object in space.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2012, 08:29:16 PM »
The Earth looks flat.  And I've never seen solid evidence to suggest otherwise.  Even Mars and the moon appear to be flat; while further study myst be done, I think there's sufficient reason to consider the possibility that flatness is the natural state of large objects, and that even the sun is flat.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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PlanetEarth

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2012, 08:47:09 PM »
doesn't matter if you look out your window, look  at the horizon over a large water, climb the tallest buliding, see the horizon in a plane, or even send up your own balloon to the edge of space with a camera and you will see that there is no sphere, just a straight horizon and a giant "lit" disc.

You have to be at least 60,000 feet above the surface to see the curvature.
The Earth's circumference is 25,000 miles, so even one degree is still 60 miles. You would need to be at least 60,000 feet above the surface, and most passenger/commercial planes fly around half of that. How can you expect to see noticable curvature at sea level when these huge scales are involved? Unless you are in a military plane or spacecraft, it is simply too big.

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zarg

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2012, 08:47:49 PM »
"The moon" and "the sun" are those things in the sky which we know as the moon and the sun. Just as the "earth" is the thing we live on. They're names. A planet, however doesn't refer to a specific object but to a type of object in space.

No, the names are "Luna" and "Sol".  "The sun" and "the moon" are not names. You could turn them into names by capitalizing Sun and Moon, but why would you do this? It would be like naming your cat Puppy. They are denoting a specific sun and a specific moon, where sun and moon are defined as things which you do not believe exist.
  • planet (1) : any of the large bodies that revolve around the sun in the solar system (2) : a similar body associated with another star
  • sun : a self-luminous heavenly body; star.
  • star : a self-luminous gaseous spheroidal celestial body of great mass which produces energy by means of nuclear fusion reactions
  • moon : satellite; specifically : a natural satellite of a planet
You have no problem regularly using the words sun, star, and moon to mean things contrary to their definitions, but suddenly planet is blasphemous. Why not just be misleading by disregarding the real definition, like you usually do?

P.S.  Earth often goes by the name Planet Earth, too.

P.P.S.  If you actually name your cat Puppy, I'm totally cool with that. No hard feelings.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 08:49:49 PM by zarg »
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[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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PlanetEarth

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 08:52:05 PM »
The Earth looks flat.  And I've never seen solid evidence to suggest otherwise.  Even Mars and the moon appear to be flat; while further study myst be done, I think there's sufficient reason to consider the possibility that flatness is the natural state of large objects, and that even the sun is flat.


What would the Moon and Mars have to look like to appear flat? Obviously they look flat (Mars at least) because we're looking at them from one angle.
The Moon however is clearly round, if you look at it through a telescope you can see that the craters only appear circular towards the center, and they appear distorted and stretched towards the edges. Wouldn't this suggest that you are looking at those craters from the side?
Wouldn't the shadow on the moon also suggest that it is round? How would the Sun cast a round shadow on the Moon unless the Moons surface was curved?

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PlanetEarth

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 08:54:55 PM »
"The moon" and "the sun" are those things in the sky which we know as the moon and the sun. Just as the "earth" is the thing we live on. They're names. A planet, however doesn't refer to a specific object but to a type of object in space.

No, the names are "Luna" and "Sol".  "The sun" and "the moon" are not names. You could turn them into names by capitalizing Sun and Moon, but why would you do this? It would be like naming your cat Puppy. They are denoting a specific sun and a specific moon, where sun and moon are defined as things which you do not believe exist.
  • planet (1) : any of the large bodies that revolve around the sun in the solar system (2) : a similar body associated with another star
  • sun : a self-luminous heavenly body; star.
  • star : a self-luminous gaseous spheroidal celestial body of great mass which produces energy by means of nuclear fusion reactions
  • moon : satellite; specifically : a natural satellite of a planet
You have no problem regularly using the words sun, star, and moon to mean things contrary to their definitions, but suddenly planet is blasphemous. Why not just be misleading by disregarding the real definition, like you usually do?

P.S.  Earth often goes by the name Planet Earth, too.

P.P.S.  If you actually name your cat Puppy, I'm totally cool with that. No hard feelings.


"Sun" and "Moon" are names. Luna and Sol are the latin, scientific names, Sun and Moon are the English names. If you want to say that sun and moon are not names, you would also have to say that Earth is not a name because the latin/scientific name is Terra. The moon was named "Moon" because, at the time, we didn't know of other moons.

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zarg

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 08:58:09 PM »
I think there's sufficient reason to consider the possibility that flatness is the natural state of large objects

your mother is so flat
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[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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zarg

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 09:12:30 PM »
"Sun" and "Moon" are names. Luna and Sol are the latin, scientific names, Sun and Moon are the English names. If you want to say that sun and moon are not names, you would also have to say that Earth is not a name because the latin/scientific name is Terra. The moon was named "Moon" because, at the time, we didn't know of other moons.

I believe I already addressed this when I mentioned that they would be names if you capitalized them. We are talking about current definitions, not ancient ones: if we were still using the original definition of planet, then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place because originally planet simply meant something that wanders through space (which the FE does); it had nothing to do with being spherical.
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2012, 09:42:28 PM »
The Earth looks flat.  And I've never seen solid evidence to suggest otherwise.  Even Mars and the moon appear to be flat; while further study myst be done, I think there's sufficient reason to consider the possibility that flatness is the natural state of large objects, and that even the sun is flat.


What would the Moon and Mars have to look like to appear flat? Obviously they look flat (Mars at least) because we're looking at them from one angle.
The Moon however is clearly round, if you look at it through a telescope you can see that the craters only appear circular towards the center, and they appear distorted and stretched towards the edges. Wouldn't this suggest that you are looking at those craters from the side?
Wouldn't the shadow on the moon also suggest that it is round? How would the Sun cast a round shadow on the Moon unless the Moons surface was curved?

You misunderstand me, but I can see where I was a little vague in what I was getting across so that's okay.  Mars and the moon both appear round from Earth; any lunatic can see that (even one who's in that state because he's been exposed to the moon's rays).

It's the images of the moon and Mars up close that strongly suggests that these bodies are actually flat.  If we are to take NASA at face value, and assume there is no Conspiracy to hide the shape of the Earth, then we have photographic evidence that these bodies are actually flat.  They just appear round when seen from very far away, through the medium of space.

This is, of course, consistent with what we observe of the Earth, as well; from very far away, the Earth's surface appears to curve, until you get so far away that it appears to curve back onto itself, into what appears for all the world to be a ball.

So as you can see, the evidence is quite compelling that the Earth isn't the only flat body we observe in the universe, and we can safely extrapolate that the universe is likely lousy with them.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Archibald

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2012, 01:00:50 AM »
I think there's sufficient reason to consider the possibility that flatness is the natural state of large objects

your mother is so flat

Please refrain from such ridiculous and obscene comments on these most excellent fora,  and if you do happen to want to make a joke, at least make it somewhat humorous please.
For whatever reason you allow Clocktower to derail any thread Archibald posts in.

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PlanetEarth

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2012, 05:52:28 PM »
The Earth looks flat.  And I've never seen solid evidence to suggest otherwise.  Even Mars and the moon appear to be flat; while further study myst be done, I think there's sufficient reason to consider the possibility that flatness is the natural state of large objects, and that even the sun is flat.


What would the Moon and Mars have to look like to appear flat? Obviously they look flat (Mars at least) because we're looking at them from one angle.
The Moon however is clearly round, if you look at it through a telescope you can see that the craters only appear circular towards the center, and they appear distorted and stretched towards the edges. Wouldn't this suggest that you are looking at those craters from the side?
Wouldn't the shadow on the moon also suggest that it is round? How would the Sun cast a round shadow on the Moon unless the Moons surface was curved?

You misunderstand me, but I can see where I was a little vague in what I was getting across so that's okay.  Mars and the moon both appear round from Earth; any lunatic can see that (even one who's in that state because he's been exposed to the moon's rays).

It's the images of the moon and Mars up close that strongly suggests that these bodies are actually flat.  If we are to take NASA at face value, and assume there is no Conspiracy to hide the shape of the Earth, then we have photographic evidence that these bodies are actually flat.  They just appear round when seen from very far away, through the medium of space.

This is, of course, consistent with what we observe of the Earth, as well; from very far away, the Earth's surface appears to curve, until you get so far away that it appears to curve back onto itself, into what appears for all the world to be a ball.

So as you can see, the evidence is quite compelling that the Earth isn't the only flat body we observe in the universe, and we can safely extrapolate that the universe is likely lousy with them.

But when you look at them up close, they do not appear flat. If you take a telescope in your backyard, and point it at the Moon, the craters become more eliptical and curved around an axis as you get closer to the edge.
What could make such a crater? Or how can vacuum alter light to make it "seem" round? How does Flat Earth Theory explain the phases of the Moon and Venus? How does it explain the rotation of Jupiter's cloud belts and the red spot?

Also, when you get farther away from a planet, it "appears to curve back onto itself" because you are viewing the edges from a sharper angle. You can see it's features warping around the center.
If you view a flat surface, nearly every point should have the same angle, or the warped features would be parallel rather than curved and perpendicular to the center. Mars may still appear flat, because it doesn't have many prominent figures for reference.
But even it was flat, how would it look any different (from this distance) being a sphere?
You can replicate the effect with a ball and a small camera. Up close, it would appear flat, but as you got farther away, the camera would be able to see the edges from sharper angles and see that it is spherical, not because of a trick of light, but because of simple geometry.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2012, 12:00:52 AM »
But when you look at them up close, they do not appear flat.

The moon looks flat up close.
Mars looks flat up close.

Quote
Also, when you get farther away from a planet, it "appears to curve back onto itself" because you are viewing the edges from a sharper angle. You can see it's features warping around the center.

That's certainly one opinion, but I obviously don't take much stock in it in and of itself, as it contradicts my direct sensorial evidence that the Earth is flat.
 
Quote
If you view a flat surface, nearly every point should have the same angle, or the warped features would be parallel rather than curved and perpendicular to the center.

This is where the apparent bending of light through the medium of space comes in.

Quote
But even it was flat, how would it look any different (from this distance) being a sphere?
You can replicate the effect with a ball and a small camera. Up close, it would appear flat, but as you got farther away, the camera would be able to see the edges from sharper angles and see that it is spherical, not because of a trick of light, but because of simple geometry.

Irrelevant.  Just because it's plausible that the Earth might be a sphere doesn't mean it is.  It's plausible that God caused the Big Bang too, but there's a well-known lack of sufficient evidence that prevents this from being the conventional scientific view.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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ClockTower

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2012, 12:16:39 AM »
This is where the apparent bending of light through the medium of space comes in.
Awesome claim, bro'. Do tell us more about the medium of space and how it apparently bends light. Here I thought Maxwell told us that light always travels in a straight line in a consistent medium. The Nobel Prize awaits your brilliant reply!
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2012, 12:24:11 AM »
This is where the apparent bending of light through the medium of space comes in.
Awesome claim, bro'. Do tell us more about the medium of space and how it apparently bends light. Here I thought Maxwell told us that light always travels in a straight line in a consistent medium. The Nobel Prize awaits your brilliant reply!

Well, Maxwell was wrong.  Obviously.  Probably because he was generalizing.  And I'd love to claim my Nobel Prize, but unfortunately the scientific community isn't enlightened enough to accept "The Earth is flat" as evidence of anything.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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ClockTower

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2012, 12:28:43 AM »
This is where the apparent bending of light through the medium of space comes in.
Awesome claim, bro'. Do tell us more about the medium of space and how it apparently bends light. Here I thought Maxwell told us that light always travels in a straight line in a consistent medium. The Nobel Prize awaits your brilliant reply!

Well, Maxwell was wrong.  Obviously.  Probably because he was generalizing.  And I'd love to claim my Nobel Prize, but unfortunately the scientific community isn't enlightened enough to accept "The Earth is flat" as evidence of anything.
Oh, I see. It's the ole "Since I said it, it must be true" argument. Good to know.

I did forget that you're smarter than Maxwell.

I'm sure that the community would embrace any reputable evidence you have to correct Maxwell's equations. Heck, if you document even one case of a result not predicted by current Science, you'll put FET on the fast track.

Of course, I do have to remember that you're merely an FE devil's advocate. You don't even believe what you're posting, right?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2012, 12:37:15 AM »
This is where the apparent bending of light through the medium of space comes in.
Awesome claim, bro'. Do tell us more about the medium of space and how it apparently bends light. Here I thought Maxwell told us that light always travels in a straight line in a consistent medium. The Nobel Prize awaits your brilliant reply!

Well, Maxwell was wrong.  Obviously.  Probably because he was generalizing.  And I'd love to claim my Nobel Prize, but unfortunately the scientific community isn't enlightened enough to accept "The Earth is flat" as evidence of anything.
Oh, I see. It's the ole "Since I said it, it must be true" argument. Good to know.

I did forget that you're smarter than Maxwell.

I'm sure that the community would embrace any reputable evidence you have to correct Maxwell's equations. Heck, if you document even one case of a result not predicted by current Science, you'll put FET on the fast track.

Of course, I do have to remember that you're merely an FE devil's advocate. You don't even believe what you're posting, right?

I absolutely do.  I have had an epiphany recently; it has become clear to me that I wouldn't be here every day, arguing for a FE, if I didn't truly believe the arguments I've been putting forth to be sensible.  And if my arguments are sensible, the Earth must be flat.  So I have become a firm FE believer!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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ClockTower

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2012, 12:42:14 AM »
I absolutely do.  I have had an epiphany recently; it has become clear to me that I wouldn't be here every day, arguing for a FE, if I didn't truly believe the arguments I've been putting forth to be sensible.  And if my arguments are sensible, the Earth must be flat.  So I have become a firm FE believer!
That's exactly what I'd expect an outed FEDA to say.

And how about that evidence that you say is obvious that the medium of space appears to bend light? Is that simple challenge too much for you?

Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2012, 12:48:08 AM »
And how about that evidence that you say is obvious that the medium of space appears to bend light? Is that simple challenge too much for you?

Not at all.  In fact, it's already been addressed.  Try reading the thread again, but this time with comprehension in mind, and see if you are able to accomplish it.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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ClockTower

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2012, 12:50:28 AM »
And how about that evidence that you say is obvious that the medium of space appears to bend light? Is that simple challenge too much for you?

Not at all.  In fact, it's already been addressed.  Try reading the thread again, but this time with comprehension in mind, and see if you are able to accomplish it.
Done. No support for your claim anywhere in the thread. Perhaps you might want to reexamine your outlandish claim. Remember you spoke about the medium of space.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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markjo

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2012, 08:10:00 AM »
But when you look at them up close, they do not appear flat.

The moon looks flat up close.
Mars looks flat up close.

Only if you believe those NASA supplied pictures to true and accurate.
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ClockTower

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2012, 08:49:52 AM »
But when you look at them up close, they do not appear flat.

The moon looks flat up close.
Mars looks flat up close.

Only if you believe those NASA supplied pictures to true and accurate.
And only if you forget that all photos are flat and not indicative of the higher dimensions of their subject. Reference: Abbot's Flatland Chapter 1, Section 6.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2012, 09:30:08 AM »
Only if you believe those NASA supplied pictures to true and accurate.

I've already addressed this as well.

And only if you forget that all photos are flat and not indicative of the higher dimensions of their subject. Reference: Abbot's Flatland Chapter 1, Section 6.

I'll check out the reference later (I have Flatland on my Kindle), but I have to ask: if photos aren't indicative of an object's true shape, why are they constantly thrown around here as evidence of a round Earth?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Why do you guys believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2012, 09:42:14 AM »
but I have to ask: if photos aren't indicative of an object's true shape, why are they constantly thrown around here as evidence of a round Earth?

Because, while they do not show the actual surface (3D texture), they do show the 2D shape of an object, like the Earth.  And, they show the 2D profile of an object.